Do people tend to be perfectionists in their POLR function?
I know some Te POLRs who produce really high quality work, albeit slower than Te egos.
Perfectionism in POLR function?
Do people tend to be perfectionists in their POLR function?
I know some Te POLRs who produce really high quality work, albeit slower than Te egos.
No. Not me. Te Polr do produce high quality work but they don't always notice what's going on around them as they lean to Si. Work isn't Te Te is watching actions and movement, dynamics of things.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
What would be an example of Ni-POLR perfectionism?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
perfectly using every minute of your time? everything going according to plan?Originally Posted by Suz
maybe worrying that everything doesn't go according to plan? Ni bases know how to absorb one's time if they know what plans people have with distractions and over extended conversations and such.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
yeah exactly, Ni bases are lenient with distractions and changes of plan because they have an innate sense of how long things take, thus they can stop and start at their leisure. Ni polrs wouldn't feel naturally how long things take so every little distraction would risk jeopardizing the whole plan.
I think Overcompensation is more applicable than Perfectionism. But even then, the overcompensation comes from the Ego functions. Te - Polr won't produce their top quality work through Te at all. They'll use Fe to infer what is valuable to focus on, and the overcompensation comes from the strength of their base. With my Ni, it's like connecting the dots. I may not have the breadth of knowledge or the compulsion to be active like a Te would, but i can figure things out quickly and compensate by focusing on whats important and how to work them together to make up for the time spent procrastinating.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
good point, I would say there's a lot of over-compensation from the demonstrative function as well, though it would be unconscious and more of an aftereffect, in response to how the polr is received.
Last edited by ConcreteButterfly; 12-25-2014 at 12:00 AM.
How about Fi-POLR perfectionism?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Idk I have to think about all of these. In my case Se is mearely sense perseption and I'm overwhelmed in attacks but I have a difficult time backing down where Se base may pick and choose better than myself. Se also perceives texture of objects so I get overwhelmed around clutter and too many things so I actively clean up ang get rid of things nor hord them or organize the clutter. Most of my SEE friends have a lot of stuff and nic nacs or boxes of unorganized paperwork that they don't get rid of. I don't have that. I can't because I don't need to hold on to them so controllingly. I also dont get a lot of things just a few that I can get by on.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ti-Rationalization wheelhouse.
Think Walter from the Big Lebowski.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
i had to remind myself:
what exactly are you referring to though, for example?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Ok now, what about Ti-POLR perfectionism?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
How is this Ti-POLR perfectionism as opposed to just Fi-valuing?
so in your mind, only IEEs are sympathetic to people with downs syndrome, deformities, etc??? That's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard, actually.
so NTR in so many ways...
Are you basically saying you're not sympathetic to these people, since you dont self-type IEE?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I'm not sure about people with Down Syndrome or stuff like that, but I could totally see IEEs being one to want to support people in need. I have one IEE who I need to control how much I just whine to them, because they're so good at dealing with my whining and they don't get fed up of it - ever - it seems.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
Well, i can't be ILE, since I'm very sympathetic to people with Downs syndrome, deformities, etc.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
OK so you believe IEEs are more likely to be sympathetic, but you also believe that some IEEs won't care. I wonder if you could present your 'believe' in actual numbers here, because what you are really saying is that none of what you have spoke it type related.I really hope you're not being serious... I think it's not definitively type related. Why couldn't an ILE be sympathetic towards people with Downs syndrome?
I meant to say I believe IEEs are more likely to be sympathetic to those in need, like ClownsandEntropy sort of said also. (meaning some IEEs would still not care, of course, while other types still would...) I wasn't trying to classify things as black & white as 'ONLY THIS TYPE CAN DO THIS' like you seem to be doing...
Please tell me you're not being serious with that statement.
In other words, you've rambled on the whole way to say absolutely nothing.
Are you displaying Te or PoLR perfection William?
Its your own words, my friend... your own words...I really hope you're not being serious... I think it's not definitively type related. Why couldn't an ILE be sympathetic towards people with Downs syndrome?
And you're still contradicting yourself here. Being sympathetic to someone with a disability is NTR. No "more likely" or "less likely".I meant to say I believe IEEs are more likely to be sympathetic to those in need, like ClownsandEntropy sort of said also. (meaning some IEEs would still not care, of course, while other types still would...) I wasn't trying to classify things as black & white as 'ONLY THIS TYPE CAN DO THIS' like you seem to be doing...
Please tell me you're not being serious with that statement.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
ive heard the polr function described as 'democratic'. ti polrs with their need to broaden categories are probably then coming from a democratic perspective, that all people can be in all positions and that categories are interchangeable. this would, in theory, make it easier to defend their Te hidden agenda when they lack facts/working methods.
i've noticed this about polrs too, it seems to be an "all or nothing" function, fi polrs all people are good or they're all corrupt, ni polrs all is going according to plan, or all is off track, etc. polr seems to take extreme positions, simplifying things too much.
The Dude: Walter, what is the point? Look, we all know who is at fault here, what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: Huh? No, what the fuck are you... I'm not... We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
The Dude: Walter, this isn't a guy who built the railroads here. This is a guy...
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you...?
The Dude: Walter, he peed on my rug!
Donny: He peed on the Dude's rug.
Walter Sobchak: Donny you're out of your element! Dude, the Chinaman is not the issue here!
Rigid(and in this case obtuse) logical structure defining what is right and wrong. A system. A code. Walter is a great example of a guy who lacks Fi, but overcompensates for it with the other functions he does possess. Force and Logic.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
That was the example i had in mind when i watched the video too, actually...
Thanks for confirming!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I see my PoLR as something I try to avoid as much as I can. If I can't avoid it, I just try to get it over with as quickly as possible without thinking too much about the 'right' way of going about it. Far from perfectionist here. If there's any function I'm more likely to be perfectionist about, it would probably be my base function or possibly my role function. My role function, because I have some insecurity about it so I overthink it.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
well probably not everyone becomes perfectionist over their POLR, because not everyone gets sustained pressure on their POLR in their everyday life.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
PoLR perfectionism is something I've noted in other posts. The PoLR is a source of neurotic perfectionism, generally limited to a narrow area. It's a 1 dimensional function.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect...8psychology%29
See the wiki about normal vs neurotic perfectionism here. I will link the posts I've made in the past about this.
"Normal perfectionists are more inclined to pursue perfection without compromising their self-esteem, and derive pleasure from their efforts. Neurotic perfectionists are prone to strive for unrealistic goals and feel dissatisfied when they cannot reach them."
Hm it does sound like how the polr is experienced, one has unrealistic expectations of themselves in this area and takes mistakes as a sign of personal deficiency. The high expectations are probably from the hidden agenda, and the fact that polr lacks even social norms to give it perspective.
I tend to over-focus on my polr shortcomings and go over everything 3 times to make sure I'm not accidentally letting it slip (online at least; it's obviously harder since real life doesn't have a submit button). As a result, I make less obvious/often polr oops's than many other people of my type, but it still happens.I'm not good at it and it doesn't come naturally and I prefer to avoid it, but sometimes it's impossible.
what is Fi to you and how do you overcompinsate on itI tend to over-focus on my polr shortcomings and go over everything 3 times to make sure I'm not accidentally letting it slip (online at least; it's obviously harder since real life doesn't have a submit button). As a result, I make less obvious/often polr oops's than many other people of my type, but it still happens.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
what do you go over 3 times? like stuff you say? to make sure it's appropriate?I tend to over-focus on my polr shortcomings and go over everything 3 times to make sure I'm not accidentally letting it slip (online at least; it's obviously harder since real life doesn't have a submit button). As a result, I make less obvious/often polr oops's than many other people of my type, but it still happens.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yes.
(obviously not things that are one word posts like this, but in general I try to be mindful)
Offline, it's more trying to get myself to stop overthinking things.
no problem @Suz
do you try to adhere to social norms regarding Fi?
Normative perceptions on Fi
–You have to be polite.
–Must follow the rules of etiquette.
–You have to be nice to people.
–Support the perception by others of himself as a good, decent man.
–"I do not have a hundred rubles, and a hundred friends."
–A true friend is always around to help.
–"A friend in need is known."
–"An old friend is better than two new ones."
–Do not use foul language in public places, with children and women.
–Return good for good.
–Not to change their promises.
–Respect their parents and elders.
–Respect the religious and personal feelings.
–Courtesy call / response invitation if I was invited to visit, then I also have to invite. If I had guests and I was invited back - impolite to refuse.
–Between friends, no bills.
–Talk shit behind my back - badly.
–Climb into the personal life or feelings - bad.
–Between family members should be a good relationship.
–The mother must love children.
–Grandchildren love more children.
–A woman should not be rude.
–"Do not wash dirty linen in public."
–Need to provide emotional support to loved ones.
–You can not make fun of physical defects.
–A woman may be late for a date.
To emphasise: I don't think the question is whether people follow or agree to these norms, it's just whether, when they're making decisions related to Fi, they seem to create these "norms" as guides on what to do. Examples of Fi-norms are then listed to illustrate the kind of norms that people create.
Warm Regards,
Clowns & Entropy
Not really. Most of that list looks arbitrary and useless to me, in general. But I think this might fit one of your 'norms':
My general anxiety comes from my inability to determine distance between myself and others. For instance, at what point is it appropriate to assume someone you talk to at work in a friendly manner to hang out outside of your workplace? Are you just friends at work, or could that friendship extend outside of work? What if they don't view you in that way? Okay, best not to put yourself too far out there in case they just see you as work friends; it would be best to wait and see if they invite you to hang out outside of work.
I don't make many new friends lol. I am wary and come across as very closed off because I don't know what is appropriate. Depending on how comfortable I am in an environment, however, I can do the opposite and come on too strong. Not in terms of asking people to hang out, of course (that's too invasive), but just in general mannerisms.
Wow these are really generic and I don't see who keeps all of them all the time. A lot of it is completely meaningless to me and a few of them sound like unattainable. I think I recognize a few of the less generic ones in the sense that I do agree but I could only try to justify them with Ti not Fi. The meaningless ones I can't really. There is one or two of them that I think I can almost "get" via Fi but it's vague, like it's not truly justified or explained
You have no idea what Te even is. And you donīt know shit about the theory as one who wants to perfectionize his PoLR or something like that isnīt correctly typed.
Am I the only one noticing a contradiction here?
Nothing was said about WANTING to perfectionize the POLR.
Sometimes you are expected to engage your POLR so we are discussing what happens when that's the case.
But i agree that I dont think Te necessarily represents ability to "good quality work" as concretebutterfly alluded to. Good quality work can be a product of other IEs too. Being efficient, yes, that's a manifestation i could see as Te-motivated. Many jobs require being efficient, and there are Te-POLRs who might end up in such jobs, for example. What then? People end up needing to cope, even while fighting and hating the requirement to the bitter end.
Because POLR is a weak function, you end up needing to invoke all your other strengths to compensate for it... and that leads to a neurotic way to try to keep up, like an all or nothing thing. When it comes to the POLR, you would rather be in the "nothing" mode, but if you have to show competence in your POLR, you give it your all so you dont mess up or fail--analogous to "throwing the kitchen sink" at something that you have no idea how to fix. Obvs that can't be sustained for long, especially since the whole time you're trying to be good at it you hate the expectation & pressure of having to be good at it.
Last edited by Suz; 12-25-2014 at 09:36 PM.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
i agree with this, the polr is way too "narrow" an informational channel to get enough energy out to defend yourself directly, so you compensate by involving your stronger functions. i would imagine this defensive involvement eases when there is no pressure applied to your polr, either good or bad. then your polr would express itself more directly, in response to the real needs of the situation and not your fear-based expectations.
I think that's also why too much pressure on one's POLR can lead to major burnout... you're giving it everything you have, and also being "fight or flight" defensive about it.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I certainly can sympathize with this. In the brief moments that I require Fe (usually in the presence of a Fe valuing type in a position of power above me) I can pull everything I have together and be somewhat charming, socially acceptable, and even smile at people. The effect this has on my psyche if it goes on for too long (1/2 hour plus) is incredibly draining though. It's as if the element itself is kryptonite to me and I can only maintain in its presence for so long.
I spent two days on a fishing trip with a good friend's family last week. His father is an ESE. The sheer level of group participation and positive exclamation and "fun" was overwhelming for me. I came home and just died inside for about 24 hours. I still feel exhausted from it actually. Him and I have always gotten along in brief five minute intervals but prolonged contact I think was tiring for both of us.
I have always felt (even before learning about socionics) that I could be sort of charming and acceptable for short periods of time, even though I viewed it as faking to fit in when absolutely necessary. It's also interesting because PoLR is an inert function so advice is not appreciated on it. That being said when I am forced to engage in it, I do think I am extreme about it and perhaps perfectionistic is a possible word I could use to describe its brief appearance.
You just become so aware of it, and how they expect it from you, that you use all other functions to channel it and not do it wrong. Maybe that's where the perfectionism comes from. It can't be good for anyones mental health to have any prolonged exposure that requires them to use it.
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