Old photos

[Iris]

I think about your type when I see posts from you, and I haven't been willing to make a decision - like I needed more information. And I hate the thought of contributing to a mistyping. But the more I read your posts, the more I think IEE. And there is a wistful quality in your facial expressions that looks like Si-dual seeking to me. I definitely think NF >NT.

[Iris]

Hi Iris, I have even considered if you and I are the same type - just from your writings...do you really get a sense of quasi-identical coming through in any way between us?
I assume by 'wistful' that you are meaning a melancholic sadness? Could be, for as a child I was highly intelligent and spent much time thinking and reflecting on life. I also had a malformation on a cheek and under the hair which gave me a sadness and of course I was not too happy to have photos taken sometimes in case it showed. Though like you say that wistful look could just be Si-dual seeking now that you mention it.

I do think there are a lot of similarities between us. But I think there are going to be similarities between NFs.

I dont usually get much of a quasi identical vibe from casual IEE relationships, and I dont get one from you. I usually just enjoy them. If I have to work closely with them, then I might start to get stressed by their Si dual seeking, and I eventually get tired if they start brandishing too much Ne.

I was also very reflective as a child. There was sadness in my childhood as well - neglectful alcoholic mother, domineering father. But I dont really look sad in my childhood pictures, I mostly just have that slightly unfocused NF look. I do remember feeling a strong sense of injustice, along with the anger and confusion over my circumstances. More of a beta victim mindset, I suppose.

I did have a hard time choosing between Beta and Delta. I am surrounded by Deltas, and I do admire many things about them. Ultimately, I feel slightly immature when I am around them. There is a little rebellion in my heart that seems foreign to them that I sort of cover up when I am around them. I was required to be cheerful by my father and frequently criticized by him for revealing my true feelings in my youth, and I have come to realize that I have been wearing a mask for most of my life in response to the reaction that i get from Deltas and Gammas when my Beta values show a little too much. (There are very few Betas in my life.) Spending time traveling with my Delta friends, I came to realize that their Si valuing was annoying to me. My unvalued Si is what has really helped my choose between Beta and Delta.

[Eliza Thomason]

My choosing a quadra is also difficult...on paper Alpha more than Delta seems to fit - with me being an NT or NF but really I am unsure of what I am seeking from another.

How do I notice my dual in real life or upon the forum? Hopefully I am married to my dual but there are no guarantees.

I admire people who accomplish things in this world, those things which I struggle with such as easily getting what they aim for in life. I appreciate people who can cook for me, those who get jobs they so desire and can ask for pay rises or promotions and receive. I like it when someone close to me actually cares about me and my health - though please don't go too overboard - like massages do nothing for me. I appreciate someone who will take me out for nice food and coffee with good conversation, minimal swearing and sufficient laughter.

I may on occasion refer to how stupid something is that somebody does or thinks and I may even say it to that person though this usually only occurs when I am very upset as mostly I try to use my manners and be polite.

For myself also, childhood was not easy...abandoned by a father who renamed his child with the next woman my name...not even knowing for sure that he was my father...a mother who did not want me nor love me nor gave but the rarest physical touch...told almost daily that I was not wanted, shouldn't have been kept, should have been given away....being taken to another country and given quickly a new surname and father figure...made to earn my own keep in varying degrees until the age of 15 when I then provided totally for myself living on my own.

As a child I was not allowed my thoughts or feelings to surface or punishment was increased...somehow my sister was allowed her screaming and loud tears but my silent ones were not acceptable.

But guess what...I would not change any of this...I am not angry nor sad nor a victim for I have learnt much and can see the joy in any situation and the positive qualities from others that were at times sent my way...I try to look on the bright side and don't too much appreciate those who want to display their negative emotions to others outside of those close to them...people have enough negativity in this world without loading more in anothers realm.
Don't be fooled though as I believe that everyone is entitled to their feelings...it's just don't force them upon others lives.

Does this all seem Delta or even maybe Alpha - I am not sure.

Really this is not just a response to Iris's post above but a sharing of some of my values.
So c'mon guys (& gals) - what quadra would this all be associated with?

Well I can give you impressions; I do not feel confident about VI'ing you, or making a sure guess of your type or Quadra. I love your pics - what a lovely child and young adult. Yes there is a wistfulness there which reminds me of IEE a bit, and a bit of seriousness, also IEE. Another thing that seems familiar is quiet contemplation of unfairnesses in life as a child, quiet uncomplaining suffering in that, but not holding it against anyone, being able to shake off any possible bitterness but instead of wishing our experience was different, being glad to have learned from it. Also seeing the positive qualities of others who were not so positive in our lives. I also do not like displays of negativity when they impose on others, while I also accept people's negative feelings. That all seems IEE to me. Also, "manners and polite" seems IEE, or at least Delta. I prefer positive communications and it feels more responsible and considerate to see the positive side of things and of people (particularly people, as you never know what very good hidden reasons a person has for living or responding to life bad ways).

As to accomplishing things, jobs, cooking, raises -- these are things I have had to work hard at as they did not come "naturally" to me, but I felt pressured by how I as raised by my family and community (like my competitive high school where we were were asked our career plans, and expected to have good ones). I felt I HAD to have a career path and do something noticeable in it, and without that pressure I might not have accomplished as much. Not because it was in my heart to, but because I felt I HAD to. I have seen other types in this situation. I also felt it was a requirement of a good wife to be a good cook, and I worked very hard at that, too.

I too always had an aversion to asking for money or raises, too. I wanted to major in art therapy in college, but when I found I was going to have to talk people into creating jobs for me, I chose to minor in it rather than major, and picked a field (education) where salaries were set. All to avoid asking people for pay!

So in all those ways I am saying you seem consistent with Delta and possibly IEE. But I am not sure. Perhaps the things I noticed are not unique to IEE. And I am not strong in VI, so, I cannot say for sure what those pics VI as, though they are charming!

Here is something I have noticed about EIE, which is an NF I think you are probably not (what do you think?). I would love to hear if an EIE thinks that what I am going to share that I have noticed about EIEs is consistent with their type. It does make them different from IEEs! In the 3 EIEs women I have known, I have seen a certain love of being the center of drama. Those EIEs are typically the soul of a social situation, bringing life to it, being brightly and engagingly outgoing, charming everyone. And they have a penchant, at times (not constantly), to have guys competing for them and they seem to truly revel in that "stardom". Whereas it makes me uncomfortable when I have been in that in the past, as I feel for others' angst, and would prefer to avoid that situation altogether, plus, I feel guilty about any part I played in bringing it about.

[Iris]

I would love to hear if an EIE thinks that what I am going to share that I have noticed about EIEs is consistent with their type. It does make them different from IEEs! In the 3 EIEs women I have known, I have seen a certain love of being the center of drama. Those EIEs are typically the soul of a social situation, bringing life to it, being brightly and engagingly outgoing, charming everyone. And they have a penchant, at times (not constantly), to have guys competing for them and they seem to truly revel in that "stardom".

Regarding EIEs, I can only speak for myself, but I personally don't care for being the center of drama. I guess the definition of drama is open to interpretation. But for me it has a mostly unpleasant connotation that makes me think of conflict. I enjoy discussing things, and don't mind disagreeing with people. But conflict never enters into it. I think it is important to always be respectful when interacting with people. And when you are respectful, I think that you can avoid a lot of drama.

Also, I would have no interest in guys competing for my attention. That seems shallow and attention-seeking, and devalues the real importance of each relationship. Regarding EIEs reveling in stardom: I occasionally speak to groups, and I am always happy to have my message received positively. It feels good to stand in front of a group of people and hear applause. But my reason for being there is to help my audience, not because I am looking forward to being a star. And if I thought someone might look at me and think that I was reveling in applause and being the center of attention, I would be very unhappy. Because that seems very shallow to me.

My inner world is full of strongly held beliefs, many of which I think should be spoken of or fought for (but I am not a fighter,) great love or dislike for certain people, despair over certain situations, sorrow over things that have happened that can't be undone. It is not a peaceful place. It is full of strong emotion. But why would I want to vent that strong emotion? Just to stir up drama? That seems very pointless to me. If I am trying to get an important point across, I am going to do everything I can to make my message sound good, and hopefully present myself in a non-offensive way so that people will want to listen to me. I am good at reading people, and I pick and choose things to use from my inner life that will help me be at my most effective in the outside world. Being dramatic and a blatant attention seeker, would not go over well in my world.

Obviously I am not always successful in my communications. Deltas, in particular, have judged me for being too harsh, or vehement, at times. Then I back off, apologize, if necessary. But there is no drama.

[Iris]

For example I can be the bright soul of social situations bringing life and am quite gifted in getting people to open up easily regardless of their gender. However I can find this all very draining too as I mostly give so much.

This is very true of me. I do a fair amount of entertaining, and I always want people to feel relaxed, happy, entertained, or whatever state is enjoyable to them when they are at my home. I am not necessarily trying to get people to open up, because several of my friends don't want to do that. But they seem to be happy just quietly observing everyone else. I do look out for people who have been pinned by someone who is monopolizing them, or someone might not know many people there and needs some introductions, or someone who is sad or worried who needs to vent. I try to help out situations as needed. I do find it quite draining, on top of having had to get my house ready and provide or coordinate drinks and food. By the end of the evening, I am usually happy to be standing in my kitchen washing dishes with one or two people in there with me talking that I can listen to. I usually don't even want to talk at that point, just listen.

[Iris]

@Shay It is amazing that you can be so philosophical about your difficult childhood. I agree that it is best not to be bitter about things, but learn and grow and help others because of what you have gone through. But I think that is more true for older teens and adults. I have such a hard time hearing about children being treated badly. I have not gotten over my own childhood difficulties and harbor resentment toward both of my parents for various things, even though I have tried to put it behind me. I would totally want a do-over with a happy secure childhood if I could have one!

Another difference that I have noticed in this thread, is that your writing style also seems lighter and more gentle than mine.

I wonder if this could be a difference between EPs and EJs.