Is this girl an EIE? *description only*

[seeking it]

Awesome post/analysis above my post.

Anyway.... what I don't understand is, if Fe base is "rational" but of course they can act irrationally without the (Ti) logic input helping them, then how is THAT irrationality different from an Irrational ExFx type's attitudes and behaviours?

Is that difference even visible in OP's descriptions of this girl?

[timber]

Awesome post/analysis above my post.

Anyway.... what I don't understand is, if Fe base is "rational" but of course they can act irrationally without the (Ti) logic input helping them, then how is THAT irrationality different from an Irrational ExFx type's attitudes and behaviours?

Is that difference even visible in OP's descriptions of this girl?

Because for some reason, Fe on the forum, has become ONLY oooOOOooo wowzazazaxaxa crazy insane eeeeekkkk !!!!!!!!

Instead of ethics of actions.

The same way money, and earning it, is now equal to Te. Emotional expression is therefore, to forumites eyes, irRAtinionlll eeeeeerrk oooogha ooooghhaa ooggha yell yell yell cry cry cry happy happy happy saaaaaaaaaaddddddd.

People are mistaking a map feature for the territory.

[seeking it]

Because for some reason, Fe on the forum, has become ONLY oooOOOooo wowzazazaxaxa crazy insane eeeeekkkk !!!!!!!!

Instead of ethics of actions.

The same way money, and earning it, is now equal to Te. Emotional expression is therefore, to forumites eyes, irRAtinionlll eeeeeerrk oooogha ooooghhaa ooggha yell yell yell cry cry cry happy happy happy saaaaaaaaaaddddddd.

People are mistaking a map feature for the territory.

I liked your post. But I literally meant, how is actually irrationally acting ExE different from an inherently Irrational ExFx type (SEE/IEE)? Because, it *does* happen that ExE ends up taking irrational actions bc of lack of Ti blah blah.

[timber]

I liked your post. But I literally meant, how is actually irrationally acting ExE different from an inherently Irrational ExFx type (SEE/IEE)? Because, it *does* happen that ExE ends up taking irrational actions bc of lack of Ti blah blah.

"Irrational actions"? As in what, some sort of logics of actions type action? Or irrational in the sense of something occuring between people or...?

What way would logics of relationships help keep them from said irrational actions?

Sorry but some of what you are writing sounds like straight up personal theorizing, is it based off your own personal observations? If it is, I'm curious about knowing more. Otherwise it's a bit of fantasy role play, like other forumites do.

[timber]

Irrationality in socionics terms has several definitions and I encourage you to do research in the wiki, if you want to dilineate the difference between emotive, histrionic perhaps, type irrationallity, the irrationality-rationality dichotomy, and the irrationality of Eps, and finally the colloquial understanding of irrational actions as it pertains to certain types .

[seeking it]

"Irrational actions"? As in what, some sort of logics of actions type action? Or irrational in the sense of something occuring between people or...?

What way would logics of relationships help keep them from said irrational actions?

Irrational as in the below quote. That also describes how logics of relationships helps avoid that.

Sorry but some of what you are writing sounds like straight up personal theorizing, is it based off your own personal observations? If it is, I'm curious about knowing more. Otherwise it's a bit of fantasy role play, like other forumites do.

Na. This is standard wikisocion.

Quoting about Ti as an information element and how this works for Fe base types:

" as a suggestive (5th) function (ESE and EIE)

The individual has great admiration for people with well-developed systems of views. He especially likes clear and concise explanations of concepts, rather than a lot of background information about them that is not directly pertinent. He wants his actions to make sense, and thus needs external assurance that the conceptual understanding behind them is correct. If he cannot find a source of certainty, he may become flustered and unable to act rationally at all."

From https://www.wikisocion.net/en/index....roverted_logic

Irrationality in socionics terms has several definitions and I encourage you to do research in the wiki, if you want to dilineate the difference between emotive, histrionic perhaps, type irrationallity, the irrationality-rationality dichotomy, and the irrationality of Eps, and finally the colloquial understanding of irrational actions as it pertains to certain types .

Yup it does have several definitions.....hence my question wanting to know more on how the two versions mentioned above are observed in reality, what it looks like relative to each other, under the particular conditions as mentioned.

[Metaphor]

​The creative is the function the extrovert uses to create an atmosphere for people to interact in. In ESFjs it is about creating and partaking in the Alpha environment of plentiful food or goodies and entertainment based on Si, along with ‘services’ and ‘gifts’ that vibes with and invigorates Alphas. An ESE idea of “a plan” is exactly what I described but it's not only their idea: they're the dutiful executors. When you enter their circle, it shouldn't take you time to notice it because along with their Si creative, Ni polr enters the room. You tell them you want to come over for pizza. You get to their home and are 3 homemade pizzas, surprise dumplings that you weren't expecting, a cheesecake they prepared just to treat you and while you're talking to them they're still going at it in the kitchen. How did they pull it off? Well, that was so thoughtful. Only, you start to notice it's their modus vivendi, they're always engaged in something of that nature, overworking themselves when they're engaging in Si because it's as if it's what they must do and it can't wait. You start to notice other things in that nature: managing Si for others in that ‘I’ll do it first time in the morning, it can't wait, you just let me!” mindset. And they sincerely expect you to enjoy it and approve of what they provide.

I'm not talking about a 50-year-old EIE that has learned to make scones and now is telling everyone about it and how they might get lucky and invited to try them out and see their china collection (real story, btw), or someone getting excited that they get to organize their BF's birthday party.

That is what is completely missing in the OP. What he mentions is what appears to be Ni polr (but could actually also be Ni lead) and I could accept that's Ni in an ESE…if he said he met her superficially and saw Ni polr attached to work and other things, like ESEs would probably display from far-away perspective still not intimate with her. He got to know her deeper and still nothing Si in service of others even if histrionic but traits from other types?

I didn't see Fi-creative still. Dutiful executors seem to be an interesting description, but Si-value usually is in-tune with the environment that surrounds them. So, to misunderstand Si-creative as Si-suggestive is understandable when you overlook the strength of its element. And by the description, it's evidently Fe-Si. See the way she wants to provide a good, positive, and exhilarating environment for others is more than enough as the evidence of Si-creative in ESE as Alpha. However, I didn't see Ne-base or ego, therefore IEE is out of equation.

[The Reality Denialist]

This tends to be very default ESE position. Taking things literally might be Ni PoLR+Se. Making things convoluted could be Ni activity - assigning associative properties to form interpretation when information is scarce.

[Rusal]

Dutiful executors seem to be an interesting description, but Si-value usually is in-tune with the environment that surrounds them. See the way she wants to provide a good, positive, and exhilarating environment.

You would need to be careful there. Because to go from my description to yours you needed to make a minimal but crucial jump. I wouldn't want to provide a negative or bad environment to people and I very much people that are with me to have fun so I'd act reasonably nice and upbeat, but that doesn't get the point of how Fe/Si manifests when you get to know a person deeper, as the reader. That said, we might be discussing beyond what's there because the girl in question
makes spiteful comments
pressures specific people to the point of making others present feel embarrassed.

[seeking it]

You would need to be careful there. Because to go from my description to yours you needed to make a minimal but crucial jump. I wouldn't want to provide a negative or bad environment to people and I very much people that are with me to have fun so I'd act reasonably nice and upbeat, but that doesn't get the point of how Fe/Si manifests when you get to know a person deeper, as the reader. That said, we might be discussing beyond what's there because the girl in question
makes spiteful comments
pressures specific people to the point of making others present feel embarrassed.

As far as what this girl is doing as per your quote, I've seen Fe ego (beta NF) do exactly that. In fact, she made me feel embarrassed in some situations. With her trying so hard to persuade some people (to get something she needed) and it was all over the place in my eyes. Though, persuading is not the same as outright pressuring people, I don't know what exactly OP meant. She did also make spiteful comments yes, usually behind people's backs. In front of people, she'd just sometimes get at them for some moral issues (issue being perceived as existing in her eyes), or whatever. That's the extent of how "spiteful" she'd be in public (so not really doing it in public).

[Metaphor]

You would need to be careful there. Because to go from my description to yours you needed to make a minimal but crucial jump. I wouldn't want to provide a negative or bad environment to people and I very much people that are with me to have fun so I'd act reasonably nice and upbeat, but that doesn't get the point of how Fe/Si manifests when you get to know a person deeper, as the reader. That said, we might be discussing beyond what's there because the girl in question
makes spiteful comments
pressures specific people to the point of making others present feel embarrassed.

Well, that's just Fe so, meh. I have no mood for debate so don't argue with me as I won't change my opinion that IEE is out of equation.

[nifl]

Well, that's just Fe so, meh. I have no mood for debate so don't argue with me as I won't change my opinion that IEE is out of equation.

IEE is out of the equation, unless you think that it is not unusual for a Fi type to make spiteful comments (because Fi types, as is known, couldn't care less about emotionally comfortable interactions) and pressure people without caring about them being uncomfortable (which IEE, being a Fi ego with Se in superego, is obviously ready to do at any moment)

IEE also are irrationals, and obviously irrationals cannot hold their attention on anything for more than 2 seconds, so IEE cannot follow a joke or a story, much less get anything subtle out of them because of this (poor IEEs!). The fact that they have a better imagination than sensors is irrelevant - they simply cannot concentrate long enough to use it!

and IEE naturally care more about material reality than ESE, a sensing type. Because they value Te (facts, optimisation of logical procedures), even though it is weak and thus more in the unconscious than the strong functions. Thus IEE actually think a lot more about material benefits than ESE - even though they're intuitives!

[Poptart]

You guys are arguing about a girl who probably doesn’t exist outside of OP’s head

[Rusal]

Well, that's just Fe so, meh.

What was undecided was if the girl in question had any. Not to mention Fe+Si.

IEE is out of the equation, unless you think that it is not unusual for a Fi type to make spiteful comments (because Fi types, as is known, couldn't care less about emotionally comfortable interactions) and pressure people without caring about them being uncomfortable (which IEE, being a Fi ego with Se in superego, is obviously ready to do at any moment)

IEE also are irrationals, and obviously irrationals cannot hold their attention on anything for more than 2 seconds, so IEE cannot follow a joke or a story, much less get anything subtle out of them because of this (poor IEEs!). The fact that they have a better imagination than sensors is irrelevant - they simply cannot concentrate long enough to use it!

and IEE naturally care more about material reality than ESE, a sensing type. Because they value Te (facts, optimisation of logical procedures), even though it is weak and thus more in the unconscious than the strong functions. Thus IEE actually think a lot more about material benefits than ESE - even though they're intuitives!

In some of the ways they interact with money IEEs can come off as more preoccupied with it than ESE, who in my experience tend to be more free with it. I recommend that you read Strati on IEEs, all of the description. It's a rather intimate take. It will help you plenty.

The IEE is captivated by any opportunity to demonstrate his practicality. He refers with interest to practical recommendations provided in magazines and television programs. Before throwing a thing out, the IEE thinks whether it’s possible to convert it into something necessary. (Sometimes he can give it as a present exactly to this purpose.)
The IEE visits thrift stores and sales events. A thing that has been put out for a cheap price to IEE’s eyes immediately becomes attractive. In such minutes he doesn’t think about its aesthetic qualities, but only considers it from the point of its functional and useful properties (which he, however, doesn’t consider necessary to test).
Thus, the “practical” Huxley sometimes accumulates an enormous quantity of cheap and not very attractive things, to which he almost immediately loses interest and persistently proposes them as gifts or tries to resell them as “good deals” to people in his environment

[Metaphor]

What was undecided was if the girl in question had any. Not to mention Fe+Si.

Nothing was undecided, she clearly had Fe-Si Ego. That's all.

[Rusal]

Nothing was undecided, she clearly had Fe-Si Ego. That's all.

Do you have examples of "she wants to provide a good, positive, and exhilarating environment for others"?

[Metaphor]

Do you have examples of "she wants to provide a good, positive, and exhilarating environment for others"?

There is a lot, but one of them:

Closes distance rapidly with communication, almost too fast, has a lot of problems with "leading guys on" because of that. Gives complements to those she feels are in need of them, likes to draw in those who are seen as socially inept (e.g nerdy guys, quiet girls etc)