Or if you're a guy, imagine all those potential babies....Originally Posted by Fireyed
Or if you eat eggs for breakfast. They're pretty much chicken periods.
Or if you're a guy, imagine all those potential babies....
Or if you eat eggs for breakfast. They're pretty much chicken periods.
All in favor of this method say "aye."
"[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan
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I know that the rocks can be a metaphor for stairs.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Ehh, metaphors again.
The thing is that life is going to be difficult. If it isn't okay to kill a child in the womb simply because it's life would be tough, it isn't any better than killing some homeless unemployed person. Life will be difficult, and we still have some will power to change our own lives in the end.
"Oh but the child will likely have a bad childhood."
The child will grow with a passion to make the situation for other kids to be better, coming from someone who dealt with an unstable environment as a kid.
Library because this site has become sort of an idiocracy
Babies are investments.
I- Well they can be, but they are still individuals.
Library because this site has become sort of an idiocracy
If phoetuses aren't alive, is it OK to breed and harvest them for stem cells (as long as they're harvested before they become alive)?
I feel like equating an unborn fetus's life to a homeless person is insane, One is a living breathing concious individual with family, memories, faults, fears, the other is a possibility of becoming that. This also comes to the same point of prioritizing the mothers or fetus's, always the mother and her choice before anything.
And to the point of "life being difficult", yes it is and it shouldn't just stop people in unfortunate situations from having children, but having a child while being aware of the fact you are knowingly putting them into a shitty, traumatizing situation is irresponsible.
First off, I know it must've been hard to grow up in that sort of enviornment and i respect you for having a drive to help other children but you have to consider that a bad childhood, leaves people traumatized for life, it's usually the cause for people developing into unstable individuals (ofc not to assume this of everyone). And often people wont have the same view as you unfortunately.
By that logic, people stuck in vegetable states or etc, lives don’t matter, even still, fetusus at a certain stage do start to actually develop consciously and stay in-tune to how the mother feels, etc.
Im simply saying that it’s still a living being, it still has its own consciousness, and even still, we kill things that have emotions for a reason, for survival(food,defence, etc). If a woman doesn’t need to have one(rape, health, risk of death, underage), then it would be unreasonable to have an abortion. The child will never become something if you don’t let it, and that isn’t something to judge upon, but solely if the mother needs it.
yeah, but that’s mercy killing, simply not something I stand for in general, by it euthanasia, etc. Life is still worth living and there is still good, simply because someone else’s quality of life would be lowers doesn’t mean their lives are less valuable, etc. People are still people, they still build connections, etc when they actually get the chance, even when they are suffering.And to the point of "life being difficult", yes it is and it shouldn't just stop people in unfortunate situations from having children, but having a child while being aware of the fact you are knowingly putting them into a shitty, traumatizing situation is irresponsible.
yeah my childhood is shit as well, being raped, starved, abused, etc as a kid, yet I don’t wish I was never born. Again, the kid can get out of that situation, and the foster system can be fixed, but to kill someone because they could "possibly" deal with trauma is shitty reasoning, what if then they actually would have had a perfect life some how? Then that would be preventing a individual from reaching their potential and happiness by killing them off before they can even be born without a just reason.First off, I know it must've been hard to grow up in that sort of enviornment and i respect you for having a drive to help other children but you have to consider that a bad childhood, leaves people traumatized for life, it's usually the cause for people developing into unstable individuals (ofc not to assume this of everyone). And often people wont have the same view as you unfortunately.
Abortions are traumatic still. Most women I know who got it regret it 99% percent of the time, and they did it out of reckless sleeping around. Just because someone else made a bad choice doesn’t mean they can erase the consequences by just having an abortion and say it’s justified.
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Well people stuck in vegetative states have already been born, they are a real living breathing human. I guess that is just our biggest disagreement, you see fetuses as humans/concious individuals, I do not. Even if scientifically they develop a sort of conciousness connected with their mother, that is simply incomparable to any concious born human. Forgive me for not knowing the details about this sort of thing, but also I imagine this sort of "conciousness" with the mother is developed months into pregnancy.
According to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/reproductiveheal...s/abortion.htm. 93% percent of reported abortions were performed before 13 weeks. They are killing fetuses, not babies, cells.
I wonder if you beleive in "pulling the plug" on cancer patients or forever asleep coma patients, considering your view of "mercy killing". And once again, i simply do not see it as "mercy killing" these fetuses are an extension of the mother, not an individual, and they only will be with the choice of the mother.
Im sorry for what youve gone through again but imposing your view on potential others is selfish. The simple difference between you and a fetus that will inevitably be born into a shitty situation is that you have already been born, you have lived through these human experiences and suffered, you are an individual. By not aborting this fetus the mother conciously makes a choice to throw this individual into a traumatic situation, however if the mother decides to abort it, the "individual" becomes non existant, it never existed in the first place because it never got to the stage of conciousness and life. You are not "killing a human" you are simply preventing cells from turning into one.
To the point of abortions being traumatic, yes of course they are. However this does NOT mean most people regret them. There is a reason for every. single. abortion. It doesn't matter if they "made a bad decision" and have to "suffer the consequences". You are so focused on the potential individual that you forget to empathize with the already present complex individual right in front of you.
Although not a huge data set I beleive this study perfectly represents this. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/41...decision-study. Im sure there is a percentage of people who experience grief and regret with an abortion, such as with any big life changing decision. However, using your very limited, subjective experiences with women who have gotten abortions as a base for the majority of women in the world is absurd and just illogical.
Some people have health complications, some made a mistake, others are not finacially or mentally stable, others are simply not ready or dont want a child, all of these reasons are valid because at the end of the day you can NOT take the bodily autonomy away from a woman. Is is their choice, and always will be. I see it as an ultimate violation of another, to force someone who does not want a child to nurture, carry and birth that being for 9 months and so on. And i always hear anti-abortion individuals going on and on about the "bodily autonomy of the fetus" and i find that ludicrous. Like i mentioned previously this fetus is simply an extension of the mother, without a fetus the mother still exists, without the mother the fetus would have never existed in the first place. Although irrelevant and maybe harmful to the topic, i must add, that even a full freshly birthed baby is not on the same value as the mother. In a life or death scenario, the mother must be priortized in any case.
I'm not sure if your view on this is just a personal standpoint or an actual goal of yours to achieve with like-minded people through advocacy and politics. If it is the latter I find it extremely selfish of you to impose this will unto another. It is not your decision to make, even if you think you are "saving a human".
I get Vixen though. At a certain point, grown women and grown men need to be responsible for what they do with their bodies because yes, that is fetus you are correct, but it also holds potential to be life. I'm pro choice but abortion is not a catch all answer because people don't care. As an adult you need to be responsible for your well-being and take care of your body. We can advocate to fund or support abortions, but is it really helping these cases in a long term perspective?
We should have more funding when it comes to sex education, resources, better healthcare when it comes to sexual health, and resources for contraceptives for people who cannot afford it. Being celibate is not the answer for everybody, but being mature and handling yourself is. If you're unable to take care of your body, respect someone else's, and be responsible for what consequences happens afterwards sex should not be something you should be worried about. Too many ignorant people these days having kids
Last edited by Metanoia; 08-14-2023 at 09:01 AM.
I'm old school. Luckily I'm gay so I don't have to worry about children but I do have to worry about other things if I ever do decide to venture in that area. Honestly when you reach my perspective... And see the true side in life...all you see is people being there only for your body and nothing else. Respect your body don't let just anybody sleep with you... Don't let them people disgrace your temple. It breaks your spirit down. Your self worth plummets. These bums don't give a fuck about you they want 1 thing and 1 thing only. Your body ain't got a price on it and remember that. Don't give nobody the time of day
I empathize with these people and I don't judge them because I'm not perfect. It's not up to me to decide if you're wrong or not. You made some decisions in your life and we're human, you did the best you could do in that moment. You were mature enough to realize you couldn't mentally or physically take care of a child and that's the only choice you felt like you could make. I don't have hate in my heart. People preach about how it's murder but at the same time want to kill them too. It's just hate and ignorance.... If you sit down and speak with them you'll learn things you never knew. No one knows what they would do unless it actually happens to them
I don’t believe that pulling the plug on cancer patients is justified, as it wouldn’t really affect someone else directly the same way a pregnancy works. Simply I mentioned that because I still think that the fetuses' life still matters, thus still worth something and shouldn’t be killed off unless there is a strong reasoning for it.
Im sorry for what youve gone through again but imposing your view on potential others is selfish. The simple difference between you and a fetus that will inevitably be born into a shitty situation is that you have already been born, you have lived through these human experiences and suffered, you are an individual. By not aborting this fetus the mother conciously makes a choice to throw this individual into a traumatic situation, however if the mother decides to abort it, the "individual" becomes non existant, it never existed in the first place because it never got to the stage of conciousness and life. You are not "killing a human" you are simply preventing cells from turning into one.
Well you want to impose your views onto me, I just find the reasoning that “the child may suffer” not a just reason to have an abortion, just put the child up for adoption. Fetuses are simply just clumps of cells with an underdeveloped brain, even still we as individuals are clumps of cells that have an impact on society, working together, and so on. The fetus is still a person, just an incomplete one. Just because it doesn’t have feelings doesn’t mean it’s right to kill it without reason(for the sake of survival for example).
To the point of abortions being traumatic, yes of course they are. However this does NOT mean most people regret them. There is a reason for every. single. abortion. It doesn't matter if they "made a bad decision" and have to "suffer the consequences". You are so focused on the potential individual that you forget to empathize with the already present complex individual right in front of you.
Again. Just emphasising that the fetus isn’t useless, and still could become something, on why it shouldn’t be seen as just something less. Yes we can’t judge whether the fetus might grow into a shitty person or not, but at the end of the day, judging based on what could happen wouldn’t make sense.
Although not a huge data set I beleive this study perfectly represents this. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/41...decision-study. Im sure there is a percentage of people who experience grief and regret with an abortion, such as with any big life changing decision. However, using your very limited, subjective experiences with women who have gotten abortions as a base for the majority of women in the world is absurd and just illogical.
I’m a woman myself, however you still have to understand that not just it causes physical pain, but again people will rationalise things in order to not feel the emotional impact with such a big decision. Simply again, implying that abortions are not a good thing, even if it may be needed. I have seen my own best friend have an abortion in the girls bathroom, and she was just crying in pain while I didn’t agree with her own decision, I still had to help her out. That was the time when I actually started to see how ugly abortion is. Maybe if she wasn’t with her shitty boyfriend, this would have never happened, and a lot of abortions happen because the man isn’t reliable or even competent enough to actually be a man and step up and actually help her out and take responsibility. And if men actually started actually helping out women and had the same obligations legally to help out and protect her after impregnating her, then would most abortions happen, likely not. Yes, a lot of abortions are caused indirectly by shitty man, and allowing abortions to be so normalise, which then allows shitty men to get away with abandoning women after sleeping with them.
Some people have health complications, some made a mistake, others are not finacially or mentally stable, others are simply not ready or dont want a child, all of these reasons are valid because at the end of the day you can NOT take the bodily autonomy away from a woman. Is is their choice, and always will be. I see it as an ultimate violation of another, to force someone who does not want a child to nurture, carry and birth that being for 9 months and so on. And i always hear anti-abortion individuals going on and on about the "bodily autonomy of the fetus" and i find that ludicrous. Like i mentioned previously this fetus is simply an extension of the mother, without a fetus the mother still exists, without the mother the fetus would have never existed in the first place. Although irrelevant and maybe harmful to the topic, i must add, that even a full freshly birthed baby is not on the same value as the mother. In a life or death scenario, the mother must be priortized in any case.
That’s something I’ve mentioned, I’ve stated that I don’t see why an abortion is justified without reason. Saying that I did see it as something justified in cases like rape, mother being underage, health complications, etc. But I’m talking about abortion done out of reason, like hooking up, etc.
Those people who are more on the prolife spectrum than me simply just want to say that killing a unborn child is wrong regardless, I understand them, but again the mother’s life matters as well, just when a woman is perfectly capable of having a child without complications, and can just give it up for adoption, I don’t see why they have to have an abortion unless they did not consent to having sex or let’s say the man poked holes in the condom.
I'm not sure if your view on this is just a personal standpoint or an actual goal of yours to achieve with like-minded people through advocacy and politics. If it is the latter I find it extremely selfish of you to impose this will unto another. It is not your decision to make, even if you think you are "saving a human".[/QUOTE]
I just think abortion is murder, in some cases murder can be justified, just abortion isn’t going to be justified in a lot of cases. Even if it’s not a fully developed human, it’s cells are still alive and growing, thus still a person, but incomplete.
Only 4% of abortions are done because of Physical health problems, 3% are done because the fetus has some deformities that wouldn’t even allow it to live(dieting later on in pregnancy), and only 0.5% of abortions are done because of rape. That alone, I’ll say at least 7.5% of abortions are just, on top of that, 9% of abortions are done by teenagers(minors), which brings me to at least understand 16.5% of abortions and believe that they are justified.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...n-america.html
https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/u...on_statistics/
86% of abortions are done outside of those reasons, 23% are done out of poverty(understandable, but vague/Complicated), so alone I don’t see 63% of abortions as justified because of reasons such as “Would interfere with education or career”-Not mature enough to raise a child-Don't want to be a single mother-Done having children-Not ready for a child.
If someone is willing to have sex, recklessly, they are consenting to doing a process that is meant to have kids even though the pleasure is what is valued. I don’t get why people can masterbate, or at least use better protection, etc. People have the right to do what they want, free will, but not willing to accept responsibility, or at least not kill an unborn child when they can just give it up for adoption.
Yes I still think it’s shitty to not look after the child, both mother and father wise, but it’s much better than killing it off because I still think their lives are valuable and inherently worth as much as any other innocent person, however there can be situations where it’s justified in order to preserve the health of the mother, etc.
Simply, I don't believe abortions should be done like it’s normal or so common, because at the end of the day, it’s still killing another life form. I also think that men should have a legal obligation to actually provide and protect the woman they impregnate even if it was all from a hookup, they still play a role in this whole issue as well. But if it’s okay for a father to abandon the mother and child, then I don’t see why the mother can just abandon the child rather than killing it.
based, I also think that there should be more programs created to actually help out single mothers or women who need to actually advance their careers, to get out of poverty and because we all know that today, a lot of men aren’t even competent enough to help a pregnant woman out even though the pregnancy wouldn’t have existed without them.
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