Helping an SEI ISFp lose weight

[Beautiful sky]

I'm currently doing some theory investigating/research about possibly two different types of muscle construction in people. If you have a hard time loosing weight it may be due to your muscles burning fat instead of carbohydrates. This is kind of tricky as muscle burning fat tends to draw less oxygen in that area. To increase oxygen flow and hence to burn fat you will have to exercise, consume less FAT and protein rich foods, do whatever you can to get your body to bring more oxygen in but don't do something crazy like go to an oxygen bar. Oxygen in it's pure form is very bad for your lungs. Um, try drinking more water as water molecules are constructed of H, O. Observe the fat content of your foods. Look at nutrition labels. Be mindful of the foods you are putting into your body. Count calories because more calories you consume the more energy you're consuming. The rule is determine your ideal weight and add a zero at the end and that is how many calories you should be eating in a day.

[consentingadult]

Yeah, I definitely empathize.

Another thing- I don't know what type you are, so ignore this if it isn't relevant, but it may help to mimic or produce a lot of Ti. I know that when I'm whiny or pouty, Ti can put me in a "yeah you're right I was dumb I will go do that now" mode. Blaze's suggestion about the book isn't a bad idea. If you do that, I would suggest somehow reinforcing the ideas in the book on your own, but somehow trying to frame them in a Ti and not Te way, like "this is what these food groups do and they will have this effect on your body" not "if you want to feel better you need to do this."

That's one of the problems, I'm Ti-PoLR ;-)

[SyrupDeGem]

I like the idea of someone taking over in the diet dept, how wonderful to have someone do the research and go shopping for you. I hope they are also able to cook and eat with you. I enjoy cooking sometimes but find 'having' to do it a tiresome chore.

[lemontrees]

That's one of the problems, I'm Ti-PoLR ;-)

I'm sorry.

I was hoping that you were Te-creative.

Well, ultimately another person's weight loss is their own task, maybe in lieu of mimicking Ti you pretend to be all callous like an Fi-PoLR (lol). Throw her a book, give off these "all the information you need is in here, how you choose to act on it is your own deal, dude" vibes.

[Kim]

I like the idea of someone taking over in the diet dept, how wonderful to have someone do the research and go shopping for you. I hope they are also able to cook and eat with you. I enjoy cooking sometimes but find 'having' to do it a tiresome chore.

The man of my dreams! I will even do the clean-up.

[marooned]

i would say weight loss is very simple to understand (sort of) and often very difficult to carry out. simply, it is that one needs to be using more energy than they provided for themselves. whether one chooses to not change much about their diet but exercise more, or chooses to simply eat less, it is under-eating either way. my thought on this matter is that simply eating less food is the best thing to do at first, especially if there are problems with joints or other physical issues. then one can gradually add some exercise in as supposedly exercising helps keep the lost weight off, and it is of course beneficial in numerous ways. maintaining oneself at the lower weight will probably be a new challenge in itself (and perhaps the more difficult problem). using the BMR can help one determine how much less to eat: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator.

if she actually wants help, perhaps a thorough discussion on the matter would be helpful. this would be with the purpose of establishing what she wants, and why, and how important it is to her (or how important she wishes it were to her), and the particular challenges she faces in getting anywhere with it. i could see this being a good 3 hour long discussion at least. the point is to thoroughly delve into the entire matter to get a complete picture and getting things down in a way that isn't abstract or wishy-washy. taking notes during this is a good idea as well. what to do with the information would depend of course on what her particular challenges are. but knowing what they are would allow you to see areas where you could possibly help. if two people work on something like this together i think it's a lot more likely to progress, and often times there are ways in which one person can help another without it costing much to that person (win-wins).

if a plan could be worked out, it would need to be simple (because actions are simple), just what actions to take, or what things to change and in what ways. i always think that trying to meet personal goals like weight loss would be a lot more feasible if someone else did things with me, but i don't know if that would be helpful in this case or not. verbal commitments could also help because then you have to actually mean it and look at things in a way where you're confronted with the reality of what you said you would do and how this will be challenging... it just seems to connect deeper when something is made as a verbal commitment rather than as a wishy-washy, oh i know, maybe i really need to start steering myself more in this direction kind of thing... the former puts things in the realm where direct action is possible and more quickly, whereas the latter could maybe eventually propel one towards something but it's not a good way to meet a direct goal in a timely way.

[Iris]

@consentingadult Getting back to this topic, the easiest thing is to cut down on what you eat, then you don't have to work so hard. And you really need to determine your optimal weight and daily calorie intake on your own. I am only 5'3" and what I have found is that the standard portions in restaurants are more food than I need. The USDA suggested daily calorie intake of 2000 calories a day is more food than I need. The portion sizes on the packages are more food than I need. Basically, everything considered normal is more than I need. I went to weight watchers and they told me that my weight loss goal of 117 was under their recommended range for someone my height. They told me their weight ranges were recommended by their insurance company. I love to eat so what has helped me is finding lower calorie substitutes that I can pig out on. I don't buy anything that will tempt me. The most success that I had losing weight was when I decided that if I didn't make my weight goal, that I would have to give $100 to a politician that I detested. Then I put his pic on my pantry door. That REALLY worked. But what made it possible was throwing out all USDA recommendations about calorie intake. I would be a blimp if I ate what the American Heart Association recommends on this chart: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Gettin...86_Article.jsp

[consentingadult]

@consentingadult Getting back to this topic, the easiest thing is to cut down on what you eat, then you don't have to work so hard. And you really need to determine your optimal weight and daily calorie intake on your own. I am only 5'3" and what I have found is that the standard portions in restaurants are more food than I need. The USDA suggested daily calorie intake of 2000 calories a day is more food than I need. The portion sizes on the packages are more food than I need. Basically, everything considered normal is more than I need. I went to weight watchers and they told me that my weight loss goal of 117 was under their recommended range for someone my height. They told me their weight ranges were recommended by their insurance company. I love to eat so what has helped me is finding lower calorie substitutes that I can pig out on. I don't buy anything that will tempt me. The most success that I had losing weight was when I decided that if I didn't make my weight goal, that I would have to give $100 to a politician that I detested. Then I put his pic on my pantry door. That REALLY worked. But what made it possible was throwing out all USDA recommendations about calorie intake. I would be a blimp if I ate what the American Heart Association recommends on this chart: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Gettin...86_Article.jsp

I fully agree with you. As i went grocery shopping tonight, I noticed my GF put a chocolate bar on the list. As she was already chewing away some candy, I refused to buy the chocolate ;-)

I appreciate the technical suggestions, but such things aren't really my problem. My problem is: what I can I do, how must I behave, to effectively support her in her efforts to lose weight? And what I'm especially interested in, if there are type related aspects that would contribute to this (i.e. I'm not sure there are type related aspect in the first place, but I certainly do not want to rule it out).

ETA: I've written a blog post where I explain how a see how duality works. I also say something on how that translates to semi-duality:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...intertype.html

So my question on how to support my GF, should be seen in this light.

[DaftPunk]

I fully agree with you. As i went grocery shopping tonight, I noticed my GF put a chocolate bar on the list. As she was already chewing away some candy, I refused to buy the chocolate ;-)

I appreciate the technical suggestions, but such things aren't really my problem. My problem is: what I can I do, how must I behave, to effectively support her in her efforts to lose weight? And what I'm especially interested in, if there are type related aspects that would contribute to this (i.e. I'm not sure there are type related aspect in the first place, but I certainly do not want to rule it out).

ETA: I've written a blog post where I explain how a see how duality works. I also say something on how that translates to semi-duality:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...intertype.html

So my question on how to support my GF, should be seen in this light.

She'll only loose weight if she wants it herself. It's like smoking. It's not so much about willpower (can be enough though) than inner want.

Cook healthy stuff for her and very important make compliments after the smallest success IMO Si-Egos like short term investmestments and immediat reward. Maybe her visiting a psychologist/coach is a good advice. There she can talk freely and they can make up strategies together.

[consentingadult]

She'll only loose weight if she wants it herself. It's like smoking. It's not so much about willpower (can be enough though) than inner want.

Cook healthy stuff for her and very important make compliments after the smallest success IMO Si-Egos like short term investmestments and immediat reward. Maybe her visiting a psychologist/coach is a good advice. There she can talk freely and they can make up strategies together.

That's actually not a bad idea. I must find her an ILE psychologist! A female ILE one to be sure ;-)

[DaftPunk]

That's actually not a bad idea. I must find her an ILE psychologist! A female ILE one to be sure ;-)

I made very good experiences with psychologists/coaches when I want to do things but have problem to get into action.

Female is probably better for this case. I'd recommend LSE she'll need some supervision

[Iris]

I fully agree with you. As i went grocery shopping tonight, I noticed my GF put a chocolate bar on the list. As she was already chewing away some candy, I refused to buy the chocolate ;-)

I appreciate the technical suggestions, but such things aren't really my problem. My problem is: what I can I do, how must I behave, to effectively support her in her efforts to lose weight? And what I'm especially interested in, if there are type related aspects that would contribute to this (i.e. I'm not sure there are type related aspect in the first place, but I certainly do not want to rule it out).

ETA: I've written a blog post where I explain how a see how duality works. I also say something on how that translates to semi-duality:

http://mavericksocionics.blogspot.nl...intertype.html

So my question on how to support my GF, should be seen in this light.

That was an interesting idea in your blog about mirage offering maximum potenial for personal development (although I thought one of the hallmarks of that pairing is that nothing gets done.) SLE is the mirage partner for SEI and I can see that if you began behaving like an SLE that you could get results. That was completely SLE behavior when you took away that candy bar! Maybe you could behave with Beta ruthlessness, but each time, link it back to alpha values (the eventual happiness of dancing and feeling better.)

[consentingadult]

That was an interesting idea in your blog about mirage offering maximum potenial for personal development (although I thought one of the hallmarks of that pairing is that nothing gets done.) SLE is the mirage partner for SEI and I can see that if you began behaving like an SLE that you could get results. That was completely SLE behavior when you took away that candy bar! Maybe you could behave with Beta ruthlessness, but each time, link it back to alpha values (the eventual happiness of dancing and feeling better.)

What I like about my mirage interactions with male ILIs, is the stimulating intellectual exchange. Not that all ILIs are intellectuals, but most of them that I meet, are to some degree. With female ILIs, it a totally different story, but stimulating nonetheless

[Iris]

I think Bobby Deen is an ILE and he has a show where he reinvents his mother's recipes to be healthier. Your GF might enjoy the healthy Ne http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/vide...omato-pie.html

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

First, teach her that she's attractive no matter what size she is. People can have issues with that. It's silly though, a fat person can get me off if they are creative enough... (there's a personal limit kinda with me and you know everybody's shallow but that doesn't mean that it's 'right') Deal with the heartfelt emotional side. It's bs that the fashion industry thinks that we only fap to like perfect size 0s. *vomits*

Now for the technical side. I lost good weight on weight watchers tho u have to count points. It's a bit cumbersome, but technical detail is necessary if you actually want to be successful. I could lose weight again if I really wanted to, but I dislike how much mental energy and effort it took for me to do it. I seriously had to think about it ALL day - or it didn't get done. Dead serious. If I tried it any other way, like not think about it- the weight just wouldn't come off. It ain't 'hard' so much as it's cumbersome and just time consuming.

It's a tad more simple than people think. Your body doesn't care so much what you eat as how much u eat it and the density/calorie of it. It's just really easy to overeat not because people are 'emo' or some lame excuse commercialism uses to guilt trip people into buying books that they don't need, but because of how subtle and nuanced one little bite is. Just think about it, if you were like in a situation where your body needed food to live, one bite would be a miracle. So the body as a natural defense against the harsh cruel world makes one little bite go a long way.

And yeah if she's going to exercize (though the food part is more important) make sure it's something she really likes to do, if she can't find anything- just try walking with her. There was that story about that gamer dude that lost weight on a treadmill while playing world of warcraft. If she's a homebody type and doesn't like external stuff very much, get her to do that!

[consentingadult]

I think Bobby Deen is an ILE and he has a show where he reinvents his mother's recipes to be healthier. Your GF might enjoy the healthy Ne http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/vide...omato-pie.html

I just forwarded another video, this one seems to be taken off-line. The other one is one that might actually work, since it's got this brilliant idea of using crushed corn flakes instead of bread crumbs to make fried chicken. Just what my GF would like ;-)

[mu4]

I think Bobby Deen is an ILE and he has a show where he reinvents his mother's recipes to be healthier. Your GF might enjoy the healthy Ne http://www.cookingchanneltv.com/vide...omato-pie.html

LSE imo.

[jughead]

i can't speak for ile/sei but in my experience i was frustrated in a relationship where i was trying to lose weight but it was always a struggle to get healthy food in the house because my ex would insist on buying the higher calorie foods and the junk foods and then tell me, "just don't eat as much," or "don't snack, only eat during meals," etc. and i wasn't able to do anything about it until i started buying all my own food and preparing two different meals and whatnot. because he thought he knew all the answers and wasn't willing to work with me. so i think its important to help her on her terms. she IS onto something with it being about the quality of the food she eats and not just about eating less. it might help if you're willing to sacrifice a little too and not just be like.. a motivational speaker, all self righteous and whatnot.

My roomate is SEI and is closest to this social role among those listed...."The lazy hedonist with a short attention span who loves to consume movies, music, shows, food, and drink and sees no reason to strain himself in life." I was able to introduce berries and greens smoothies to him that were easy for him to make and taste good. Considering how social this type is...maybe the SEI needs to cut ties to those less healthy or reestablish some boundaries. Ease of doing things...no strain. Do they have a sitdown job? A standup/treadmill desk may be the answer that is super easy provided his employer isn't a douche. Many people have a gut reaction to that though, of "no way!"

Weight watchers and my fitness pal are rated highly for plan services.
Some more thoughts....
The above case well if its not working...its not working. Quality and quantity both matter for sure, but unless she has an actual sensitivity or allergy to wheat, wheat free is just another twist. Just buy all healthy foods for the home and be the person that orders the salad at the sports bar. (without ranch mind you). Junk foods are specifically designed to make you want more of them....they are engineered to make you fat basically. So yes...don't buy them. It's not much different than smoking... except that we have to have food.
www.nutritionfacts.org is a cool website that may stimulate the SEI's NeTi somewhat. Have them view some decent documentaries?
Knee pain from running/load bearing exercise is often due to being overweight and lack of exercise... thus a vicious cycle. It also helps to have quality footwear. The SEI could still do weightlifting on machines for the lower body (and upper) if its a stability issue. This actually helps the knee get stronger. And weightlifting makes you drop fat.

[Jack Oliver Aaron]

SEIs are sometimes stereotypically typed as overweight people. I'm wondering: in which ways would an ILE support an SEI that wants to lose weight?

To put it more specifically: my GF is overweight, wants to lose it, but has issues with her knees, so the more standard ways of exercise are painful for her. Imo, she needs to exercise in a way that burns fat, but doesn't strain her joints, so e.g. swimming would be ideal. And although she already swims at least once a week, she is not going to strain herself to a heart rate that will actually start burning fat. She would rather focus on a wheat-free diet, which she has been doing for years with no lasting results.

My recommendations fall on deaf ears. How would an ILE go about it? Would they be supportive of weight loss at all?

Ne and Si balance eachother out. The main problem of an ILE is that he gets so distracted with his flights of intellectual fancy that he doesn't remember to eat (like right now, I haven't eaten for 14 hours and haven't slept for 20. I've been entertaining a lovely brioche breakfast but haven't gotten round to doing it because I'm distracted writing this.) The ILE needs someone to remind him of his bodily needs.

The SEI pretty much needs to be distracted by the ILE. It's no good to impose restrictions or dieting with Alpha Irrationals, you certainly don't tell a Te-allergic SEI HOW to do things. The key is not self-discipline but distraction. Go off on something interesting and she'll go running after you, losing that weight by the pound. Bring interesting activity into her life that will have her burning calories without feeling the drag.

[Blaze]

I'll take a look at that. Fuhrman an ILE by any chance?

Good question, not sure. He's definitely positive, other than that it's hard to pinpoint type. Once you read the book it becomes mind changing and hard to justify unhealthy food choices.

[Suz]

Yes, they are! ;-)
Eat less might actually be my motto, but according to her it's not about eating less, buit eating differently. Which I personally see as a way of evading the problem, she doesn't want to give up some of the stuff, especially large chunks of meat, and cans of Ben & Jerry's.

Meat is good for weight loss. Lean meat. It's filling and has a low glycemic index.

Cans of Ben & Jerry is not. Her love of ice cream is probably a major thing keeping her chubs.

I would say, keep the meat, get rid of the ice cream. Substitute the ice cream with good fruit. She's wheat free -- does she eat rice then? If it's white rice, substitute with brown rice, and cut down the portions of that.

I'm a big believer in exercise because I love good food too. I agree with @squirreltual that it may benefit her if you utilize your Ne powers and take her to various fun activities that make you both be active... it doesn't have to be extreme sports. Just make her move, in whatever way she can. If she needs to sit and rest her knees from time to time, that's fine. She has to start somewhere.

Additionally, I recommend that she see a doctor (orthopedic surgeon would be my suggestion--no worries she most likely doesn't need surgery) about her knee pain. It could be that her iliotibial bands are strained which can cause knee pain, also tight hip flexors; these require some work with a good physical therapist, to stretch the tight muscles and strengthen the weak muscles, and can be complicated to try to fix on her own. These are really common problems in young adults, especially if they haven't been all that active and/or increase exercise intensity to quickly, and can make you feel like you have arthritis.

[consentingadult]

Go off on something interesting and she'll go running after you, losing that weight by the pound. Bring interesting activity into her life that will have her burning calories without feeling the drag.

I'm a big believer in exercise because I love good food too. I agree with @squirreltual that it may benefit her if you utilize your Ne powers and take her to various fun activities that make you both be active... it doesn't have to be extreme sports. Just make her move, in whatever way she can. If she needs to sit and rest her knees from time to time, that's fine. She has to start somewhere.

Well, to be honest, this is the kind of thing I want to avoid. Obviously, we do stuff together, bringing her along on my Ne activities, but I do have other things to do as well such as work and study. If I'd have to invest time that would make a significant difference to her, I'd have an extra job. I've been in such relationships before and lived other people's lifes at the expense of my own.

However, I do get the gist of what you people are trying to say here. I'm starting to think of letting it go, this is beyond my influence and I can only contribute to more of less insignificant extents.

[Suz]

I don't know if this is type-related, but I can relate to her struggle A LOT since I have battled my weight all my life and only recently underwent a complete change and lost a lot of it (and I am by no means thin yet). So I will just share my experience.

I wanted to primarily be more fit and healthier, but I needed a concrete goal. I decided I will run a specific half marathon a year down the road and started training for it (not by running right away, but by swimming and the elliptical machine to take stress off my knees). Another goal was to look good in a dress for a special occasion and I keep visualizing both as a motivator. I would literally spend an hour on the elliptical imagining myself crossing the finish line or for the first time in my life wearing a bikini (maybe shallow, but if you have never felt comfortable enough to enjoy a day on the beach in even a one-piece bathing suit, the prospect of wearing a bikini is huge). As another strategy, I cut out all room for excuses or lapses (no junky food ever, ridiculously healthy diet, workouts every day without fail). I think I simplified the whole process by removing all potential for not sticking to it (*one piece of chocolate will not hurt* - it will for me). But really, it was my fitness goal that did the trick (and watching the muscular changes in my body). I turned into a total narcissist and paid very close attention to how my body shape was changing and muscles were becoming visible. I also did yoga every day, which is amazing for toning and easy on the joints. Yoga builds muscle (people have the wrong idea about yoga) quite effectively.

I think even if her swimming is leisurely, making it a more routine and more frequent habit can make a difference. Five days a week and perhaps setting a goal of swimming a certain distance in a certain time. It does not have to be hardcore racing to be effective. She will burn calories even at a leisurely pace. Walking might be another option (with the fitness gadgets that people mentioned).

Most importantly, let her know that you will love her regardless. I have had partners who wanted me thinner and praised me for losing weight. It always backfired because eventually I felt too awful about my body to really want to be good to it. So if she were me, I would like support in eating healthy foods together, being active together, noticing changes in a way that does not turn into fat shaming, and feeling accepted regardless and ideally have someone worship (haha) my body the way it is (since the changes are changes I want for me). Do yoga together. I can send you links to some yoga routines that will make anyone work up a sweat and make muscles burn.

And I feel for her. It's hard.

About how much would she like to lose?

GIRL.
We are living parallel lives... I too have struggled with the chubs.
Right now i am on an "off" couple of years. I think i overdid the half-marathons in 2010-11 -- I did like 5 of them. The Cherry Blossom 10-miler in April 2012 was my last race. After that one i got a chronic sharp pain under my shoulder blade that is still there most of the time, and I was just burnt out (and maybe bored of running). The getting up at the crack of dawn and stressing to get to the start line on time was also getting old.

After that, i'm just sticking to the gym... I've been crosstraining more -- alternating ellipticals, treadmill, and endless staircase (the latter of which i started doing because I tend to neglect my glutes, and then overuse my IT band and piriformis). Over the past 1.5 years though, an overwhelming job took over and i've been more sporadic about my gym time, even though I stress out when i'm not able to go workout (because I know i'm gonna gain, and I have...about 20 lbs). It's also a lot harder to not listen to cravings when i'm chronically sleep deprived and/or feeling overwhelmed with work, etc. I've been trying to get involved in other fun active activities out there -- like ballet, martial arts, etc, but when it's even hard to get to the gym, it's even harder to make it to a scheduled class at a certain time, especially on weeknights (and i'll be stressing about running late, etc). So now that i am a little bit freer for a little bit, I'll plan to go to a class, but ONLY on weekends. It's the gym routine only for the weeknights (because that's flexible). Yoga is a must, but when i have only so much time to burn the calories, i have to pick the more efficient burn, and do without the yoga; however, i do miss it.

[Beautiful sky]

From one of my favorite sites...cracked.com

"#3. Dieting Puts Your Brain on Hunger Strike


Wait a minute ... how can this possibly be bad? Everyone knows the food corporations give so few shits about our well-being that we're practically drowning in their high fructose corn syrup bukkake. And on top of that, everyone knows that Americans are the most disgustingly obese people to ever exist in the history of the world, with skyrocketing rates of heart disease and diabetes. So how can watching what we eat have any negative effects?

The Terrible Truth:

Obviously watching what you eat is good, but counting calories and keeping an eye on the scale can get your brain's neurons all tangled up. Dieting can "problematize" a part of your brain, which is awesome because a) "problematize" is a word that we can all use in casual conversation now and b) it helps explain why fat is incurable. Changing your body size means being hungry forever, and since your stomach is never going to stop sending teams of insurgent revolutionaries to try to forcibly oust the oppressive regime of your brain, your brain is going to have to constantly divert resources to its Royal Guard so they can keep committing war crimes against the restless populace.
And the difference is huge: They compared the brain power of Indian sugar cane farmers during harvest (when they're effectively rich and can eat however much they want) and pre-harvest (when they're basically poor and eating just to subsist), and they found the IQ difference to be around nine or 10 points. Being hungry -- the default state for everyone on a diet -- has the same effect on your intelligence as losing an entire night's sleep or headbutting a garbage truck in half."

LOL

[consentingadult]

...high fructose corn syrup bukkake....

Very graphic... and that from an EII

[Beautiful sky]

Very graphic... and that from an EII

it's a quote from cracked.com

[Satan]

put him on a treadmill

[Amber]

give him a full-time job under LIE's lead