2015 Type Galen Thread

[anndelise]

Second Part, finally.
@William
I write with barely 2-3 inches of text showing at a time, so I do have to multiquote cuz I'm two fingering all this and am not going to add a shitload of scrolling and place refinding to that. Suck it. (oh wait, this might be an example of an IEE not giving a fuck and happily doing her own thing?? Blasphemy!)

Socionics DOES cover motivations. I think you need to read up on, ann, on the Hidden Agendas.

For starters, the hidden agenda is vital, not mental. It activates the base, feeds it, mobilizes it into action, but isn't a conscious drive. If Galen were demonstrating Se HA, we would be seeing an activation and mobilization of his supposed Te base. He would probably now be expounding on all sorts of Te shit, in an attempt to overwhelm his opponent with a bunch of big words, complex sentences, and sheer crappage. (Like Ashton does. )I'm not seeing that happening.

What I AM seeing is Se Role, combined with a who f'n cares about William attitude. Which IS in the mental ring, and requires a certain amount of stress/irritation to get there.


BTW, in the link you have, of Expat's interpretations of Hidden Agendas, there was a link to a thread about IEEs Te HA. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-hidden-agenda

In it, Galen wrote:

For me, Te HA manifests as a strong push towards precision in verbal and written coherency. When trying to convey a serious observation or hypothesis, I make sure that my ideas are conveyed in as exact a way to my original interpretation as possible. When I'm not in the flow of things this get awfully draining though, as I have to force myself to stay focused and push onward. I also have immense appreciation for people who are able to do the same, when the ideas they have just spill out so naturally and with such verbal precision. Even now I'm struggling to come up with more specific examples of what I'm trying to describe, but I continue to push myself for the sake of self-betterment. In this way I don't really seek ways in which I can be more "efficient" with my activities, as the popular dogma would have you believe; rather, I find myself seeking greater clarity and depth in how one conveys his/her ideas, as opposed to summing things up under an arch of generalizations.

I think this is a damned good description of IEE Te HA.

I agree that there is a variation of types that should be accounted for, and people's experiences affect the "actual content", but as I analyzed in post #15 of this thread, which is still unanswered, I think the differences between Galen and other IEEs outweighs enneagram differences or instincts and can be defined socionically. If you have any examples, ann, I am curious.

In my prior post to this one, I addressed such "differences". Also, see above about Se Role and his description of IEE Te HA. Sorry about the two postings, but limited space and limited brain tonight for juggling it all at once.

Regarding the 'you never viewed Galen as disdaining other IEE', where have you been? Just in this thread he called them "demon hell-spawn". I really think your perceptions are off, ann.

Please show me times before this thread where he has shown disdain for IEE in a totally serious non-joking manner.
I've seen him do similar things regarding e6s, of which he self types as, as well.
Also, I'm sure he was referring to IEE-SOs, which fits with the joking conversation I read in the chatbox earlier this evening.. Whether it came from that conversation or another one, it does seem to be one of his 'things'.
Also, Radio says inside joke. You know...a 'thing'.

Regarding Galen's 'anxiety about making meaningful connections with others', if you read my link about Hidden Agenda/ PoLR, you might see that it sounds more typical of Gamma NT as opposed to IEE. I don't see IEEs as having anxiety making meaningful connections with others at all, since they are usually great in the realm of people relationships.

Sit down and have a real conversation with any IEE, and you'll soon learn that it's truly not uncommon for IEE to be neurotic about their relationships with other people. See, Ne-HP really has a way of fucking with one's perceptions. For every positive, sure thing, there's two or more unsure things tagging along with it. We can't help but turn things around, see them from differing lights. And it's pretty much guaranteed that not all of those lights are positive ones. If you ever got involved with an IEE, it wouldn't be long before the neuroticness would start to appear.

Add in enneagram's Anxiety/Head Center, and you've really got a mess to deal with. Oh...wait...sorry, I forgot I'm supposed to be LIMITING my ideas and understandings for you.

Galen actually exhibits behavior of Fe-PoLR similar to Cpig.

Not seeing it.


Not quoting the whole paragraph here, just the best parts, lol.

He hasn't responded kindly to my posts so far but seems to have curled up as if emotionally offended that I didn't go along with his glorious self-typing.

Galen I can see exhibiting Se HA from my 1st link, where he's trying to show how "brave and confrontational" he is, especially shown by his comments about being 'smarter' and seeing others as "demon hell-spawn".

First, typing one's self as IEE isn't glorious. It has way too much neurosis that goes with being IEE.

Secondly, Do you seriously think that you have that much of an affect on him? To make him curl up at your 'weak-Fe'. At your supposed Fe-HA of "trying to show how popular and liked by the crowd you are, but are actually making yourself look like an ass"?

Which is it, William? Are you Fe base and polr hitting him, making him curl up because you, personally, William the Great, don't support his self-typing? Or are you merely Fe-HA making yourself look like an ass?

Also, talk about contradictions. One minute you're claiming he's curling up at your supposed weak-Fe, the next that he's "trying to show how "brave and confrontational" he is". Which is it? Is he cringing away at your mighty Fe or puffing his chest up in confrontational stance? Make up your mind. Is it Fe polr you're 'seeing', or is it Se HA? You can't even keep it straight in your own mind, in the SAME freaking paragraph!!

I can easily see you, ann, as being IEE, as you're trying to reconcile the differences in perceived information but don't notice the inconsistencies.

Then you totally SUCK as an ILE, cuz a Ti-Polr IEE can see your inconsistencies a mile away. (See the above as a reminder.)

In fact, I have NEVER seen an IEE, when attacked and forced to defend themselves, resolve an argument with Ti-PoLR by saying they are simply "smarter" than someone else. That also seems much more typical of Gamma NT or another type than a cheery or perceptive IEE.

You've never seen an IEE suggest that they are smarter than you? Can you truly not read between the lines? I've told you numerous times, in varying threads, just not in such abrupt words. Seriously, look above, I told a supposed ILE that I can see his dumbass inconsisencies from a mile away.

Oh..you said resolve it. Well, yeah. It wouldn't resolve an argument very well. But that's not to say an IEE wouldn't say such a thing.

And ffs, Ne base with Fi creative, does NOT mean "cheery and perceptive". Nor does it mean they don't have their Se role moments.

-----

If you love enneagram so much and think it better describes and explains interactions with people than socionics, please kindly leave the socionics forum. Until then, stop using it as a crutch to dismiss any socionics inconsistencies pointed out.

If you can't handle alternative ideas, alternative theories, alternative understandings, or other legitimate possibilities, etc, then please kindly drop the Ne base from your typing.

I will add my usual disclaimer and say I can still be wrong in my analysis. Perhaps Galen is a ridiculously unique IEE.

He's not 'a ridiculously unique IEE'. You've just got ridiculously unique inconsistencies in your arguments.

But more importantly - what I hate most - is people who disagree with someone else's socionics analysis/posts by saying 'no, no, that's because of enneagram'. It's a cowardly way to construct an argument, is it not?

No, it's not. It's typical for NFs to have numerous theories about people.
It's also typical of NeFi to have varying ideas of what all might be influencing the differences between people, and how two people are interacting.

@Galen, stop being so IEE for William, it's agitating him.

I could easily dismiss someone else's entire socionics analysis by saying 'no no, that's because of enneagram' - but that wouldn't really lead to fruitful socionics discussion, would it? How can any intelligent socionics discussion be generated if anytime functional definitions and IE are discussed, people just point to enneagram out of - laziness? - of constructing an answer with socionics?

How can any meaningful discussion about actual people and their actual relationships be generated if you insist on blocking out all other ideas/theories/possibilities?