EIIs/INFjs and disappointment

[purpleowl]

EIIs, do you find that you are constantly getting disappointed in people?

I have trouble reconciling people's actual actions with how I think they should act based on how they claim to feel, which always leaves me feeling like they don't truly care enough until they do something else that proves otherwise. This is a constant source of deep pain for me, which I'm afraid makes me come off as a grouch or someone that gets upset over "any little thing" (not little to me), when in reality it isn't anger but pain and disappointment instead.

[bonkybonky]

I have an EII best friend that does this as well.

[Aylen]

If your expectations are high people will always disappoint you. That is why I try to rid myself of all the expectations I have in relation to others.

"Expectation is the root of all heartache"

[Radio]

EIIs, do you find that you are constantly getting disappointed in people?

I have trouble reconciling people's actual actions with how I think they should act based on how they claim to feel, which always leaves me feeling like they don't truly care enough until they do something else that proves otherwise. This is a constant source of deep pain for me, which I'm afraid makes me come off as a grouch or someone that gets upset over "any little thing" (not little to me), when in reality it isn't anger but pain and disappointment instead.

I entered this thread expecting to get mad but I actually relate to this.

[Olly From Wally World]

I have high expectations so I don't expect much.

[Aylen]

I have high expectations so I don't expect much.

[willekeurig]

I'm not sure I get this. Examples?

[purpleowl]

If your expectations are high people will always disappoint you. That is why I try to rid myself of all the expectations I have in relation to others.

"Expectation is the root of all heartache"

I realize this, yet seem to be unable to detach myself from others in this way. At the height of my disappointment I become apathetic (or pretend to anyway) but it's not a state I can sustain.

I entered this thread expecting to get mad but I actually relate to this.

Why were you expecting to get mad?

I'm not sure I get this. Examples?

An example would be someone not meeting my idea of how one should act or be willing to do for someone they care about, like not finding it worth the time and effort to drive for an hour just to be able to spend a couple of extra hours with me when I would willingly do so without question. In this person's mind: what's a couple of hours more or less? In my mind it is a sign that they care less. In other words, I expect them to be as self-sacrificial as me and it saddens me greatly when this doesn't happen.
With LSEs I've noticed that they seem to compensate for this by acting overly caring when they realize I'm feeling this way and somehow always find a way to show me that I'm wrong, restoring my faith once again, only for it to reoccur at some point of course.
This is just a random example, probably not the best.

[Radio]

Why were you expecting to get mad?

because i don't relate to most arbitrary behavioral traits people assign to types.

also OP, you're probably E4.

[Aylen]

I realize this, yet seem to be unable to detach myself from others in this way. At the height of my disappointment I become apathetic (or pretend to anyway) but it's not a state I can sustain.

It has taken me years of practice and therapy. Apathy is definitely not a state I can or want to sustain so I try to avoid it too but it creeps up on me. One thing that works for me is to notice the expectation and that takes practice. It is easier to detach when I notice it is just my expectation and not part of some greater truth that someone should be a certain way or do a certain thing because I want them to and have built it up in my own mind, so the world should revolve around me, which was an underlying belief that was influencing my perception. Not saying it is like that for you.

If I feel disappointed by someone now I have no one to blame but myself. I am pretty good at seeing just how people will disappointment me if I don't let go of my expectations. Sometimes it is more wishful thinking on my part that leaves me disappointed and I can see it for what it is and separate that from the person.

Edit: The way I was taught was to pay attention for a whole day and just notice each time I had an expectation, no matter how small. Like in a restaurant. Do I expect to be seated right away? If I am not and I get restless I just remind myself that I expected things to go one way and they didn't. That's life. After a while noticing was more automatic.

If my family/friend/partner does nothing for my birthday or even forgets. I remember I wasn't expecting anything anyway....at least I thought I wasn't considering I made a big deal out of people NOT doing something for my bday or whatever. Why would I let myself feel disappointed after I clearly said I didn't want all that fuss. This is where underlying beliefs influence and where I start to notice. On my bday everyone forgets and I find myself feeling sorry for myself. I still had somewhat of an expectation that if they cared they would do something anyway. Even though I didn't want a party I did want to know they care.

Most people are not mind readers. I tell them to do nothing and they take that at face value. Yet I held the expectation that a caring person would have done it anyway. It is a bit of a mind game. If I want something, first I have to figure out what I really want then state it clearly to others. I can't passively hope they will know what is in my heart and mind if I don't. So really it is about communication and knowing what you want out of your relationships with others.

[Amber]

EIIs, do you find that you are constantly getting disappointed in people?

I have trouble reconciling people's actual actions with how I think they should act based on how they claim to feel, which always leaves me feeling like they don't truly care enough until they do something else that proves otherwise. This is a constant source of deep pain for me, which I'm afraid makes me come off as a grouch or someone that gets upset over "any little thing" (not little to me), when in reality it isn't anger but pain and disappointment instead.

You may be sentimentally exaggerating a bit, but all in all this is a good argument that I'm an EII.

I thought Ne kind of helps you play magic on the world and change people's perspectives on stuff as you wish...? make them want to improve and reach an ideal state..? (rather than getting stuck in a feeling of disappointment).

[Beautiful sky]

You may be sentimentally exaggerating a bit, but all in all this is a good argument that I'm an EII.

I thought Ne kind of helps you play magic on the world and change people's perspectives on stuff as you wish...? make them want to improve and reach an ideal state..? (rather than getting stuck in a feeling of disappointment).

I'll bring negative feelings up when they happen but won't get stuck in them it doesn't do anyone any good

[Beautiful sky]

My SEI friend is "tired" of her bf and doesn't like his actions yet she likes the sex with him and sticks around for the money. She vents about his sneakineas around her...he will check up on her to see if she's cheating. She hates it but loves the materials. She won't leave but won't stop getting annoyed and accept it. She's an anomaly. Not much I can do except to provide moral support. Sometimes she doesn't include me in the fun even though I help her in so many ways. I feel used but I forgive her because she lets me help her qhen I can and isn't a leech. I feel sad nevertheless but I have the choice i can let our friendship go but I won't. I'll continue to help her because I understand that she has to deal with difficult circumstances. She will help me in tough times in her own strange way. You can understand the perameters then you can decide how to proceed

[Beautiful sky]

My sharp and straightforward bf will be quick to end that relationship if he finds out that I'm getting used. I should so I don't make a big deal about it.

[Beautiful sky]

Marista, would you say SLI(especially the Te subtype) with E8 could be like this too, or perhaps LSI, which I've also considered for my husband? Because he doesn't like me to be around certain people either (like my SEE sister who he hates) who he thinks is a bad influence, and can be kind of controlling, sharp and straight forward as well. Activity relationship does sound right for us, so I would think if he was LSI, I would be IEI, If LSE I'd be IEE, SLI and I'd be EII... He's definitely either of the three. What's the best way to discern between these three types (He looks EJ, much like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but it could be similar height and build, but they move similarly). What's the most noticeable differences between the three in your opinion? He's definitely E8 and I don't think that's common for SLI? Does anyone know if that's common?

Edit: If anyone has any ideas, just quote me, and the answers can be moved here so I'm not getting the thread way off topic:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...LSE-ESTj/page4

My best guess is that he's E8 sli. They look and act like the ideal lse without the judgemental and harshness or rather the angerness of an lse. Sli try to tease and lighten moods and they are not as concerned about surrounding esthetics as an lse would be since that is external.

[Words]

Edit: The way I was taught was to pay attention for a whole day and just notice each time I had an expectation, no matter how small. Like in a restaurant. Do I expect to be seated right away? If I am not and I get restless I just remind myself that I expected things to go one way and they didn't. That's life. After a while noticing was more automatic.

Of course!

[Aylen]

Of course!

tbh, I usually leave if I have to wait, unless I REALLY want to be in that restaurant on that night.

[purpleowl]

My sharp and straightforward bf will be quick to end that relationship if he finds out that I'm getting used. I should so I don't make a big deal about it.

Really? I have a hard time imagining my LSE bf imposing himself like this.

because i don't relate to most arbitrary behavioral traits people assign to types.

Gotcha.

also OP, you're probably E4.

I most definitely am.

[Beautiful sky]

Really? I have a hard time imagining my LSE bf imposing himself like this.

Gotcha


I most definitely am

Maybe he's not LSE.

[Aylen]

Maybe he's not LSE.

Based on that one sentence?

[Words]

How can he be LSE when he's not dating Maritsa?

[Beautiful sky]

Please don't base typing on fantasy versions of the type that's just what I want to say. LSE are harsh straightforward controlling demanding difficulty because they are indecisive and all sorts of off the wall and if you don't believe me read this: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ity-Work-Meged

Anyway type based on general tendency of one attitude before others.

[Words]

@Maritsa and @Bluebird

Could you please explain to me by what is meant by aesthetics? In this or the context of socionics?

[purpleowl]

I'd also like to point out that my disappointment is directly related to the strength/attachment of my relationship with the person. I think I'm pretty good at not expecting things from most people, in part because I don't feel entitled to, although there is also guilt associated with those I have a strong emotional connection with. So, the guilt is always there and the pain increases in proportion to the emotional bond.

I assume this is all very obvious and applies to everyone, though.

[Kim]

I can agree to disagree, but I don't like the stereotype that LSEs are controlling and socially incompetent because they are not.

[Beautiful sky]

The role or one of the rples of an EII in the dual relationship is to help the LSE develop kinder qualities...now what d eff do you people think that is?

[wacey]

IDK Maritsa, a lot of time I find LSE giving me advice on how to be kinder?

"requesting information through the suggestive function"

[wacey]

In a certain sense, many LSE are controlling, I agree with Maritsa. Its almost a game with that dual pair, its how they flirt I believe. I would replace controlling with the word presumptuous.

[purpleowl]

If you mean control as in liking to give instructions, then I agree. I personally don't see that as controlling, though, and quite like it. It removes the uncertainty I live with because of its matter-of-fact approach. It does not feel aggressive or with any intention to control or have someone submit, which is what I associate with the word "controlling". It is simply done in order to achieve an objective, with no power play involved. This is my absolute favorite thing about LSEs.

[Kim]

If you mean control as in liking to give instructions, then I agree. I personally don't see that as controlling, though, and quite like it. It removes the uncertainty I live with because of its matter-of-fact approach. It does not feel aggressive or with any intention to control or have someone submit, which is what I associate with the word "controlling". It is simply done in order to achieve an objective, with no power play involved. This is my absolute favorite thing about LSEs.

That's not what I would consider controlling. I am thinking more along the lines of
- giving instructions AND getting irritated and impatient when they are not followed
- trying to control what the partner should look like/wear and getting irritable when partner decides to wear something else
- scolding and belittling
- treating the partner like an incompetent child
- pouting, bitching, or giving cold shoulder when demands are not met because partner made up his/her own mind about what is best for him/her

Those are not LSE traits.

[wacey]

Would you say you are disappointed in her?

mahahahahahaaha

[purpleowl]

My bf is telling me to ignore you which I really should since you say a whole lot of nothing and oftwn don't make sense and frustratw me but I'll go ahead and ask why do you think archetypes are assigned to types if it's not ro help define which gives us a way to identify and understand

What is your problem, Maritsa? Why do you feel a need to come off so high and mighty and confrontational? It's like you view yourself sitting on a throne looking down on your subjects and labeling everyone who doesn't agree with you as incompetent. You seem to have a real inability to see things from more than one angle.

Why? Does he want LSEs to be considered controlling?

That's not what I would consider controlling. I am thinking more along the lines of
- giving instructions AND getting irritated and impatient when they are not followed
- trying to control what the partner should look like/wear and getting irritable when partner decides to wear something else
- scolding and belittling
- treating the partner like an incompetent child
- pouting, bitching, or giving cold shoulder when demands are not met because partner made up his/her own mind about what is best for him/her

Those are not LSE traits.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Maritsa doesn't handle ambivalent or versatile people very well. She has a tendency to ignore your existance unless you are extremely faggy, or extremely str8 man. It's something I've noticed about her over the years.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa doesn't handle ambivalent or versatile people very well. She has a tendency to ignore your existance unless you are extremely faggy, or extremely str8 man. It's something I've noticed about her over the years.

????? wtf i took nothing but classes that had mixed people and volunteer at the senior center

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

you've never met me in person

I don't have to meet you in person. Do you have to be in a hair salon to remember what it smells like?

????? wtf i took nothing but classes that had mixed people and volunteer at the senior center

That's just outside superifical stuff. Your psychological energy has always drifted towards extremes, it's why you make all those posts supporting homosexual rights while at the same time wanting a 'real manly LSE str8 businessman' to have his way with you...

[Beautiful sky]

I don't have to meet you in person. Do you have to be in a hair salon to remember what it smells like?



That's just outside superifical stuff. Your psychological energy has always drifted towards extremes, it's why you make all those posts supporting homosexual rights while at the same time wanting a 'real manly LSE str8 businessman' to have his way with you...

what kind of a gay man do you want? lol

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

what kind of a gay man do you want? lol

The best of both worlds, somebody that is cute & sweet but at the same time thuggish/in-charge.

[Beautiful sky]

The best of both worlds, somebody that is cute & sweet but at the same time thuggish/in-charge.

you live in the wrong city for that

[wacey]

The best of both worlds, somebody that is cute & sweet but at the same time thuggish/in-charge.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I do?

Yeah I guess you're right, people here are kinda just too much on the str8/thuggish end without any good sweet fagot payoff.