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    I dreamt of independent, talking cats and snakes. An orange snake wrapped around my arm, tightly. When I pulled it off, it turned into a multicolored hydra and yelled, "wake up!". I woke up.



    HYDRA SECOND LABOUR OF HERACLES

    Hesiod, Theogony 313 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
    "And third again she [Ekhidna] bore the grisly-minded Lernaian Hydra, whom the goddess white-armed Hera nourished because of her quenchless grudge against the strong Herakles. Yet he, Herakles, son of Zeus, of the line of Amphitryon, by design of Athene the spoiler and with help form warlike Iolaos, killed this beast with the pitiless bronze sword."

    Alcaeus, Fragment 443 (from Schoiast on Hesiod's Theogony) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric II) (Greek lyric C6th B.C.) :
    "The Hydra is called nine-headed by Alcaeus, fifty-headed by Simonides."

    Simonides, Fragment 569 (from Servius on Virgil's Aeneid) (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric II) (Greek lyric C6th to 5th B.C.) :
    "One hundred snakes as in Simonides, as we said above [he spoke of Simonides fifty-headed Hydra]; others say there were nine."


    Aeschylus, Fragment 55 Leon (from Stephen of Byzantium, Lexicon 699. 13) (trans. Weir Smyth) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :

    "The bane of wayfarers, the drakon (serpent) that haunts the place." [N.B. Perhaps a reference to the Hydra of Lerna.]


    Plato, Euthydemus 297c (trans. Lamb) (Greek philosopher C4th B.C.) :

    "[Plato uses the myth of the Hydra as a metaphor for argument :] Herakles, who was no match for the Hydra . . . who was so clever that she sent forth many heads . . . in place of each one that was cut off; . . . [and a] crab . . . from the sea--freshly, I fancy, arrived on shore; and, when the hero was so bothered with its leftward barks and bites, he summoned his nephew Iolaus to the rescue, and he brought him effective relief."


    Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 77 - 80 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :

    "For his second labour Herakles was instructed to slay the Lernaian Hydra. The beast was nurtured in the marshes of Lerna, from where she would go out onto the flatland to raid flocks and ruin the land. The Hydra was of enormous size, with eight mortal heads, and a ninth one in the middle that was immortal. With Iolaos driving, Herakles rode a chariot to Lerna, and there, stopping the horses, he found the Hydra on a ridge beside the springs of Amymone where she nested. By throwing flaming spears at her he forced her to emerge, and as she did he was able to catch hold. But she hung on to him by wrapping herself round one of his feet, and he was unable to help matters by striking her with his club, for as soon as one head was pounded off two others would grow in its place. Then a giant crab came along to help the Hydra, and bit Herakles on the foot. For this he killed the crab, and called on his own behalf to Iolaos for help. Iolaos made some torches by setting fire to a portion of the adjoining woods, and, by using these to burn the buddings of the heads, he kept them from growing. When he had overcome this problem, Herakles lopped off the immortal head, which he buried and covered with a heavy boulder at the side of the road that runs through Lerna to Elaios. He cut up the Hydra's body and dipped his arrows in its venom."


    Strabo, Geography 8. 6. 2 (trans. Jones) (Greek geographer C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "The river Lerna, as it is called, bearing the same name as the marsh in which is laid the scene of the myth of the Hydra."


    Strabo, Geography 8. 6. 6 :

    "Lake Lerna, the scene of the story of the Hydra, lies in Argeia and the Mykenean territory."


    Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 37. 4 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :

    ”At the source of the Amymone [near Lerna, Argolis] grows a plane tree, beneath which, they say, the Hydra (Water-snake) grew. I am ready to believe that this beast was superior in size to other water-snakes, and that its poison had something in it so deadly that Herakles treated the points of his arrows with its gall. It had, however, in my opinion, one head and not several. It was Peisander of Kamiros who, in order that the beat might appear more frightful and his poetry might be more remarkable, represented the Hydra with its many heads."


    Pausanias, Description of Greece 3. 18. 10 - 16 :

    "[Amongst the illustrations on the throne of the statue of Apollon at Amyklai near Sparta :] On the left stand Ekhidna and Typhos, on the right Tritones . . . Next to these have been wrought two of the exploits of Herakles--his slaying of the Hydra, and his bringing up the Hound of Hell (kuna ton Haidou)."


    Pausanias, Description of Greece 5. 17. 11 :

    "[Amongst the illustrations on the chest of Kypselos dedicated at Olympia :] Heracles, with Athena standing beside him, is shooting at the Hydra, the beast in the river Amymone."


    Pausanias, Description of Greece 5. 26. 7 :

    "By the smaller offerings of Mikythos [at Olympia] . . . are some of the exploits of Herakles, including what he did to the Nemeian Lion (Leonta Nemea), the Hydra, the Hound of Hell , and the boar by the river Erymanthos."


    Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 11. 5 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :

    "The second Labour which he [Herakles] undertook was the slaying of the Lernaian Hydra, springing from whose single body were fashioned a hundred necks, each bearing the head of a serpent. And when one head was cut off, the place where it was severed put forth two others; for this reason it was considered to be invincible, and with good reason, since the part of it which was subdued sent forth a two-fold assistance in its place. Against a thing so difficult to manage as this Herakles devised an ingenious scheme and commanded Iolaos to sear with a burning brand the part which had been severed, in order to check the flow of the blood. So when he had subdued the animal by this means he dipped the heads of his arrows in the venom, in order that when the missile should be shot the wound which the point made might be incurable."


    Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 6. 212 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :

    "Thereby was wrought [on the shield of Eurypylos, a son of Herakles] the Hydra many-necked flickering its dread tongues. Of its fearful heads some severed lay on earth, but many more were budding from its necks, while Herakles and Iolaos, dauntless-hearted twain, toiled hard; the one with lightning sickle-sweeps lopped the fierce heads, his fellow seared each neck With glowing iron; the monster so was slain."


    Aelian, On Animals 9. 23 (trans. Scholfield) (Greek natural history C2nd A.D.) :

    "Hekataios the chronicler [Greek C4th B.C.], may sing, of the Hydra of Lerna, one of the Labours of Herakles." - Aelian, On Animals 9.23


    Ptolemy Hephaestion, New History Book 2 (summary from Photius, Myriobiblon 190) (trans. Pearse) (Greek mythographer C1st to C2nd A.D.) :
    "Aristonikos of Tarenton says that the middle head of the Hydra was of gold."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Preface (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.) :

    "From Typhon and Echidna [was born] : . . . Hydra serpent which had nine heads which Hercules killed, and Draco Hesperidum."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 30 :

    "He [Herakles] killed at the spring of Lerna the nine headed Lernaean Hydra, offspring of Typhon. This monster was so poisonous that she killed men with her breath, and if anyone passed by when she was sleeping, he breathed her tracks and died in greatest torment. Under Minerva’s [Athene’s] instructions he killed her, disembowelled her, and dipped his arrows in her gall; and so whatever later he hit with his arrows did not escape death, and later he himself perished in Phrygia from the same cause."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 151 :

    "From Typhon the giant and Echidna were born . . . the Hydra which Hercules killed by the spring of Lerna."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Astronomica 2. 23 :

    "The Crab is said to have been put among the stars by the favour of Juno [Hera], because, when Hercules had stood firm against the Lernaean Hydra, it had snapped at his foot from the swamp. Hercules, enraged at this, had killed it, and Juno [Hera] put it among the constellations."


    Ovid, Metamorphoses 9. 69 ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "[Herakles addresses the shape-shifting river-god Akhelous :] `Mastering Dracones is child’s play, Achelous! Yes, if you were champion serpent, how could you compare with Echidna Lernaea [Hydra], you a single snake? It throve on wounds: of all its hundred heads I cut off one but from its neck two more sprang to succeed it, stronger than before! Yes, though it branched with serpents sprung from death, and multiplied on doom, I mastered it, and, mastered, I dispatched it.'"


    Ovid, Metamorphoses 9. 192 ff :

    "The Hydra’s gain from loss, with doubled strength, was all in vain [i.e. against the might of Herakles]."


    Ovid, Heroides 9. 87 ff (trans. Showerman) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "[Herakles] told of the deeds . . . The fertile serpent that sprang forth again from the fruitful wound, grown rich from her own hurt."


    Virgil, Aeneid 6. 803 ff (trans. Day-Lewis) (Roman epic C1st B.C.) :

    "[Herakles] subdued Lerana with the terror of his bow."


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 220 ff (trans. Miller) (Roman tragedy C1st A.D.) :

    "[The infant Herakles killed two serpents] crushing their swollen throats with his baby hands, he practised for the Hydra."


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 241 ff :

    "[The labours of Herakles :] Lerna’s fell monster, pest manifold, did he not quell at last by fire and teach to die?"


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 526 ff :

    "Let Alcmena’s son [Herakles] in endless wars employ on monsters the hand that bore the heavens; let him cut off the Hydra’s teeming necks.”


    Seneca, Medea 700 ff :

    "[The witch Medea summons poisonous serpents with a spell invoking the names of the great Drakones :] `In answer to my incantations let Python come . . . Let Hydra return and every serpent cut off by the hand of Hercules, restoring itself by its own destruction. Thou, too, ever-watchful dragon [of the Golden Fleece].'"


    Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 7. 623 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic C1st A.D.) :

    "The Tirynthian [Herakles] wearied in fight against the Hydra’s dreadful hosts turned to the fires of Pallas [Athene who suggested to the hero this means of destroying the creature]."


    Statius, Thebaid 2. 375 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic C1st A.D.) :

    "The marsh of Lerna and the burnt Hydra’s heat makes warm the depths of those unrighteous waters."


    Statius, Thebaid 4. 168 ff :

    "There lies the Hydra [on the shield of the Argive warrior Kapaneus] with triple-branching crown, lately slain and foul in death: part, embossed in silver, glitters fierce with moving snakes, part by a cunning device is sunken, and grows dark in death agony against the tawny gold; around, in dark-blue steel runs the torpid stream of Lerna."


    Nonnus, Dionysiaca 25. 196 ff (trans. Rouse) (Greek epic C5th A.D.) :

    "[Herakles] took all that trouble to liberate some little snaky brook like Lerna, by cutting down the selfgrowing firstfruits of the lurking serpent, as that plentiful crop of snakeheads grew spiking up. If only he had done the killing alone! Instead of calling in his distress for Iolaos, to destroy the heads as they grew afresh, by lifting a burning torch; until the two together managed to get the better of one female serpent . . . cutting down a bush of heads which ever grew again on so many necks."


    Suidas s.v. Hydran temnein (trans. Suda On Line) (Byzantine Greek Lexicon C10th A.D.) :


    "Hydran temnein (you are cutting off a hydra) : Said of things that are hopeless; for the story goes that when Herakles was fighting a Hydra in Lerna which had a hundred heads, and as the heads were cut off more grew, he ordered Iolaos to burn the cut ones."


    Suidas s.v. Hydra :

    "Hydra : Nine-headed snake."





    Edit: I love how my subconscious stores information that I forgot. Then it gives me symbolism to follow. Dream artist...

     




    ARROWS OF HERACLES COATED WITH THE HYDRA'S VENOM

    Alcman, Fragment 815 Geryoneis (trans. Campbell, Vol. Greek Lyric III) (Greek lyric C7th B.C.) :
    "[Herakles arrow] (Bringing) the end that is hateful (death), having (doom) on its head, befouled with blood and with . . [lacuna] gall, the anguish of the dapple-necked Hydra, destroyer of men [Herakles used an arrow poisoned with the blood and gall of the Hydra]; and Geryon drooped his neck to one side"


    Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 80 (trans. Aldrich) (Greek mythographer C2nd A.D.) :
    "He [Herakles] cut up the Hydra's body and dipped his arrows in its venom."


    Pseudo-Apollodorus, Bibliotheca 2. 157 :

    "In fear lest Herakles desire Iole more than herself [Deianeira], and in her belief that the blood of Nessos [who was slain by Herakles with an arrow poisoned with Hydra's blood] was truly a love-potion, she doused the robe with it. Herakles put it on and started the sacrifice, but soon the robe grew warm as the Hydra’s venom began to cook his flesh. He caught up Likhas by the foot and hurled him into the Euboian sea, then tore off the robe, which stuck to his body so that he ripped off his flesh along with hit."


    Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4. 1390 ff (trans. Rieu) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) :

    "The snake [the Drakon of the Hesperides], struck down by Herakles, lay by the trunk of the apple-tree. Only the tip of his tail was still twitching; from the head down, his dark spine showed not a sign of life. His blood had been poisoned by arrows steeped in the gall of the Lernaean Hydra, and flies perished in the festering wounds."


    Strabo, Geography 8. 3. 19 (trans. Jones) (Greek geographer C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "It [the Anigros River of Elis] emits an offensive odor for a distance of twenty stadia, and makes the fish unfit to eat. In the mythical accounts, however, this is attributed by some writers to the fact that certain of the Kentauroi here washed off the poison they got from the Hydra [after their battle with Herakles] . . . The bathing-water from here cures leprosy, elephantiasis, and scabies."


    Pausanias, Description of Greece 5. 5. 9 (trans. Jones) (Greek travelogue C2nd A.D.) :

    "Some Greeks say that Khiron, other that Pylenor another Kentauros, when shot by Herakles fled wounded to this river [Anigros in Elis] and washed his hurt in it, and that it was the Hydra’s poison which gave the Anigros its nasty smell."


    Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 38. 1 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :

    "Herakles put on the shirt which had been anointed [by his wife Deianeira with the blood of Nessos infused with Hydra's venom], and as the strength of the toxic drug began slowly to work he met with the most terrible calamity. For the arrow’s barb had carried the poison of the adder [Hydra], and when the shirt for this reason, as it became heated, attacked the flesh of the body."


    Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 9. 392 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :

    "Beside his [Philoktetes] stony bed lay a long quiver full of arrows, some for hunting, some to smite his foes withal; with deadly venom of that fell water-snake [Hydra] were these besmeared. Before it, nigh to his hand, lay the great bow, with curving tips of horn, wrought by the mighty hands of Herakles."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 30 (trans. Grant) (Roman mythographer C2nd A.D.) :

    "Under Minerva’s [Athene’s] instructions he [Herakles] killed her [Hydra], disembowelled her, and dipped his arrows in her gall; and so whatever later he hit with his arrows did not escape death, and later he himself perished in Phrygia from the same cause."


    Pseudo-Hyginus, Fabulae 34 :

    "[Herakles] pierced Nessus with his arrows. As he died, Nessus, knowing how poisonous the arrows were, since they had been dipped in the gall of the Lernaean Hydra, drew out some of his blood and gave it to Dejanira, telling her it was a love-charm. If she wanted her husband not to desert her, she should have his garments smneared with this blood. Dejanira, believing him, kept it carefully preserved."


    Ovid, Metamorphoses 9. 129 & 158 ff (trans. Melville) (Roman epic C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "An arrow flew [from the bow of Herakles] and pierced the fleeing centaur’s [Nessos’] back: out from his breast the barbed point stuck. He wrenched the shaft away, and blood from both wounds spurted, blood that bore Lernaei’s [Hydra’s] poison. Nessus caught it up. `I’ll not die unavenged’, he thought and gave his shirt soaked in warm gore to Deianira, a talisman, he said, to kindle love.’ . . . [Deianeira, the wife of Herakles, heard rumours that her husband was about to marry Iole] She chose to send the shirt imbued with Nessus’ blood to fortify her husband’s failing love. Not knowing what she gave, she entrusted her sorrow to Lichas (ignorant no less) and charged him with soft words to take it to her lord. And Hercules receiving the gift and on his shoulders wore, in ignorance, Echidna Lernaea’s [Hydra’s] poisoned gore. The flame was lit; he offered words of prayer and incense, pouring on the marble altar wine from the bowl. That deadly force grew warm. Freed by the flame, it seeped and stole along, spreading through all the limbs of Hercules. While he still could, that hero‘s heart of his stifled his groans, but when the agony triumphed beyond endurance, he threw down the altar, and his cries of anguish filled the glades of Oeta. Desperately he tried to tear the fatal shirt away; each tear tore his skin too, and, loathsome to relate, either it stuck, defeating his attempts to free it from his flesh, or else laid bare his lacerated muscles and huge bones. Why, as the poison burned, his very blood bubbled and hissed as when a white-hot blade is quenched in icy water. Never an end! The flames licked inwards, greedy for his guts; dark perspiration streamed from every pore; his scorching sinews crackled; the blind rot melted his marrow . . . In wounded agony he roamed the heights of Oeta [and died escaping pain in the flames of his funeral pyre]."


    Ovid, Heroides 9. 115 ff (trans. Showerman) (Roman poetry C1st B.C. to C1st A.D.) :

    "The darts [of Herakles] blackened with the venom of Lerna."


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 44 (trans. Miller) (Roman tragedy C1st A.D.) :

    "Why, he [Herakles] bears as weapons what he once fought and overcame; he goes armed by lion [i.e. the skin of the Nemeian lion] and by Hydra [i.e. his arrows dipped in its venom]."


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 1194 ff :

    "[Herakles' mourns his sons, felled by his own arrows :] `What of that shaft, still dripping with the blood of boys? It has been dipped in Hydra’s gore--ah, now my own weapons do I recognize. No need to ask the hand that used them! Who could have bent the bow or what hand drawn the string which scarce yields to me?'"


    Z26.1B HYDRA,
    HERACLES
    S26.9 HYDRA,
    HERACLES

    HYDRA GUARDIAN OF HADES

    Virgil, Aeneid 6. 287 ff (trans. Fairclough) (Roman epic C1st B.C.) :
    "Many monstrous forms besides of various beasts are stalled at the doors [of Haides], Centauri and double-shaped Scyllae, and the hundredfold Briareus, and the beast of Lerna, hissing horribly, and the Chimaera armed with flame, Gorgones and Harpyiae, and the shape of the three-bodied shade [Geryon]."


    Seneca, Hercules Furens 776 ff (trans. Miller) (Roman tragedy C1st A.D.) :

    "The craft [of Kharon], ample for whole nations, sinks low beneath one man [Herakles, journeying to Haides] . . . Then the [shades of the] monsters he had conquered are in a panic, the fierce Centaurs and the Lapithae whom too much wine had inflamed to war; and, seeking the farthest fens of the Stygian swamp, Lerna’s labour plunges deep his fertile heads."


    Valerius Flaccus, Argonautica 3. 224 (trans. Mozley) (Roman epic C1st A.D.) :

    "[The Titan] Coeus in the lowest pit [of Tartaros] burst the adamantine bonds and trailing Jove’s [Zeus’[ fettering chains . . . conceives a hope of scaling heaven, yet though he repass the rivers and the gloom the hound of the Furiai [Kerberos] and the sprawling Hydra’s crest [the two guardians of Haides] repel him."


    Statius, Silvae 2. 1. 228 ff (trans. Mozley) (Roman poetry C1st A.D.) :

    "Neither the ferryman [Kharon] nor the comrade [the Hydra] of the cruel beast [Kerberos] bars the way [to the Underworld] to innocent souls."


    Statius, Silvae 5. 3. 260 ff :

    "But do ye, O monarchs of the dead and thou, Ennean Juno [Persephone], if ye approve my prayer [provide a peaceful journey for the soul of my dead father] . . . let the warder of the gate [Kerberos] make no fierce barking, let distant vales conceal the Centauri and Hydra’s multitude and Scylla’s monstrous horde [other monsters appointed guardians of Haides after their deaths]."

    Last edited by Aylen; 02-15-2014 at 09:05 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Revelation 13:3


    And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.


    - King James Bible "Authorized Version", Cambridge Edition

    http://www.biblestudytools.com/revel...3-compare.html

     

    Revelation 13

    King James Version (KJV)

    13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
    4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
    6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
    7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
    9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
    10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
    14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
    15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




     

    HYDRA LERNAIA was a gigantic, nine-headed water-serpent, which haunted the swamps of Lerna. Herakles was sent to destroy her as one of his twelve labours, but for each of her heads that he decapitated, two more sprang forth. So with the help of Iolaos, he applied burning brands to the severed stumps, cauterizing the wounds and preventing regeneration. In the battle he also crushed agiant crab beneath his heel which had come to assist Hydra. The Hydra and the Crab were afterwards placed amongst the stars by Hera as the Constellations Hydra and Cancer
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-15-2014 at 08:53 PM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Heathens...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Just so it's clear... is that a directive? Or your choice of Gods?
    What I have learned on this site is, it is whatever you want it to be.

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    I like the word
     


    Oft times used as an insult by Christians against people who don’t worship their god. They tend to confuse Atheism, Paganism and Heathenism. Atheism is of course a lack of belief in any gods. Paganism is an umbrella term for many polytheistic non-Abrahamic religions. Whereas a heathen is one who practices the pre-Christian religion of the ancient Germanic people. They worship the Germanic and Norse gods and goddess’.


    Heathens are hard polytheists, meaning they believe each god and goddess is a real and distinct individual not an aspect or archetype of a greater being. Besides the major gods spoken of in the lore, there are also local gods, ancestral spirits, and various sorts of wights. To a heathen reading and understanding one’s heritage is very important, this is why there is such a heavy emphasis placed on reading the sagas. Heathens take their religion very seriously.


    Heathens have a very complex idea of the soul and of the afterlife (even though not much emphasis is placed on the here after as is in Christianity). In Norse Mythology humans were created from living and organic matter, not dead earth. The soul is made up of many parts, some that are passed down through the generations, all of which come together in a certain place and time to form a unique person. Some parts of the soul pre-exist this life, some parts continue to live on, and some perish upon death. There are nine worlds in Norse Mythology, Midgard which is Earth, Asgard which is were the Aesir dwell, Hel which is the realm of the dead (not to be confused with the Christian notion of fiery Hell), Ljossalheim (Means Light Elf Home), which is where the demigods and divinized ancestral spirits dwell (these would be the home of elves), Svartalfheim (meaning Dark Elf Home), similar in that ancestral spirits and demigods dwell here as well but has to do more with emotional than intellectual spirits (this would be the home of dwarves), Vanaheim which is where the Vanir dwell, Jotunheim this is where the giants live, and Muspellsheim and Nifelheim are the worlds of fire and ice respectively.


    Another concept which makes Heathen’s unique is that of the Wyrd. Basically that you weave your own fate by the actions you take in life. Every action that you take or don’t take effects your wyrd. There is no forgiveness (or sin for that matter), if you wrong someone you must take action to make amends and set what is wrong right.


    Many Heathens go by the Nine Noble Virtues which are Hospitality, Courage, Truth, Loyalty, Honor, Self Reliance, Perseverance, and Discipline.
    Wicca is a Pagan religion whereas Asatru is Heathen.


    Edit: I definitely vibe with some heathens.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I like the word
     


    Oft times used as an insult by Christians against people who don’t worship their god. They tend to confuse Atheism, Paganism and Heathenism. Atheism is of course a lack of belief in any gods. Paganism is an umbrella term for many polytheistic non-Abrahamic religions. Whereas a heathen is one who practices the pre-Christian religion of the ancient Germanic people. They worship the Germanic and Norse gods and goddess’.


    Heathens are hard polytheists, meaning they believe each god and goddess is a real and distinct individual not an aspect or archetype of a greater being. Besides the major gods spoken of in the lore, there are also local gods, ancestral spirits, and various sorts of wights. To a heathen reading and understanding one’s heritage is very important, this is why there is such a heavy emphasis placed on reading the sagas. Heathens take their religion very seriously.


    Heathens have a very complex idea of the soul and of the afterlife (even though not much emphasis is placed on the here after as is in Christianity). In Norse Mythology humans were created from living and organic matter, not dead earth. The soul is made up of many parts, some that are passed down through the generations, all of which come together in a certain place and time to form a unique person. Some parts of the soul pre-exist this life, some parts continue to live on, and some perish upon death. There are nine worlds in Norse Mythology, Midgard which is Earth, Asgard which is were the Aesir dwell, Hel which is the realm of the dead (not to be confused with the Christian notion of fiery Hell), Ljossalheim (Means Light Elf Home), which is where the demigods and divinized ancestral spirits dwell (these would be the home of elves), Svartalfheim (meaning Dark Elf Home), similar in that ancestral spirits and demigods dwell here as well but has to do more with emotional than intellectual spirits (this would be the home of dwarves), Vanaheim which is where the Vanir dwell, Jotunheim this is where the giants live, and Muspellsheim and Nifelheim are the worlds of fire and ice respectively.


    Another concept which makes Heathen’s unique is that of the Wyrd. Basically that you weave your own fate by the actions you take in life. Every action that you take or don’t take effects your wyrd. There is no forgiveness (or sin for that matter), if you wrong someone you must take action to make amends and set what is wrong right.


    Many Heathens go by the Nine Noble Virtues which are Hospitality, Courage, Truth, Loyalty, Honor, Self Reliance, Perseverance, and Discipline.
    Wicca is a Pagan religion whereas Asatru is Heathen.


    Edit: I definitely vibe with some heathens.
    Heretic! off with your head!

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    just about to watch this, which is relevant....


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...r_Bible_Truth/

    not sure what will crop up but will research anything exciting

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Heretic! off with your head!
    but, but, the devil made me do it! I am innocent.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    matter is neither created nor destroyed.
    all humans are an existent within existence
    all matter is connected and each living thing as a portrait of the uuunNNIIIVERSE <3 (as it is presently)
    so.. that's why you'll never see anything that looks like it came from the completely wrong time. because the universe won't allow it. it's all like, "nah, i'm over that phase. time to move on"
    until one day when time travel is created.
    so like, when you dies, it's cause you're out of style in the universe's opinion.
    so we don't really NEED science cause so long as you IN, you ain't gonna die. hear me

    but i still don't wanna live in a hut or anything.
    It's true through repeated observation that matter cannot truly be created or destroyed, but it cannot be said that we know for certain this is true where it actually matters! (i.e. at the Beginning and End)

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    @rat1: Once again, those weren't primary sources. And I'm
    not sure what you meant to show me by that. I know there's a lot of symbology behind the term "lamb", but what's the deal with astrology?
    A primary source about what people believed about the star signs would be e.g. the Phainomena by Aratos. There it says about Aries basically only that he's pretty fast and runs through the sky.

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    By the way, @rat1, not only the Christians burned books. Yes, they destroyed the library of Alexandria. But others enjoyed destroying books, too. Alexander the Great already destroyed a lot. Later Emperor Augustus burned all the magical books in Rome. Those that still remain today are thanks to Christians who copied them.

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    I mostly blame the Rastafarians and the Adamites

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    @rat1: Another thing, the Hebrew word more often used for lambs, especially sacrificial lambs is another one: http://biblehub.com/hebrew/hasseh_7716.htm

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    THe Rig Veda I quoted you, written in 2000 BC, is a primary source. The attributes of Aries are talked about extensively in the links. Aries has many attributes. It's fiery, it's the exaltation point of the sun (jesus is the sun king), it's the first sign, it's associated with new undertakings, new beginnings, pioneering, holy war, innocence, righteousness, spring... Many attributes.
    There are multiple Hebrew words for lamb.
    Aries is the ram and the lamb.
    If you don't believe it then... that's all. There's nothing left to say.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-16-2014 at 01:29 PM.

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    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    yeah....

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    Coming back to the original topic, the discussion what the scripture says about "hell", I provide you with an overview of scripture passages that speak about the invisible world, the hereafter, netherworld, whatever you want to call it (but only the negative aspects of it):

    1. Sheol

    Genesis 37:35, 42:38, 44:29, 44:31
    Numbers 16:30, 16:33
    Deutoronomy 32:22
    1 Samuel 2:6
    2 Samuel 22:6
    1 Kings 2:6, 2:9
    Job 7:9, 11:8, 14:13, 17:13, 17:16, 21:13, 24:19, 26:6
    Psalms 6:6, 9:18, 16:10, 18:6, 30:4, 31:18, 49:15 (two times), 49:16, 55:16, 86:13, 88:4, 89:49, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7
    Proverbs 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11, 15:24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16
    Ecclesiastes 9:10
    Song of Songs 8:6
    Isaiah 5:14, 14:9, 14:11, 14:15, 28:15, 28:18, 38:10, 38:18. 57:9
    Ezekiel 31:15, 31:16, 31:17, 32:21, 32:27
    Hosea 13:14 (two times)
    Amos 9:2
    Jona 2:3
    Habakuk 2:5

    => overall 65 times the word "Sheol" is mentioned in the Old Testament.
    Conclusions which can be drawn from those passages:
    - The righteous and the unjust people were both believed to enter the Sheol after their death
    - Despite the fact that good as well as bad people enter the Sheol, the place seems to be worse for bad people
    - There are indications for levels in the Sheol
    - The Sheol's direction is downwards, never upwards
    - The Sheol is a place where people are fully conscious
    - The Sheol is not a place distant from God, God is the authority there

    2. Hades

    Matthew 11:23, 16:18
    Luke 10:15, 16:23
    Acts 2:27, 2:31
    Revelations 1:18, 6:8, 20:13, 20:14

    Conclusions:
    - "Hades" in the New Testament is the same place as "Sheol" in the Old Testament, because Acts 2:27, 2:31 are translations of Psalms 16:10
    - Hades is a place for righteous as well as unjust people
    - The Hades seems to have two main levels, one for good and one for bad people
    - For unjust people the Hades was a really bad place
    - The Hades is downwards
    - The Hades is a place of full consciousness
    - Being in the Hades is limited by time

    3. Abaddon

    Job 26:6, 28:22, 31:12
    Psalms 88:11
    Proverbs 15:11, 27:20
    Revelations 9:11

    Conclusions:
    - In some passages it exist in parallel to Sheol.
    - It's always used in a negative way.
    - It's probably one of the levels inside the Sheol/Hades for unjust people

    4. The pit

    Job 33:18, 33:24, 33:30
    Psalms 16:10, 28:1, 30:4, 30:10, 88:5, 143:7
    Proverbs 1:12
    Isaiah 14:15, 38:18
    Ezekiel 26:20, 28:8, 31:14, 31:16, 32:18, 32:23, 32:24, 32:25, 32:29, 32:30

    Conclusions:
    - Always used negatively
    - Always downwards
    - Probably an alternative word for "Abaddon"

    5. The abyss

    Luke 8:31
    Romans 10:7
    Revelations 9:1, 9:2, 9:11, 11:7. 17:8, 20:1, 20:3

    Conclusions:
    - Always downwards
    - Related to fallen angels or demons
    - It's a prison for demons and fallen angels and a level inside the Sheol

    6. Tartaros

    2 Peter 2:4

    Conclusions:
    - A dark place, related to the level for unjust people inside the Hades/Sheol
    - Related to fallen angels just like the abyss
    - Related to a special group of fallen angels from the time of Noah
    - Probably the same fallen angels as mentioned in Judas 6:7
    - Probably the same as the "sons of God" (who sired the Nephilim) mentioned in Genesis 1:6
    - The place where those kind of fallen angels are imprisoned forever

    7. Hell

    There's no word like "hell" in the Bible. It's a translation of the word "Hades", but is an old-Norse word describing the netherworld "hel".

    8. Gehenna

    Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 23:33
    Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47
    Luke 12:5
    James 3:6

    Conclusions:
    - An eternal place for the condemned, humans as well as angels
    - A place of torture for body and soul
    - Eternal torture, that will never come to an end
    - Related to fire

    9. The lake of fire

    Revelations 19:20, 20:10, 20:14, 20:15, 21:7

    Conclusions:
    - Eternal place for condemned people, humans as wells as angels
    - Torture for body and soul
    - Probably the same as Gehenna
    - Related to fire and brimstone

    The one who collected those scripture passages and interpreted them is Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, I took that from his book "Personal Eschatology". But it's a good overview over all the parts in the scripture that talk about what we call "hell".

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    And here's a graphic of how it works:


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    This is Gehenna:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
    It's not a lake of fire.
    All the attributes you've associated with biblical places of damnation are allusionary emotions recorded by hebrew priests practicing occultism. They should not be interpreted literally. They CAN be interpreted emotionally.

    There are so many astrologically inspired metaphors in the book of revelation (practically the entire book) any literal interpretation of the 'lake of fire' referenced there I cannot take seriously. Neither do i take 'the beast' thrown into the lake to be a literal beast that will emerge from the ocean. If you think that's literal then ... I don't know. What to say.
    Even in the book it says the beast is a man...
    It's metaphors.

    When the priests wrote many of these biblical books they were actually high on holy mushrooms. The Hebrew Priests were taught about the zodiac. They were taught about numerology, too.
    What do you think '666' in revelation came from? It's numerology. The whole bible is full of numerology embedded into it by the Hebrew priests who wrote it ...

    Here's a great link on the numerological basis for the word 'Yahweh' or 'YHWH':
    http://www.goldennumber.net/tetragrammaton/
    Last edited by rat1; 02-17-2014 at 05:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    And here's a graphic of how it works:

    Thats pretty interesting Kadda, did you make that graph yourself or is it from the source you cited?

    I watched a program last night on bible hunters and wondered if you/the source have taken the passages from the bible as most people currently have or the original bibles of the new testament of the sinai bible, (thought to be the oldest bible in known existence).

    I find the scholastic side of religion fascinating.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    In the worldview of the pre-Christian northern Europeans, life is eternal. But not in the sense that most people today automatically think of when they hear that phrase; rather, the particular bundle of fragmentary parts that you call your “self” dissolves into its components, who then go on to vitalize your descendents and their world, just as your rotting corpse nourishes the beings around it – worms, bugs, trees, flowers. Death is a threshold in the wider process of life, not so much an end as a continuance and a transformation...http://norse-mythology.org/concepts/...the-afterlife/

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Thats pretty interesting Kadda, did you make that graph yourself or is it from the source you cited?

    I watched a program last night on bible hunters and wondered if you/the source have taken the passages from the bible as most people currently have or the original bibles of the new testament of the sinai bible, (thought to be the oldest bible in known existence).

    I find the scholastic side of religion fascinating.
    It's from the source I cited. I copied it, because I only had the German version of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat1 View Post
    This is Gehenna:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
    It's not a lake of fire.
    All the attributes you've associated with biblical places of damnation are allusionary emotions recorded by hebrew priests practicing occultism. They should not be interpreted literally. They CAN be interpreted emotionally.

    There are so many astrologically inspired metaphors in the book of revelation (practically the entire book) any literal interpretation of the 'lake of fire' referenced there I cannot take seriously. Neither do i take 'the beast' thrown into the lake to be a literal beast that will emerge from the ocean. If you think that's literal then ... I don't know. What to say.
    Even in the book it says the beast is a man...
    It's metaphors.

    When the priests wrote many of these biblical books they were actually high on holy mushrooms. The Hebrew Priests were taught about the zodiac. They were taught about numerology, too.
    What do you think '666' in revelation came from? It's numerology. The whole bible is full of numerology embedded into it by the Hebrew priests who wrote it ...

    Here's a great link on the numerological basis for the word 'Yahweh' or 'YHWH':
    http://www.goldennumber.net/tetragrammaton/
    I know enough about numerology. It was quite popular in the 1st century to translate names into numbers, and thus "666" can be translated to emperor Nero. Because some texts read "616" it's quite clear that people believed the same during that time, but they wrote Nero's name in a different way, hence the difference.

    Still I wouldn't say it's all metaphors. Metaphors resemble something, some things can be take literal though.
    It may be that the Jews learned a lot about astrology during the captivity of Babylon and that influenced what they wrote.
    The book of Revelations is an entire different thing though, because it was written much later. The writing style is the typical Hebrew holistic writing style, so it mixes past, present and future events. Time doesn't matter. It also tells the same story three times from three different perspectives: God, humans and devil's perspective. Thus the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls are always the same event.
    The beast is of course not a real beast, the many heads could represent different people, nations, I don't know. It could be one person or a union of many people. In Revelations 12 though it's Satan that falls and takes with him 2/3 of the stars which represent angels. And that refers to a past event.
    It's a totally different writing style compared to Acts for example, which is Hellenistic history writing.

    Well, but if you believe, all the people who wrote the Bible were on drugs, why even discuss this whole topic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    It's from the source I cited. I copied it, because I only had the German version of it.
    do you know which version of the bible they are taken from?

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    Well, but if you believe, all the people who wrote the Bible were on drugs, why even discuss this whole topic?
    Well it's not a belief based purely on faith. There is evidence. Mostly compiled by an archaeologist whose career was studying the dead sea scrolls, John Marco Allegro:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marco_Allegro
    Here's the book he wrote about his findings:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sac..._and_the_Cross
    Of course the church establishment went on discredit and defame him. Nonetheless he spoke the truth of what he found.

    Have you ever taken mushrooms? Many people do feel their trip is a holy experience... I agree, it is.
    There are many religious ceremonies based on taking mushrooms. Many Native American / South American Tribal Cultures, and in the 'fertility cults' Allegro talks about being theological predecessors to Christianity:
    http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushroo...s_spirit.shtml

    Satan is another deity not part of the original hebrew bible.
    Revelation WAS written alot later and its esoteric references are overwhelming.

    EDIT: I do suggest you take mushrooms at least once.


    EDITx2: transcendental meditation, mind altering experiences (shrooms) can help to arrive at higher spiritual awareness. I don't discount revelation induced by mushrooms. Point is the material produced isn't literal.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-17-2014 at 11:58 PM.

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    So much symbolism that correlates to many mythologies.
     


    Revelation 12

    New International Version (NIV)

    The Woman and the Dragon

    12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
    7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
    “Now have come the salvation and the power
    and the kingdom of our God,
    and the authority of his Messiah.
    For the accuser of our brothers and sisters,
    who accuses them before our God day and night,
    has been hurled down.
    11 They triumphed over him
    by the blood of the Lamb
    and by the word of their testimony;
    they did not love their lives so much
    as to shrink from death.
    12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens
    and you who dwell in them!
    But woe to the earth and the sea,
    because the devil has gone down to you!
    He is filled with fury,
    because he knows that his time is short.”

    13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


    It's really beautiful.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    I know enough about numerology. It was quite popular in the 1st century to translate names into numbers, and thus "666" can be translated to emperor Nero. Because some texts read "616" it's quite clear that people believed the same during that time, but they wrote Nero's name in a different way, hence the difference.
    When you say it was 'popular in the 1st century', you treat numerology like a fad that came and passed. But there's numerology systems in many different cultures. Chaldean, Vedic, Chinese, Egyptian, Hebrew. It's embedded in language, religions, it's still widely practiced in eastern countries, in different cults & high societies... and by mystics. Anyone who studies the occult studies numerology.
    The Hebrews were obsessed with numerology. Their entire language is built using numerology as a foundation. Letters had numerical meaning, words were compounded meaning...
    Sanskrit also was constructed this way, and many vedic scriptures construct their words 'God' (like the yahweh link I gave you) with numbers.
    The tree of life, the basis of kabbalism, is numerology. If you don't know what Kabbalism is, it's the religious practices of the Jewish priesthood; i.e., the people who wrote the bible. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/kabbalism
    Numerology in the bible is not just found in names. It is everywhere. How couldn't it be? The entire Hebrew language is built using numbers.
    http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gra...s_numbers.html

    Just look at the Hebrew 1st letter, Aleph, corresponded to #1:
    [I]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph#Hebrew

    "Rabbinic Judaism (Kabbalists, people who wrote the bible)
    Aleph is the subject of a midrash
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midrash
    which praises its humility in not demanding to start the Bible. (In Hebrew the Bible begins with the second letter of the alphabet, Bet.) In this folktale, Aleph is rewarded by being allowed to start the Ten Commandments. (In Hebrew, the first word is אָנֹכִי, which starts with an aleph.)
    In the Sefer Yetzirah, the letter aleph is king over breath, formed air in the universe, temperate in the year, and the chest in the soul.
    Aleph is also the first letter of the Hebrew word emet, which means truth. In Jewish mythology it was the letter aleph that was carved into the head of the golem which ultimately gave it life.
    Aleph also begins the three words that make up God's mystical name in Exodus, I Am who I Am (in Hebrew, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh אהיה אשר אהיה), and aleph is an important part of mystical amulets and formulas.
    Aleph in Jewish mysticism represents the oneness of God. The letter can been seen as being composed of an upper yud (Yodh), a lower yud, and a vav (Waw (letter)) leaning on a diagonal. The upper yud represents the hidden and ineffable aspects of God while the lower yud represents God's revelation and presence in the world. The vav ("hook") connects the two realms.
    Jewish mysticism relates aleph to the element of air, the Fool (Key 0, value 1) of the major arcana of the tarot deck,[3] and the Scintillating Intelligence (#11) of the path between Kether and Chokmah in the Tree of the Sephiroth."


    The Jews were insane in alot of ways.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-18-2014 at 12:37 AM.

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    Does this mean I have to give up my numerology? Nope not gonna.

     


    The Divine Number 12
    12 Gods, 12 Disciples, 12 Tribes and the Zodiac


    Starting out life as an immensely useful number for counting and dividing things, the number 12 became a number revered by mathematicians and early astronomers. So the skies were divided into 12 portions as were the months of year, reflecting the annual movement of heavenly bodies. Superstitions and religious beliefs were piled on top of respect for the number 12. Superstitions concerning signs of the Zodiac and life events have been comprehensively shown to be false. The ancient Zoroastrians had twelve commanders on the side of light (light being a symbol for the sun), the Greeks imagined 12 Gods on mount Olympus, and many Gods have had 12 sons. Mithraists, and then Christians, believed that their saviour had 12 disciples, and Muslim Shi'as list 12 ruling Imams following Muhammad. Such holy persons are depicted with a bright solar light around their heads. Although many ancient religions such as the Gnostics understood things like the twelve disciples of Mithras to be symbolic of the stages of the waning and waxing sun throughout the year, later religions took it literally and believed in an actual 12 disciples - and some still do.



    1. The Mathematics

    The number 12 is a highly respected and practical number. It has many factors for such a low number, so it is one of the lowest easily-divisible numbers. Number 11 is not divisible, number 10 only has two factors (2 and 5) meaning that if you measure anything in tens, you can only divide it into either halves or pairs. Number 9 only divides into 3, number 8 only into 2 and 4, number 7 is a prime number with no factors, number 6 only breaks down into half or thirds, number 5 is a prime, you can only halve number 4 or 2, and 3 and 1 don't divide and are so small you wouldn't want to measure things in them, anyway. Number 12, however, divides into 6, 4, 3 and 2, giving it a large number of practical uses where things have to be divided up into whole numbers, from calendars to clocks. As a result of all these factors, mathematicians get excited about the number 12 and apparently, they always have done! For example, Pythagoras, the classical mathematics genius, teacher, and leader of a pagan religious movement, taught that the number 12 had divine, profound mystical meaning1.
    We will see from this usefulness and roundness has arisen first respect, then awe, and finally superstitions based on the number 12. It all starts with telling the time and star-gazing.
    2. The Zodiac

    2.1. Dividing the Stars and Heavens Into 12 Constellations

    The oldest preserved zodiac dates from 3000CE when the Sumerians in Mesopotamia developed their Zodiac based on twelve heavenly bodies they could see, such as planets. Sumerian government always composed of twelve people. The Babylonians, with their numbering system of 60, found the number 12 to be practical and useful for calendars and times. The author of "Science: A Four Thousand Year History", Patricia Fara, says "the Babylonians split the heavens into twelve equal sections, one for each lunar month and carrying the name of a prominent constellation. Translated into Latin, these now exist as the twelve signs of the zodiac familiar from newspaper horoscopes, such as Aries the Ram and Taurus the Bull"2. This idea was passed on from culture to culture:
    The notion of the zodiac is very ancient, with roots in the early cultures of Mesopotamia. The first 12-sign zodiacs were named after the gods of these cultures. The Greeks adopted astrology from the Babylonians, and the Romans, in turn, adopted astrology from the Greeks. These peoples renamed the signs of the Mesopotamian zodiac in terms of their own mythologies, which is why the familiar zodiac of the contemporary West bears names from Mediterranean mythology.
    Further East, the Chinese zodiac also had twelve divisions; although they were different to the common ones that Western culture adopted from the Sumerians.
    2.2. The 12 Heavenly Gods

    Frequently there were also twelve superior gods. The ancient Zoroastrian holy book, the Menok i Xrat, says that the "twelve Signs of the Zodiac, as the Religion says, are the twelve commanders on the side of light"4. These commanders fight against evil in a battle for the fate of the world. The star-gazers and sun-worshippers of the ancient world would be proud that they were followed by a long series of cultures that imagined a collection of twelve gods:
    “Among all the gods worshipped by the Greeks, the twelve deities who dwelt on Mt Olympus, the highest mountain in Greece, formed a special category of their own. The gods of Olympus were usually taken to be Zeus, Hera, Athena, Poseidon, Apollo, Artemis, Demeter, Hermes, Aphrodite, Ares, Hephaestus and Hestia. In certain local variations, positions among the 'twelve' were occupied by Pluto, Dionysus, Heracles or other local cult heroes.”
    "Greek Mythology and Religion" by Maria Mavromataki (1997)5
    Some Gods had twelve sons, and some sun gods had 12 disciples to spread the message across the world that the sun wasn't dead; it was rising again in the sky in spring, after being defeated in autumn.
    2.3. The 12 Stations of Life in Buddhism

    As the division of the divine realm into 12 areas was based on the original stellar usefulness of the number, non-godly religions also developed mystical systems that divided existence into 12 parts. Buddhists hold that life is composed of 12 stages, which together keep the wheel of life turning, ensnaring all life in a samsaric (cyclic) form of existence from which it is hard to escape.
    “The Buddhist teaching on samsaric existence is [...] depicted in the Wheel of Becoming. [...] The rim of the wheel is divided into twelve segments and scenes. These show how beings pass from one realm to another, and are call the nidanas. [...] These scenes depict Buddhist teaching on Dependent Origination: the causal chain which ensures that the Wheel of Samara keeps revolving.”
    "Buddhism" by Clive Erricker (1995)6
    3. The 12 Tribes of Israel, 12 Disciples of God

    As the stars are divided into twelve, it is only natural to presume that Human communities can be divided into twelve geographical locations, and each one administered by a different personification of the Sun. The Signs of the Zodiac became Leaders; it was thought their influence over the lives of individual people could be worked out through a mixture of planet-watching and confused mysticism. The legacy that such lunacy left us was a deep-rooted religious tradition that the affairs of mankind are rightfully led by twelve leaders. As in (the heavens) heaven, so on Earth. Odin, for example, who sat on a chair that overlooked all of creation, has 12 sons7. Many sun-worshipping religions had their god-man figure gather twelve disciples, one for each division of space. The prime example is Mithras, the half-god half-human saviour of Mithraism, a Roman mystery religion. In keeping with other developed sun-worshipping religions, the saviour (Mithras) is depicted in drawing with an aurora behind his head, representing the sun.
    This pagan history crept into many religions; in Judaism mythology Jacob had 12 sons, who went on to procreate the twelve tribes of Israel, god's chosen people (God being the sun, with twelve divisions). So, asChristianity arose out of Judaism, it too inherited the reverence of the number 12. Jesus had 12 disciples. Early Gnostic Christians accepted this as a symbolic and figurative account, but later Pauline Christians took it all literally. Later still, Shi'a Muslims would list twelve ruling Imams who succeeded Muhammad.
    Jesus surrounds himself with 12 disciples. This is usually taken to be symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel. This notion of 12 tribes, however, is itself a symbolic reference to the 12 signs of the zodiac in Babylonian astrology, which the Jews adopted whilst in exile in Babylon. The zodiac was an extremely important symbol in the Pagan world. Osiris-Dionysis is symbolically represented as the still spiritual center of the turning wheel of change represented by the 12 signs. [...] [In] the Mysteries of Mithras 12 disciples surrounded the godman, just as the 12 disciples surrounded Jesus. The Mithraic disciples were dressed up to represent the 12 signs of the zodiac and circled the initiate, who represented Mithras himself.
    "The Jesus Mysteries"
    Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy (1999) [Book Review]1
    Other religious scholars such as "Robertson, Niemojewski, Volney and others" also hold that "as son-god Jesus had twelve apostles representing the twelve houses of the zodiac"8.
    Islam became another Abrahamic religion to accept the traditional division of the land and power into 12 areas. Qur'an 5:12 says God appointed twelve leaders to the people of Israel. Qur'an 2:60 and 7:160 tell a slightly odd story which states that God and the angels divided Israel into 12 distinct tribes. The people asked for water, so, Moses was told to strike a rock with his staff. This piece of magic resulted in 12 rivers springing from the rock, and each tribe "knew where to get its own water". This odd radial division of land and people is purely mythical; nowhere are there 12 rivers stemming from one rocky source, and, never have the Hebrews been divided into 12 tribes each with its own source of water. This story clearly has astrological and mythological meaning rather than literal meaning.9
    4. Horoscopes

    In the largest study ever undertaken of horoscopes, David Voas looked at over ten million married couples:
    “Even the smallest tendency for Virgos to fancy Capricorns or for Libras to like Leos would be apparent in the statistics. If only one pair in a thousand is influenced by the stars, we would see ten thousand more couples than expected with certain combinations of signs. In fact, the numbers are just what we'd predict based on chance.”
    Prof. David Voas (2008)10
    People's astrological signs do not predict success in marriage. But this complete lack of correlation does beg one more question: If people believe in astrology, it seems at first that a certain effect should be apparent. If all Virgos thought they had a better chance with a Taurus and married accordingly, it should show up. How come this sociological effect is not even apparent in the statistics? The reason is that horoscope advice is random. With so many columns giving so many contradictory opinions, choices made by them are as good as random choices. So not only are the predictions random in nature, leading to random choices that people merely thinkare meaningful, but, the results of unions are completely unrelated to astrological signs.
    Why do some people come to conclude that such random advice means anything? Social psychologists have been studying questions such as this for some time.
    Certain beliefs or suppositions imply a similarity between two entities: A child should look like his or her parents, identical twins should behave alike, or a personality description ought to resemble the person it describes. However if the two entities are sufficiently complex, then mapping one onto the other will almost certainly produce a number of points of overlap, and the expectation will appear to be confirmed. [...]The Barnum effect refers to the tendency for people to accept as uncannily descriptive of themselves the same generally worded assessment, as long as they believe it was written specifically for them on the basis of some "diagnostic" instrument such as a horoscope or personality inventory.”
    The critical thinker Carl Sagan did not have access to a database of ten million marriages, but he did conclude from two other lines of reasoning that the planets do not influence our lives12:

    • The contradictory entries in newspapers.
    • Twins often have different fates and lives.

    5. Conclusions

    When you see the number twelve, watch out. If the number is employed in a practical sense to divide time, measurements, or angles, then the chances are it makes awesome mathematical sense to utilize such a factorable number as the number twelve. But if you see it used in a superstitious, religious, magical, paranormal, holy or weird way, be warned that it is based on ancient sun-worship, star warship, and ridiculous astrology. As a species we have been using it to divide the solar realm into twelve divisions, assuming that each one is ruled by a personification, a god, a divine being, a teacher, a prophet or a son of the sun. Now we understand what stars, planets and stellar objects are, it makes no sense to retain the mystical, nonsensical connotations of the 'holy', 'perfect', 'divine' or 'special' number 12. Such superstitions have made their way into major religions; there are 12 tribes of Israel as founded by the 12 sons of Jacob, the 12 disciples of Mithras and Christ, the 12 Gods of Olympus and according to Shi'a Muslims, 12 successors to Muhammad. Applaud the usefulness of number 12... but watch out for those who are deluded by the pagan, irrational, magical and nonsensical claims made about it! It is, after all, only a number.


    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
    YWIMW

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    lol.
    It is an interesting artform, much like astrology. The Hebrews were insane because their system, to me, is arbitrary ... and they seem to get caught up in their dogma. I just don't like the way they constructed the letters and the meanings they attached to them. Or how they assign the trumps to hebrew letters... makes no sense, at all.
    There is a fine line between this type of knowledge, genius and insanity.

    EDIT: The tree of life, though, is very good stuff. The Sephiroth themselves... I do not like their ideas of the origination of the universe.

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    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung
     
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    hahaaaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    do you know which version of the bible they are taken from?
    Well, I'm not sure. He's only looking out for the words in Hebrew and Greek. The Sinai Codex is completely in Greek. But I guess someone like him would use a critical edition of the Bible. In philology we always use critical texts which include alternative readings.

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    @rat1, I only pointed it that numerology was very popular in that one special way during the time the Revelations were written. I did not say that it wasn't also popular in other times and cultures.

    Besides that, don't tell me how I have to lead my life. You are in no position to do so.

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    I offended you by telling you to try mushrooms once? Lolz.
    Bible is numerology and astrology. Have a nice lie.
    Last edited by rat1; 02-18-2014 at 07:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    Well, I'm not sure. He's only looking out for the words in Hebrew and Greek. The Sinai Codex is completely in Greek. But I guess someone like him would use a critical edition of the Bible. In philology we always use critical texts which include alternative readings.
    Yah I'm just always suspicious of references made to 'the bible' or other holy texts without clear keys for which exact versions being used. If you youself, having read the book are unsure it does not fill me with confidence. I think sources are often debatable even when they appear rock solid.

    So much confusion in interpretation and opinion.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Yah I'm just always suspicious of references made to 'the bible' or other holy texts without clear keys for which exact versions being used. If you youself, having read the book are unsure it does not fill me with confidence. I think sources are often debatable even when they appear rock solid.

    So much confusion in interpretation and opinion.
    Yeah, I know what you mean. At least I can check everything, cause I have multiple versions of study Bibles in my house. The German translation I'm using for my personal Bible reading is the Elberfelder translation, quite close to the original Hebrew and Greek texts. But I'm planning to buy myself a Greek critical version of the New Testament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rat1 View Post
    I offended you by telling you to try mushrooms once? Lolz.
    Bible is numerology and astrology. Have a nice lie.
    Oh, I don't know if I should be offended because of that, my dear little rat1. Truth is I don't care much at all.

    It just pisses me off whenever people who pretend to be so open-minded and overly spiritual, in fact draw a picture of themselves that is the exact opposite: a narrow minded person who can't stand that others believe in different things than themselves. The utmost of intolerance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    It just pisses me off whenever people who pretend to be so open-minded and overly spiritual, in fact draw a picture of themselves that is the exact opposite: a narrow minded person who can't stand that others believe in different things than themselves. The utmost of intolerance.
    Welcome to the16types.info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Welcome to the16types.info.
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kadda1212 View Post
    Oh, I don't know if I should be offended because of that, my dear little rat1. Truth is I don't care much at all.

    It just pisses me off whenever people who pretend to be so open-minded and overly spiritual, in fact draw a picture of themselves that is the exact opposite: a narrow minded person who can't stand that others believe in different things than themselves. The utmost of intolerance.
    If you're open-mindedly wrong then you need to be corrected. If you're teaching a child math and he thinks 2+2=5, you need to correct him.
    Nothing I've said to you thus far, in my opinion, should have offended you. You are choosing to be offended.
    ; )

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