How normal is to think about rape?

[mu4]

http://jezebel.com/5929544/rapists-e...-should-listen

Interesting link. It does show a varied response from rapists to their crime as well.

[Suz]

Mmmmmmm. I definitely have some thoughts and good points to share:

First and foremost I do not think Point should be a voice for how much time thinking about rape is too much. As a man, automatically his worry of rape is less than that of a woman because statistically it is much more unlikely
for him to get raped.

As a woman who has been threatened several times in public places I do not think you can ever worry about rape too much unless it is interfering with your ability to actually leave your home. Almost every time I am in a place by myself and there are strange men about the thought crosses my mind. It happens less often than when I am in very public places however that strain of thought and worry
is still there, especially when I am leaving and walking through a parking garage alone.

Bird, i resonate with you on this. The situation you described is truly frightening and i'm so glad you were able to get out of there safely, if shaken up a bit.

I personally also am scared of rape and keep that possibility in the back of my mind when going about my day and planning or choosing my activities/time. When I was younger, from time to time, I did occasionally find myself alone in sketchy settings where I felt uneasy, and my "unsafe" antenna going off like crazy (well admittedly even a couple times recently in the past 6 months, now that i think about it!); thankfully I never encountered anything quite like your situation, but over time, I've become more conscientious, even for minor things, e.g. I'll lock my office door from the inside once everyone leaves, if I'm staying late at work; I'll plan to take a well-frequented corridor to get to my car, etc. If i end up needing to walk a distance in a deserted place and i dont feel safe, I'll take out my cell phone, and either make a real call to a loved one or even just pretend to make a call and talk to someone (either way, remaining hypervigilant about surroundings). The latter, especially when your cell phone battery is drained. It's a little bit of a deterrent.

Be safe, girls!

[FDG]

But Ref, the thread asked for it. The irony is almost funny.

So trolling = rape?

[anndelise]

There's a pretty big and distinct difference between intrusive thoughts/fantasies about sticking your dick into a warm wet hole or spewing orgasms,
Vs intrusive thoughts/fantasies about physically overpowering a person who's fighting back.

You can have the former without the latter. (Desire for sex/orgasm.)
The latter without the former. (Desire to win a physical power struggle.)
And the former in conjuction with the latter. (Desire to win a physical power struggle in conjuction with sex/orgasm as the goal or as the tool to achieve the power win.)

We all might have the former at times.
We all might have the latter, too. Such as intrusive images of slapping someone, pushing them away, hitting stupidity over the head with a 2x4, macing someone, having them towed away in cuffs by cops, etc.
These are passive/reactive mental images to a quick natural stimulus. Quickly stimulated and quickly passed over.

But the desire to physically overpower an unconsenting person, in conjunction with sex/orgasm is a more complex fantasy "intrusive thought". Rape isn't (usually) about the sex, it's about the power-over. And yeah, i think there might be something off about a guy who sees a flash of legs and immediately starts fantasizing about gaining unconsenting, physical power over the owner of said legs. As if other people are his slaves/toys, at the whims of his Will.

But maybe he has such violent thoughts because he's pissed off that his body is under the control of outside forces like visual flashes of legs. If he feels like he's at the constant whim of his dick, and that he has no control over his own body/mind because of his dick, then perhaps a natural reaction might be to "intrusively imagine" lashing out at the person who he perceives IS "controlling" his body/mind through their "control of" his dick.

[mu4]

So trolling = rape?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hs-and-sadists

Here a recent article.

Psychologically Trolls aren't that different than the most calculated of rapists.

[FDG]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hs-and-sadists

Here a recent article.

Psychologically Trolls aren't that different than the most calculated of rapists.

Yeah, let's throw them in prison as a preventive measure then.

[Suz]

But maybe he has such violent thoughts because he's pissed off that his body is under the control of outside forces like visual flashes of legs. If he feels like he's at the constant whim of his dick, and that he has no control over his own body/mind because of his dick, then perhaps a natural reaction might be to "intrusively imagine" lashing out at the person who he perceives IS "controlling" his body/mind through their "control of" his dick.

sounds almost schizophrenic...

[Joy]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...hs-and-sadists

Here a recent article.

Having lived with one I will concur.

[mu4]

Yeah, let's throw them in prison as a preventive measure then.

Unfortunately it's not possible to do that, but you can bring the banhammer down and make their life no fun where they're trolling.

[FDG]

Unfortunately it's not possible to do that, but you can bring the banhammer down and make their life no fun where they're trolling.

For the record, your link says that only people whose favourite activity is trolling actually show narc-psycho traits...

[mu4]

For the record, your link says that only people whose favourite activity is trolling actually show narc-psycho traits...

Yep, there are people who's favorite activity is trolling. Trolling is like a delicacy for trolls, they can do many normal things too while they bide their time.

[InvisibleJim]

So trolling = rape?

You need to stop your trolling thoughts and questioning of the cozy consensus Fabio.

If you continue to think these devilish things and act out like this you will be demodded or even banned.

By the definition applied across this world class community it is known that upwards of 101% of thoughts are now rape, or rape related.

These heros and their viewpoints have nothing to do with their personal issues of a few individuals who they have managed to piss off.

[Reficulris]

You need to stop your trolling thoughts and questioning of the cozy consensus Fabio.

If you continue to think these devilish things and act out like this you will be demodded or even banned.

By the definition applied across this world class community it is known that upwards of 101% of thoughts are now rape, or rape related.

These heros and their viewpoints have nothing to do with their personal issues of a few individuals who they have managed to piss off.

Well, it's because we here are all thinking so much about rape that we make up for all the non-rape thinkers outside of the forum

in george orwell style: thinkrape!

[InvisibleJim]

Well, it's because we here are all thinking so much about rape that we make up for all the non-rape thinkers outside of the forum

in george orwell style: thinkrape!

The thinkrape is real.

No longer must a man look at a woman to commit rape, now he need only think it.

In other news, despite this forum being a harassment free bastion of light, other forums show the true face of harassment in our very midst!!

How can people put up with this level of filth, this debauchery! Oh the humanity.

[ashlesha]

i think enough people here have talked about how rape or the fear of rape affects or has affected their real lives to stop pretending it only exists as a topic of discussion on the internet. im sure thats true for some people but not all or even most and its kind of trashy to dismiss their very real concerns in order to steer an internet discussion in the direction you want.

[Kim]

So trolling = rape?

No, this was about victim blaming. The severity is different, but the mindset is the same.

[mu4]

Well, it's because we here are all thinking so much about rape that we make up for all the non-rape thinkers outside of the forum

in george orwell style: thinkrape!

I think I said very clearly before that thoughts aren't crimes, they're just thoughts.

People are allowed to pretty much think whatever they want and such, I mean who doesn't have "intrusive thoughts" or whatever. Heck, I actively fantasize about fun violent stuff and play video games and such. The solution to dealing with intrusive thoughts is maybe proper entertainment, not making women wear oppressive clothing or some other authoritarian standards of morality.

Frankly I don't care what ppl think as long as their actions don't bring harm to people around me.

Take Jim for example, he says a lot of crap about the mods, about me about whatever, it's all in good fun or something. It's his jolly good time, it doesn't really harm anyone around me too much although it might annoy me a little bit. I figure the amount of his life I'm wasting and the amount of time he's not spending trolling someone else or another forum is worth the mild annoyance his presence brings. Also it's kinda of fun watching a operator like him work a forum, there's a art to it and he's pretty good at it. This is like the longest self-pleasuring he's probably ever gave to himself since on every other forum prior to this, he's been perma-banned eventually. When he finally gets banned, or maybe not(wow the frustration), he's probably going to get off spectacularly.

[FDG]

No, this was about victim blaming. The severity is different, but the mindset is the same.

So what´s the deal? Imprisonment?

[Kim]

So what´s the deal? Imprisonment?

No deal. I was just pointing out the irony, that´s all.

[Reficulris]

I think I said very clearly before that thoughts aren't crimes, they're just thoughts.

People are allowed to pretty much think whatever they want and such, I mean who doesn't have "intrusive thoughts" or whatever. Heck, I actively fantasize about fun violent stuff and play video games and such. The solution to dealing with intrusive thoughts is maybe proper entertainment, not making women wear oppressive clothing or some other authoritarian standards of morality.

Frankly I don't care what ppl think as long as their actions don't bring harm to people around me.

Take Jim for example, he says a lot of crap about the mods, about me about whatever, it's all in good fun or something. It's his jolly good time, it doesn't really harm anyone around me too much although it might annoy me a little bit. I figure the amount of his life I'm wasting and the amount of time he's not spending trolling someone else or another forum is worth the mild annoyance his presence brings. Also it's kinda of fun watching a operator like him work a forum, there's a art to it and he's pretty good at it. This is like the longest self-pleasuring he's probably ever gave to himself since on every other forum prior to this, he's been perma-banned eventually. When he finally gets banned, or maybe not(wow the frustration), he's probably going to get off spectacularly.

My post above was meant in good natured tongue in cheek humor, I agree with the idea that thoughts or opinions on and of themselves are not really harmfull in any way.
@lungs: there's two types of "thinking about rape" and two associated discussions.

the first is "how does agressive fantasies translate into rape"

the second is "how concerned are women about their safety concerning sexual preditors".

To the first the answer is imho people fantasize about a lot of stuff, and it usually does not indicate higher likelyhood of acting on them. Hence, the population "thinks about rape" either more than people think (if harmless personal fantasies are included) or less about rape (if you only count actual wannabe rapists).

To the second the answer is "sadly women have very good and very real reasons to think about their sexual safety, on a scale of "this affects my everyday life" to "i occasionally feel threatened".

The matter gets complicated when people discuss both subjects simultaniously, where the fantesizing about something gets used as either a causal link to rape, or as an excuse for rape. They are unrelated, people have the agency to manage their behaviour, and if not should get either treated or encarcerated as with all dangerously inclined individuals, but for thinking or fantesizing, they should not.

I read @InvisibleJim 's remarks as well as my own joke about thinkrape as objecting against the idea that thinking or fantasizing about something should be considerd amoral or illegal. Ever person has a right to his own mind imho. What behaviour gets punished in society however is less personal and more interpersonal and since we try to be less barbaric than we once were we don't condone acts of violence against anyone, including rape. I do agree with jim, that for a forum concerned with a cognitive theory, there seems to be an awefull lot of discussion of gender issues and sexual abuse. This is not bad persé, but it's not exactly representative for the ammount of discussion these subjects get in real life (again, which might be a good thing).

[ashlesha]

sorry, but can somebody point me to where it was implied that thinking about rape is immoral? i can't find it.

[InvisibleJim]

there's two types of "thinking about rape" and two associated discussions.

the first is "how does agressive fantasies translate into rape"

the second is "how concerned are women about their safety concerning sexual preditors".

To the first the answer is imho people fantasize about a lot of stuff, and it usually does not indicate higher likelyhood of acting on them. Hence, the population "thinks about rape" either more than people think (if harmless personal fantasies are included) or less about rape (if you only count actual wannabe rapists).

To the second the answer is "sadly women have very good and very real reasons to think about their sexual safety, on a scale of "this affects my everyday life" to "i occasionally feel threatened".

I think that as the mass media has became more sensationalist and pervasive the fear of things like rape, pedophilia, and terrorism has altered the mind of people to be more conscious of these issues.

This has had the benefit of reducing these issues to a lesser level; indeed not so long ago the world was worse. However, now the rate of change has now plateaued leading to a bundle of ill thought out debates and discussions, with a bunch of people saying how horrible it is and a bunch of people shrugging and saying 'I don't know what you want me to do about this': It's just wheels spinning but the vehicle isn't moving.

[Reficulris]

sorry, but can somebody point me to where it was implied that thinking about rape is immoral? i can't find it.

It's nowhere said, but it's at least implied by the idea of "intrusive thoughts" and the idea that thinking of rape, in and of itself, would indicate the need of treatment (a few posts at the beginning of the thread stated this).

i'd say that individuals who have a normal level of self control should be fine wether or not they are "thinking of rape". The thinking of rape itself, as stated, is not a reason for treatment or moral outrage, there's plenty of people who find consenting partners to play out sexual fantasies that are quite far out. To make those people sick or criminal would be a problem.



also, although there is a kind of rape that's indeed linked to addiction to powerstruggles and violent tendencies, a LOT of rape is the transkar variant, where it's a spouse, family member, friend, drunk college kid etc etc who forces himself upon someone. I'd be comfortable stating that those types of sexual abuse, rarely, have to do with fantasies and more with fuckers not being able to manage their "completely normal" sex drives. So, in short, sexual deviancy does not a rapist make. Thinking naughty thoughts does not a rapist make. But raping is far more insidious than that. I think by linking it to sexual fantasies, the idea gets shoved into the "wierd people" corner, where it's actually usually otherwise totally unasuming normal well adjusted people who rape. That is kinda the problem.

So again, i play the bad faith card; making rape about miniskirts, sexual fantasies and or deranged people ignores the fact that rape is prevalent and banal rather than outlandish. That's a scary thought that we just might not be able to except.
@mikemex; what i'm kinda saying is that even if a chick dresses only in baggy clothes, is unattractive and burps like a guy she still has a rather high chance of being raped by her non-rape-fantasy having surroundings....

[ashlesha]

It's nowhere said, but it's at least implied by the idea of "intrusive thoughts" and the idea that thinking of rape, in and of itself, would indicate the need of treatment (a few posts at the beginning of the thread stated this).

oh yeah, that.

also, although there is a kind of rape that's indeed linked to addiction to powerstruggles and violent tendencies, a LOT of rape is the transkar variant, where it's a spouse, family member, friend, drunk college kid etc etc who forces himself upon someone. I'd be comfortable stating that those types of sexual abuse, rarely, have to do with fantasies and more with fuckers not being able to manage their "completely normal" sex drives. So, in short, sexual deviancy does not a rapist make. Thinking naughty thoughts does not a rapist make. But raping is far more insidious than that. I think by linking it to sexual fantasies, the idea gets shoved into the "wierd people" corner, where it's actually usually otherwise totally unasuming normal well adjusted people who rape. That is kinda the problem.

So again, i play the bad faith card; making rape about miniskirts, sexual fantasies and or deranged people ignores the fact that rape is prevalent and banal rather than outlandish. That's a scary thought that we just might not be able to except.
@mikemex; what i'm kinda saying is that even if a chick dresses only in baggy clothes, is unattractive and burps like a guy she still has a rather high chance of being raped by her non-rape-fantasy having surroundings....

yesyesyesyesyesyes. and then ppl think its not rape because nobody was covered in blood or found crawling out of an alley.

[Kim]

To be clear, the my treatment comment was about men who see a woman in a mini skirt and have thoughts of raping her that could potentially lead to actually raping her (since our discussion was about the potential of provocative clothing to lead to rape). I am still curious about how many men see a woman in a mini skirt and think *I want to rape her* (vs. *I want to have sex with her*).

[Aylen]

It's nowhere said, but it's at least implied by the idea of "intrusive thoughts" and the idea that thinking of rape, in and of itself, would indicate the need of treatment (a few posts at the beginning of the thread stated this).

I was one of the people who said intrusive thoughts that become an obsession may require therapy and not just rape thoughts. Any intrusive thoughts that interfere with your life can be treated, hopefully. I had intrusive thoughts for years before I went to therapy and found out where they were coming from. I have shared that with you before and won't go into it now.

I have had the "being raped fantasy" that I think you are talking about. I have never had the raping another fantasy though. It just isn't something I would consider and it is a turn off. I have never had the rape fantasy and included being physically harmed, traumatized, torn, ripped, bleeding or someone bashing my head in either, so in reality, for me, it was not a rape fantasy at all. Just a fantasy of control.

[Reficulris]

To be clear, the my treatment comment was about men who see a woman in a mini skirt and have thoughts of raping her that could potentially lead to actually raping her (since our discussion was about the potential of provocative clothing to lead to rape). I am still curious about how many men see a woman in a mini skirt and think *I want to rape her* (vs. *I want to have sex with her*).

Rape is a legal term, it should not be used in this case

If you're question is "how many guys see a woman in a miniskirt and think "i want to violently dominate her and have sex with her" i think that's quite a few. For me myself i'd say there's never the thought "I want to have sex" cuz that's kinda clinical, there will be associations to how what where when and those potentially could include "pressing her against a couch and having sex while she struggles". I do have the policy to not have sex without a safeword because of that, which is the norm when these kind of things are included in sexlife, and will usually do both discussion of bounderies before having sex and aftercare (that is making sure all boundaries where respected and someone leaves satisfied rather than defiled). Also i'd say in my experiences there's a fair amount of women who have fantasies about participating in such a fantasy WITHIN CONSENT AND SAFETY. Because of that, and the other points about freedom of thought (but not necessarily behaviour) i disagree that thinking about rape is either imoral or sick.


I don't think guys usually think "I want to rape her and go to jail". The majority of rapists will not admit to themselves they raped. They will frame it as them being seduced or lead on and the woman woefully blaming them afterwards. Rapists are often in profound denial.

[Reficulris]

I was one of the people who said intrusive thoughts that become an obsession may require therapy and not just rape thoughts. Any intrusive thoughts that interfere with your life can be treated, hopefully. I had intrusive thoughts for years before I went to therapy and found out where they were coming from. I have shared that with you before and won't go into it now.

I have had the "being raped fantasy" that I think you are talking about. I have never had the raping another fantasy though. It just isn't something I would consider and it is a turn off. I have never had the rape fantasy and included being physically harmed, traumatized, torn, ripped, bleeding or someone bashing my head in either, so in reality, for me, it was not a rape fantasy at all. Just a fantasy of control.

I agree on that. I didn't meant your post specifically nor do i think that intrusive thoughts should go untreated. It's just that sexual fantasies, when properly gated behind self control are not necessarily evil nor necessarily intrusive thoughts.

I didn't mean to disagree with your statement, more with the unnuanced version that kim posted above (and was implied by other posters) that sexual deviancy itself is a causal or huge indicator for likelyhood or actual rape.

[mu4]

I have had the "being raped fantasy" that I think you are talking about. I have never had the raping another fantasy though. It just isn't something I would consider and it is a turn off. I have never had the rape fantasy and included being physically harmed, traumatized, torn, ripped, bleeding or someone bashing my head in either, so in reality, for me, it was not a rape fantasy at all. Just a fantasy of control.

Rape is more about control vs sex. This is actually many of the "sex" reasons for rape really don't make sense. Putting people in oppressive dress code is also about control, in many ways both feed to the same desire.

[Reficulris]

Rape is more about control vs sex.

No, rape is about forcing sex upon without consent.

you can have a asymetric control sex even without it being rape
you can have rape without their being real asymetrical control (as in the transkar case, or guys who suddenly stick their thumbs up a womans ass during sex etc)
you can have rape without the problematic obsessive control fantasies that have been mentioned above

Really, it's easy to rape, not that much required, just you, someone else who doesn't want to have sex with you, and sexual conduct which actually crosses the body boundary (otherwise it's "just" sexual haressment).

edit: aw you edited..

I still don't agree necessarily, i think some rape, esp the raping strangers in a park variant is like that. but the majority of rape is domestic rape or rape by aquaintances. It's usually NOT the screaming bleeding struggling variant but more the "i'll just lie here and take it because the social concequences of castrating this guy are too much to bear" variant which leads to the "i'll not report it cuz it'll hurt my parents/spouse/friends/etc and or nobody will believe me.

The type of rape you discuss is the least prevalent form of sexual abuse, being scared of people on the streets is less sensical than being afraid of your friends' friends or your uncles or your ministers.... Still, it's never a bad idea to grab a pepperspray, not because without it'd be your fault you get raped if you didn't but because spraying some guy with the stuff just seems karmicly right! (i don't advocate guns, for however bad rape is, killing someone is kinda the end....)

[mu4]

To be clear, the my treatment comment was about men who see a woman in a mini skirt and have thoughts of raping her that could potentially lead to actually raping her (since our discussion was about the potential of provocative clothing to lead to rape). I am still curious about how many men see a woman in a mini skirt and think *I want to rape her* (vs. *I want to have sex with her*).

The two thing that turns me on the most about women is when they stand up to someone and protect them, instant sex thoughts. The other thing is when they're like genuinely kind and nice to people(not including myself), because being nice to me I often find means they want something from me.

Third thing is "Faye Wong", but that's sort of a universal mover of those thoughts.

I also think it is perhaps of a different nature to have fantasies of whatever sort against real people they encounter in day to day life vs imaginary individuals which are constructed as objects to fantasize about.

[mu4]

No, rape is about forcing sex upon without consent.

you can have a asymetric control sex even without it being rape
you can have rape without their being real asymetrical control (as in the transkar case, or guys who suddenly stick their thumbs up a womans ass during sex etc)
you can have rape without the problematic obsessive control fantasies that have been mentioned above

Really, it's easy to rape, not that much required, just you, someone else who doesn't want to have sex with you, and sexual conduct which actually crosses the body boundary (otherwise it's "just" sexual haressment).

What you're talking about is control.

Forcing sex is control.

[Pa3s]

I am still curious about how many men see a woman in a mini skirt and think *I want to rape her* (vs. *I want to have sex with her*).

As we have discussed in an other thread before, I think it depends on whether rape is an end in itself or not. I believe the vast majority of men (who favor consensual sex) would instinctively think of sex rather than rape. Simply because rape would then be nothing more than a means to have sex.

[Aylen]

Rape is more about control vs sex. This is actually many of the "sex" reasons for rape really don't make sense. Putting people in oppressive dress code is also about control, in many ways both feed to the same desire.

I don't think the reason people rape is just about control but I have personal experience and years of therapy to base my opinion on. Do you? It is probably way more complex than that and my fantasy is about giving up control willingly. I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

[mu4]

I still don't agree necessarily, i think some rape, esp the raping strangers in a park variant is like that. but the majority of rape is domestic rape or rape by aquaintances. It's usually NOT the screaming bleeding struggling variant but more the "i'll just lie here and take it because the social concequences of castrating this guy are too much to bear" variant which leads to the "i'll not report it cuz it'll hurt my parents/spouse/friends/etc and or nobody will believe me.

The type of rape you discuss is the least prevalent form of sexual abuse, being scared of people on the streets is less sensical than being afraid of your friends' friends or your uncles or your ministers.... Still, it's never a bad idea to grab a pepperspray, not because without it'd be your fault you get raped if you didn't but because spraying some guy with the stuff just seems karmicly right! (i don't advocate guns, for however bad rape is, killing someone is kinda the end....)

This is still control you're talking about. Most long term rape is date/friends/boyfriends/family/authoritative figures.

Even something like peer-pressure rape where a bunch of friends goad a person to have sex with a unconscious individual, the control dynamic exists. In this instance the dynamic is multi-layered.

There are many situations where control is necessary and important practical aspect of life, however this control can often be used to abuse as well.

[Reficulris]

What you're talking about is control.

Forcing sex is control.

you are misunderstanding, you say that it is ABOUT control, it's usually not. It's about sex. They do TAKE control, or assume consent, but it's not ABOUT control in the majority of rape cases.

A father who rapes his daughter is not floating to the idea of forcing her struggling and screaming, I'd say the usual conduct of such a person would be to gently lie down besides her and make bad love like he does with his wife. this is NOT about control.
A minister who forces a young boy to perform falatio is getting his needs met, this CAN be about control, but it could be through guilt tripping someone too, gently and without force... this is not neceralily about control

the list could be longer but im kinda getting queasy by thinking up these scenario's.

However, your statements are correct for stranger rapists/serial rapists, not for drunk rapers (colleges kids who rape sleeping women), not for date rapers necessarily, not for most domestic rape (which is usually the guy wanting sex and the women not wanting it and him taking it, it USES control, but it's not ABOUT control). etc etc etc. If you cum in your girlfriend even though she asks you not to this is not necessarily ABOUT control (although, in transkars case it was about hurting)...

[mu4]

Simply because rape would then be nothing more than a means to have sex.

And why would they rape? Malice, sadism, fear of rejection? Why use this tool?

[Reficulris]

This is still control you're talking about. Most long term rape is date/friends/boyfriends/family/authoritative figures.

Even something like peer-pressure rape where a bunch of friends goad a person to have sex with a unconscious individual, the control dynamic exists. In this instance the dynamic is multi-layered.

There are many situations where control is necessary and important practical aspect of life, however this control can often be used to abuse as well.

you misunderstand the dymanic of control being there with "it being about control". Or, i misread your statement about "it being about control" if you mean control is there than it's obviously true (and a trueism).

If you mean it's about control being the CORE motivator than it's just a generalization that makes something which is imensely complicated overly simiplistic.

[mu4]

you are misunderstanding, you say that it is ABOUT control, it's usually not. It's about sex. They do TAKE control, or assume consent, but it's not ABOUT control in the majority of rape cases.

A father who rapes his daughter is not floating to the idea of forcing her struggling and screaming, I'd say the usual conduct of such a person would be to gently lie down besides her and make bad love like he does with his wife. this is NOT about control.
A minister who forces a young boy to perform falatio is getting his needs met, this CAN be about control, but it could be through guilt tripping someone too, gently and without force... this is not neceralily about control

the list could be longer but im kinda getting queasy by thinking up these scenario's.

However, your statements are correct for stranger rapists/serial rapists, not for drunk rapers (colleges kids who rape sleeping women), not for date rapers necessarily, not for most domestic rape (which is usually the guy wanting sex and the women not wanting it and him taking it, it USES control, but it's not ABOUT control). etc etc etc. If you cum in your girlfriend even though she asks you not to this is not necessarily ABOUT control (although, in transkars case it was about hurting)...

This is all about control, I'm not sure if your understanding of the word right. These control issues may be indirect, it could be low-self-esteem, fear of rejection and many many other self-control dialogues which rapists can engage in. The victim may just be a mean for them to assert control over some fear they have. Don't think control is just about control over another individual, there are multiple levels of control issues which people have.

[mu4]

you misunderstand the dymanic of control being there with "it being about control". Or, i misread your statement about "it being about control" if you mean control is there than it's obviously true (and a trueism).

If you mean it's about control being the CORE motivator than it's just a generalization that makes something which is imensely complicated overly simiplistic.

Studying this, basically everyone has told me that control is the core motivation.

End of the day it's about non-consent. And non-consent means that control lies firmly in the hand of the rapist and out of the hands of the victim. It could be within a very complicated scenario, but the experience is dictated by non-consent which explicitly means the removal of agency(involuntarily) from the victim and assertion of control by the rapist.

It is technically and motivation-ally explicit.

Sex is the method of violation(and it is one of those primal things which drives these violent expressions).