EIIs/INFjs and disappointment

[Words]

I am talking about someone trying to control someone else's life. It is dysfunctional if my partner tries to take control over my friendships or tells me how to dress or how to behave.

You seem to tell people how to behave a lot, don't describe a woman as a sex machine for instance lol.

OK of course we aren't dating but I find it hard to believe you wouldn't 'tell' a partner how to behave for instance, so no offence but do you see yourself as dysfunctional in such a situation?

[Kim]

You seem to tell people how to behave a lot, don't describe a woman as a sex machine for instance lol.

I didn't tell you not to do that. I just said how I feel about using such a term. If I had been controlling, I would have tried to make you not use the term, which I didn't do. You are free to use that term and I am free to express my opinion about it. Wishing that you didn't use it is not controlling behavior.

OK of course we aren't dating but I find it hard to believe you wouldn't 'tell' a partner how to behave for instance, so no offence but do you see yourself as dysfunctional in such a situation?

I have tried to control a partner's behavior, yes, but not because I generally tell people what to do (I don't), but because it was a dysfunctional relationship. So yes, I was absolutely dysfunctional then. Under normal circumstances, my partner can do/wear/say what he likes (within reason) and might express my opinion about it, but I won't tell him what to do or not do.

[Words]

I didn't tell you not to do that. I just said how I feel about using such a term. If I had been controlling, I would have tried to make you not use the term, which I didn't do. You are free to use that term and I am free to express my opinion about it. Wishing that you didn't use it is not controlling behavior.



I have tried to control a partner's behavior, yes, but not because I generally tell people what to do (I don't), but because it was a dysfunctional relationship. So yes, I was absolutely dysfunctional then. Under normal circumstances, my partner can do/wear/say what he likes (within reason) and might express my opinion about it, but I won't tell him what to do or not do.

Yeah there is always some sort of control. It makes me wonder who is to decide that which is dysfunctional or not.

[Kim]

Yeah there is always some sort of control. It makes me wonder who is to decide that which is dysfunctional or not.

You don't think it's dysfunctional for a partner to take control over your friendships (beyond offering advice if they are not healthy friendships) or to tell you how to look or what to wear and expect you to do as you are told?

[Words]

You don't think it's dysfunctional for a partner to take control over your friendships (beyond offering advice if they are not healthy friendships) or to tell you how to look or what to wear and expect you to do as you are told?

I think it's dysfunctional for me but is it dysfunctional for Maritsa or someone else.

You're being controlling if you are telling someone else that it is dysfunctional for them.

When it comes to advice, isn't advice implied control? ie if a partner doesn't follow 'advice' enough they risk being dumped, so I think advice and orders don't necessarily have too much of a difference.

[Kim]

I think it's dysfunctional for me but is it dysfunctional for Maritsa or someone else.

You're being controlling if you are telling someone else that it is dysfunctional for them.

When it comes to advice, isn't advice implied control? ie if a partner doesn't follow 'advice' enough they risk being dumped, so I think advice and orders don't necessarily have too much of a difference.

No, advice is not implied control if it's understood that the partner can still make her own decision regarding this issue without being badgered or bullied. I am also not being controlling when I point out that I find it dysfunctional when people try to control their partner's life in a way that takes away personal agency. You can disagree with me on whether or not that's dysfunctional, but your attempts at telling me that I am controlling when I am expressing my opinion is getting a bit tiresome.

[Words]

No, advice is not implied control if it's understood that the partner can still make her own decision regarding this issue without being badgered or bullied. I am also not being controlling when I point out that I find it dysfunctional when people try to control their partner's life in a way that takes away personal agency. You can disagree with me on whether or not that's dysfunctional, but your attempts at telling me that I am controlling when I am expressing my opinion is getting a bit tiresome.

It might be dysfunctional for you, but you've no right to pass judgement on it being so for other people unless you are controlling yourself, in other words, let others do what they want. Who are you to judge?

Edit: judging others in psychology is often seen not about the other person but about the person doing the judging themself. Everyone judges, but considering it is about the person doing the judging themself, I cannot see how it is not about imposing YOUR set of values onto another, despite how tiring you might find it to confront this.

[Beautiful sky]

You don't think it's dysfunctional for a partner to take control over your friendships (beyond offering advice if they are not healthy friendships) or to tell you how to look or what to wear and expect you to do as you are told?

I think, most of my family and friends would agree, that I'm pretty docile and that I have the tendency to rationalize people's behaviors and feel differently than what Ej types may, which would be to say "you're an ass hole so I'm going to be this way with you and I don't need to hear or think otherwise, which also allows people to see on the surface, and even to make formulas which would allow them to be linear in their approach such are LSE. Thus I have a tendency to not stick up. Give you an example. We went out for dinner today and the waitress seemed distant and wasn't giving us what we asked for for several times. My bf already determined that she was not a good waiter and that she wasn't doing her job therefore we weren't going to tip her and that was the end of it. I tried to reason with him. I said "you don't know where she's coming from; she could be tired, she could be intimidated by you; she could be listening to you but not hearing you." He had a formula already made up of "who deserves what when and according to what action." I could not break through to him. I tried to sneak in the tip because I gave her the benefit. There was a slight chance that the waitress was a terrible waitress but I wasn't going to oversee all the other things that could have been going on with her. My bf flew off the handle at me for not sticking to his decision. I tried to explain why and he didn't care. He had already determined X, and being linear, he was going to follow through with that. I let him because there's no point in arguing. I told him that I feel for her and what that few dollars would mean to her he said he'd been there and he understands but she didn't do her job so she shouldn't expect to get that tip…explained what tip was for etc. I told him I felt for her and he said "you should be feeling for me" lol I said that I did and I felt good that dinner was satisfying for him and that was what was most important. LSE are not good with people, it does do them well to take the advice of their dual

It's so funny to me that you're so willing to call this dysfunctional, so you must think all Te types are since they make formulas to judge people and their actions and cut people off even when those formulas are not announced to the other party…that is exactly what's happened in the past to so many people who meet Te types. This is why they are not good with people. So you think all Te types are dysfunctional if you think that this behavior is dysfunctional?

[Kim]

I think, most of my family and friends would agree, that I'm pretty docile and that I have the tendency to rationalize people's behaviors and feel differently than what Ej types may, which would be to say "you're an ass hole so I'm going to be this way with you and I don't need to hear or think otherwise, which also allows people to see on the surface, and even to make formulas which would allow them to be linear in their approach such are LSE. Thus I have a tendency to not stick up. Give you an example. We went out for dinner today and the waitress seemed distant and wasn't giving us what we asked for for several times. My bf already determined that she was not a good waiter and that she wasn't doing her job therefore we weren't going to tip her and that was the end of it. I tried to reason with him. I said "you don't know where she's coming from; she could be tired, she could be intimidated by you; she could be listening to you but not hearing you." He had a formula already made up of "who deserves what when and according to what action." I could not break through to him. I tried to sneak in the tip because I gave her the benefit. There was a slight chance that the waitress was a terrible waitress but I wasn't going to oversee all the other things that could have been going on with her. My bf flew off the handle at me for not sticking to his decision. I tried to explain why and he didn't care. He had already determined X, and being linear, he was going to follow through with that. I let him because there's no point in arguing. I told him that I feel for her and what that few dollars would mean to her he said he'd been there and he understands but she didn't do her job so she shouldn't expect to get that tip…explained what tip was for etc. I told him I felt for her and he said "you should be feeling for me" lol I said that I did and I felt good that dinner was satisfying for him and that was what was most important. LSE are not good with people, it does do them well to take the advice of their dual

It's so funny to me that you're so willing to call this dysfunctional, so you must think all Te types are since they make formulas to judge people and their actions and cut people off even when those formulas are not announced to the other party…that is exactly what's happened in the past to so many people who meet Te types. This is why they are not good with people. So you think all Te types are dysfunctional if you think that this behavior is dysfunctional?

Whether or not you give your money to this waitress is entirely up to you. He has no right to *fly off the handle.* So yeah, in my reality this is dysfunctional, but of course different people are willing to put up with different things. Maybe I feel so strongly about this because I have put up with way too much in past relationships, who knows.

More importantly, this is not type-related. My mother and a close friend of mine are LSE and they would make their own decisions in a situation like that, but not try to control others in making their own decisions.

[Beautiful sky]

Whether or not you give your money to this waitress is entirely up to you. He has no right to *fly off the handle.* So yeah, in my reality this is dysfunctional, but of course different people are willing to put up with different things. Maybe I feel so strongly about this because I have put up with way too much in past relationships, who knows.

More importantly, this is not type-related. My mother and a close friend of mine are LSE and they would make their own decisions in a situation like that, but not try to control others in making their own decisions.

These friends aren't people or rather LSE who are dating you so they behave differently

[Eliza Thomason]

I think, most of my family and friends would agree, that I'm pretty docile and that I have the tendency to rationalize people's behaviors and feel differently than what Ej types may, which would be to say "you're an ass hole so I'm going to be this way with you and I don't need to hear or think otherwise, which also allows people to see on the surface, and even to make formulas which would allow them to be linear in their approach such are LSE. Thus I have a tendency to not stick up. Give you an example. We went out for dinner today and the waitress seemed distant and wasn't giving us what we asked for for several times. My bf already determined that she was not a good waiter and that she wasn't doing her job therefore we weren't going to tip her and that was the end of it. I tried to reason with him. I said "you don't know where she's coming from; she could be tired, she could be intimidated by you; she could be listening to you but not hearing you." He had a formula already made up of "who deserves what when and according to what action." I could not break through to him. I tried to sneak in the tip because I gave her the benefit. There was a slight chance that the waitress was a terrible waitress but I wasn't going to oversee all the other things that could have been going on with her. My bf flew off the handle at me for not sticking to his decision. I tried to explain why and he didn't care. He had already determined X, and being linear, he was going to follow through with that. I let him because there's no point in arguing. I told him that I feel for her and what that few dollars would mean to her he said he'd been there and he understands but she didn't do her job so she shouldn't expect to get that tip…explained what tip was for etc. I told him I felt for her and he said "you should be feeling for me" lol I said that I did and I felt good that dinner was satisfying for him and that was what was most important. LSE are not good with people, it does do them well to take the advice of their dual

It's so funny to me that you're so willing to call this dysfunctional, so you must think all Te types are since they make formulas to judge people and their actions and cut people off even when those formulas are not announced to the other party…that is exactly what's happened in the past to so many people who meet Te types. This is why they are not good with people. So you think all Te types are dysfunctional if you think that this behavior is dysfunctional?

LSE are harsh straightforward controlling demanding difficulty because they are indecisive and all sorts of off the wall

Hmm, I have been following this thread not knowing what to make of it. Some of the statements you make of LSE - like being harsh, controlling and especially demanding are not consistent with my LSE "big brother" - the eldest of us 4 - who I totally sure is LSE and fits the descriptions of the various authors. One thing I am wondering is if your bf is not LSE. However, your comfort level is really there, so maybe he is, and its just the way you describe LSE that is not resonating with me. (I do feel he is not SLE, though - phew! - because if he was, the conflicts would have started by now).

My LSE brother is very independent and hardworking; always was. One of my early memories is our family renting a cottage with a private pond with a dock. My LSE brother was off by himself all the time, finding frogs, or fishing in a stream, and my SLI brother and I hung out floating on the pond or exploring the land. When my LSE brother joined us he was always in the lead, and always challenging me to do what they were doing, canonballs and chiding me into diving when I didn't want to. My brothers were all in scouts and LSE was the only one who made Eagle and there was never any question he would. He was industrious, always completing his homework or any task he was asked to do with no nagging. And he would do it well, like when we all did yard work I might dawdle; he was always moving, and would nag us to move, too. I guess he was the eldest child any parent would want!

As an adult he just happily forged on ahead accomplishing. He was not a straight A student but he got good grades, in challenging classes, and a good engineering degree. He has two jobs, his full-time engineering one and his many hours as a "pyrotechnic" and then serious exercising, like triathlon-related stuff. He raised his kids to be independent, too. They all are. He is bossy, I guess, but he can handle no. I have gotten mad at him for insensitivity sometimes, but not often and it does not last long. I have also made suggestions (not often, just sometimes) on how to be more considerate in how he says or does a thing, and he is always open to the suggestions, even seems to value it. He is always doing industrious things, like after a long days work and hard exercising spending half the night at a friends house helping his fix his motorcycle. Then getting up very early Saturday morning because that his favorite time to go to the farm market. And work all day on things like repairs at his rental, and making a dinner from all fresh foods from scratch for family and or friends.

I agree with @Kim's concerns, and also @Aylen that it seems he is controlling. Like the waitress example. I guess what I like about my SLI and I is that we can both passionately say we don't like this or things shouldn't be done that way, and we are both okay with the other not liking something. Like Kim and Aylen, I had experience with someone trying to control me and I know its not healthy and right. However, I realize we may be projecting our experience on you. Because you are not annoyed by it, and do not feel oppressed. Furthermore, the three of us are "P" vs. "J" and we just like openness and keeping our options open more. I think "P''s need some more space. "J"'s like to be more decisive and too much open-endedness is not as comfortable as it is to us. I think of my EII sis-in-law and all the tolerance I have seen her have for her SLE husband taking an insensitive lead on so many things. But for the most part (when she is not REALLY MAD about a thing he did) she is very tolerant of it, and I think she sort of actually likes the security of having him decide things for them. She is happy to "go along".

I think your words that you are using to describe your LSE are putting off alarms. How you mean it is not what is registering in our minds. "Controlling" and "demanding" - these are typical red-alerts for dysfunctional, the kind of dysfunction that people choose to live in, ignoring or justifying their own feelings inside that something is not right, and then over time realize they are beginning to go crazy because of it, and have been diminished and demeaned. But "take-charge, knows-his-mind, has strong opinions, prefers to be take the lead and "appreciates a team-member who wants to jump on board" - those descriptors are less "alarming" - and may be more what you really mean.

[Aylen]

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Oh and Maritsa, you are not 'docile.' You are passive-aggressive. There's a big difference.

I'm not hating on you for it or anything, (I find it amusing and I actually prefer it to aggressive-aggressive people) But c'mon...

[Beautiful sky]

Oh and Maritsa, you are not 'docile.' You are passive-aggressive. There's a big difference.

I'm not hating on you for it or anything, (I find it amusing and I actually prefer it to aggressive-aggressive people) But c'mon...

you've never met me in person; ask my bf; i ignore the living hell out of people who treat me like crap shred my book and spit on my kindness

Docile Definition
dictionary.search.yahoo.com
adj. adjective
Ready and willing to be taught; teachable.
Yielding to supervision, direction, or management; tractable.