Inordinate ESE hate

[nifl]

I percieve SLI... but as you are one, being different subtypes might make you seem more different that you are. Which one are you?

he's consistently focused on emotional expression, jokes and on people. the quality of and the ability of him to focus on his logical argumentation is low, as when I discussed his type with him. SLI is extremely unlikely - IEI or SEI seems most likely atm

@Tallmo
SEI has Fe to a similar degree - all Fe types do; the perception of your relationship to the types should not be very different for SEI - a type like SLE, SLI or IEE might, however, perceive ESE significantly less favourably than SEI; the perception of Fe as ''false and two-faced'' sounds more like how a Te type with hurt feelings would express it. I perceive my mirror positively, if boring. you don't exactly give me SEI-vibes, either, btw. an example of a likely SEI in my view is @welcome - compare her bubbly style with yours.

>and can get into arguments or prolonged discussions.
not very common with the mirror. things are understood similarly and there are the same values, so communication is easy and pleasant. relatively minor problems with rationality/irrationality is the usual extent of the problems

[Tallmo]

@Tallmo
SEI has Fe to a similar degree - all Fe types do;

The creative function is not the same as the base. The base-suggestive pair can create instabilities and problems in all types. Fe-Ti problems is what you can see in ESE. SEIs problems are related to Si-Ne.

the perception of your relationship to the types should not be very different for SEI - a type like SLE, SLI or IEE might, however, perceive ESE significantly less favourably than SEI; the perception of Fe as ''false and two-faced'' sounds more like how a Te type with hurt feelings would express it. I perceive my mirror positively, if boring.

I do perceive my mirror positively too. The chemistry is obvious. I wasn't really talking about my relations to the ESE type as a whole here. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's just that in some individuals some very negative things happen. And I don't think I said that Fe as such is "false and two-faced". I said that some ESEs can be like that. I think it has to do with how well integrated the whole personality is with the functions. Fe on autopilot is unpredictable.

you don't exactly give me SEI-vibes, either, btw. an example of a likely SEI in my view is @welcome - compare her bubbly style with yours.

No I don't give any obvious SEI vibes. At least not in this forum. Not all SEIs are "bubbly" all the time. Women perhaps more often.

>and can get into arguments or prolonged discussions.
not very common with the mirror. things are understood similarly and there are the same values, so communication is easy and pleasant. relatively minor problems with rationality/irrationality is the usual extent of the problems

Here are some descriptions of mirror including potential problems: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/mirror.html

[timber]

The creative function is not the same as the base. The base-suggestive pair can create instabilities and problems in all types. Fe-Ti problems is what you can see in ESE. SEIs problems are related to Si-Ne.



I do perceive my mirror positively too. The chemistry is obvious. I wasn't really talking about my relations to the ESE type as a whole here. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's just that in some individuals some very negative things happen. And I don't think I said that Fe as such is "false and two-faced". I said that some ESEs can be like that. I think it has to do with how well integrated the whole personality is with the functions. Fe on autopilot is unpredictable.



No I don't give any obvious SEI vibes. At least not in this forum. Not all SEIs are "bubbly" all the time. Women perhaps more often.



Here are some descriptions of mirror including potential problems: https://wikisocion.github.io/content/mirror.html

A lot of times they are just not thinking about deeper patterns, in themselves, or others. Or they see patterns.. but hope for the best anyway. I don't find all ESE reactive, usually it's the mentally unstable ones anyway. And reactive is a misnomer, it's more like, bitchy. It's just more a shock when Fe Si leads do it because they are normally trying to take care of that space, or at the bare minimum, not conflicting it.

[Tallmo]

A lot of times they are just not thinking about deeper patterns, in themselves, or others. Or they see patterns.. but hope for the best anyway.

Or just some obvious patterns that they don't see. There is a tendency to get into absurd discussions with ESE when they just don't get the point but will keep following their feelings. They can try to push things that are unfair, claiming that this is just common sense and they have the right attitude.

I don't find all ESE reactive, usually it's the mentally unstable ones anyway.

Definitely. Or under stress. We are not talking about all ESEs here.

And reactive is a misnomer, it's more like, bitchy. It's just more a shock when Fe Si leads do it because they are normally trying to take care of that space, or at the bare minimum, not conflicting it.

Can be. But sometimes it is the inferior function and then it can be unusually cold. Jung said that the Fe types (ExE) can be the coldest ones. They normally value the object, but their Ti is then the opposite: total, blunt disregard of the object.

[timber]

Or just some obvious patterns that they don't see. There is a tendency to get into absurd discussions with ESE when they just don't get the point but will keep following their feelings. They can try to push things that are unfair, claiming that this is just common sense and they have the right attitude.



Definitely. Or under stress. We are not talking about all ESEs here.



Can be. But sometimes it is the inferior function and then it can be unusually cold. Jung said that the Fe types (ExE) can be the coldest ones. They normally value the object, but their Ti is then the opposite: total, blunt disregard of the object.

Do you have some real life people examples? I'm trying to see eye to eye here with you.

[Tallmo]

Do you have some real life people examples? I'm trying to see eye to eye here with you.

I gave one example of absurd discussions with ESE here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1542476

About the coldness. Can't give any examples, it's just something I've seen in some ESEs I know. EIE should be similar too. All types can have imbalance base-suggestive, it's just that it's easier to see in Fe-Ti. But if you know ESE well you should be able to experience it. Unhealthy ESE can have very unpredictable mood. The conscious side is nice, social and constructive and then there's another side that is the total opposite: destructive, cold, devaluing. Less seen, but sometimes pops up.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I gave one example of absurd discussions with ESE here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1542476

Lol. I knew a male ESE that reminds me of. I usually feel that kind of angry passion is funny, but also appealing in a way. Someone who just feels what they feel, and isn't afraid of the consequences of speaking it seems admirable! Most people are selfish, but double-minded about it. They "know" what they do is wrong but make excuses about it to themselves and suppress their reactions if they get exposed. I feel like this kind of reaction is more honest if anything. As well as just being fun.

I think if I had a friend who reacted like that that my reaction would be something in the spirit of "yeah! You're great! How dare those heartless bean counters bust you" and just keep enjoying the outburst.

About the coldness. Can't give any examples, it's just something I've seen in some ESEs I know. EIE should be similar too. All types can have imbalance base-suggestive, it's just that it's easier to see in Fe-Ti. But if you know ESE well you should be able to experience it. Unhealthy ESE can have very unpredictable mood. The conscious side is nice, social and constructive and then there's another side that is the total opposite: destructive, cold, devaluing. Less seen, but sometimes pops up.

I know what you mean, though I guess to the extent I've thought about it I've thought it has more to do with Ne HA/Ni PoLR. IME this side usually comes out when they're sensitive about how they're treated/seen. And the mindset seems to be something like "I've just been who I am! I can't have done anything else. If I'm not accepted then what is the point of existing..." And their minds start racing, more in the abstract sort of way, trying to "get behind" or understand "the point" of things, which I associate more with N than T. Their thoughts can get pretty morbid.

Again, since IME this mostly just happens when they're feeling upset, being nice to them takes them out of this mode quickly. Since it's so easy to cheer them up I don't personally mind this kind of thing.

[Eliza Thomason]

he's consistently focused on emotional expression, jokes and on people. the quality of and the ability of him to focus on his logical argumentation is low, as when I discussed his type with him. SLI is extremely unlikely - IEI or SEI seems most likely atm

Sailor's suggestion of Ti-lead for you seems a likely possibility, actually. SLI is quite unlikely to suggest to someone a correction of their self-typing, IMO.

I generally accept another's self-typing all the way until I see a glaring "no". For you I am not seeing a glaring no - though, I have not seen many of your posts. However, the conflict with another SLI over your same typing strongly suggests you are not both the same type. You both know you are not a match. And I have long-observed Sailor as SLI. I know my SLIs well - with Dad, brother, husband, as well as at least one woman friend, as well as other SLIs in my life over time.

Typing is a passion of mine. It is the kind of mystery-solving that I enjoy. Therefore, I designed this quiz for you! Will you please take it? I can't wait to see what you decide for these questions. Just pick which is more likely your way: "A" or "B".

1. Is your desk and/or workshop closer to:
A) Fairly orderly
B) Disorganized and messy

2. Which party would you enjoy more? One that has:
A) Loud general jokes and shared laughter, with entertaining persons present
B) Quiet smiles and people sharing interesting things about each other

3. Do you prefer time in groups that
A) Have a strong shared-identity
B) Are more splintered and decentralized

4. Do you prefer:
A) Analyzing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects
B) Analyzing alternative and could-it-be scenarios.

5. Do you enjoy subdued discussions about one person's personal experience, focusing on their own inner feelings?
A) Not particularly
B) Yes, I enjoy this much

6. Which job/position in your field of interest would you prefer?:
A) An interesting area of administration
B) Any job that has high flexibility and low accountability

7. Which way of communicating is more characteristic of you?:
A) To dialogue
B) To monologue

8. When someone is talking, are you more likely to:
A) Affirm the receipt of information with yeah, mhm, etc.
B) Listen attentively and silently to their speech, and then return with my own long speech.

9. About your decision-making:
A) I plan ahead, and I often make early decisions, which often don't need changing
B) I tend to wait and see, and make spontaneous decisions, which I often revisit and revise.

10. Your natural state when approaching tasks:
A) Readiness: You work best if you are able to start mobilizing in preparation for what you must do. You tend to perform an entire task at once, and to maintain your internal 'readiness' between tasks.
B) Relaxed: You work best if you relax beforehand, and you mobilize only for the duration necessary. You tend to divide up matters into smaller stages, during which you are mobilized, and you relax between each stage.


11. Which is way is yours?
A) I easily go from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized', but not from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed'. External stimuli (like a movie) helps me relax.
B) I have an easy time going from 'mobilized' to 'relaxed', but not from 'relaxed' to 'mobilized'. External stimuli helps me get mobilized.


12. Which sentence best represents your attitude towards considering options?:
A) "I will not get stuck in the process of consideration; it always ends in a decision being made."
B) "Consideration is very nice, that time during which you still don't have to make a decision. It's even better when it isn't necessary to do anything afterwards."

13. Which best describes your approach to a work task?:
A) Sequentially, from the beginning to the end. I get immersed in a process and tend to single-task.
B) Randomly, seemingly doing them from the end to the beginning. I am detached from processes and I tend to multitask.

14. When telling or creating a story, which applies best to you?:
A) My stories tend to contain one main character.
B) My stories tend to contain multiple characters.


15. Which statement more likely would come from you?
A) "I have my own ideas about how things should be done, 'a mind of my own' - but so does everyone else."
B) "I like find the 'best' or 'correct' way of doing a thing. There usually is an absolute optimum way of doing anything."



Nifl: I have to say I wrote this with a snap guess at your type and I could be wrong, so it would help me to know if you found answering these questions: Easy, Fairly Easy, or Difficult.


@BraveSailorBoy - would you take this too, please?

.
.
.
.
.


___________________________
G o d...i s...g i v i n g...u s...o u r...c o u n t r y...b a c k...a n d...N O T H I N G...C A N...S T O P...G O D .

...A great event in the world is coming, and the whole world will know that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has acted...