Well I am going to start this with Annulments. It starts with a question Aylen asked me privately, but I asked her if I could use it to start this thread. In case anyone else has this question, here is some answers on to common annulment questions. The Q's Aylen had are ones I had once, too.
Don't be sorry for the rant. I am so glad to be able to clarify the good Catholic stuff that I know. You said, "...How can the church justify granting annulment over divorce in these cases?". As to the cases you quoted, I'll get to that. First, you said: "granting annulment over divorce". In reality, the Church may (not in all cases!) grant an annulment but only AFTER the civil divorce. The Church does not "do" divorce, because marriage is indissoluble. So the difference in meanings (annulment and divorce) are important here.
You cannot just "get"an annulment; its granted only if after thorough investigation, the marriage was found to be entered into invalidly. So the annulment investigation primarily is about WHEN THE VOWS were made (though, events after the marriage may point to that). So, that your spouse cheated is not a reason for annulment. It might however be a symptom of a marriage entered into invalidly, like, maybe a person married for "as love as we both shall make each other feel happy" which is not a real marriage vow according to the Church. Well, I don't know if that is a good example but it seems a true one to me.
The question is, were the two fully consenting? Were they of sound mind when they promised, capable of understanding and keeping the promise? Like, for example, if someone were on drugs or being forced by a parent to marry, the Church will call that marraige invalid, because there has to be free informed consent. Those reasons you provided, Aylen, must be official; they sound right.
I do not want to go on about things that make sense already, so rather than discuss them all, I ask, do any of those 8 reasons you provided (in the spoiler), that the Church says are grounds for an invalid marriage, seem questionable to you? - [1. Bigamy, 2. Forced Consent, 3. Fraud, 4. Marriage Prohibited By Law, 5. Mental Illness, 6. Mental Incapacity, 7. Inability to Consummate Marriage, 8. Underage Marriage] I am happy to discuss any of them.
Marriage is indissoluble. The Church does not go about ending marriages. Marriage is forever. The Church takes the sacrament of Matrimony very seriously, as an institution given by God that they have a sacred responsibility to guard. When there is any question of the validity of a marriage and there has been no official investigation, the Church will assume a marriage is valid. That is why you cannot receive Holy communion if you or your spouse has divorced before remarriage, if that prior marraige was not annulled. I know of many married couples - one couple personally, and others I have read of - who desire to reconcile with the church, who may have been married even decades, but, since one had a prior marraige - even for only months or days, perhaps when a teen - if there was no annulment of that marraige before re-marraige its basically like bigamy - that person is still considered married to that person or years ago, not to the one they are been legally married to for years and have children or grandchildren with! So these couples, becaseu they want to reconcile with the Church,. to receive Holy Communion worthily, choose to live "as brother and sister" (no sex) until (and if) an annulment is granted.
Aylen, you said: "I know women who have had their relationships annulled against their will because their husbands wanted to marry someone else. It really bothered them since they were catholic and now in the eyes of the church their marriages were invalidated even though they had children and lived with the man for years. This really hurts them and it annoys me for them. I think it's messed up that they were faithful to their religion and the church abandoned them. I know one woman would have rather been divorced than have to deal with the emotional pain (she is completely torn up over it) of having the man she loved, and once loved her, claim their marriage was invalid. "
When my husband started his annulment process his ex and their daughter had those same questions and concerns (SEE daughter unafraid to verbalize her concerns, so we heard them all!). So I will comment.
First let me say that those two are Evangelical Christian now and I am so glad for them to have found a good Christian faith they are growing and thriving in. However, those of that theology are most often full of misconceptions about Catholicism, with prejudices born of their exposure to so many bearers of false witness as to what is Catholic. Because there are many writers and speakers in their religious practice who spread falsehoods about Catholicism. The worst of these are the so-called "experts" who are ex-Catholic "converts" who never know their faith! They stopped learning their faith when they were 8 years old, but consider themselves experts now! They never read the Catechism as an adult yet they think they know whats in it! They don't. They are just parroting what others have said of Catholicism, to fill the void of what they never learned about the faith they were so richly blessed to be born into, with hearsay, and they spread that false witness further, with the "authority" of having been "once a Catholic" - in name only!
Okay, as my dh's ex and their daughter's concerns, we answered them truthfully and we assume that they "got it" because there have not been complaints since. They were concerned, too, that their marriage was to be called "invalid", so what does that make the kids? Illegitimate?? (Dh always good-naturedly laughs at his daughter for this Q because her two were not blessed to be children of a marital union!). But no, the church is VERY CLEAR that She does not EVER question legitimacy of a marraige entered into in good faith. Its only later recognized as invalid, after an investigation, which leaves that person free to enter a valid Sacramental marriage.
Also, as to your friend, in an annulment the other spouse ALWAYS is given an opportunity to be hear,and indeed to SEE and examine everything that the judges see, the FULL documentation of ALL evidence presented by ALL of the witnesses, and she has opportunity to refute and have her refutes thoroughly reviewed and investigated. This happens late in the process but it happens late so that the other partner can see everything written by all the witnesses concerning the marraige, and correct anything that is wrong, as these things are the basis of the annulment decision.
There has to have been true informed consent to make a marraige valid. Only a marriage tribunal that is well-informed on what is "consent" is can say so. There are also psychologists on the tribunal to investigate claims the person was not mentally competent and the right proof for this then has to be supplied.
Now I just read your above statement to my husband, who replies, "Greener pastures are not grounds for annulments. The tribunal has a responsibility to be sure that nothing like that is being used as grounds for annulment. Greener pastures - that's just - hard cheese!" (grin) He says he is not saying it's never happened in the wrong way, or that a tribunal has never been tricked or corrupted, since they are human, only, but they have a LOT in place to make sure these things don't happen, and years of experience!
As to your friends, it would be a mistake or a misuse of annulment if it had really happened this way. Divorce is so painful, and so unfair when one has given all one has to be faithful and true and yet a spouse strays. Forgiveness is not automatic, it takes time, and bitterness meanwhile can reign and cause further pain - and color perceptions. I would be surprised if it were a very rare case of mis-use of annulment - there is likely more to the story! Like, one of those 8 reasons you gave above is more likely. I do not know what its like to be on your friends end, having an ex-spouse seek and be granted annulment. I wonder what they tell the ex-spouse about the reason for the annulment? (If you want to know, I know where i can ask a canon lawyer that question online, and I will ask).
My husband and I were just discussing how no one ever gave us a full explanation of why his annulment was granted, after supplying so much info and waiting so long. We think they don't want to enumerate the reasons for their decision, and we brainstormed about the number of good reasons why they don't... Like, dh says, "Lest they beget a crop of amateur canon lawyers". Or, I said, "People might pass around a letter with the reason stated, and others would plagiarize it to create a case if they do not have good reason themselves." I guess that's why there is so much privacy in this area, as well as much proper form. All I know is it was handled very professionally. and it took as long as they predicted, about 18 months - which commenced AFTER the long process of my husband compiling his stuff and locating witnesses! A long wait, for us... but it was handled well. And there is no hard feelings with his ex (who, years ago, initiated the divorce). At one point in the annulment process, he was allowed to come into their office if he chose and read all the stuff witnesses had sent in and stuff he ex wrote about it, in case he wanted to refute anything. But he decided not to. I would have, out of curiosity. But "curious" was not a good enough reason for my husband, and anyway he thought it would hurry it to leave that step out (which is an option) so he did.
My sis-in-law, my friend, is Catholic, and married legally by a Justice of Peace a couple years ago to my ex's brother, after they had lived together some years as-if married, and had kids, too. They wanted to finally marry, but could not marry in the Church because he had a prior marriage that had not been annulled, and the Church recognizes it as valid until otherwise proven, so in the church's eyes he as already married". But sis-in-law tells me that he did not "feel like" going through the process. (And my sis-in-law is a practicing Catholic, so, she has two choices: either go to Mass and not receive Holy Communion, or live with her husband as "brother and sister"). Her husband is being stubborn, and she choose not to push him. Because it would be an easy annulment - unbeknownst to his first wife he was having an affair at the time he made his vows with her. So, no informed consent, and also clearly he did not mean it when he said, "forsake all others". So, easily, that is invalid! (But I am not a Canon lawyer!)
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P.S. The two links: As to the Crux woman, Margery Eagan, its a very emotional piece she wrote, but lacks logic! I can comment on it if you are interested. The other, yes, Pope Francis wants to make annulment cheaper and faster to help people. Cheaper is not such a problem in our country (or most countries), where fees are generally about $200 and go towards the salaries of highly trained people who pour hours over the documents, but that is for who can pay. No one is denied an annulment for not being able to pay anything. Yes, the length of annulment is long. Our Pope is thinking of cutting out the end part, that is, after its all done, having another Diocese's Marraige Tribunal look over all the paperwork to be sure nothing is out of order (another reason why its hard to get an annulment for a false reason). That took us about 2-3 months of our 18. The bulk of the time that is hard to do anything about is just waiting, waiting for witnesses to submit their responses. They have to give people time, and some people need a lot of time. People have busy lives and taking the time needed to answer such not-routine questions does not hit the top of everyone's priority list...
Why Do Catholics Do That?
Did Catholics even go to Heaven? (likely not!).
Oftentimes, the reason is because what you have heard about Catholics is not true, and once you hear what we really believe, it does make sense!
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Originally Posted by Aylen
Feel free to respond if you want:
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She didn't even date for two years after her husband left her to marry some chick he met online. They were both 19 when they married (had children two years later), which might have something to do with it too. I guess they were given a second chance or something. Her husband was seeing the other woman for a year of their marriage and apparently got started on the annulment right away.
(However my Ti is not too shiny bright!)
