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Thread: Tired of Kill4Me's unsolicited retypings of me behind my back - so discuss here.

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    I can not believe a person would start a thread like this. Consider kill4me's retypings a compliment. Duh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    The smileys don't exactly make one emo though. Chalk it up to bad habit

    exactly. The real in-depth, but highly self-aware "emo" are Sexual types. Check out that Sx/so Hussey SEE dude I posted to see how animated and passionate that comes across.
    You are only using strictly positive emoticons out of Social habit ...kinda mechanically ... to smooth your way with the many others.
    ...Am I supposed to come across animated and passionate with 1D Fe? Rhetorical question eheh

    As for mechanical smiling, that's also not something that must be explained by using the social instinct, I don't really see any direct causal link there I'm sorry


    Quote Originally Posted by Deer Woman View Post
    I see SLE over LSI.

    "You are only using strictly positive emoticons out of Social habit ...kinda mechanically ... to smooth your way with the many others." - Amber
    I would actually say this is more likely to be Fe HA than Fi Role (not replying directly to you, Amber, but I do like this way of putting it). Fe in general is more about the outward expression of emotions whereas Fi is the direct psychological bond between two people. Perhaps you use smileys to cover up Fi PoLR? I tend to see people over-use HA (mechanically) to cover up PoLR.
    Yeah, just as I said above to @Amber it doesn't have to be the instincts.

    Although you respond well to other's initiative, you take a lot of initiative on your own. You ask a lot of follow up questions and naturally pursue people. I mean that in a good way. You don't let relations fall apart, just because the other person isn't making enough contact on their own. I'm not sure where McBain sees autism...completely off base to me.
    Anyway I read the tone totally different in my head.
    Lol @McBain was funny with that yeah, he shouldn't try psychology as a career

    As for relations.. what I'm good at is making some initiative. Maintenance however I can't take up on my own. Does that still sound extratim to you?

    Speaking of which. I see the follow up questions as more of an excuse to play with Ti creative. More food to create new frameworks out of or tinker the one you already have. Although LSI has high dimensional Ti and can alter systems too, I would think LSI is more likely to "create a system" and back it up staunchly (due to Ne PoLR and a strong, but subtle Si).
    I relate to tinkering with and to backing up the existing system. Not really into just creating new frameworks all the time. Tinkering to some extent is fine depending on how finalized my understanding is. If I have a solid enough system then I'd have an issue with changing it too much. There are those rare moments when I do suddenly see a better one though.

    Compare LSI to their look-a-like ESI who stands strong in what they feel is right, sometimes regardless of consequences (part of why a lot of people admire them). You are consistently open to the feedback of others, even though you might verbally spar with them before accepting conclusions.
    Hahah how often do you see me accepting conclusions of others Tho it can happen sometimes if there's Ni or Fe information that I can use

    When Myst asks or responds to questions, she does so in a very thorough way. Doesn't matter if it is related to her type, someone else's or something else altogether. The key phrase here appears to be "gaining an understanding". Works both ways, even if you switch the words, however Myst seems more likely to deliver explanations rather than seek explanations (aka Ti HA not likely).
    True, that

    Likes to deliver (to hear) long, detailed, creative explanations, (from) excellent teacher or instructor, "I will explain (listen) for as long as they will listen (explain), until I'm 100% sure that everyone (I) understood everything." Asking him (others) a question sometimes you will be listening (explaining) to an answer for hours. Sometimes he simply looks for someone to speak (learn) about his understanding of something (escaping such a situation can be difficult, unless one tells him so directly). Something similar can be observed with objective logic, Te, as a second function, but here the emphasis is not on providing facts but rather on others gaining an understanding. For this reason, at times his explanations are simplified and delivered as if for little children. Such person is constantly looking for an audience (teacher) with questions (ideas/answers), but he explains material not in terms of knowledge, but from the standpoint of how he understands it, that is more lucidly and meticulously. He may gravitate towards a field where something has not been studied and understood before, may start exploring unknown for him spheres in which he has no qualifications, since this will allows him to develop and expand the scope of "understanding", which is very tempting for Ti as creative function.
    Actually on here I mainly ask for concrete examples because I need them for gaining an understanding. The abstract Ne conceptualizations I'd rather avoid.


    Quote Originally Posted by left 4 dead View Post
    I can not believe a person would start a thread like this. Consider kill4me's retypings a compliment. Duh!
    Lol you mean compliment in terms of attention.. ahahh yes I can see it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    After some extended time speaking with you @Myst, I think what might be throwing a lot of people off in your typing and hence perhaps what might be attributed to this misunderstanding with kill4me (granted, he's not a particularly easy person to deal with) is that you could be on the Autism spectrum. I think that it's true what you said before, you have difficulty reading between the lines -- especially when it comes to people. Your constant need for clarification on things (i.e. asking a lot of questions to the point of unintentionally annoying the other person or perhaps the multiple PMs) might be further evidence of this. You're also frank, straightforward, and pretty damned honest (making the assumption that others ought to be this way also) in a way that could be in line with such an observation. This is mainly a hunch and I could be totally off in this speculation. I am not a psychologist and haven't actually met you so don't take my word as bond.

    Edit: I suspect @Kill4Me is right and she's probably ILE. She reminds me far more of Johannes Bloem and Ineffable than mbd for the same reasons he articulated particularly her constant badgering
    I see your edit only now. Now just because you couldn't take a few harsh words from me, it doesn't equal "constant badgering" lol.

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    Se in ego imo >> check out my thread on Worst Sex in the World.

    But she acts on Ti most of the time ... SLE-Ti2 or smth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Harsh words? No, you're just annoying like an ILE who never gets clued in that the other person wants you to shut the fuck up and go away.
    Ugh, you are categorizing this wrong again. Me wanting to understand exactly what was up isn't type specific in this way. Nope.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    Se in ego imo >> check out my thread on Worst Sex in the World.

    But she acts on Ti most of the time ... SLE-Ti2 or smth.
    SLE-Ti1000 hmmm

  6. #126
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    I have talked to Myst the past couple of days and my impression is that she is LSI and the more I think about it. she is probably balanced between Ti and Se. I have a lot if experience interacting with 2 other LSI. One is Ti and the other is Se...My interactions with Myst most closely resemble my interactions with an LSI-Ti friend. I think a lot of the asking for clarification has more to do with English being her second language.

    I imagine she does not come off the same irl. She is wanting to make sure she is not misunderstanding what others are saying on here since a lot of people here also have English as a second language. This would be a logical thing for her to do. I can see how my mom did the same when I was younger because she did not learn English until she was way into her 30s. I had to be a bridge for my mom in conversations. Anyway, I am not sure on enneagram from our conversations so far.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Jesus Christ are you dense and take everything literally
    You responding to my posts here didn't exactly imply that you wanted to stop all kinds of communication at the same time. No don't expect to mind read, you need to be direct. You've seen before that I'm OK with not taking things literally but when you are conveying two different messages at the same time, I don't wish to play mind reader.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I have talked to Myst the past couple of days and my impression is that she is LSI and the more I think about it. she is probably balanced between Ti and Se. I have a lot if experience interacting with 2 other LSI. One is Ti and the other is Se...My interactions with Myst most closely resemble my interactions with an LSI-Ti friend. I think a lot of the asking for clarification has more to do with English being her second language.

    I imagine she does not come off the same irl. She is wanting to make sure she is not misunderstanding what others are saying on here since a lot of people here also have English as a second language. This would be a logical thing for her to do. I can see how my mom did the same when I was younger because she did not learn English until she was way into her 30s. I had to be a bridge for my mom in conversations. Anyway, I am not sure on enneagram from our conversations so far.
    Thanks for the input. Yeah IRL is quite different. I did learn English pretty late in life (early 20's) tho' even talking in English is more smooth IRL with more context (body language blahblah). LSI-Ti, hmm, I'm pretty sure on Se sub but I do switch into more focus on Ti sometimes
    Last edited by Myst; 05-08-2015 at 05:28 PM.

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    This is more Ne. Not Ti. Ti in SLE doesn't equal rumination but contains Se.

    [*----] ryoka14 : its just too much, its too real, you can see the complexity and beauty in everything so to speak. i know that sounds reeally hippie or whatever but thats what you feel or what i feel - and its a pretty common theme for people who do take those kinds of drugs
    [----] Myst : aixel I guess you could say I got conditioned to think by sciencey stuff and I recently wondered about this but I decided I disagreed about that. I picked that way of thinking because it innately made sense to me. I couldve picked religion. or whatever else. but I picked this because it made sense to me, fell in line with my way of seeing reality.
    [----] Myst : aixel if you can decide for yourself what way of thinking you subscribe to then thats not conditioning or brainwashing, is how I see it
    [----] Myst : now social expectations and norms are a different topic again
    [---] Myst : I'm sure I'm conditioned there somewhat but I dont see the real problem in that.. not strongly conditioned with it and it's not really relevant in terms of seeing objective reality or not, to me anyway
    [---] aixelsyd : i'm thinking on a less conscious level, like how things are interpreted before you even realize it
    [-----] Myst : what sort of things, aixel?
    [-----] Myst : inumbra: well you dont always (=not constantly) have to go for a goal directly related to survival. so then you can take your time focusing on everything without being selective if you want.
    This would be true in all the ego blocks...that the leading function infuses itself into the creative.

    I also bolded the parts where Myst says "I got conditioned to think..." "I'm sure I"m conditioned there somewhat..."

    A SLE would never frame the past to themselves in that way.

    -------------

    Myst thought dm1323 sounded like BnD..

    [Today 09:07 AM] Myst : loll
    [Today 09:17 AM] Myst : lol not to what mu4 said, btw
    [Today 09:18 AM] Uniden : who is dm1323
    [Today 09:19 AM] Myst : bnd under different nick?
    [Today 09:19 AM] Myst : sounded like him lol
    have a look at the posts dm1323 wrote prior to that:

    [Today 08:57 AM] dm1323 : hkkmr many bans in defense of a female forum poster's dignity
    [Today 08:57 AM] dm1323 : it's a lost art
    [Today 08:57 AM] dm1323 : I think it should be appreciated
    [Today 08:57 AM] dm1323 : <3
    No SLE would conclude Dm sounded like BnD.

    Ne makes the novel connections.

    -------

    Myst:

    But I suggest you treat VI with a healthy dose of skepticism You will not find a whole lot of consistency in VI typings by different people.
    if an SLE rejected VI it would be on the ground that the qualia of one's personality cannot be grasped from a picture alone....

    and less on whether there was consistency between people who did VI typings....consistency amongst different people wouldn't even register to a SLE.

    she's clearly not a Se-dom.

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    She´s clearly not an Alpha Infantile. She likes hard fucking around, not Theorizing while being pampered and having her house decorated.

    Aggressor Ego in Beta with Irrationality to top it all.

    Well obviously these are not going to be long term relationships that I'm going to talk about here. :-p

    So, there was this guy with whom it started off alright; then when we changed position and he wanted to put on a condom he suddenly just lost the hard on and couldn't get it back... he later claimed he got all sorts of worries about HIV but I think that was not the real reason. (Now don't criticize for not using the condom right away.. slightly got carried away heh.) I was willing to meet him once more and so we tried again & it didn't even get that far. I still had quite some fun, he had none. :/ Still it was frustrating to me too because I do like a good fuck. No I would not try it again with him, I give two chances by default. Well the only circumstance under which I would try it again would be if we just ran into each other somewhere but I wouldn't want to setup a whole meeting for this reason and I don't think he'd dare to try again anyway.

    Was an LII-Ti I don't think I helped him relax much... I tried my best but... I'm seeing a pattern here about me vs Se PoLRs lol though the EII I knew was a bit better at it. He'd also get jolted out of his trance in this strange way but it was sometimes salvageable and even if not, it was still very good fucking overall with him. That's kinda the right word to use here, yeah. So we did meet quite a few times with this one, easily past the limit of two tries.

    There was also an EIE that was so into me that he got way too tensed up so had trouble "booting up" heh. But when he finally did, he was able to finish just fine.. just very quickly, lol. He was cute :/ He hit the limit of two tries too :/ I didn't want anything more from him but not because of his sexual failures. I'm really pretty tolerant of that sort of stuff by default - when a guy gets nervous or something - but these were just flings, not real relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    This is more Ne. Not Ti. Ti in SLE doesn't equal rumination but contains Se.
    Hell your Ti is pretty well deep into rumination, you posted about this same bit of me chatting before. You are ruminating on it.

    & None of what you posted is Ne. Ask a real ILE to explain to you what Ne is.


    I also bolded the parts where Myst says "I got conditioned to think..." "I'm sure I"m conditioned there somewhat..."
    You don't even have the attention span to read the whole thing? I actually said in there that I wasn't conditioned because I decided for myself. As for cultural things, who isn't conditioned whatsoever by culture? Rhetorical question.


    No SLE would conclude Dm sounded like BnD.

    Ne makes the novel connections.
    You are making a lot of novel connections about me, did you notice yet? Lol..


    if an SLE rejected VI it would be on the ground that the qualia of one's personality cannot be grasped from a picture alone....

    and less on whether there was consistency between people who did VI typings....consistency amongst different people wouldn't even register to a SLE.

    she's clearly not a Se-dom.
    See you are making some slight bit of sense finally. That's Ti>Se over Se>Ti. Making comparisons in Ti style.



    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    She´s clearly not an Alpha Infantile. She likes hard fucking around, not Theorizing while being pampered and having her house decorated.
    Ahem... Yep you hit the nail on the head.

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    Alright Myst, here is how it goes;
    As far as the information processing goes causal determinist is undeniably evident (a priori as opposed to a posteriori). it can be seen from the types of questions posed and the dynamics of interactions.
    the subject is fixed on compartmentalizing and categorization. the thought pattern is "developing outwards", it's deductive and simplification of thought structure is very well present (resultant consequence is derived theorems, concretization of the +ti structural logic).
    Convergent thinking, subject is focused on obtaining one universal solution to one problem. se creative as strong implementation of the program. volitional qualities rank high on the scale of priorities (purposefulness, power to make things happen.)
    creative function (se) is utilised highly reactively (strong focus on correction of faulty rationalization perceived as a challenge, encroachment on personal position seen as imminent repudiation of a conversational and ideational assailant) implying the contact, terminal and (connecting) type of personality.
    contact -manifests as need for interpersonal direct clarification as opposed to maintaining distance which implies ambiversion and potentially mistaking the subject for an E(p/j) temp.
    terminal- focus is unwavering, constant and regulatory as opposed to initiative that's has short range focus and the transitive ability of moving on eventhough the subject matter isnt finalized or concretely concluded upon in other words, terminal/initiating or rational/irrational.
    the subject, by this analysis, fits the dominant subtype (te, se, fe fxns strenghtening).

    people belonging to the same sociotype differ greatly i dont see much success in typing via association or vibe.
    cognitive analysis and information theory is where the main focus should be applied.
    Last edited by miss BabyDoll; 04-30-2015 at 10:36 PM. Reason: grammar and spelling
    ipsa scientia potestas est-adaequatio intellectus et rei

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    Quote Originally Posted by miss BabyDoll View Post
    Alright Myst, here is how it goes;
    As far as the information processing goes causal determinist is undeniably evident (a priori as opposed to a posteriori). it can be seen from the types of questions posed and the dynamics of interactions.
    the subject is fixed on compartmentalizing and categorization. the thought patern is "developing outwards" it's deductive and simplification of thought structure is very well present (resultant consequence is derived theorems, concretization of the +ti structural logic).
    Convergent thinking, subject is focused on obtaining one universal solution to one problem. se creative as strong implementation of the program. volitional qualities rank high on the scale of priorities (purposefulness, power to make things happen.)
    creative function (se) is utilised highly reactively (strong focus on correction of faulty rationalization perceived as a challenge, encroachment on personal position seen as imminent repudiation of an conversational and ideational assailant) implying the contact, terminal and (connecting) type of personality.
    contact -manifests as need for interpersonal direct clarification as opposed to maintaining distance which implies ambiversion and potentially mistaking the subject for an E(p/j) temp.
    terminal- focus is unwavering, constant and regulatory as opposed to initiative that's has short range focus and the transitive ability of moving on eventho the subject matters isnt finalized or concretely concluded upon in other words, terminal/initiating or rationa/irrational.
    the subject by this analysis fits the dominant subtype (te, se, fe fxns strenghtening).

    people belonging to the same sociotype differ greatly i dont see much success in typing via association or vibe.
    cognitive analysis and information theory is where the main focus should be applied.
    the voice of reason speaks!

    Do me, do me!! (maybe not in myst's thread though)
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by miss BabyDoll View Post
    Alright Myst, here is how it goes;
    As far as the information processing goes causal determinist is undeniably evident (a priori as opposed to a posteriori). it can be seen from the types of questions posed and the dynamics of interactions.
    the subject is fixed on compartmentalizing and categorization. the thought patern is "developing outwards" it's deductive and simplification of thought structure is very well present (resultant consequence is derived theorems, concretization of the +ti structural logic).
    Convergent thinking, subject is focused on obtaining one universal solution to one problem. se creative as strong implementation of the program. volitional qualities rank high on the scale of priorities (purposefulness, power to make things happen.)
    creative function (se) is utilised highly reactively (strong focus on correction of faulty rationalization perceived as a challenge, encroachment on personal position seen as imminent repudiation of an conversational and ideational assailant) implying the contact, terminal and (connecting) type of personality.
    contact -manifests as need for interpersonal direct clarification as opposed to maintaining distance which implies ambiversion and potentially mistaking the subject for an E(p/j) temp.
    terminal- focus is unwavering, constant and regulatory as opposed to initiative that's has short range focus and the transitive ability of moving on eventho the subject matters isnt finalized or concretely concluded upon in other words, terminal/initiating or rationa/irrational.
    the subject by this analysis fits the dominant subtype (te, se, fe fxns strenghtening).

    people belonging to the same sociotype differ greatly i dont see much success in typing via association or vibe.
    cognitive analysis and information theory is where the main focus should be applied.
    Right so you agree I'm LSI with DCNH D sub

    I like your analysis, pretty good. And yeah, as for your last two lines, I have the same message to anyone trying to type by vibe or whatever..

    I do want to emphasize that you got it very much correct about me having that DCNH terminal focus and Se creative. Etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Right so you agree I'm LSI with DCNH D sub

    I like your analysis, pretty good. And yeah, as for your last two lines, I have the same message to anyone trying to type by vibe or whatever..

    I do want to emphasize that you got it very much correct about me having that DCNH terminal focus and Se creative. Etc
    I've followed some of your self-typing odyssey here and there.

    I agree that a type will express in a variety of ways, or ... be pinned on a variety of people, sometimes imperfectly.

    Simply from online interaction, you seem pretty blunt, and though you're focused on logical matters, conversation swerves from one point to another rather than resting on a single resolvable point.

    I associate this pattern with SLE, and not with LSI. I associate it with EPs generally, it's like they're always feinting and dodging laterally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    I've followed some of your self-typing odyssey here and there.

    I agree that a type will express in a variety of ways, or ... be pinned on a variety of people, sometimes imperfectly.

    Simply from online interaction, you seem pretty blunt, and though you're focused on logical matters, conversation swerves from one point to another rather than resting on a single resolvable point.

    I associate this pattern with SLE, and not with LSI. I associate it with EPs generally, it's like they're always feinting and dodging laterally.
    Thanks for the input. Do the EPs have any goal with these kinds of "dodgy" conversations?

    Did you notice me liking closure.
    Last edited by Myst; 05-01-2015 at 02:56 AM.

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    How do you know that what you associate with Beta and with Se isn't related to hysteria, ie you scored highly on a test suggesting HPD.

    IE the emotional swings as Beta, the sometimes (or more) pushyness, perceiving things as challenging, not being able to let things go (associated with 'getting things done'.

    Just incase you wonder - this is not an attack. I really don't see any way that will categorically give you one type over another, and I hope you see this yourself. So why the thread? For attention? Why see other peoples reasons? You must know yourself you will never get a definitive answer here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Thanks for the input. Do the EPs have any goal with these kinds of "dodgy" conversations?

    Did you notice me liking closure.
    You do appear to want closure; I think people generally want it, but they pursue it differently and believe it's achieved according to different criteria.

    As to the first question, I don't know how to answer that. In any given conversation, a person could have one or multiple goals, could be conscious or unconscious of them, could state them plainly or leave them unsaid. I don't always know what people's conversational goals are; that's for them to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    How do you know that what you associate with Beta and with Se isn't related to hysteria, ie you scored highly on a test suggesting HPD.
    Lol I indicated in that thread that that result didn't quite fit me.


    IE the emotional swings as Beta, the sometimes (or more) pushyness, perceiving things as challenging, not being able to let things go (associated with 'getting things done'.

    Just incase you wonder - this is not an attack. I really don't see any way that will categorically give you one type over another, and I hope you see this yourself. So why the thread? For attention? Why see other peoples reasons? You must know yourself you will never get a definitive answer here.
    I didn't wonder, no.

    I don't really like to let go of things & do like to get things done as well, yes.

    I already picked LSI for myself categorically, otherwise it would not be in my profile. So yes I have seen a way that gave me my type.

    Why the thread? I explained in the very first few posts of this thread. I will not repeat those, read them for yourself.

    And... I am getting bored by these Ne HA types asking these pointless questions. You aren't the first, heh. And yes, I find them annoying even if I know it's not an attack or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol I indicated in that thread that that result didn't quite fit me.




    I didn't wonder, no.

    I don't really like to let go of things & do like to get things done as well, yes.

    I already picked LSI for myself categorically, otherwise it would not be in my profile. So yes I have seen a way that gave me my type.

    Why the thread? I explained in the very first few posts of this thread. I will not repeat those, read them for yourself.

    And... I am getting bored by these Ne HA types asking these pointless questions. You aren't the first, heh.
    ILE seems a good fit for you though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLDEN View Post
    You do appear to want closure; I think people generally want it, but they pursue it differently and believe it's achieved according to different criteria.

    As to the first question, I don't know how to answer that. In any given conversation, a person could have one or multiple goals, could be conscious or unconscious of them, could state them plainly or leave them unsaid. I don't always know what people's conversational goals are; that's for them to say.
    Actually, many people don't want it that much. As for not being able to give an answer on the goals stuff, no problem. I still find the EPs jungian Irrational compared to myself when talking to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    ILE seems a good fit for you though.
    Nope. You have no idea what Ne is especially in ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Nope. You have no idea what Ne is especially in ego.
    I can only imagine you are equally clueless since you've been considering ILE yourself

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I can only imagine you are equally clueless since you've been considering ILE yourself
    I'm not considering ILE. I type LSI and that's it.

    Where the hell did you even get this idea?! (That I'd be considering ILE.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Actually, many people don't want it that much.
    You're right, some people have a low need for closure or dislike it.

    I suppose the people I understand and enjoy being around do notice a need for it at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I'm not considering ILE. I type LSI and that's it.

    Where the hell did you even get this idea?! (That I'd be considering ILE.)
    Why do you type as LSI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Why do you type as LSI?
    LSI is the type that works out for me in terms of Model A. Each of the 8 functions. SLE wasn't bad but something was slightly off.

    Also cognitive style is Ti C-D just fine. The DCNH D sub also fits very well with it. And intertype relations are finally starting to make sense, it made less sense when typing as SLE.

    I don't put much stock in Reinin except for the basic ones; Static, Merry, Decisive work for me very surely. That leaves SLE or LSI and I can argue for the reinins that are LSI > SLE e.g. Emotivist, Obstinate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    LSI is the type that works out for me in terms of Model A. Each of the 8 functions. SLE wasn't bad but something was slightly off.

    Also cognitive style is Ti C-D just fine. The DCNH D sub also fits very well with it. And intertype relations are finally starting to make sense, it made less sense when typing as SLE.

    I don't put much stock in Reinin but Static, Merry, Decisive work for me very surely. That leaves SLE or LSI and I can argue for the reinins that are LSI > SLE e.g. Emotivist, Obstinate.
    OK thank you for explaining. BTW cognitive style is sort of like the new reinin - everyone who sounded intelligent was clambering to use it as *the* way of typing, now people are starting to place less importance on using them.

    Cog Style is interesting to me, but all I can find is some Russian translations of varying quality. Apart from the difficulties deciphering a translation, reading them is really just like reading another description, such as a function description, it is open to interpretation, and I do not yet know why they were created. Were they just something Gulenko 'observed' or what? And how can you not read them all and see parts that you relate to in each one? It is to me like reading a type description, which is essentially what it is, right? How do you overcome the differences in picking a cog style vs picking a type description vs picking any description considering they are covering millions of people? How do you eliminate the forer effect since you already decided you were BETA?

    DCNH is really just another sub type theory, right? As for intertype relations, how are they making sense? Interesting as you are saying that socionics really does work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    OK thank you for explaining. BTW cognitive style is sort of like the new reinin - everyone who sounded intelligent was clambering to use it as *the* way of typing, now people are starting to place less importance on using them.

    Cog Style is interesting to me, but all I can find is some Russian translations of varying quality. Apart from the difficulties deciphering a translation, reading them is really just like reading another description, such as a function description, it is open to interpretation, and I do not yet know why they were created. Were they just something Gulenko 'observed' or what? And how can you not read them all and see parts that you relate to in each one? It is to me like reading a type description, which is essentially what it is, right? How do you overcome the differences in picking a cog style vs picking a type description vs picking any description considering they are covering millions of people? How do you eliminate the forer effect since you already decided you were BETA?

    DCNH is really just another sub type theory, right? As for intertype relations, how are they making sense? Interesting as you are saying that socionics really does work.
    I just go by the "basic" (not at all basic lol) article http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...yles%28wiki%29

    I find the descriptions of the styles specific enough to be able to differentiate. It was instantly clear to me that I was not any of the dynamic styles. Had to observe my own thinking to see if I was defaulting to C-D or H-P from the static styles.

    I have no idea where Gulenko got these from. No you don't always stick to one style but the idea is there's a default one. Of course the theory isn't proven to automatically work for everyone.

    I don't think these are the same as type descriptions as those are about concrete behaviours and the cog styles are about ways of thinking. As for finding my cog style, I just introspected really as I said above.

    Forer: I didn't assume that just because I related to specific type(s) in Beta quadra, I must have a specific cog style.

    DCNH: yep. It's more like a few concrete motivations and directly relatable behaviours to me, just kinda an add-on.

    How intertype relations work.. well as described but that's really only true if considering the core of each kind of relation and I only find the following ones clear: Duality, Activity, Identity, Superego, Conflictor, and somewhat Supervision, the rest I'm still observing.

    I didn't say socionics must automatically work for everyone, all I'm willing to state is that it does seem to describe something real.

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    @Myst, thanks for the link. Gulenko took two reinin dichotomies, static/dynamic, positive/negative and some other one he made up. He threw in some 'observations', briefly mentioned Kant. Combined the three dichotomies to suggest how people think.

    So I would suggest one must first ask themself, do they agree with positive/negative and static/dynamic as dichotomies as they appear to have been described by Reinin. Can you confidently pick out yourself from static/dynamic and positive/negative from the dichotomy descriptions? If not then it's asking a lot for these cog styles to make sense.

    BTW also consider if he can describe how people think why isn't this in mainstream psychology? Is it funding, credibility, is it conspiracy to hold socionics back? What does common sense tell you?

    I can't rationally see how to use cog thinking as a major typing player and also my spider sense says it's wrong/dubious. I'd sure like to know how I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    @Myst, thanks for the link. Gulenko took two reinin dichotomies, static/dynamic, positive/negative and some other one he made up. He threw in some 'observations', briefly mentioned Kant. Combined the three dichotomies to suggest how people think.

    So I would suggest one must first ask themself, do they agree with positive/negative and static/dynamic as dichotomies as they appear to have been described by Reinin. Can you confidently pick out yourself from static/dynamic and positive/negative from the dichotomy descriptions? If not then it's asking a lot for these cog styles to make sense.

    BTW also consider if he can describe how people think why isn't this in mainstream psychology? Is it funding, credibility, is it conspiracy to hold socionics back? What does common sense tell you?

    I can't rationally see how to use cog thinking as a major typing player and also my spider sense says it's wrong/dubious. I'd sure like to know how I'm wrong.
    Well that's the thing, I find there's unexplained logical jumps from model A to cog styles yet it seems to work in my case which doesn't say a whole lot sure, that's not what determined my typing. Also, I can't tell if I'm positivist or negativist in general, only that I'm static. I don't think cog styles are meant to cover everything about how people think, though. It's totally alright if you find it dubious. I reserve judgment myself too.

    Don't know what holds socionics back from operationalizing things and make a falsifiable scientific theory out of it. It's true that to put the definitions into an operationalized form meaning you can concretely test them out in experiments, you will have to undertake a big task. But no, don't know why no one took it up yet. I hear Jack Oliver Aaron wants to do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Well that's the thing, I find there's unexplained logical jumps from model A to cog styles yet it seems to work in my case which doesn't say a whole lot sure, that's not what determined my typing. Also, I can't tell if I'm positivist or negativist in general, only that I'm static. I don't think cog styles are meant to cover everything about how people think, though. It's totally alright if you find it dubious. I reserve judgment myself too.

    Don't know what holds socionics back from operationalizing things and make a falsifiable scientific theory out of it. It's true that to put the definitions into an operationalized form meaning you can concretely test them out in experiments, you will have to undertake a big task. But no, don't know why no one took it up yet. I hear Jack Oliver Aaron wants to do it?
    I think cog styles is something to muse over if one has the time, and I think Gulenko has too much time on his hands

    With socionics imo it's better to stick to the basics and not get bogged down in such paperwork, I don't see anything good from building on foundations that weren't ready to take the strain.

    As for JOA, he is trying, he had or has a fundraiser site to get non socionics people to do a video and a questionnaire to determine their quadra, so I think he's relying on his ability to type quadra from the videos and seeing how that lines up with the questionnaire.

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    LSI is causal, SLE isn't. I can vouch LSI as well.

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    ^^ I would say it´s exactly the other way round. LSI is kinda strict and stubborn, SLE is more about fun and challenge (which can be pretty random once in a while).

    However I do see some sort of Positivism and Emotivism in Myst and I also wondered about LSI. That could derive from her being Ennea-Positive triad rather than Reinin though. She seems super-spontaneous online ...I don't know how she deals with "serious matters" irl though. Also there's lots of Fe at play (way more than in your classic LSI) which she produces and maneuvers herself. A better fit for Fe HA. However I don't really spot much Holographic-Panoramic and most of all Negativism ... in the sense of operating well with contrasts rather than mere comparisons that highlight similarities. She actually tends to do the latter.

    Nyways SLE - huge Ti > LSI - Se (C in DCHN, D would mean stronger Te-Fe, which I don't really see) > ILE-Ti > EII-Fi.
    Last edited by Amber; 05-01-2015 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Right so you agree I'm LSI with DCNH D sub

    I like your analysis, pretty good. And yeah, as for your last two lines, I have the same message to anyone trying to type by vibe or whatever..

    I do want to emphasize that you got it very much correct about me having that DCNH terminal focus and Se creative. Etc
    From our interactions I would say the descriptions below probably fit your personality. As I mentioned to you before, LSI can be polarising personalities in groups. They can be rigid and stubborn but they can also be very playful and spontaneous, in the right situation, even though there are times when my friend is being playful but people are so used to him being critical, (when discussing concepts and how they apply in the real world) that they miss the humor. I admit his humor is pretty subtle, at times, (delivered in a monotone voice) but he is also witty so it can easily pass over some people's heads. I can't count how many times I came to his defense and had to explain the "joke" to someone. :/

    My mom can be polarizing in my own family. My friend who is LSI-Ti has a way of polarizing people that is very fascinating from my perspective. Sometimes he will put so much effort into dissecting people's arguments that he inadvertently alienates people, which is not his intention, by coming off too serious and rigid. He really likes people and wants to be included but he doesn't come off as warm as some might like, at first . My mom on the other hand seems to lack some warmth as well but she can turn it on and off depending on the situation. She smiles more at strangers and acquaintances than she does with people she is close to. I have no reason to doubt your socionics self type and any issues I might have with our interactions would probably be due to language which I keep in mind when we chat. I do not see you as an intuitive or ethical base type so if I were to consider anything other than logical it would be sensing.

    1. Introverted Logic

    LSIs have a strong command of how various systems, structures, and hierarchies around them work, and always have a clear idea of how to implement them and improve them. LSIs quickly and easily determine what is correct and incorrect according to the systems they are familiar with.

    LSIs tend to logically analyze just about everything — even close relationships. LSIs view their partners and other members of their household as part of a system which should have a certain structure and order to it. Everything in this system should run like clockwork — scheduling, daily routines, responsibilities in the relationship, and household management.
    LSIs seek to attain an important role in an important system and to maintain and perfect it — often becoming the guardian or watchdog of the system.

    LSIs do not often think about the ethics of the systems they maintain. Instead, they discuss the ethics of other systems using the language and customs of their own systems as truth, and make value judgments accordingly.

    2. Extraverted Sensing

    LSIs prefer to apply their clear, logical thinking to forcibly affect how the real world is organized, rather than simply producing conjectures or thought exercises that have no material application. LSIs prefer to work with systems of "real" things — material assets, organizations, management, and production — and to perfect their structure and organization (). When they are certain they are right, LSIs can act decisively to enforce rules, and, if necessary, to punish violators, in order to protect the integrity of the system.

    LSIs handle high-pressure situations well and can maneuver skillfully around obstacles to achieve their goals. They cannot be intimidated easily by displays of force or aggression, but follow closely the balance of power and make sure they are in the best position.

    3. Introverted Ethics

    In the company of people the LSI smiles and acts like a good friend engaged in easy conversations, not without humor. They tend to mechanistically approach matters of wooing and relationship-building.

    The LSI often has trouble differentiating strong relationships from weak relationships. Often he will find himself unsure of his own opinion of the closeness of a relationship. This uncertainty manifests itself in the LSI as maintaining a generally friendly atmosphere with another person even if they are in conflict over a problem. Only when they are sure that they have been intentionally wronged by another will they publicly express negative sentiments toward that person.

    4. Extraverted Intuition

    LSIs do not tolerate ambiguity, and so dislike abstract ideals that are not directly based on their experience. They almost invariably focus on the worst-case scenario whenever they are forced to be in an ambiguous situation. If the situation is in the future, they will expend much effort to be 100% prepared. They also tend to be very suspicious of others' intentions, being highly aware that every person is ultimately motivated by self-interest.

    They set clearly achievable goals, which they often reach. Failure to meet these goals causes the LSI to express anger and lose control of his emotions in the form of a seemingly childish tantrum.

    The LSI has a clearly defined set of rules that he must adhere to. Only through learning can the LSI change, and grow to understand how something could work differently than the way he imagines it in the moment.
    Everything above I can apply in some way to them both but they put their own unique spin on it of course.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I think cog styles is something to muse over if one has the time, and I think Gulenko has too much time on his hands

    With socionics imo it's better to stick to the basics and not get bogged down in such paperwork, I don't see anything good from building on foundations that weren't ready to take the strain.

    As for JOA, he is trying, he had or has a fundraiser site to get non socionics people to do a video and a questionnaire to determine their quadra, so I think he's relying on his ability to type quadra from the videos and seeing how that lines up with the questionnaire.
    Gulenko types LII you know?

    I agree with the bolded.


    Quote Originally Posted by RedMarquee View Post
    LSI is causal, SLE isn't. I can vouch LSI as well.
    Thanks for the input & good point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amber View Post
    ^^ I would say it´s exactly the other way round. LSI is kinda strict and stubborn, SLE is more about fun and challenge (which can be pretty random once in a while).

    However I do see some sort of Positivism and Emotivism in Myst and I also wondered about LSI. That could derive from her being Ennea-Positive triad rather than Reinin though. She seems super-spontaneous online ...I don't know how she deals with "serious matters" irl though. Also there's lots of Fe at play (way more than in your classic LSI) which she produces and maneuvers herself. A better fit for Fe HA. However I don't really spot much Holographic-Panoramic and most of all Negativism ... in the sense of operating well with contrasts rather than mere comparisons that highlight similarities. She actually tends to do the latter.

    Nyways SLE - huge Ti > LSI - Se (C in DCHN, D would mean stronger Te-Fe, which I don't really see) > ILE-Ti > EII-Fi.
    I like fun and challenge & am stubborn too and yes even strict. I'm not really spontaneous irl unless I'm put in a *very good* mood. It's kinda funny sometimes how un-spontaneous I can be. But socially I can get very spontaneous like you see here. Se sub would have more Fe but again, irl I don't really do it... if in very good mood and with the right company then sure. I don't think Fe HA is this restricted. Interesting you noticed how I make comparisons, yes that's pretty spot on, I can also note differences when comparing, of course. But I'm more about that than just directly working with contrasts whatever that may mean.

    I'm definitely not C in DCNH, I'm too much terminal over initial so it must be D or N. Lol at EII-Fi, where the fuck does that come from.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    From our interactions I would say the descriptions below probably fit your personality. As I mentioned to you before, LSI can be polarising personalities in groups. They can be rigid and stubborn but they can also be very playful and spontaneous, in the right situation, even though there are times when my friend is being playful but people are so used to him being critical, (when discussing concepts and how they apply in the real world) that they miss the humor. I admit his humor is pretty subtle, at times, (delivered in a monotone voice) but he is also witty so it can easily pass over some people's heads. I can't count how many times I came to his defense and had to explain the "joke" to someone. :/
    I get that problem myself about humour heh.


    My mom can be polarizing in my own family. My friend who is LSI-Ti has a way of polarizing people that is very fascinating from my perspective. Sometimes he will put so much effort into dissecting people's arguments that he inadvertently alienates people, which is not his intention, by coming off too serious and rigid. He really likes people and wants to be included but he doesn't come off as warm as some might like, at first . My mom on the other hand seems to lack some warmth as well but she can turn it on and off depending on the situation. She smiles more at strangers and acquaintances than she does with people she is close to. I have no reason to doubt your socionics self type and any issues I might have with our interactions would probably be due to language which I keep in mind when we chat. I do not see you as an intuitive or ethical base type so if I were to consider anything other than logical it would be sensing.
    OK, do you really type me as Ti sub or was that a typo? I'm told I seem nice warm on first contact if it's a situation where I consider the friendly attitude to fit it (Fi role I guess).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK, do you really type me as Ti sub or was that a typo? I'm told I seem nice warm on first contact if it's a situation where I consider the friendly attitude to fit it (Fi role I guess).
    At first I did think it was possible you were Ti sub but chatting with you more makes me want to go with a more balance LSI since I see you as sort of in the middle of the two LSI types I know best.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I know Gulenko is LII

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    At first I did think it was possible you were Ti sub but chatting with you more makes me want to go with a more balance LSI since I see you as sort of in the middle of the two LSI types I know best.
    Hmm ok, I'm definitely not Ti sub btw, @miss BabyDoll seems to lean more towards Ti than I do even though she's also Se sub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    I like fun and challenge & am stubborn too and yes even strict. I'm not really spontaneous irl unless I'm put in a *very good* mood. It's kinda funny sometimes how un-spontaneous I can be. But socially I can get very spontaneous like you see here. Se sub would have more Fe but again, irl I don't really do it... if in very good mood and with the right company then sure. I don't think Fe HA is this restricted. Interesting you noticed how I make comparisons, yes that's pretty spot on, I can also note differences when comparing, of course. But I'm more about that than just directly working with contrasts whatever that may mean.

    OK, do you really type me as Ti sub or was that a typo? I'm told I seem nice warm on first contact if it's a situation where I consider the friendly attitude to fit it (Fi role I guess).
    Negativism is very easy to notice in ppl like Kill4Me and Absurd. No 1 emphasizes them all the time when he wants to prove (or disprove) a typing. Look back in your thread: "this is not what Se base does, this is what ILE does." or "these are not so/sp irises, these are sx/so irises". And he keeps contrasting them visually with pics etc. No 2 uses an Aristocratic lens to flame wars between quadras, types of Logic or whatever else.


    --- ---------
    absolutely not LSI-Ti. Too much Fe and not enough rigor. Kinda does Clint Eastwood go .

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    hahahaha what a travesty of a thread. look at all these silly "smart" homos who think they know sth, going on & on about "balanced between se & ti" as if anyone here even knows what those are, let alone knowing what it means to being balanced between them.
    Last edited by kopyk; 05-02-2015 at 11:03 AM.

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