Inordinate ESE hate

[timber]

Strong evidence that most people who study socionics are ILI. I enjoy ESE characters like Sakura.

I'm not familiar with the Character.

This forum is hilarious. I've been here for over 10 years and the crowds have changed lots during that time. In the beginning of my time it was all Alpha NTs in this place. Then it was lots of betas - deltas - gammas. Most of them no longer sign in. Back then forums were social media.

[velveteen]

The healthy ESE is not hateable, in fact quite the contrary. The unhealthy ESE will wreak havoc, but they're not instigators. So you can't even hate them then.

[Still Alive]

Just a random thought, I think this whole talking about types could be off-putting to ESEs. Maybe that's why they are not here. Like this X type is annoying because etc etc when in the end we're just talking about random concepts and patterns in our head. It's also just not that graceful and civil. I kinda regret joining in now but I already typed so much.

Are you implying that everyone here is intuitive and some types don't give a shit about socionics? Outrageous!

[Rusal]

​Forums like this tend to procure people that are looking for something that makes them unique, that separates them from the rest; “I’m not like the other girls” teen angst.

Imaginary ESE is the type that serves as the perferct antagonist: half-EIE emotionality, half-IEE ‘challenged-individual’ .

It all depends on the ITR but I've met a couple of ESEs and they've shown more mental consistency than IEE airheads.

[Bethanyclaire]

ESE is the every girl..

In the same way LSE can be bully-ish, ESE can too. But they’re more vulnerable than LSE.

EJs are the most competitive (and SLE). They need to feel like leaders- strong, and sometimes it goes to their head.

[Rusal]

ESE is the every girl..

In MHO the every girl profile, as far as it corresponds to ‘typical’ feminine emotionality, social energy and manipulation of a person's own display of outward emotions, and is perhaps more easily recognizable as the standard/cliché temperament profile in females, aka: in the direction of the ‘cheerleader, woohoo’ stereotype at a higher rate relative to males, tends to correlate maybe more to EIEs younger/young women. Gulenko wrote that EIE is the predominant type for women and it should be noted that his statement coexists with the popular notion that it's not uncommon for the description I just wrote to apply more to women at a significant level or enough to paint an instantly recognizable form in a person’s mind. ESEs have strambotic Ni polr so they actually deviate from the every girl stereotype in what I perceive of them. I believe 'The Enthusiast' eponym played a trick on non-Russian speakers because it's not based of Fe excitability per se but more on ESE's vulnerable function.

[Bethanyclaire]

In MHO the every girl profile, as far as it corresponds to ‘typical’ feminine emotionality, social energy and manipulation of a person's own display of outward emotions, and is perhaps more easily recognizable as the standard/cliché temperament profile in females, aka: in the direction of the ‘cheerleader, woohoo’ stereotype at a higher rate relative to males, tends to correlate maybe more to EIEs younger/young women. Gulenko wrote that EIE is the predominant type for women and it should be noted that his statement coexists with the popular notion that it's not uncommon for the description I just wrote to apply more to women at a significant level or enough to paint an instantly recognizable form in a person’s mind. ESEs have strambotic Ni polr so they actually deviate from the every girl stereotype in what I perceive of them. I believe 'The Enthusiast' eponym played a trick on non-Russian speakers because it's not based of Fe excitability per se but more on ESE's vulnerable function.

Hm I don’t think EIEs have enough self-awareness to be thought of as ‘every girl’. Maybe men think women are like EIEs. EIE could be the ESE’s bestie..

I doubt EIE is the predominant type for women..SFs seem a common type for women

[Mairon]

I analyzed a lot of ESEs and I've come to the conclusion this is one of the types which changes most in regard to gender. Maybe because Female have a strenghtned Fe, while males more introverted funtions (idk, but there is an explenation for sure).

I consider two ESEs male friends of mine the best individuals I ever met, socially speaking. They are perfectly equilibrate. Smart, nice, know what to say to everyone and make other laught, yet are unobstrusive and live in the moment peacefully without any sort of drama. They are sensitive but perfectly collected and never have moments in which their emotions overflow, despite being extraverts. When they have anxiety about the future, they just talk about it with close friends and vent in private.

While, in most of the ESEs girls I always find excessive problems related to anxiety and burst of emotion. They have haste in doing things and in the end take the worst path (they fear the future, due to ni polr, and so they do excessive planning). Thousand of changing ideas and plans that brings nowhere and are forgotten after two days, and they need to speak about them anyway. Also, their demonstrative Se makes them appearing cringe at times. I consider demonstrative also as the "social expectation" function. Talking about the importance of money and their projects just because they want the other to believe they are doing important things (even while not doing a sh1t), for this fear of being judged, while nobody cares and just find their empty words unnecessary. Obviously this is just what I'm experiencing, but lmao I get to know new ese girls so often and they are all like this.

I hope my comment doesn't make anyone angry. These are just my empirical observations.

[EIE H]

I analyzed a lot of ESEs and I've come to the conclusion this is one of the types which changes most in regard to gender. Maybe because Female have a strenghtned Fe, while males more introverted funtions (idk, but there is an explenation for sure).

I consider two ESEs male friends of mine the best individuals I ever met, socially speaking. They are perfectly equilibrate. Smart, nice, know what to say to everyone and make other laught, yet are unobstrusive and live in the moment peacefully without any sort of drama. They are sensitive but perfectly collected and never have moments in which their emotions overflow, despite being extraverts. When they have anxiety about the future, they just talk about it with close friends and vent in private.

While, in most of the ESEs girls I always find excessive problems related to anxiety and burst of emotion. They have haste in doing things and in the end take the worst path (they fear the future, due to ni polr, and so they do excessive planning). Thousand of changing ideas and plans that brings nowhere and are forgotten after two days, and they need to speak about them anyway. Also, their demonstrative Se makes them appearing cringe at times. I consider demonstrative also as the "social expectation" function. Talking about the importance of money and their projects just because they want the other to believe they are doing important things (even while not doing a sh1t), for this fear of being judged, while nobody cares and just find their empty words unnecessary. Obviously this is just what I'm experiencing, but lmao I get to know new ese girls so often and they are all like this.

I hope my comment doesn't make anyone angry. These are just my empirical observations.

I noticed my ESE dad acts like how you describe the males (eloquent, very socially skilled, calm, collected) in public, but in private, he acts more like how you describe the females (emotional outbursts, fearful of the future, very strict scheduling, validation-seeking in how he compares with others). But another ESE male I knew was one of the kindest, most calm, giving individuals I have met… just a very sensitive soul.

I think it’s a lot more socially acceptable for women to be overly emotionally indulgent while men are expected to be more calm and collected. ESE seems to be the type who is the most sensitive about fitting into social normative roles/gender roles.

[Bethanyclaire]

I remember going for dinner to my EIE friend’s house in my early twenties. Her ESE best friend/ room mate was there. I don’t think the ESE liked me- I’d met her before. She kept yelling at my EIE friend when we were making dinner. She kept hounding the EIE, telling her she didn’t have a real job so didn’t have the right to complain about work. It was so
rude, in front of a guest. The same person also sold drugs to my sister and she was hospitalised afterwards- and then tried to deny selling it. They’re not all nice, fact, especially when they’re young. SEE/ ESE probably cause a lot of harm in high school. SEIs can also egg people on/ be bitchy.

[Sol]

SEE/ ESE probably cause a lot of harm in high school.

All types are similar in a harm and use. They differ in what kinds of those do more.

In negative IR people pay more of attention on negative sides and underesteemate positive sides, what influences on general perception.
Also people with objectively negative behavior and having bad IR will be evaluated worse, due to sum effect. Because of this more of "worst ones" should be remembered among with bad IR.

Objectivity and perception about people match not good, same as for many other what exists in the life.

//

If you have IEI, then remembered as "very bad SEE" are suspicious to have worse IR. As positive IR soften negative impression of a human and of what he does, besides lesser chance you'll perceive his actions as not appropriate.

[Bethanyclaire]

Well. I saw an ESE therapist once. I’d had a few sessions previously with a trainee therapist- five or something, nothing more ever before that. A year later I call back the service to say I need more help. They arrange for me to see a therapist at a GP surgery. One of the most awful people I’ve ever met-pretty sure she was ESE. I asked for more support- she asked me have you tried the techniques you learnt before with the therapist? I’m honest and I explain no blah blah maybe. I tell her that I engage in my ‘ocd problem’ when watching tv. She says don’t watch tv. (Lol). I tell her, the first person I’ve told ever, this problem has stopped me ever having a relationship. She says ‘what never?’ And pulls a judgy look. She sends me away to try harder..

of course the problem persists and later I see another therapist and do group therapy. Recently I called them back and they arranged for someone to call me and talk things over, this time I think the lady was LSI and she was lovely. I may or may not have more therapy (but would probably have to go private this time- people in the UK are so used to free health care it can be confusing where to go for private, but they have started sign posting better now, kinda coz they have to). I may not even need it.

But yeah that ESE lady was evil to me that day

all coz she had an agenda that you need to give things a proper go before being deserving of help. Jesus.

edit: tbh I’m wondering if she could have been LSE. Still I have my run ins with ESE- they will often put on a facade of wanting to help you, but really they just want to look like they’re helping you, to make them feel better about themselves

[Tallmo]

Well. I saw an ESE therapist once. I’d had a few sessions previously with a trainee therapist- five or something, nothing more ever before that. A year later I call back the service to say I need more help. They arrange for me to see a therapist at a GP surgery. One of the most awful people I’ve ever met-pretty sure she was ESE. I asked for more support- she asked me have you tried the techniques you learnt before with the therapist? I’m honest and I explain no blah blah maybe. I tell her that I engage in my ‘ocd problem’ when watching tv. She says don’t watch tv. (Lol). I tell her, the first person I’ve told ever, this problem has stopped me ever having a relationship. She says ‘what never?’ And pulls a judgy look. She sends me away to try harder..

of course the problem persists and later I see another therapist and do group therapy. Recently I called them back and they arranged for someone to call me and talk things over, this time I think the lady was LSI and she was lovely. I may or may not have more therapy (but would probably have to go private this time- people in the UK are so used to free health care it can be confusing where to go for private, but they have started sign posting better now, kinda coz they have to). I may not even need it.

But yeah that ESE lady was evil to me that day

all coz she had an agenda that you need to give things a proper go before being deserving of help. Jesus.

edit: tbh I’m wondering if she could have been LSE. Still I have my run ins with ESE- they will often put on a facade of wanting to help you, but really they just want to look like they’re helping you, to make them feel better about themselves

If you go private, is it possible to shop around for awhile to find a suitable therapist? ESE sounds like a bad choice. Activator probably better. Identical could be worth trying, there are probably IEI therapists. You can talk on the same level, with natural understanding. Similar weaknesses can actually be a good thing. If a therapist is very different from the client then there's the risk that they talk over you, without knowing it, or just trying to cheer you up, because they don't really understand your position, and that won't work for long.

[Bethanyclaire]

If you go private, is it possible to shop around for awhile to find a suitable therapist? ESE sounds like a bad choice. Activator probably better. Identical could be worth trying, there are probably IEI therapists. You can talk on the same level, with natural understanding. Similar weaknesses can actually be a good thing. If a therapist is very different from the client then there's the risk that they talk over you, without knowing it, or just trying to cheer you up, because they don't really understand your position, and that won't work for long.

umm so this is my experience so far..

first therapist, maybe ESI, don't really remember much, she seemed inexperienced

then they made me see a therapist in a GP to be 'reviewed'- this was the woman who could have been ESE-si, she was almost LSE-like

later I had a long round of therapy with an EIE. Not good but we did our best lol.


Then I discovered socionics etc and had some group therapy with an IEE-fi and and SEI-fe. I still listen to the SEI-fe meditation tracks- she's good!

Recently I called the local free service and they 'screened' me. The lady was LSI- she was really good but there is a long wait list so she advised go private. She was really nice.

Then I got screened by an IEI- bit intense...

Now I think the new lady is ESE-fe, maybe. She seems ok though- I think because I only want a 'refresher' of CBT, she might actually be ok. But will def see how it goes.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Sol I don’t know Sol, would this therapist have been so harsh on another? Perhaps I triggered something in her as her supervisor. It’s my thinking that ESE therapists can make big mistakes. She was likely just a rude sort of person. But it’s a big mistake and there should be things in place to not let it happen- more advice/ guidance/ regulation by non ESE types maybe

SF can be regimented robot like, not contextualising situations, too harsh, quick to judge..and they are often in support roles..more NF guidance is necessary for support to be better accessible and appropriate

[Bethanyclaire]

my ESE neighbour (above) is driving me nuts. She is only a young girl but she has 100% ignored me when I've complained about noise- footsteps/ scrapes which are really really loud. She will have to do something in the end because I'll keep complaining to the powers that be. But she seems to have decided I'm not worthy of respect. In her own world. If I'd have been more ESE-ish and approached her in an ESE way she probs would have been nicer. As it is, I can only communicate with her via note- attempting to make the notes nicer- I will not knock on her door as it's too tense atm, but maybe she will knock on mine if I get the wording right. I know I sound cowardly but this issue started when I was going through my toughening up yet being bullied phase, and I could not deal with it..

[Muira]

my ESE neighbour (above) is driving me nuts. She is only a young girl but she has 100% ignored me when I've complained about noise- footsteps/ scrapes which are really really loud. She will have to do something in the end because I'll keep complaining to the powers that be. But she seems to have decided I'm not worthy of respect. In her own world. If I'd have been more ESE-ish and approached her in an ESE way she probs would have been nicer. As it is, I can only communicate with her via note- attempting to make the notes nicer- I will not knock on her door as it's too tense atm, but maybe she will knock on mine if I get the wording right. I know I sound cowardly but this issue started when I was going through my toughening up yet being bullied phase, and I could not deal with it..

I think it's less of her being ESE, but rather her self centered nature. It's not always that deep, just file complaints and talk to other neighbors if they have the same issues with that woman. If that is so, then everyone can file complaints, and that woman will get a serious notice, hopefully that would get her to change.

[Bethanyclaire]

I think it's less of her being ESE, but rather her self centered nature. It's not always that deep, just file complaints and talk to other neighbors if they have the same issues with that woman. If that is so, then everyone can file complaints, and that woman will get a serious notice, hopefully that would get her to change.

It wouldn’t affect anyone else- it’s just noise directly above my bedroom. The issue is that I handled it badly in the first place- I’m embarrassed by that so don’t want to elaborate. This is a noticeable pattern in my life- an issue comes along and I tolerate it, thinking it’s my fault, because I didn’t deal with it sooner. And it gets worse etc. I’ll buzz her once today, if no answer- note. If no response, call who I need to call. If I’d just harassed her from the beginning she probs would have given it sooner.

[Distance]

An Fe or Te Dom unhealthy can be over bearing. It's strong judgement function and if things don't line up you'll get bowled over. EJ wants the external balanced for their sake. It's like Sol around here holding everything down to the canon. Not saying this poster is unhealthy. But that's the MO out of the gate.

If you can handle abusive speech and theatrics you'll have no problem with an unhealthy Fe Dom.

[Bethanyclaire]

lol i chickened out and i called my landlords. But will try to catch her..

[Muira]

It wouldn’t affect anyone else- it’s just noise directly above my bedroom. The issue is that I handled it badly in the first place- I’m embarrassed by that so don’t want to elaborate. This is a noticeable pattern in my life- an issue comes along and I tolerate it, thinking it’s my fault, because I didn’t deal with it sooner. And it gets worse etc. I’ll buzz her once today, if no answer- note. If no response, call who I need to call. If I’d just harassed her from the beginning she probs would have given it sooner.

Well why be stuck up about the past? Just go up to her and tell her to shut the fuck up in person, carry yourself with more confidence. You can choose to make yourself less serious or not, but the thing about confidence is that people often have a hard time if it's fake or not, that's why confidence goes a long way. It doesn't matter anything about socio bs right now, what matters is that problem, and what you need to do is be more straight forward and cut the crap.

[Bethanyclaire]

Well why be stuck up about the past? Just go up to her and tell her to shut the fuck up in person, carry yourself with more confidence. You can choose to make yourself less serious or not, but the thing about confidence is that people often have a hard time if it's fake or not, that's why confidence goes a long way. It doesn't matter anything about socio bs right now, what matters is that problem, and what you need to do is be more straight forward and cut the crap.

it's not crap lol. But yeah point taken.

[Muira]

it's not crap lol. But yeah point taken.

I recommend you stare into the mirror and repeat the phrase, "I'm a bad bitch" for 3 minutes minimum before you confront her.

[Bethanyclaire]

I recommend you stare into the mirror and repeat the phrase, "I'm a bad bitch" for 3 minutes minimum before you confront her.

lol I already did! I heard someone in the hall so I checked to see who it was. We had a long convo and she was alright..she’s gonna see if someone can check the floor- other than that we can get on to the land lords which is probs an even bigger task lol

i’m also glad she’s seen I’m not a crazy person- all of the time lol

[Muira]

lol I already did! I heard someone in the hall so I checked to see who it was. We had a long convo and she was alright..she’s gonna see if someone can check the floor- other than that we can get on to the land lords which is probs an even bigger task lol

i’m also glad she’s seen I’m not a crazy person- all of the time lol

Ha! Usually if a neighbor is a bitch to one person, they are a bitch to the rest for the most part. Guess she is just a bitchy person

Either way, glad I could help!

Remember that a lack of confidence shows, and a lot of people don't care about people who lack confidence because they see you as insignificant, crazy, or a potential schzio even.

Sheep ignore the weak and rarely doubt the confident! That's how we have a shit ton of crazy people being world leaders, that's because they are good at being confident and lose their cool less often. When you loose your cool, you fail to convey your message.

[Bethanyclaire]

@Virtuoso it was sort of an out of body experience- i saw how soft yet diplomatic I could be. I think as I am older, she did just expect me to talk to her about anything. But we had got off on a bad foot for other reasons, and it just got so awkward. And yes I have experience of working with crazy leaders. I was already gaining confidence- (self-possession, self-assuredness), but the crazy leader helped me to understand that you gotta be prepared for anything lol.

[Muira]

@Virtuoso it was sort of an out of body experience- i saw how soft yet diplomatic I could be. I think as I am older, she did just expect me to talk to her about anything. But we had got off on a bad foot for other reasons, and it just got so awkward. And yes I have experience of working with crazy leaders. I was already gaining confidence- (self-possession, self-assuredness), but the crazy leader helped me to understand that you gotta be prepared for anything lol.

I know it's right! You seem pretty nice, but nice and confidence makes a huge power combo. You got the message!

[Bethanyclaire]

For all the shit I’ve gone through, it can be fun having an ESE mum. Taylor Swift (ESE) is obsessed with her IEIs..I think it’s quite a romantic friendship pairing.

uh I really liked my ESE-fe therapist. She didn’t quite cure me lol, but she was so nice…and we had really good convos, like a twin best friend therapist. It was a bit dual like, like when you’re talking to a dual and it’s all flowy and nice

My SLI guy doc is my new bf too, my go to guy!

[Sol]

[QUOTE=Bethanyclaire;1575830]Taylor Swift (ESE) is obsessed with her IEIs..

Taylor Swift - ENTP. and "IEIs" can be other too

> I think it’s quite a romantic friendship pairing

What you think is quite against IR theory.
Friendship fits to good IR and not to among worst as suborderie. IEI will perceive ESE as lower kid, and ESE would prefer more of logical reason from a pair. Pairs with bad IR are made by not personal attraction, but mainly sexual or for profits.
When I had an attention from familiar ILI revisor, I wanted more of emotional warmnes, of inspiration. She was attractive, but not enough interesting to inspire significant feelings. After knowing me better, she'd wanted more too. So I did not supported her interest and after knowing about types there was an explanation why. I seeked for good long pair and this needed personal attraction of higher level.

> I really liked my ESE-fe therapist. She didn’t quite cure me lol, but she was so nice…and we had really good convos, like a twin best friend therapist.

In case you have IEI then that best friend "ESE" could to have SEE, for example.

> It was a bit dual like, like when you’re talking to a dual and it’s all flowy and nice

a semidual would be not far

> My SLI guy doc is my new bf too, my go to guy

for IEI positive perception is possible for SLE, LSI. for neutral as SEI some possible. for superego - among least possible

if to identify types correctly observations fit better to theory, while what say contradicts it much

[Bethanyclaire]

@Sol I don’t have long lasting ESE friends- I do like my sister’s best friend who is ESE though. Taylor Swift is friends with Suki Waterhouse, Selena Gomez, Blake Lively. She’s Taylor Swift she can be friends with who she wants. Also when I have had brief friendships with ESEs they have been very fun. TS probs likes being supervised a bit, someone seeming smarter than her..for a change. IEI can have a hard time with EIE and EII, ESE can be similar to those types and feel warm and fluffy, like a best friend, if not truly one. SFs seem to be the best at having ‘best friends’.

funny to think of ILI being supervisor to LSE..

I’m sure supervision can be a loving and exciting match- if not the best for long lasting success.

My dad got super annoyed with me when I criticised his relationship with my mum (supervision). There is chemistry (not obvious) but from his reaction I could see. They’re just not that good at putting their heads together- e.g they could have helped me. In a way it’s passion over helping their kids..I don’t know like they have a secret attachment and it makes them a bit blind to stuff.

I think for many non positive ITR, for the couple to come together there must be a lot of natural chemistry. I think I met one dual who was my ideal, but imagine if you met a non-dual who reminded you of that person? I think that is what it feels like (or can feel like)- some version of your ideal dual. Like the SEI I fancied- it was so pure in a way.

like my sister talking about her mirror first love..

your supervisor can seem ‘weird’ but hey guess what so can your dual, we love weird!

also TS is not an N type- she tells stories, she paints a picture. She is very F. You can see more n type language in Lana Del Rey because of ni HA. T.S's writing is not abstract, weird maybe, but not abstract- sorry I'm sure a music journalist could describe it better. The music (not lyrics) can be more abstract and overall she has great messages in her songs- ni polr.

A good example of pretty ILE langauge is in the tv show the OC. The language is pretty and light, like Taylor Swift but it's more wistful and idealistic- e.g there is perfect happy family living in a beautiful perfect home who adopt a teen from a broken home. It's so lovely though so I can see the similarity.

[Bethanyclaire]

And yeah my mum was definitely verbally abusive and emotionally negligent towards me growing up. Probably because she was one- stressed, but two also coz she was verbally abused as a child herself I guess. If it hadn’t been for a stroke of luck, in the last four years my life probably would have been a bit ruined tbh- it’s mental how much that trauma can pass down. Trying to read a bit of Gabor Mate atm..