Funny Ne video

[xerx]

I relate to most of that.

Before y'all jumps down my throat with ADHD being NTR, the way it's presented here could well be TR.

[Olduvai]

I don't think Ne has anything to do with attention span or forgetfulness, nor do I think the actors are ENFP. Honestly, the female strikes me as SLE.

[Zero11]

I don't think Ne has anything to do with attention span or forgetfulness, nor do I think the actors are ENFP. Honestly, the female strikes me as SLE.

Dude she looks interpretive/soft/intutive that is easily visible, a SLE wouldn´t even look close to that. except the / part which was correct on your side.

snapshot20140126051752.jpg
snapshot20140126051808.jpg

take a look at her chin for example, besides that her complete body is that way even the way she walks

She's SEE

Dual

18953725.jpg

[Olduvai]

Furthermore, VI.

Here is a still picture of the woman from the video:


Here are some Filatova portraits of SLE that I think look similar:

[Aylen]

I don't think Ne has anything to do with attention span or forgetfulness,

I lose my car keys at least once a day. They are found in the weirdest places. Like the fridge or under the couch. I just give a pouty face until someone finds them for me.

[Beautiful sky]

She's SEE

[Olduvai]

She's SEE

No, these people are SEE:

[xerx]

If this is what an SXE is like, then you're doing it wrong.

Under absolutely no circumstance is that woman any kind of sensor. Even Jung's description of Se (let alone Socionic's) has, as its kernel, the full sensory awareness of, if not absolute mastery over, one's physical environment. Prime logistical capabilities are strongly implied in all ST profiles, moreover.

[Olduvai]

If this is what an SXE is like, then you're doing it wrong.

Under absolutely no circumstance is that woman any kind of sensor. Even Jung's description of Se (let alone Socionic's) has, as its kernel, the full sensory awareness of, if not absolute mastery over, one's physical environment. Prime logistical capabilities are strongly implied in all ST profiles, moreover.

1. This video is made-up. Who knows if this nameless actress is actually prone to forgetfulness.
2. An Se-ego is really just a person whose brain perceives and processes the "explicit static" properties of various "objects". But in case you disagree with my definitions, even the sociotype.com description of Se-leading disagrees with you:

The individual feels at home among people who are actively doing something and interacting with each other directly (visibly), and is able to organize people, move them around as necessary, and guide them in achieving a specific goal. He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively. He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose. He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him. However, he is willing to make use of other peoples' ideas, advice, and creativity, as long as he plays the most visible role. He enjoys testing his will in challenging situations and views life as a sort of obstacle course, full of adversity and challenges, that must be weathered and conquered.- See more at: http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/i....3EJpjNPj.dpuf

3. Here is the definition of "logistics":

Logistics is the management of the flow of resources between the point of origin and the point of consumption in order to meet some requirements, for example, of customers or corporations. The resources managed in logistics can include physical items, such as food, materials, equipment, liquids, and staff, as well as abstract items, such as time, information, particles, and energy. The logistics of physical items usually involves the integration of information flow, material handling, production, packaging, inventory,transportation, warehousing, and often security. The complexity of logistics can be modeled, analyzed, visualized, and optimized by dedicated simulation software. The minimization of the use of resources is a common motivation in logistics for import and export.

Given this definition, can we really say that an ST with "prime logistical capabilities" is immune to forgetfulness?

[Zero11]

But in case you disagree with my definitions, even the sociotype.com description of Se-leading disagrees with you:

Thats an Enneagram 8 description, didn´t you know that Socionics is flawed?

[Olduvai]

Thats an Enneagram 8 description, didn´t you know that Socionics is flawed?

lol socionics isn't flawed, people just don't understand it

[Zero11]

lol socionics isn't flawed, people just don't understand it

That would make it just some Categorisation with very limited application in reality.

Furthermore, VI.

Here are some Filatova portraits of SLE that I think look similar:

How many of them are really SLE and not just some further Socionics nutjobs based on theoretical assumptions?

[xerx]

1. This video is made-up. Who knows if this nameless actress is actually prone to forgetfulness.

Who the actress is, is irrelevant to the OP, which was directly referring to her role in that vid (though I'm convinced she is intuitive).

2. An Se-ego is really just a person whose brain perceives and processes the "explicit static" properties of various "objects". But in case you disagree with my definitions, even the sociotype.com description of Se-leading disagrees with you:

What's the relevance of "explicit static" to what you just quoted? The quote doesn't touch on static anywhere, nor "explicit" ( I assume you mean external ).

And that's a stupid definition of Se.

3. Here is the definition of "logistics":

Given this definition, can we really say that an ST with "prime logistical capabilities" is immune to forgetfulness?

Everyone is prone to one or another aspect of the traits mentioned in the video. A function is better modeled as a cluster of traits. The video addressed more than just forgetfulness.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up some corporate definition of logistics, when the word is being used to refer to the management of the apparatus of day-to-day survival on a personal level.

... VI ...

They don't look anything alike.

[Olduvai]

Who the actress is, is irrelevant to the OP, which was directly referring to her role in that vid (though I'm convinced she is intuitive).

She's a sensor, sorry.

What's the relationship between "explicit static" and what you just quoted? The quote doesn't touch on static anywhere, nor "explicit" ( I assume you mean external ).

"Explicit Object Statics" are properties like "weight, height, color, texture, pitch". "External" is the word other people use, but I think "explicit" makes more sense. How can we perceive something that is "internal"? We can perceive something as being "implicit", though.

And that's a stupid definition of Se.

I agree, hence why I define "Se" as "Explicit Object Statics".

Everyone is prone to one or another aspect of the traits mentioned in the video. A function is better modeled as a cluster of traits. The video addressed more than just forgetfulness.

A "function" is a neural network that processes information. A "set" of "functions" constitutes a "type", but "type" does not solely determine "behavior". "Behavior" is the result of all of the brain's operations.

I'm not sure why you're bringing up some corporate definition of logistics, when the word is being used to refer to the management of the apparatus of day-to-day survival on a personal level.

What does "logistics" mean in the context of management of day-to-day affairs, then?

They don't look anything alike.

They look plenty alike, you're just being stubborn.

[xerx]

She's a sensor, sorry.

"Explicit Object Statics" are properties like "weight, height, color, texture, pitch". "External" is the word other people use, but I think "explicit" makes more sense. How can we perceive something that is "internal"? We can perceive something as being "implicit", though.

I agree, hence why I define "Se" as "Explicit Object Statics".

Right, those properties work together to form a complete and confident perception of the physical world, as in the exact opposite of the chick in that video.

A "function" is a neural network that processes information. A "set" of "functions" constitutes a "type", but "type" does not solely determine "behavior". "Behavior" is the result of all of the brain's operations.

I'd avoid making comparisons with real sciences (i.e. "neural networks") if you don't want to sound stupid.

What does "logistics" mean in the context of management of day-to-day affairs, then?

It means managing the amenities for survival, taking care to make sure that the smallest details are in order and properly organized. It means having a strong measure of pragmatism (hence the "pragmatists" club) and practicality, regardless of IQ or education.

They look plenty alike, you're just being stubborn.

They look nothing alike, you're the one being stubborn. The SLEs look solid, confident, in charge and in control, both over themselves and their surroundings. She looks like a wilted flower stuck in lala land.

[superunknown]

If this is what an SXE is like, then you're doing it wrong.

Under absolutely no circumstance is that woman any kind of sensor. Even Jung's description of Se (let alone Socionic's) has, as its kernel, the full sensory awareness of, if not absolute mastery over, one's physical environment. Prime logistical capabilities are strongly implied in all ST profiles, moreover.

*buzzer sounds*

I award you no points.

[Olduvai]

*buzzer sounds*

I award you no points.

To anyone wondering what the difference is between Te and Fe: this post is pure Te.

"Explicit Object Dynamics"

[xerx]

*buzzer sounds*

I award you no points.

Then explain yourself instead of contributing nothing to the thread.

[superunknown]

Then explain yourself instead of contributing nothing to the thread.

An Se type's concern is that of the explicit impressions an object releases within the psyche, in this sense, yes, they are utterly dependent on an objective orientation to reality.

That in no way precludes any form of obliviosity from an Se type.

[xerx]

An Se type's concern is that of the explicit impressions an object releases within the psyche, in this sense, yes, they are utterly dependent on an objective orientation to reality.

That in no way precludes any form of obliviosity from an Se type.

not on the scale in the video. unless they have real adhd.

[Kim]

During the course of the past two days I

- searched frantically for my phone, only to realize that I left it in my car, which was at the mechanics (who was going to call me when it is finished)
- searched frantically for my keys (have not found them yet)
- killed my steam cleaner because I was incapable of reading the manual carefully (reading manuals makes my brain twitch)
- stabbed myself in the foot with scissors while trying to fix said steam cleaner (don't ask)
- got up three times during the course of two minutes because I forgot yet another thing
- forgot at least three times why I went to a different room. Twice it occurred to me later, but I still wonder why I went into the basement
- moved the deadline of a big project because I could not keep up
- started a new big project roughly three hours later
- started two emails that I still have to finish
- opened and closed the book chapter I absolutely have to read roughly 10 times (read a total of 2 paragraphs)

So this video made me both laugh and cry a little...

[Narc]

What? Even sensing people misplace their shit and forget what they're doing as they walk into a new room.

[Saberstorm]

When is Socionics just going to shut its doors and turn off the lights? None of you can type anybody. Nobody use VI anymore. This is all shit.

[Olduvai]

When is Socionics just going to shut its doors and turn off the lights? None of you can type anybody. Nobody use VI anymore. This is all shit.

read my posts. read Filatova's type descriptions and relation descriptions. read Gulenko. there is truth to all of this, it is just something you need to see for yourself. I can't teach you how to type, only you can figure it out.

[Aylen]

"A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The U.K. researchers suggest instead that the primary cause of ADHD is found in structural differences in the brain’s grey matter."

 

Chemical Imbalance Is Probably Not Behind ADHD

Traci Pedersen
By Associate News Editor
Reviewed by John M. Grohol, Psy.D. on November 2, 2013


Chemical Imbalance Is Probably Not Behind ADHDA new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The U.K. researchers suggest instead that the primary cause of ADHD is found in structural differences in the brain’s grey matter.


Dopamine is a chemical produced in the brain that is necessary for concentration or prolonged attention, working memory and motivation. It helps carry signals between brain cells by attaching to dopamine cell receptors — special entry-points in cell membranes that can only be opened by that particular molecule.


Ritalin, one of the more popular medications approved to treat ADHD, raises levels of dopamine, causing more to bind to the cells and therefore increasing the communication between them.


“These findings question the previously accepted view that major abnormalities in dopamine function are the main cause of ADHD in adult patients.


“While the results show that Ritalin has a ‘therapeutic’ effect to improve performance, it does not appear to be related to fundamental underlying impairments in the dopamine system in ADHD,” said co-author Trevor Robbins, Ph.D., director of the MRC Centre for Behavioural and Clinical Neuroscience Institute.


During the study, researchers used a combination of positron emission tomography (PET) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to measure grey matter and dopamine receptors and determine how the drug methylphenidate (Ritalin) affected dopamine in individuals with ADHD and those without.


Both study groups were given either a dose of Ritalin or a placebo. The study was double-blinded, which means neither the participants nor the clinicians who administered the medication knew whether they were working with Ritalin or the placebo.


Before and after taking their given dose, participants were tested on their ability to concentrate and pay attention over a period of time.


The researchers discovered that both the ADHD patients and the controls who were given Ritalin showed similar increases of dopamine in their brain, as well as similar levels of improvement in attention and concentration.


The findings also showed that although participants with ADHD had significantly less grey matter in the brain, and performed much worse in the attention tests than the healthy controls, they had similar levels of dopamine receptors in an area of the brain called the striatum. Ritalin raised dopamine levels in this area to the same degree.


This important finding suggests there was not necessarily any dysfunction in dopamine.


The researchers found it interesting that Ritalin also increased sustained performance in some of the healthy controls, suggesting that the overall ability of the drug to increase attention in both ADHD and healthy controls was related to the rise in dopamine it caused in the striatum.


Study leader Barbara Sahakian, Ph.D., said the findings are significant because they show Ritalin improves attention and concentration regardless of whether people have ADHD or not.


“These new findings demonstrate that poor performers, including healthy volunteers, were helped by the treatment, and this improvement was related to increases in dopamine in the brain,” she said.


The researchers hope these results will improve our understanding of the cause of ADHD and improve future treatments.


Source: University of Cambridge


APA Reference
Pedersen, T. (2013). Chemical Imbalance Is Probably Not Behind ADHD. Psych Central. Retrieved on January 26, 2014, from http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11...dhd/61512.html

[Olduvai]

"A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The U.K. researchers suggest instead that the primary cause of ADHD is found in structural differences in the brain’s grey matter."

dayum gurl u good

[Aylen]

dayum gurl u good

I have a lot of experience with "mental health".

[Olduvai]

I have a lot of experience with "mental health".

"Whatever that may entail..."

I'm thinking rubber rooms and straight jackets. And Hannibal Lecter-style insanity.

[Aylen]

"Whatever that may entail..."

I'm thinking rubber rooms and straight jackets. And Hannibal Lecter-style insanity.

I have studied it since my early teens because I wanted to know what makes people the way they are.

* A good book to read for anyone interested is "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat".

[xerx]

"A new study challenges the popular idea that dysfunction in dopamine — a chemical that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure centers — is the main cause of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The U.K. researchers suggest instead that the primary cause of ADHD is found in structural differences in the brain’s grey matter."

Whatever this is getting at, I'm pretty sure they were using ADHD as a tongue-in-cheek metaphor. The info is interesting though.

[Aylen]

Whatever this is getting at, I'm pretty sure they were using ADHD as a tongue-in-cheek metaphor. The info is interesting though.

Yeah, I got that!

I used it as an opportunity to slip in some info I find interesting on the subject. That's all.

carpe diem...

[Olduvai]

Here's an interesting connection:

The neural system of the human body consists of three stages: receptors, a neural network, and effectors. The receptors receive the stimuli either internally or from the external world, then pass the information into the neurons in a form of electrical impulses. The neural network then processes the inputs then makes proper decision of outputs. Finally, the effectors translate electrical impulses from the neural network into responses to the outside environment.

+

So basically, "explicit" information originates from the "environment". It is what we immediately detect via our sensory organs. It requires no further thought or contemplation; it is "just there". "Implicit" information originates from an "operation" in the brain. It is the result of a "calculation" or a "transformation" that the function performs. It then seems reasonable to think that a person with an "explicit" primary function would seem to be "more focused on their environment" than a person with an "implicit" primary function, who would seem to be "more focused on their thought processes", and thus we have the concepts of "extroversion" and "introversion".