Preclusion by introverts to see extroverts as shallow/stupid and thus avoid duals

[bolong]

Ah yes, the extraverted-introverted dichotomy that subverts socionics bc most Americans in their mid-twenties and younger see only this when choosing friends/SOs.

[BlackholeRoad]

I know plenty of introverts who are both shallow and stupid. Hell, I'm both to a certain degree, definitely vain in my own right and decisively ignorant and unwilling to educate myself out of sheer laziness at times, and despite my type crisis I'm experiencing, I'm most definitely an introvert. I don't think those traits can accurately characterize either grouping, imo.

[ClownsandEntropy]

It's not directly related, but for me the hardest part about talking to people is that they have their own interests. Not sure if this is a common LII experience but there's lots of times when all I care about is topic X, and I really want to talk about topic X, and if you're going to talk to me about something else then I'm going to struggle to make myself care. Which is a shame because I want to care, because if I care then this conversation won't be so awkward.

But the thing is, some extroverts change their interests according to what's going on externally, whereas I'm still focused on this one thought that I think is really interesting even though it's not related to where I am at all. So I find whatever people are talking about difficult to relate to and other people hard to engage

I find lots of extroverts interesting and funny because at least they're actually doing stuff. It's just difficult to keep up. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm socially inept, and other times it makes me feel like I wish they'd just chill out because I don't know what they want me to do.

Also: introverts can be shallow/stupid too.

[Kim]

I find lots of extroverts interesting and funny because at least they're actually doing stuff. It's just difficult to keep up. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm socially inept, and other times it makes me feel like I wish they'd just chill out because I don't know what they want me to do.

I can only speak for myself, but in terms of extroversion/introversion, I don't want you to do anything other than what you are doing. Being around introverts calms me down and I don't expect them to act extroverted... Other extroverts can agitate and burn me out.

[Beautiful sky]

I can only speak for myself, but in terms of extroversion/introversion, I don't want you to do anything other than what you are doing. Being around introverts calms me down and I don't expect them to act extroverted... Other extroverts can agitate and burn me out.

Nice post

I've heard similar things from other extraverts.

[wacey]

http://themetapicture.com/how-to-int...e-introverted/

[Park]

Credit goes to @Wacey.

[Eliza Thomason]

A lot of ESTps I've known come off as scary or intimidating to me. It's a wonder why, because they've never really hurt me all that badly, ever. A couple I've run across that didn't really register were your average Joe types. But those exist in every type. My issue is finding one who actually has a life (he will then seem daunting to approach), and getting him to pay attention to me. For more than five seconds. Some ESTps I've known, a couple really, have an argumentative nature that makes me run for the hills. But that's probably for he best anyway, as I don't see them as attractive. If I could only find Mr. Right. Aka Knight in shining armor delusion. Anyway

I think ESTps just like people and appreciate anyone approaching them. They are good people-watchers too so they see who might be sensitive, and being so very extrovert they have embarrassed people before and take care now and don't want to embarrass a sensitive person, especially one who honors them with interest. They are considerate, though brash..

I really want my son to find and if IEI someday. I feel like they are the only ones perceptive and deep enough to know there is a good and complex person behind the simple silly extrovert.

I think all I's should realize that they have something to offer their Duals that their Dual really needs and cannot get anywhere but from them - them just being themselves. Their Dual may well not be aware they need it, yet, but only needs to spend time with them to have it dawn on them that they cannot live without this... Knowing that you are the unique and special possessor of this precious gift should give you confidence that even if your Dual does not see anything so special on the first meeting or two or three, you only have to bide your time, because they will.

[Eliza Thomason]

Thanks for that @Park (and Wacey!). Great illustration.

For I and E, I always think of the illustration in the book Gifts Differing, of the General and the Aide. The Extrovert is the General who leaves his Aide in the tent to take care of various necessities while he goes to meet the people, to taking care of important business. That is the major part of his personality you see, the more minor part of his personality is inside the tent,.

The Introvert General stays inside the tent taking care of important business while he sends his Aide out to meet the people and take care of what must be done there. So the major part of his personality stays inside. So with my SiTe, his major part is Si so that stays in side the tent, and he sends aide Te out to deal with everyone as necessary.

One of the things I love about my "I" guy is I get to be a part of that exclusive "in the tent" world.

And its so cozy-comfortable in there.

[FDG]

An SLE friend was having a vent about how she couldn't find a job the other day, and said she thought I'd go far because I thought before I spoke, whereas she and the bf (both SLE) tended to speak first and think later.

I'm sure you know that it's technically impossible to "think" first and "speak" later, right? The brain has to somehow fire if you're speaking.

[anndelise]

I'm sure you know that it's technically impossible to "think" first and "speak" later, right? The brain has to somehow fire if you're speaking.

Do you mean speak first, think later?

Actually, I do that more often than not. As I speak, I hear what I am thinking through my verbalized words...which don't always come out right. So then I verbally edit right afterwards. To assume that I meant the first words, and that I had considered what I was going to say before I said it, would be a mistake. I am quite familiar with "open mouth, insert foot".

Stream of consciousness is more like it.

[FDG]

The brain fires when you're in a coma too, so your definition of "brain firing" = "thinking" is probably a bit too generous...

So how would you define thinking? I'd say that in order to construct a sentence with understandable syntax you need to "think".

[nigh]

I've never experienced whether a person "talks first, thinks later" or vice versa as a trait of extroversion/introversion. I tend to think first, but it's an acquired attitude because I didn't like what I saw in many situations when I didn't. And I know many extroverts who do that(think first mostly), too.

But I think it may be more related to cautiousness and perfectionism and such than other things, and these characteristics are not exactly not type-related, so I can't say I know for sure that extroversion/introversion has nothing to do with it.

[FDG]

I don't know if it's a figurative turn of phrase that doesn't translate well in Italian. The gist is, extroverts have a greater tendency to think out loud - "stream of consciousness" as anndelise put it, a tendency to verbalise thoughts that aren't entirely organised yet, whereas introverts tend to organise thoughts into a coherent whole before speaking, and those extra few minutes of thinking before speaking, or reorganising thoughts, might give the illusion that introverts are more intelligent, because the thinking process is hidden and you only see the finished product (i.e. fleshed-out idea). Note the word "tendency".

Okay, yeah you meant it as a figure of speech, everything's clear now.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I wouldn't say that I see extroverts as shallow and stupid. There are people I dismiss as obnoxious, but I could not say whether they are extroverts or introverts.

[noid]

Ive read only the title
you don't get it, okay introvert see sometime extrovert as superficial idiots but they don't avoid dual even if there action seem to mean it, in reality they look for the "perfect dual"

[Beautiful sky]

Well, in my case. I read and watch who the person is on a general scale and how what they're interests are align with my own and my general background. When I find as many parallels as I can I find that to be an agreeable match although that discounts other things that that person could be and that is when I take a leap of faith and get to know them personally. Otherwise, I avoid most people in general and get to know only a very close circle. I choose this close circle over a long period of time with people who are warm, affectionate, considerate, and kind.

[Soupman]

This thread clarifies something I've noticed over the years. Namely that introverts can be really dumb, but nobody really catches on because they keep their mouths shut more.

@jughead this is the undisputed truth, take heed please.

Einstein and Newton were extroverts ILE-Ti LIE-Ni respectively

[Soupman]

I'm a sucker for warm ESFs they are smarter than stereotypes suggest if you know how to type properly you'll see that. Also the wrong subtypes of both SEE and ESE are really unattractive for me, DCNH has been surprisingly true for me, though its hard to learn.