She revolutionized the music industry by being the first woman to incorporate female sexuality in her lyrics, and also being the first woman to have complete control over her career and image. This is kind of typical for sx/so's, they (have the power to) revolutionize things because they bring the fire and water element (pushing the envelope, norm breaking, risk and excitement) from sx and compared to sx/sp they have the motivation and interest to make this matter in the world and make a change.Originally Posted by lynn
Her contributions on music are generally praised by critics, which have also been known to induce controversy. Tony Sclafani from company MSNBC felt that her Madonna’s impact and effect on the future direction of music bests The Beatles, even that quarter century after Madonna emerged, artists still use her ideas and seem modern and edgy doing so.[61] Laura Barcella in her book Madonna and Me: Women Writers on the Queen of Pop (2012) wrote that "really, Madonna changed everything the musical landscape, the '80s look du jour, and most significantly, what a mainstream female pop star could (and couldn't) say, do, or accomplish in the public eye."[62] Similar to Barcella, Joe Levy Blender editor in chief, "opened the door for what women could achieve and were permitted to do".[63]In the music industry, Madonna was the first female to have complete control of her music and image.[64][65] Authors noted that before Madonna, records labels determined every step of artists, but she introduced her style and conceptually directed every part of her career; the music industry was the foundation to permanently change the way the record companies treat artists.[1] Journalist Carol Benson wrote that Madonna entered the music business with definite ideas about her image, but it was her track record that enabled her to increase her level of creative control over her music.[66] Many years after, she founded Maverick Records became the most successful "vanity label" in the history of music. While under Madonna's control it generated well over $1 billion for Warner Bros. Records, more money than any other recording artist's record label.[67][68]
Critics felt in retrospect that Madonna's presence is defined for changing contemporary musichistory for women's, mainly rock, danceand pop scene.[24][61][62][69][70][71][72] Also, she is cited that open the doors for the future hip-hop explosion and approach to sex to her music.[61] Erin Vargo from online magazine in popular culture, felt that "Madonna has fought for freedom of expression by female artists. Her legacy has paved the way for today’s pop, hip-hop, and rock artists to get into their own groove".[73]The Times stated: "Madonna, whether you like her or not, started a revolution amongst women in music ... Her attitudes and opinions on sex, nudity, style and sexuality forced the public to sit up and take notice".[74]The New York Post writer Brian Niemietz, who found that Madonna revolutionized dance music much the same way Elvis Presley invented gospel and rock and roll.[75]
Side note:
Thought this was interesting and proving a point since John Lennon (5w4), Bob Dylan (4w5) and Elvis Presley (3w2) were all sx/so's too.A pop dialectic, never seen since The Beatles's reign, which allowed her to keep on the edge of tendency and commerciality".[72] Also, Caryn Ganz from the same magazine wrote that "Madonna is the most media-savvy American pop star since Bob Dylan and, until she toned down her press-baiting behavior in the nineties, she was the most consistently controversial one since Elvis Presley.[
And yeah, social last is a ridiculous suggestion for her when she goes on about social issues so much.
Last edited by maniac; 09-29-2017 at 09:59 AM.
i was somewhat aware of her provocative sexual image and didn't particularly pay much attention to her and her music until i watched a few videos + listened to her songs. i posted the video to the song 'love profusion' already above, what's so provocative about that? i know plenty of sx/sos who would even be slightly repulsed by it because it's so apolitical and putting romantic love above everything in a very sentimental way. in a way it upholds the 'status quo' instead of revolutionizing the social sphere. her videos which are more overtly sexual (opposed to romantic) are not really upsetting either in the sense that they go against a broader notion of 'humanity'. i guess most of her songs are about relationships, love, sex, erotic aesthetics and there's probably a religious/spiritual side to as well to her songs. i personally don't see how this is actually provocative in an contra-flow way. and especially in regards to sx either too soft and sentimental or just playful/teasing. sometimes you see social themes in the background of her songs, but you can clearly see it's her most neurotic instinct she pays the most attention to (especially in her personal life outside music, or the things she discusses in interviews). either a complete over-focus or a complete rejection of it (in a way an so-second would never do).
i also recently watched her short film 'secretprojectrevolution' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXfXrl4K2D4) and that's clearly a so/sx narrative as well. that's a typical so/sx type of "revolution" (or syn-flow in general). i personally recognise the themes as well. the primary drive behind which moves her into action of putting this message out there is the perceived social oppression she wants to fight against with the goal of freedom of expression and individual freedom without having to reject a broader concept of humanity. she perceives herself to be a "freedom fighter" who wants to start a "revolution of love" (rather than violence) which will overcome separation and include "all people". sx is not the issue, but the solution. (both in the sense of love and individual/sexual/emotional expression) that's over-idealistic syn-flow politics. (which i have seen regularly criticised by contra-flow social-types.)
(i think the photographer with whom she shot the film together is probably sx/sp and a lot of her dancers seem sx/so or (or sx-first), so that contributes to the gritty aesthetics. but the message itself is pure so/sx )
compare that to kesha (who's sx/so) and her song 'prayer' where her traumatic experiences as a sexual assault victim propel her to plead for some justice (or at least closure) in the social sense. that's an example of so-second.
Kesha is so/sx. Scattered as hell. Plus Kesha is not famous for having revolutionized or changed something in a big way. She's famous for like being a trashy drunk fame whore, lol (I type her 7)
in that case you obviously seem to confuse sx/so and so/sx.
Where do you see Kesha being so neurotic about sex and partners, high "drug addiction" to a person, the need to be attractive, the "mating dance" game etc? I dont see it as her first at all. But its obvious in Madonnas case. This music video (and song) for example is pure sx:
Plus, you seem to ignore the fact that Madonna revolutionized the music industry forever with being open with her sexuality as a woman, and you don't realize that this very thing is contra-flow, for some reason. But you see Kesha, who makes songs about being drunk and partying, just like everyone does, being contraflow and revolutionary and against the public. Okay..
i know only 3 songs by kesha. the kind of reckless abandon she displays in her videos are sx/so. just look at the video of "die young". that also self-destructively goes against self preservation in a way an so/sx never would (publically) do. the social instinct wants freedom, peace and keeping everyone safe. rather than 'dying young'. then there's the incident that she filed lawsuit against dr.luke because of allegations of sexual assault and involved in a legal battle (and read some things how her career was perceived to be over because of this). now she finally has her comeback and discusses her personal battle and her struggle on her album. this kind of personal battle is very socially courageous and daring, imo. maybe it's not so easily perceivable for a social last. she fights for her music and her career and driven by her personal issues. (rather than a wider social sphere than an so/sx would) .
this doesn't look like pure sx to me. there's a strong sexual component and there's a strong social component in it.But its obvious in Madonnas case. This music video (and song) for example is pure sx:
being openly sexual is not solely an sx/so thing. i think it's her secondary instinct and thus, the most visible. but her underlying concerns are social.Plus, you seem to ignore the fact that Madonna revolutionized the music industry forever with being open with her sexuality as a woman, and you don't realize that this very thing is contra-flow, for some reason. But you see Kesha, who makes songs about being drunk and partying, just like everyone does, being contraflow and revolutionary and against the public. Okay..
Last edited by lynn; 10-02-2017 at 06:20 PM. Reason: typos
I believe Kesha and Madonna are both sx/so.
This is incredibly sx first to me (and contraflow):
This one too:
Another thing to consider is that Madonna is a 3, and 3s of all instincts seem more like social instinct than other enneatypes.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
look, Kesha almost only makes songs about partying and having fun, and singing about "us" (soc) (like, "join us" or whatever, "you cant stop us". She never (from what ive seen. very rarely at least) sings about a sexual/romantic other and it doesnt appear neurotic at all. She's obviously obsessed with "us".
Im convinced she's so/sx 7w6. Probably the same tritype as Miley Cyrus (who is so/sx too but 3) 739. They both lack the sexual intensity and seriousness of an sx first.
If you want to see a sx/so 7w6, there's Adele. Sx 7 is kind of a counter-type since they're opening themselves to the destruction of sx, so they appear more vulnerable and are more able to be open with their sad side than other 7s. Making sad love songs is basically what Adele is known for, which is interesting for a 7 (but its because of sx first). Yet you can see how in the end of the video below she still makes a joke like a classic 7
Last edited by maniac; 09-29-2017 at 07:07 PM.
always loved this song.
Strong SO
The Lightside is engaging, ingratiating even, and is the closest to what has become the stereotype for So/Sx. Unmistakably friendly, amusing, eager to attend to others in a personal, customized way. Also hesitant or unwilling to upset the delicate chemistry or harmony of individual or group dynamics, since So cohesion is at a premium.
lightside so/sx
Last edited by lynn; 10-09-2017 at 11:47 AM.
darkside so/sx
Last edited by lynn; 10-09-2017 at 11:47 AM.
lol
that's sx/so not so/sx.
"Tonight we're going hard
Just like the world is our ours
We're tearin' it apart"
sx/so - excluding, eliminating, dividing, separating, contradicting (...)
shes obsessed with "us" (meaning a group), thats what the majority of her songs are about
I wouldnt say sx/so is excluding or separating at all, rather the opposite. While a social first may be excluding people out of their group, wanting to have an "elite" group and be in that, an sx/so is more about "peace and love to everyone" and rather 2ish.
so/sx: including, associating, interconnecting, unifying, linking, bonding, cooperating (...)
The social instinct can be both including and excluding. I have an so/sx sister, she does everything to fit in with her group of friends but is weary about letting other people come into the group because it'll affect how her group sees her etc.
What i see as soc first with Kesha is her obsession with groups.
darkside so/sx
darkside so/sx (ft. sx/so)
darkside so/sx
so/sx 7w6
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