Eminem's type (old discussion)

[Dioklecian]

It's all over him. He raps about nothing but his feelings. Everything he talks about in his earlier works is about how he's weird and emo and insane and how fucked up his childhood was; there's nothing about making money, having bitches, etc. that typical rappers are known for. It's all about his own obscurity and emotional angst. Think about songs like "The Real Slim Shady": he tries to unite people based on feelings of distaste for cultural norms and political correctness - Beta to the max. He's aggressive, emotional, intense, and self-deprecating (not something typical of, say, Beta STs), and he makes sure people know it. Also a pretty clear 4w3 (sx/so probably), which translates a good percentage of the time to IEI.

Well you said that he doesn't talk about having "bitches", but in fact he does.

As to what differentiates him personally from others, well those are many, including the fact that he does talk about his mother. Most rappers don't talk about stuff like that, for instance 50 Cent is all about the shootings.

There are women who like Eminem because (they say) he's complex

“Dealing with backstabbers, there was one thing I learned. They're only powerful when you got your back turned.”
heath3r Eminem quote

“"Sometimes you just gotta let shit go and say to "hell with it" and move on"”
AmorSemper Eminem quote

“I felt like it's my time to shine, I have to rip this. At that time, I felt that it was a life or death situation.”
Eminem quote

[Exodus]

He's aggressive, emotional, intense, and self-deprecating (not something typical of, say, Beta STs), and he makes sure people know it.

All of those could fit Beta STs except for self-deprecating.

[Animal]

I'm going to have to agree with Gilly. He does the same sort of hostile postering other IEIs who make it big in the music industry do. He definitely comes across as an Ip at the least, in interviews most of the time. He's rarely ever outright combative except in his music.

That said, he's a weenie.

[olduser]

I can't look at him. Look at this video, he looks like an animated mannequin. It really creeped me out late one night:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3i6z2fnQZ4[/youtube]

INFp or INTp. I always thought INTp but I see a good argument for INFp.

He makes money exposing his personal life. He's basically Jerry Springer.

man, those tshirts are fucking big.

[Slacker]

man, those tshirts are fucking big.

Didn't we have a huge huge thread about him at one point?

here it is!

[Kristiina]

For some reason I always thought he was the same type as discojoe, whatever type he may be. (anything from ENTp to ISFj. I doubt he typed himself as his conflictor when he arrived in the forum, but from what I understand, Joy has succeeded in convincing him that he's ISFj. Didn't convince me because he would have had an extremely false self-perception if he typed himself as his conflictor. That in itself is proof against being Fi-dominant.)

[machintruc]

more stereotypical to LSE, or any other Negativist Judger except LII.

[Gilly]

He's aggressive, emotional, intense, and self-deprecating (not something typical of, say, Beta STs), and he makes sure people know it.

All of those could fit Beta STs except for self-deprecating.

That's exactly what I was saying...

[Gilly]

It's all over him. He raps about nothing but his feelings. Everything he talks about in his earlier works is about how he's weird and emo and insane and how fucked up his childhood was; there's nothing about making money, having bitches, etc. that typical rappers are known for. It's all about his own obscurity and emotional angst. Think about songs like "The Real Slim Shady": he tries to unite people based on feelings of distaste for cultural norms and political correctness - Beta to the max. He's aggressive, emotional, intense, and self-deprecating (not something typical of, say, Beta STs), and he makes sure people know it. Also a pretty clear 4w3 (sx/so probably), which translates a good percentage of the time to IEI.

Well you said that he doesn't talk about having "bitches", but in fact he does.

As to what differentiates him personally from others, well those are many, including the fact that he does talk about his mother. Most rappers don't talk about stuff like that, for instance 50 Cent is all about the shootings.

There are women who like Eminem because (they say) he's complex

“Dealing with backstabbers, there was one thing I learned. They're only powerful when you got your back turned.”
heath3r Eminem quote

“"Sometimes you just gotta let shit go and say to "hell with it" and move on"”
AmorSemper Eminem quote

“I felt like it's my time to shine, I have to rip this. At that time, I felt that it was a life or death situation.”
Eminem quote

You haven't said anything that points to IEE. Ok, and he talks about having bitches. That TOTALLY discounts IEI.

[implied]

why not ESTp?

him being the epitome of aggression only points towards -. i see him mostly as beta, never ENFp. i could also buy the arguments for some sort of XNTp like what's been said in that other thread.

[Gilly]

I could never, ever see Eminem as any dominant type, and I think he's certainly irrational, so that rules out all ego types. The only ones I would realistically consider would be SLI, IEI, ILE, and perhaps ILI.

While an aggressive attitude might point to an dominant, Eminem's aggression is angsty, and obviously pain/emotion-driven; not at all like the natural, healthy "challenging" attitude that one would expect from an SLE or SEE.

[Gilly]

Yeah, he VIs pretty clearly as an type by my standards. It's all in the eyes.

[Blaze]

huh, i dunno, i always thot he was a super pissed off istp, myself.

[posablethumb]

i think he's ISTp too. have u heard of his 'the way i am'? the lyrics sound like something an ISTp would say

[Logos]

INFp works.

[Logos]

I know, but I went back to listen to him, and indeed this lyrics do seem to have its fair share of . Alot of songs are about his feelings as well as a certain element of alienation of reality. He may sound angry and tough, but the content of what he saying does point to something else.

[snegledmaca]

His seems pathological, counterproductive, destructive. His on the other hand seems to be much more creative, inspiring, productive. In essence I'd agree with Dio, I can see him as an ENFp, or in his case a destructor of values with a super strong ID.

And to contrast him to some IEI artists and bands: Enrique, Enya, The Corrs, The Cure. IMO emotional volatility is a sign of a pathological , not creative.

As for an IEI that has a destructive ID, Edgar Alan Poe seems like a good example, and generally I'd say anything showing non existence of empathy and values, or in other words, dehumanized and grotesque.

[Gilly]

His seems pathological, counterproductive, destructive. His on the other hand seems to be much more creative, inspiring, productive. In essence I'd agree with Dio, I can see him as an ENFp, or in his case a destructor of values with a super strong ID.

And to contrast him to some IEI artists and bands: Enrique, Enya, The Corrs, The Cure. IMO emotional volatility is a sign of a pathological , not creative.

As for an IEI that has a destructive ID, Edgar Alan Poe seems like a good example, and generally I'd say anything showing non existence of empathy and values, or in other words, dehumanized and grotesque.

That's a pretty weak argument...what makes you think that dominant functions can't be pathological? What if he's just pathological? People can use their Ego functions for bad reasons, you know...You're being way too strictly Jungian for a real Socionics analysis here.

[Suomea]

Completely shows beta qualities. He definitely shows a ton of :Se: so INFp is pretty much out. ISTj is out because he shows a ton of :Fe: as well. So basically the question is whether :Se: is his first function and :Fe: is his hidden agenda or vice versa. I'd say the function he shows the least of is :Ni: , and I'd go with :Se: as his first function. He may show :Fe: but I feel it's more a real emotional response rather than something controlled. ESTp in my opinion. Ti subtype I think. ESTps can be deeply emotional.

[Gilly]

Completely shows beta qualities. He definitely shows a ton of so INFp is pretty much out. ISTj is out because he shows a ton of as well. So basically the question is whether is his first function and is his hidden agenda or vice versa. I'd say the function he shows the least of is , and I'd go with as his first function. He may show but I feel it's more a real emotional response rather than something controlled. ESTp in my opinion. Ti subtype I think. ESTps can be deeply emotional.

Why is aggression seen as a case for Se dominance? How does he REALLY show Se?

[snegledmaca]

His seems pathological, counterproductive, destructive. His on the other hand seems to be much more creative, inspiring, productive. In essence I'd agree with Dio, I can see him as an ENFp, or in his case a destructor of values with a super strong ID.

And to contrast him to some IEI artists and bands: Enrique, Enya, The Corrs, The Cure. IMO emotional volatility is a sign of a pathological , not creative.

As for an IEI that has a destructive ID, Edgar Alan Poe seems like a good example, and generally I'd say anything showing non existence of empathy and values, or in other words, dehumanized and grotesque.

That's a pretty weak argument...what makes you think that dominant functions can't be pathological? What if he's just pathological? People can use their Ego functions for bad reasons, you know...

By definition dominant functions are not pathological. Though they can be used in what others consider a pathological way. For example, a dominant will use their to visualize reality but they could also use it to visualize a "bad" reality, like for example, a world with no Jews or something like that. The point being it's not pathologically used though it's manifestations are. That would be a pathological person. Pathological usage of informational elements would be an act of destruction through the element itself. Picture it like being a fire while the first case as lighting a fire. IMO Eminem is a fire and is not merely lighting it.

[Gilly]

You're not saying anything relevant to Socionics.

[snegledmaca]

You're not saying anything relevant to Socionics.

How come?

[Gilly]

Where in Socionics literature have you ever read that behavior like Eminem's can't be a manifestation of Ego functions? That's entirely impossible. Stop looking at what he's doing, which Socionics should NOT be used for, and start looking at how he's doing it, which is what Socionics is all about.

[snegledmaca]

Where in Socionics literature have you ever read that behavior like Eminem's can't be a manifestation of Ego functions? That's entirely impossible.

I never said that. I said it wasn't pathological. I think we may have different interpretations of what pathological means.

Stop looking at what he's doing, which Socionics should NOT be used for, and start looking at how he's doing it, which is what Socionics is all about.

I totally don't understand you. That's precisely what I've been doing, determining the way in which he is using the information and ignoring what he's doing. I'm confused.

[Gilly]

I think we're both pretty much knee-deep in misinterpretation at this point. No point in digging further.

[snegledmaca]

I think we're both pretty much knee-deep in misinterpretation at this point. No point in digging further.

Agreed.

[Suomea]

Completely shows beta qualities. He definitely shows a ton of :Se: so INFp is pretty much out. ISTj is out because he shows a ton of :Fe: as well. So basically the question is whether :Se: is his first function and :Fe: is his hidden agenda or vice versa. I'd say the function he shows the least of is :Ni: , and I'd go with :Se: as his first function. He may show :Fe: but I feel it's more a real emotional response rather than something controlled. ESTp in my opinion. Ti subtype I think. ESTps can be deeply emotional.

:8* Why is aggression seen as a case for Se dominance? How does he REALLY show Se?

Eminem shows :Se: in the way he looks everyone up and down. He could legitimately get into someones face and stare them down because he has such strong :Se: . I view this as ability. An ENFj does show aggression but it's a different type of aggression. With an ENFj the aggression can be louder but much less physically directed at the person. You won't see the eyes directed at the person from an inch away like you will with an ESTp. An ENFj might scream or shout a person down by volume but rarer are they able to stare someone down from close and take them down by physical pressure alone.

[Gilly]

That has zero to do with Se; it has to do with being angry and self-confident

[Suomea]

So what you're saying is that getting into someone's face an inch away is not a power method of achieving a purpose. I disagree with the angry part a little bit because there are definitely some ESTps who do it for social ordering purposes. As for self confidence I think that's partially true. Will get into that later tonight.......need to head out now though

[Megan]

huh, i dunno, i always thot he was a super pissed off istp, myself.

I think he is an ISTp too.

polr types often are emotionally expressive in a highly excessive way. as far as I can see it in polr types is sometimes more about inappropriate use and lack of control over rather than lack of use, this applies especially when they are going through or have gone through some sort of highly negative experience.

[Dioklecian]

It's all over him. He raps about nothing but his feelings. Everything he talks about in his earlier works is about how he's weird and emo and insane and how fucked up his childhood was; there's nothing about making money, having bitches, etc. that typical rappers are known for. It's all about his own obscurity and emotional angst. Think about songs like "The Real Slim Shady": he tries to unite people based on feelings of distaste for cultural norms and political correctness - Beta to the max. He's aggressive, emotional, intense, and self-deprecating (not something typical of, say, Beta STs), and he makes sure people know it. Also a pretty clear 4w3 (sx/so probably), which translates a good percentage of the time to IEI.

Well you said that he doesn't talk about having "bitches", but in fact he does.

As to what differentiates him personally from others, well those are many, including the fact that he does talk about his mother. Most rappers don't talk about stuff like that, for instance 50 Cent is all about the shootings.

There are women who like Eminem because (they say) he's complex

“Dealing with backstabbers, there was one thing I learned. They're only powerful when you got your back turned.”
heath3r Eminem quote

“"Sometimes you just gotta let shit go and say to "hell with it" and move on"”
AmorSemper Eminem quote

“I felt like it's my time to shine, I have to rip this. At that time, I felt that it was a life or death situation.”
Eminem quote

You haven't said anything that points to IEE. Ok, and he talks about having bitches. That TOTALLY discounts IEI.

No but your info was misleading.

[Dioklecian]

That has zero to do with Se; it has to do with being angry and self-confident

No, just belligerent.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well now what type is Sir Elton John while we're at it? lol

[Dioklecian]

Well now what type is Sir Elton John while we're at it? lol

He needs his own thread I think. He is very difficult to type, at least for me.

[tempral]

I seriously doubt that he is IEI. Wasn't he typed an SLI? Super-Ego's can be somewhat similar.

[machintruc]

-00 LII

Not all LII's are S0D-

[implied]

reminds me of discojoe.

[implied]

Snacks and Shit: #284, 285, 286, 287, 288

[Gilly]

Beta NF, anger-and-bitterness-cured-by-wealth-and-fame subtype