Enneagram type 9: all things Nine

**silke** · 11-24-2014, 01:08 PM

i'm feeling bored of the instinct threads, starting a new series on enneagram types.

Nine Qualities of the 'Enlightened' Being: Type Nine Chapter

The enlightened quality associated with the Nine (who is also known as 'the Mediator') is a capacity for reconciliation of opposites, synthesis, integration . It is symbolized by male and female deities in yab-yum position (what Jung calls the 'Mysterium Coniunctionis'), and by the Yin/Yang Diagram (which depicts the yin half of the diagram arising out of a yang core, and the yang half of the circle coming from a yin essence at its center). There is an interpenetrating nature to opposites which is recognized by the Nine in her wisdom.

The capacity for reconciliation originates in the appreciation, at the core of one's humanity, of what Thich Nhat Hanh calls 'interbeing', our essential interconnectedness with other human beings and with the rest of the universe.

It is difficult to find English or French words which convey the same meaning as tiep hien . There is a term from the Avatamsaka Sutra, 'interbeing', which conveys the spirit, so we have translated tiep hien as interbeing. In the sutra it is a compound term which means 'mutual' and 'to be'. Interbeing is a new word in English, and I hope it will be accepted. We have talked about the many in the one, and the one containing the many. In one sheet of paper, we see everything else, the cloud, the forest, the logger. I am, therefore you are. You are, therefore I am. That is the meaning of the word 'interbeing'. We inter-are. (Page 87, Being Peace)

According to Von Franz,

We are still probably aeons away from realizing such a state of free mutual interrelatedness among all human beings. A profound respect for the real 'otherness' of the other being or ethical group is needed as well as the intimacy of a feeling of identity. But even this is not yet the ultimate stage of possible development....There exists another stage..... which I would like to call a personal connection of fate through the self with selected people . ...It is a relationship with the Self in the other person, with her or his totatily and oneness of opposites. Only love and not mind can understand the other person in this way. This form of love, Jung writes, 'is not transference and it is more primitive, more primeval and more spiritual, than anything we can describe. That upper floor is no more you or I, it means many, including yourself and anybody whose heart you touch. There is no distance, but immediate presence. It is an eternal secret - how shall I ever explain it? (page 32, Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution)

Thich Nhat Hanh has in mind this 'mysterious something that makes any deep real encounter of two human beings possible' when he reminds us:

When you meditate, it is not just for yourself, you do it for the whole society. You seek solutions to your problems not only for yourself, but for all of us. (page 47, Being Peace).

The fact that, at some profound level, we 'inter-are' accounts for how it is possible, according to Von Franz, to mediate conflicts occuring between external parties through an internal reconciliation of opposites. By being able to maintain opposites in a state of dynamic synthesis within oneself, the outside world is brought into harmony.

This capacity for facilitation that seems to come naturally to the Nine can, however, degenerate into compromise and collaborationism . Instead of peace and harmony we have static states in which standoff, indolence and indecisiveness prevail, preventing positive change and creative movement. Let us call the D-quality associated with reconciliation and harmony 'stagnation, compromise and indolence'.

**Cerelict** · 11-24-2014, 11:20 PM

**epheme** · 11-25-2014, 01:45 AM

@silke I get what you're trying to do with the image in the first post, but I don't relate to it. It's more like I feel connected to all those things. Like all those things are a part of me and I'm a part of all those things in an awe inspiring way. I am the very thing that's "bigger" than me. Like, I'm a cosmic dancer or something and that feels joyful and impassioned. Makes me overflow with love.

It's not "I'm so enormously insignificant" but rather "it's so amazing that I'm part of all of this".

**Suz** · 11-25-2014, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by epheme

@silke I get what you're trying to do with the image in the first post, but I don't relate to it. It's more like I feel connected to all those things. Like all those things are a part of me and I'm a part of all those things in an awe inspiring way. I am the very thing that's "bigger" than me. Like, I'm a cosmic dancer or something and that feels joyful and impassioned. Makes me overflow with love.

It's not "I'm so enormously insignificant" but rather "it's so amazing that I'm part of all of this".

I feel exactly the same way.

EDIT: but i do like the idea of threads to characterize each enneatype. Maybe lets not just limit to pictures/photos/videos, but also include discussions on each type.

**suedehead** · 11-25-2014, 03:48 PM

**suedehead** · 11-25-2014, 03:53 PM

**anndelise** · 11-25-2014, 04:25 PM

**Galen** · 11-25-2014, 04:36 PM

**Amber** · 11-25-2014, 04:59 PM

**Amber** · 11-25-2014, 05:05 PM

**Amber** · 11-25-2014, 05:16 PM

“A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.”

“Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else.”

“In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.”

“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”

“You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger.”

“Meditate.
Live purely. Be quiet.
Do your work with mastery.
Like the moon, come out
from behind the clouds!
Shine”

―Gautama Buddha

**Olly From Wally World** · 12-09-2014, 08:11 PM

So I mentioned in some enneagram group that I read a few paragraphs of Naranjo's 9 (and maybe someone else's briefly but I forget if I really did) and I had an image of a person in a portrait with a weaker contour line around them or without a strong outline. Like the painting is lush and maybe even with beautiful scenery and that person is in the background with an outline around them in pencil or something, lol. Some guy says that it's funny because such a portrait for type 9 does exist on some Spanish Website.

He says "It's a metaphor: the person blends with the bench he/she is sitting on and the doves are feeding out of him/her as though he doesn't exist. The paint is called 'conformismo' which may be translated as 'abnegated over-adaptation' or 'resignation'."

My image didn't really include the blending aspect, like how the bench blends into the guy but my impression was that there's a weak boundary or sense of self, as if they are apart of what's there or around them to the point where the individual self isn't too important, hence the 'meh' accedia-like attitude'. With that I could better understand how someone could develop a 'go-with-the-flow, fatalistic response, it's like the world is bigger and more significant than you and you're (somewhat apart of it) so why fight it?

**silke** · 12-19-2014, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by epheme

@silke I get what you're trying to do with the image in the first post, but I don't relate to it. It's more like I feel connected to all those things. Like all those things are a part of me and I'm a part of all those things in an awe inspiring way. I am the very thing that's "bigger" than me. Like, I'm a cosmic dancer or something and that feels joyful and impassioned. Makes me overflow with love. It's not "I'm so enormously insignificant" but rather "it's so amazing that I'm part of all of this".

Originally Posted by Shay

@silke the image you posted is one that I very much relate to...like I am just an ant in a colony going about foraging or performing whatever other menial jobs or roles which might come my way in this world...an ant that can be wiped out so easily such as by a larger entity...just one of the creators many creations...why I ask....why make us play this 'game' called life....is it for the creators interest such as to be studied and experimented on - to be his plaything?...something which he can occasionally watch and care about/or not.

@epheme you might not relate to it but some other 9s will relate as per Shay's response -- it's just that there's more than one way of experiencing any type.
Are there any pictures, quotes, or videos that you feel are more representative of your experience?

**epheme** · 12-19-2014, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by silke

@epheme you might not relate to it but some other 9s will relate as per Shay's response -- it's just that there's more than one way of experiencing any type.
Are there any pictures, quotes, or videos that you feel are more representative of your experience?

I didn't mean to imply that it was inaccurate - I just wanted to add my perspective. It was a valuable input

. One, that I'm sure, resonates with some 9s, it's just not the way I experience E9.

And I will try to remember to post some things in this thread to convey my experience when I get the chance.

**Socionics Is A Cult** · 12-20-2014, 06:38 PM

When I see some of the things in this thread, they don't appeal perhaps because there is something synthetic about them and\or there is something alarming and unbalanced about them.

**epheme** · 12-20-2014, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Subteigh

When I see some of the things in this thread, they don't appeal perhaps because there is something synthetic about them and\or there is something alarming and unbalanced about them.

I agree.

**powerrainbowcrystal** · 12-20-2014, 08:23 PM

no offense but i hate these quotes. i will correct them using truckology:

“A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.”

If a man isn't talking enough then maybe he's just being a coward.

“Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else.”

Saying that doesn't help people who feel alone and like nobody really understands them. You can maybe say that but it's just hot air.

“In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.”

This is bullshit. It's just not true. Even if you blew up planet earth and then gained the powers of levitate and flight you still would have some way of measurement from where you float in relation to Jupiter. Even if objects didn't exist in space there would be some way to measure space itself. I think the deeper meaning of what this quote is trying to say is that labels can be artistically limiting, sometimes you just want to get lost in something and forget what the time is.

“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”

Not true for me. People get burned all the time by my anger. I kinda hate when somebody is clearly being hurtful to OTHERS and then somebody goes "well you are just hurting yourself!" Yeah fucking right that's such a cop-out and they know it.

“You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger.”

No. I will smile in glee as I get my revenge and execute my anger in ways I feel that are self-justified. (or maybe i will forgive and ascend as a higher being- i don't know yet cuz being half-demon is more sexy to the ladies) anger is better than powerlessness/depression - it's like the movie carrie. she was depressed/victimized/powerless and the next step above that is Rage. It's only natural.

Evil and self-hatred are the same thing. An evil person is like destined to get murdered, its like in the script they're setting up for themselves- that's what is so sad about it. and why str8 girls have empathy for THE LOST.

**suedehead** · 12-20-2014, 09:14 PM

Sloth is a vice. I'm ambivalent about the idea of being pleasant or acting like I don't have boundaries, and I don't think that facade represents anything that I feel internally. People that you caricaturize in that way based on a surface impression might not even like you.

**epheme** · 12-21-2014, 02:01 AM

"The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Taka (the Great Spirit), and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us. This is the real peace, and the others are but reflections of this. The second peace is that which is made between two individuals, and the third is that which is made between two nations. But above all you should understand that there can never be peace between nations until there is known that true peace, which, as I have often said, is within the souls of men. "

-Black Elk, Oglala Sioux & Spiritual Leader (1863 - 1950)

__________________________________________________

"What is life?
It is the flash of a firefly in the night.
It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime.
It is the little shadow which runs across
the grass and loses itself in the sunset."

-Crowfoot, Blackfoot warrior and orator (1830 - 1890)

**epheme** · 12-21-2014, 02:24 AM

E9 Disney style

**Amber** · 12-21-2014, 09:49 AM

I am less alarmed now that I see people who self-type as E9 are actually contributing with their own representation of their mom-type instead of solely criticizing and chopping what's already here. It feels more authentic ... less artificial.

**epheme** · 01-03-2015, 10:04 PM

“Everything in the universe is within you. Ask all from yourself.”
― Rumi

**golden** · 01-04-2015, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by starangel

no offense but i hate these quotes. i will correct them using truckology:

“A man is not called wise because he talks and talks again; but if he is peaceful, loving and fearless then he is in truth called wise.”

If a man isn't talking enough then maybe he's just being a coward.

“Nothing ever exists entirely alone; everything is in relation to everything else.”

Saying that doesn't help people who feel alone and like nobody really understands them. You can maybe say that but it's just hot air.

“In the sky, there is no distinction of east and west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true.”

This is bullshit. It's just not true. Even if you blew up planet earth and then gained the powers of levitate and flight you still would have some way of measurement from where you float in relation to Jupiter. Even if objects didn't exist in space there would be some way to measure space itself. I think the deeper meaning of what this quote is trying to say is that labels can be artistically limiting, sometimes you just want to get lost in something and forget what the time is.

“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”

Not true for me. People get burned all the time by my anger. I kinda hate when somebody is clearly being hurtful to OTHERS and then somebody goes "well you are just hurting yourself!" Yeah fucking right that's such a cop-out and they know it.

“You will not be punished for your anger; you will be punished by your anger.”

No. I will smile in glee as I get my revenge and execute my anger in ways I feel that are self-justified. (or maybe i will forgive and ascend as a higher being- i don't know yet cuz being half-demon is more sexy to the ladies) anger is better than powerlessness/depression - it's like the movie carrie. she was depressed/victimized/powerless and the next step above that is Rage. It's only natural.

Evil and self-hatred are the same thing. An evil person is like destined to get murdered, its like in the script they're setting up for themselves- that's what is so sad about it. and why str8 girls have empathy for THE LOST.

Hate me, ok, but what strikes me in what you wrote is you described someone alone and not experiencing connection, and someone depressed, victimized, powerless, and those are states of being that can result from anger directed at the world ... and I think that's the thing that can burn you bc it keeps ppl alone and disconnected, and then whatever or whoever oppressed you or harmed you has sort of won, sometimes.

I'm not saying ppl shouldn't experience their anger, bc what's emotionally worse than being forced to repress your emotions until you're well trained in repression so you can do it all by yourself?

I'm just expressing my narcissism here

, you might conclude, bc I've been trying to figure this stuff out for myself for a while. Anger can be a highly motivating feeling, it leads ppl to stand up for themselves and other people, to set boundaries (say no), to experience who they are, to make things a little more right when someone is wronged.

How to use anger by channeling it into actions that improve my life is what I wanna be better at. I think that's probably the place it can go so I don't go on hurting myself. The anger is still there, but it's changed into something that can lead to new places.

And maybe that idea of action can tie back in to some of the stuff that's said abt E9, like the "indolence" and "indecision" in the OP.

And I don't know that you generally come across as angry, btw. That's not how I see you online, anyhow.

**epheme** · 01-04-2015, 12:44 AM

**silke** · 01-19-2015, 07:14 AM

LII-INTj type 9

**suedehead** · 02-13-2015, 05:47 AM

**Aylen** · 02-13-2015, 05:56 AM

@suedehead I saw a panther's eyes (just like your image) earlier today when I was listening to a song with my eyes closed. It was pretty clear and lasted awhile. After I saw him I was speeding through a dark tunnel that had flashes of blue lights on either side of me. Like a time lapse video. Anyway, I had my inner eyes locked on him. Cool synch...

**Hays** · 02-13-2015, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by silke

Alpha NT-type 9

Brilliant - nearly made me cry, maybe I am enneagram 9, anyway I better go down a couple of my menopausal tablets now.

**silke** · 03-29-2015, 05:39 AM

Cyntoia Brown - 9 so/sx, likely Ti-LSI

**marooned** · 03-29-2015, 09:03 AM

aw2.JPG

meh.JPG

grr2.jpg

i know the last one doesn't seem particularly nine-ish... but it's the way he fights, as though he is one with everything and the literal essence of his surroundings... it's actually a rather nature-focused picture; he fights with the forces of nature around him. i mean after all, if one becomes a healthy representative of their type, they are no longer limited by the type's issues and so they can be godlike... and if necessary act effectively in ways that wouldn't really be considered characteristic of the core type (i.e. nine and fighting/confronting).

**Aylen** · 03-29-2015, 04:47 PM

Watched some videos, courtesy of a friend (I owe you one) and I think Wendy James may be a sx first, or possibly second, 9, sp last. Could be IEI-Fe.

Edit: IEI-Fe sx/so 9 is what I am thinking for now.

**marooned** · 03-29-2015, 06:21 PM

marilyn from 'the divide'

the_divide_rivers_of_grue-2.jpg rosanna-arquette-as-marilyn-in-the-divide.jpg THE DIVIDE _14_.jpg the-divide-4.jpg

--

dena riley:
http://www.aetv.com/the-killer-speak...lf-as-a-victim

**marooned** · 03-29-2015, 07:04 PM

**marooned** · 04-05-2015, 07:18 PM

**Amber** · 04-07-2015, 11:45 AM

Some parts of this article reminded me of the essence of E9. http://www.culturemachine.net/index....e/view/242/223

Second, we consider the ways in which Latour and Foucault deal with the subject, and its relations to identity.In particular, we note that underpinning both these thinkers' treatments is a view of the human (but also, in Latour, of the non-human) as at once fixed and fixable, but also fluid and 'fluidable': whereas for Latour the emphasis that is placed upon fixability and fluidity is allowed de jure, for Foucault fluidity has a de facto status which 'prompts' the various techniques and technologies of self (fixity).We suggest that neither of these approaches is satisfactory, for the fluid-ised self/identity is never knowable, except as 'in-process', and the fixed subject/identity is too knowable - a 'mere' cipher for a network or assemblage (Latour) or discursive formation (Foucault).We suggest that self/identity is most interesting at those points of transition from fluidity to fixity and vice versa.

3.3. Fluidity and fixity

For Foucault then, 'soi' has an irreducible fluidity ('multiplicité') that is the 'object' of discipline, knowledge, governmentality, and so forth.It is always on the verge of escaping the techniques and technologies which are deployed in power/knowledge networks - of becoming 'deterritorialised', as Deleuze and Guattari (e.g. 1988) put it.We may say that there is an 'essential potential' (de facto) in such fluidity.In contrast, for Latour, the actant is fixed (even as it is 'in process') in the nexus of a network (cf Michael, 1996).Any change is contingent upon other shifts in the network: there is a 'contingent potential' for fluidity - an in principle (de jure) movement into a deterritorialised or nomadic or rhizomic state.Or rather, there is a jump into another fixed state - another role within a reconfigured network.Where for Foucault there is always the fluidity of 'soi' lingering beneath the surface of an 'identity', for Latour there are only other potential actant-roles.
If these characterisations hold water, an interesting issue emerges.The fluid 'soi' can never be grasped - in its essence it is ungraspable, and ungraspability is its essence.In contrast, the role that Latour unravels is only too graspable: it ends up being a mere cipher for the network as a whole - it is wholly determined.Of course, various efforts have been made to overcome this model of the actor-actant (e.g. Mol and Law, 1994), and generalising beyond the human to the nonhuman, of the entity.More particularly, the singularity and territoriality of the actants that inhabit Latourian networks are feasible only because the network is itself singular.As Star (1991; Bowker and Star, 1999) points out, we all straddle multiple networks, and engage with them to varying degrees of centrality and marginality.These networks rub up against each other and rather like two blocks of ice in close contact, the pressure yields fluid.So, rather than look for fluidity as grounded in the essence of the self, we suggest that given that humans (and nonhumans, for that matter) are always relational, always between networks, then they are always on the verge of such fluidity (and this obviously links up to those moments of innovation captured in the term 'technique'). (...)

Interestingly, then, although we started out by criticising Foucault and Latour for their over-emphases on fluidity and fixity respectively, it is possible to move to a rapprochement between these two, and such a move reveals that what is crucial is the point of transition between the fluid and the fixed.Foucault and Latour are like two pieces of a puzzle waiting to be joined.