I just wanted to say: If a man doesn't regard rape as something inherently desirable, why would he first think of it when he sees an attractive woman? I assume most men see sex as something very desirable, but not if it involves rape to have it.Originally Posted by point
If malice or sadism is involved, I'd say that rape is more important than sex in that situation (and is therefore an end in itself).
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
What is involved in the desire to rape if it's not malice or sadism? There's gotta be a reason.
How do you know this? That has been my question all along. Mikemex makes a similar claim. How did you reach this conclusion?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Well, I said it: to have sex. But then, it's not the desire to rape, but the desire to have sex (through rape). Hence I said it's the means to an end. Most people acknowledge that it's a crime and use other "methods". But if those don't work or if the person is not willing to act accordingly (while they still want sex), they resort to rape.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
So fear of rejection. Control.
Still quite a few?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Yep I believe that´s it.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I disagree, most rape occurences are not about the above. Yes to serial rapist, no to the most prevalent rape occurences, but let's agree to disagree.
Why don't you accept "to have sex" as a valid reason for rape?
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
No, that's why my last twenty posts made the distinction between sexual deviance, sexual fantasies etc within consent and anything outside of consent.
That's why there was a post above that made the distinction between thinking about rape (colloqual) and thinking about rape (actually).
I feel like i'm talking to walls, baby giraffe out.
Bad faith?
Why not masturbate? Violation of another human being generally involves something else.
Psychologically it's been well analyzed that people don't rape just to have sex. If you profiled all the rapists in jail, "To have sex" gets really really low on the list of reasons to rape.
Prove to me that "to have sex" is actually the reason people rape? It's abundantly evident in all the profiles of rapists and sexual sadists that sex is not their primary motivator.
Gona go to a typical aggregate report of studies:
http://sapac.umich.edu/article/196
Sex offenders are overwhelmingly male, typically have access to consensual sex, and were not sexually or physically abused as children.
Reports on rapist profiles.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/F...em-3159973.php
Like I've already said: If people rape and are NOT interested in the sex itself, it just means that rape is the end itself. I don't know why rapists find it desirable, but I think the reasons will be very individual. What matters is that the "goal" (whatever that is) can not be achieved without rape.
I said it's one reason and not THE reason. But what about the other way around? Can you completely eliminate the possibility of someone raping another person just for sex? I don't think so.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
Sure we can't eliminate the reason but it's like really low on the list of reasons, since well hand, hooker, socializing all so much easier.
Partly about motivations behind rape: http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/articles/rapefeat.html
Excerpt:
Michael Kimmel is a sociologist at the State University of New York who has received international recognition for his work on men and masculinity. He says violent men often view their actions as revenge or retaliation. "They say, women have power over me because they're beautiful and sexual and I want them and they elicit that and I feel powerless," he says. "Just listen for a minute to the way in which we describe women's beauty and sexuality. We describe it as a violence against us. She is a knock-out, a bomb-shell, dressed to kill, a femme fatale, stunning, ravishing. I mean all of these are words of violence against us. It's like, wow, she knocked me out. So the violence then, or the aggression or the sexual violence is often a way to retaliate."
Philip is a 29-year-old man even prison workers at the Utah State Prison say is a charmer. He is serving time for sexually abusing his step-daughter. He says anger over a divorce led to his crime. "I wasn't thinking about her whatsoever, just she was there," he says. "Somebody to vent my anger, my frustrations, and my anxieties and pain. I didn't think about her, and if you ask the majority of people who are here on this same crime, they would tell you probably the same thing. They didn't really think. They just want somebody to vent their anger out on. A lot of people who do sex crimes, do these crimes out of anger. Now sex and anger go hand in hand."
Roby sees several kinds of sex offenders. Those, like Philip, for whom sexual assault is an extension of rage; those who have a need to control of have power over their victims; and those who derive sexual pleasure out of inflicting pain on others. Many of the rapists he's worked with also seem to have been motivated by sex. "Most of the individuals that I've worked with saw having sex with a woman as basically their final validation of them being a man. So they would decide prior to the time they went out and actually committed the rape that they were going to be sexually involved with some woman," he says. "The woman no longer really had a choice to make in that kind of relationship, but I don't think they started out saying what I want to do is to degrade or humiliate some other individual."
Approximately 25-26 percent of the inmate population at the Utah State Prison are sex offenders. Dr. Ron Sanchez is the supervising psychologist who works with them. "I think sex is part of it. I think it's a vehicle for their aggression. There again, it's not just about sex. Many of these individuals, at least on the surface, have relationships with women and are having sex on a regular basis, but for some reason have chosen to go out victimize people in this fashion."
Since the 1970s when Susan Brownmiller published her ground breaking book, "Against our Will," rape has been viewed as a crime of control and violence. But Michael Ghiglieri disagrees. He says men may use violence and force as a tool, but what they're after is sex. "That whole power and control thing as an end in itself is a myth. Power and control is used as an instrument to accomplish a sexual event with an unwilling victim. And to leave out that sexual event is to completely forget what the crime was, which was a copulation was stolen from a woman against her will. To take the motive out of the actual definition is crazy. It essentially places women in a place where they no longer understand the motive of the rapist. It's an immense disservice to women."
While some feminists are adamant that rape is not about sex, Jane Caputi, a professor of American Studies at the University of New Mexico, claims it's specious to separate violence and sex. "I would disagree with some of the early feminists who would say rape is a crime of violence, not a crime of sex. Because, unfortunately, in this culture sex is completely interfused with violence, with notions of dominance and subordination. Our gender roles are constructed so we have these two genders, masculine and feminine, that are defined by one being powerful and one being powerless. So, powerlessness and power themselves become eroticized."
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
why not both? imo thoughts of sex would cross most men's minds when seeing an attractive woman in a mini-skirt. it is when they feel rejected, that now she's inaccessible to them, that those thoughts turn into "she actually wants it" and even "she deserves it". in the link posted by @Ananke that's exactly how it went for several guys. thoughts of having consensual sex with a desirable female, when curbed, turning into thoughts of still going through with it and justifications of these actions.
I don't think most men think about rape, not even the ones on reddit... A lot of the guys in that link were either
- men with little experience in women
- men who wanted sex so much they felt entitled
- men who's friends pressured them to have sex
So peer pressure, entitlement and lack of experience were triggers, it seems to me.
I never understood what people meant about "rape culture" but that thread made me think there is one. I don't know what others mean by rape culture, but a LOT of those rapes could have been prevented it seems, if the guy knew a bit more about women and about himself and about what rape really is and does.
I found the original thread also :http://www.reddit.com/r/MuseumOfRedd...rapist_thread/
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote