If this is what an SXE is like, then you're doing it wrong.
Under absolutely no circumstance is that woman any kind of sensor. Even Jung's description of Se (let alone Socionic's) has, as its kernel, the full sensory awareness of, if not absolute mastery over, one's physical environment. Prime logistical capabilities are strongly implied in all ST profiles, moreover.
1. This video is made-up. Who knows if this nameless actress is actually prone to forgetfulness.Originally Posted by xerx
2. An Se-ego is really just a person whose brain perceives and processes the "explicit static" properties of various "objects". But in case you disagree with my definitions, even the sociotype.com description of Se-leading disagrees with you:
The individual feels at home among people who are actively doing something and interacting with each other directly (visibly), and is able to organize people, move them around as necessary, and guide them in achieving a specific goal. He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively. He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose. He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him. However, he is willing to make use of other peoples' ideas, advice, and creativity, as long as he plays the most visible role. He enjoys testing his will in challenging situations and views life as a sort of obstacle course, full of adversity and challenges, that must be weathered and conquered.- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i....3EJpjNPj.dpuf
3. Here is the definition of "logistics":
Logistics is the management of the flow of resources between the point of origin and the point of consumption in order to meet some requirements, for example, of customers or corporations. The resources managed in logistics can include physical items, such as food, materials, equipment, liquids, and staff, as well as abstract items, such as time, information, particles, and energy. The logistics of physical items usually involves the integration of information flow, material handling, production, packaging, inventory,transportation, warehousing, and often security. The complexity of logistics can be modeled, analyzed, visualized, and optimized by dedicated simulation software. The minimization of the use of resources is a common motivation in logistics for import and export.
Given this definition, can we really say that an ST with "prime logistical capabilities" is immune to forgetfulness?
Thats an Enneagram 8 description, didnīt you know that Socionics is flawed?
lol socionics isn't flawed, people just don't understand it
That would make it just some Categorisation with very limited application in reality.
How many of them are really SLE and not just some further Socionics nutjobs based on theoretical assumptions?
A person's type defines his or her entire reality.
I believe them to be SLE. You can take it or leave it, though.
Itīs not my intention to bend your view, eihter you realize it or you donīt and others will. Now that it is written on the Internetz it is accessible for everyone.
Who the actress is, is irrelevant to the OP, which was directly referring to her role in that vid (though I'm convinced she is intuitive).
What's the relevance of "explicit static" to what you just quoted? The quote doesn't touch on static anywhere, nor "explicit" ( I assume you mean external ).2. An Se-ego is really just a person whose brain perceives and processes the "explicit static" properties of various "objects". But in case you disagree with my definitions, even the sociotype.com description of Se-leading disagrees with you:
And that's a stupid definition of Se.
Everyone is prone to one or another aspect of the traits mentioned in the video. A function is better modeled as a cluster of traits. The video addressed more than just forgetfulness.3. Here is the definition of "logistics":
Given this definition, can we really say that an ST with "prime logistical capabilities" is immune to forgetfulness?
I'm not sure why you're bringing up some corporate definition of logistics, when the word is being used to refer to the management of the apparatus of day-to-day survival on a personal level.
They don't look anything alike.... VI ...
She's a sensor, sorry.
"Explicit Object Statics" are properties like "weight, height, color, texture, pitch". "External" is the word other people use, but I think "explicit" makes more sense. How can we perceive something that is "internal"? We can perceive something as being "implicit", though.
I agree, hence why I define "Se" as "Explicit Object Statics".
A "function" is a neural network that processes information. A "set" of "functions" constitutes a "type", but "type" does not solely determine "behavior". "Behavior" is the result of all of the brain's operations.
What does "logistics" mean in the context of management of day-to-day affairs, then?
They look plenty alike, you're just being stubborn.
Right, those properties work together to form a complete and confident perception of the physical world, as in the exact opposite of the chick in that video.
I'd avoid making comparisons with real sciences (i.e. "neural networks") if you don't want to sound stupid.A "function" is a neural network that processes information. A "set" of "functions" constitutes a "type", but "type" does not solely determine "behavior". "Behavior" is the result of all of the brain's operations.
It means managing the amenities for survival, taking care to make sure that the smallest details are in order and properly organized. It means having a strong measure of pragmatism (hence the "pragmatists" club) and practicality, regardless of IQ or education.What does "logistics" mean in the context of management of day-to-day affairs, then?
They look nothing alike, you're the one being stubborn. The SLEs look solid, confident, in charge and in control, both over themselves and their surroundings. She looks like a wilted flower stuck in lala land.They look plenty alike, you're just being stubborn.
No, it just means that an Se-ego will notice those things instead of noticing other things.
"Socionics" and "information processing" are both concerned at least in part with "cognition", and "cognition" happens in the "brain". Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for "Brain":
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????Information processing
The invention of electronic computers in the 1940s, along with the development of mathematical information theory, led to a realization that brains can potentially be understood as information processing systems. This concept formed the basis of the field of cybernetics, and eventually gave rise to the field now known as computational neuroscience.[74] The earliest attempts at cybernetics were somewhat crude in that they treated the brain as essentially a digital computer in disguise, as for example in John von Neumann's 1958 book,The Computer and the Brain.[75] Over the years, though, accumulating information about the electrical responses of brain cells recorded from behaving animals has steadily moved theoretical concepts in the direction of increasing realism.[74]
The essence of the information processing approach is to try to understand brain function in terms of information flow and implementation of algorithms.[74] One of the most influential early contributions was a 1959 paper titled What the frog's eye tells the frog's brain: the paper examined the visual responses of neurons in the retina and optic tectum of frogs, and came to the conclusion that some neurons in the tectum of the frog are wired to combine elementary responses in a way that makes them function as "bug perceivers".[76] A few years later David Hubel and Torsten Wiesel discovered cells in the primary visual cortex of monkeys that become active when sharp edges move across specific points in the field of view—a discovery for which they won a Nobel Prize.[77] Follow-up studies in higher-order visual areas found cells that detect binocular disparity, color, movement, and aspects of shape, with areas located at increasing distances from the primary visual cortex showing increasingly complex responses.[78] Other investigations of brain areas unrelated to vision have revealed cells with a wide variety of response correlates, some related to memory, some to abstract types of cognition such as space.[79]
Theorists have worked to understand these response patterns by constructing mathematical models of neurons and neural networks, which can be simulated using computers.[74] Some useful models are abstract, focusing on the conceptual structure of neural algorithms rather than the details of how they are implemented in the brain; other models attempt to incorporate data about the biophysical properties of real neurons.[80] No model on any level is yet considered to be a fully valid description of brain function, though. The essential difficulty is that sophisticated computation by neural networks requires distributed processing in which hundreds or thousands of neurons work cooperatively—current methods of brain activity recording are only capable of isolating action potentials from a few dozen neurons at a time.[81]
Right, but it doesn't necessarily mean "not being forgetful".
"Looks like a wilted flower stuck in lala land" doesn't tell me jack crap about her physical appearance. I'm talking about something like "facial biometrics" here, while you're talking about "vague metaphors".
Yeah... and those things were derived from the core definition of Se as having a strong physical component.
Cognition
First of all, Neural networks are simplified models of neurons and very primitive models of cognition.
Neural networks need to be trained -- through thousands of iterations -- to recognize predefined patterns set by the experimenters. They start out as a tabula rasa and have to learn everything from scratch. Jungian functions are filled out (with room for personal growth) from the get go.
I never said it was. You're the one focusing on it in a moronic attempt to nitpick.Right, but it doesn't necessarily mean "not being forgetful".
In addition to forgetfulness, the video touched on flightyness, flakyness, hyperactivity without purpose, inability to concentrate, inability to follow through, and so on. Traits, TAKEN TOGETHER, one could associate with an EP temperament, but not with the pragmatist's club.
Uh, no. VI is not some modern day phrenology."Looks like a wilted flower stuck in lala land" doesn't tell me jack crap about her physical appearance. I'm talking about something like "facial biometrics" here, while you're talking about "vague metaphors".
Last edited by xerx; 01-26-2014 at 06:14 AM.
*buzzer sounds*
I award you no points.
To anyone wondering what the difference is between Te and Fe: this post is pure Te.
"Explicit Object Dynamics"
Then explain yourself instead of contributing nothing to the thread.
An Se type's concern is that of the explicit impressions an object releases within the psyche, in this sense, yes, they are utterly dependent on an objective orientation to reality.
That in no way precludes any form of obliviosity from an Se type.
not on the scale in the video. unless they have real adhd.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote