the question is illogical... totally misses the point
the question is illogical... totally misses the point
Whatever you say Joy :wink:
I'm for it, sometimes its better not to be born in this world?
you're going to change your stance, just like that?
"Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." - Psalm 137:9
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Against unless birth is life threatening.
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
You are just bitter because you didn't get aborted.Originally Posted by RedBeard
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
For it.
My sister had a dream about me having two horridly screaming mutant babies that wouldn't leave us alone no matter how hard we tried to beat them last night. I believe this means God wants me to get two abortions asap. Any volunteers to become the father of a dead baby around here? Or do I have to take you by force?
I had a dream I was riding my bike and when I looked up to the sky I saw two spaceships hovering over me, so I abandoned my bike and woke up. Don't know what that means.
I mean, God surely tries to tell me something.
Haha, this thread brings me back. I used to be very anti-abortion when I was younger, but as I get older I've become more tolerant of it for some reason. Now I'd say I'm probably somewhere in the middle when it comes to this issue as I don't see it as a black and white issue anymore. It should come down to several factors on whether to have an abortion or not such as how long the mother has been pregnant, whether the mother's or child's life is in danger and whether she got raped or not imo.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
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6w7 sp/sx
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Because its an externality.
and?
Theres a difference between choosing to abort when someone has lots of mutual consensual sex with a partner and choosing to abort because someone forces themselves upon someone.
This doesn't mean that it's not right to have an abortion if you have lots of mutual consensual sex; however, it does change the context massively.
Why wouldn't it matter that it's an externality?
"lots of"
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
1. Condom may break
2. Someone may rape you.
Shit happens. You still own your body and the parasite is better off dead if the other option is to live without parents who never wanted your existence. Legislation against abortion will mean a major increase in non-professional measures to exterminate the freeloader.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Bullshit. You don't own your body. Researches may use your genetic material without your consent so this libertarian talk is once again hilarious. Took the liberty (not in a libertarian fashion) to check first page and well, if words could kill me instantly by their degree of ridiculousness, I would be dead a long time ago.
As for abortion you can decide for yourself, when you get pregnant Agua, whether you want to keep it or not. I'm sure someone telling you that you can't wouldn't stop you, so I don't really get these kind of threads...
So this is not so much about the fetus and its rights, after all? To a fetus, it doesn't make much difference if the pregnancy began from a rape or consensual sex. The embryogenesis is similar in both cases, the ability to feel pain is the same, and they are just as close to being or not being human.
You seem to imply that what matters are the woman's intentions/the amount of work she has put into trying not to get pregnant, which I think is utterly fucked up. Taking away someone's right to control their own body and forcing them to bear a child, give birth and become a parent is a rather harsh punishment for an accident/changing one's mind/acting careless. It doesn't sound exactly fair to the kid, either.
There are a number of variables for why a woman would choose to continue or stop a pregnancy. I think it is her choice, however, and not for me to tell her what she can or can't do with her own body.
Some of the things to consider is the health of the mother. Was she on medications/drugs that are known to negatively influence the future physical/psychological wellbeing of the future person? Does she have the mental/emotional fortitude to responsibly raise another being? Does she have enough financial stability to raise another being for the next 18 years or so? Does she have enough access to the extra nutrition which the pregnancy would require? Etc etc. All of these things will influence the child's development in and out of the womb.
Admittedly I might disagree with her reasons for her for her choices, but I still don't see it as something for me to control over another person. One abortion I don't have a prob with. Two and I'd be looking at the circumstances of each. Three or more I'd probably be suggesting she just get herself fixed, or use two forms of birth control such as both the pill and a condom.
One thing I do have a problem is with people who want to take away the choice and force the woman into parenthood. They might say adoption is a valid choice. And it is...as a choice, not forced. But then also look at how many children are in foster homes and otherwise unadopted. What kind of lives are they going through? What harm is being done to them pyschologically? Even more annoying to me is when these same people want to ban abortion as an option also want to ban homosexuals from adopting children. Annoying is putting it quite mildly.
Imo, we already have overpopulation happening. I see no reason to force people to contribute to it. I also don't agree with forcing people to be sterile, nor forcing them to be sexually inactive (unless they are sexual predators). All this desire to force and control other people...disgusts me.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Doesn't that imply that having control over one's body made one choose this accident over not choosing it? Doesn't seem, look, nor sound like control over one's body to me at all.
I can be missing something vital of course.
Well, I'm entirely in favour of abortions being a personal choice, but I don't really have time for people who pout about being in accidents. It just seems callous when a tiny person results from the 'accident' to ignore that it's happened.
You can cross the road and get hit by a car because you don't look and choose the correct time to cross, but you chose to cross the road. They'll try to fix you up, but there isn't really much they can do about it. I just view it as people being incompetent at road crossing: just as I view people getting pregnant by accident as being incompetent at birth control.
As an uncle used to sing whilst playing the guitar: 'Don't act smart! Don't be silly! Wear a condom on your willy!'
Birth control is out there and much cheaper, more healthy and less morally dubious than abortions. Prevention is better than cure in many ways.
If a pregnancy can occur against the odds when multiple forms of birth control are used then I'm all for the underdog being so awesome as to survive that.
The risk is there every time a man and a woman smash their bits together that pregnancy occurs, so why not be rational and consider before the act if you are happy to accept the risks that brings if you too could appropriately house and raise a child with love?
I'm often afraid of the fact that there's little I can do if she decides to keep it. And doesn't have stairs.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
This is why I discriminate on where I insert my willy. If I put my dick in it I need to accept the risk that it could be more than I bargained for.
Maybe I should just make friends with people who have stairs?
Look for this pendant and know that even if thou ploweth her fields, there shalt be no crop.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Well I'm not sure that it would be right for me to seek out people who may be forced due to their own beliefs and my consent in the act of sex to have an abortion. Does that make sense?
Hmm, when it came to those methods I always thought (in women's case) they can carry some risks(?) as well, depending on health, how many times sex is sought for and with how many partners, having children after, side effects, etc.
Hmm, not really.
Forced due to their own beliefs sounds harsher than it is.
They'd only get an abortion if all else fails.
So why would it be bad?
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
I remember we had this discussion about a year and a half ago. I just don't like to look at it as a black and white issue. The idea that either pro life is morally right or pro choice is morally right, while the other is completely morally wrong bothers me. The issue is much more complicated than that. When it comes to the argument of abortion, there are two rights at stake. The right of the mother over her own body and the right of the unborn child over their own life. Both are equally important to me, I don't place more or less value over the other. The unborn child's life is at stake and the woman's future is at stake. To completely ignore the rights of one of them over the other would be reckless. This is why I think one must consider all of the factors that caused this pregnancy to happen such as rape before judging whether an abortion is necessary or not imo.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
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6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Politically, abortion is a great thing here in the US since it calls stupid people out to vote... i.e. mainly those too dumb to interpret the past 50 years of US history rushing to the polls in some head swim of gullibility that things MIGHT change somehow despite current world issues.. lol.
Abortion, in general, is not such a black and white issue. Where a collection of cells becomes a human life is subjective at this stage of our knowledge given how real science still cannot deduce the mystery of consciousness. So you really cannot objectively put a stake in the ground and determine at what stage you are defending the rights a living person vs. something more inert or inanimate, or if you should even be self-righteous enough to even defend said entity at all as it's in symbiosis with another person.
To add further complication, one's judgement of quality of life vs. euthanasia also come into play. Regardless of where you put your life-mark on the above, does the living arrangements of the person validate a humane existence? Some might argue it is humane to spare one the misery of being an HIV+ baby growing up in a third world country rife with disease, starvation and poor conditions. If the chances of said child making it past 12 months of total misery, pain and suffering are nil, then perhaps abortion regardless of life definition is the more humane angle?
Extremely: It would be like giving a gun to someone who is commited to using it without thorough consideration of if they are using it in self defense.
Pro-life except in late-term deliveries. Basically, until it has a brain wave. I don't know why people care so much or get worked up over it. It's not like it's a baby that you're killing. Blows my mind. Much less people who get like PTSD and regrets from it? Or guilt? Geez. I have been told I should feel bad about not being able to respect those feelings that some people get, but I don't see why they're valid. If I got pregnant (which I can't with my bf, thankfully), I'd abort that so quick.
The only really grey-area in my mind is when the father would want to keep the baby, but the mother would not. The mother can still do whatever she wants, regardless of his feelings. But it's one of those that you can't FORCE someone to carry a child to term without insufferable legal consequences down the line.
A lot of people also bring up those incidences of people they know who use abortion as birth control (ie, they never use BC or condoms, so get pregnant, then abort), and I think that's their prerogative. It's their money and their bodies they're fucking up. The only time I give a fuck would be if the government was paying for the abortions, but that's a mostly different topic (the government should be paying for birth control measures not abortions.)
Yeah, sure but I wasn't asking about that.
I don't see it as a black and white issue either. I just want to know why you think rape especially is an issue that should be taken into consideration (and more so than many other non-medical reasons).
Do you know what the book of Psalms is? It's basically a book of sayings. It isn't intended to e taken literally at all.
However Deuteronomy does say that an unborn child's life must be sacrificed in favor of the mother's.
"[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan
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Well, If she was raped then she should have the right to abort it since she did not choose to get raped. Even if she was not raped, then I think she still has the right to abort it, but it would have to depend on how long she's been pregnant. A 1 month abortion is very different from a 9 month abortion imo. Though like Finale mentioned, it's not easy to determine when the unborn child is considered conscious.
Last edited by Raver; 05-28-2013 at 10:31 PM.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
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This topic always goes round and round. I don’t know that there’s much more I could learn from this often emotionally charged (usually women) debate.
I’ve come to the conclusion that if irresponsible twats want to be responsible for their own bodies, that’s fine with me; proposition 29.
No late term abortions.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Listen here you pro-homosexual libtards. ABORTION IS WRONG. We all need to make as much babies as possible via straight sex. The world shall be extroverted, business-y and STRAIGHT. MORE WORKERS. MORE PEOPLE. MORE PEOPLE FOR WARS AND GUNS AND OIL. MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE. Starfall you belong barefoot & pregnant not giving your damn ideas out.
homosexuality, introversion and peace/no life = DEATH. NEVER ABORT. JUST KEEP BREEDING BREEDERS.
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