I wrote them based on my understanding that INFp-Fe---> closer to ISFp, and INFp-Ni ----> closer to INTp, with a bit of my understanding of Meged's descriptions and of people I know.Originally Posted by snegledmaca
Perhaps my descriptions are rubbish, but on the other hand it would make sense -- after all, aren't you closer to INTp than to INFp? Also as a 5?
Could you tell us precisely how you identify more with Fe than Ni, especially in Meged's descriptions?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Yes to both. And just so you don't get the wrong impresion, I don't find your descriptions rubbish at all, quite the contrary, they're making me seriously consider Ni as my subtype.I wrote them based on my understanding that INFp-Fe---> closer to ISFp, and INFp-Ni ----> closer to INTp, with a bit of my understanding of Meged's descriptions and of people I know.
Perhaps my descriptions are rubbish, but on the other hand it would make sense -- after all, aren't you closer to INTp than to INFp? Also as a 5?
Well they both fit well and to be honest I can't really make a choice from reading the descriptions as no single part of the profiles can be extracted from which I can make a choice.Could you tell us precisely how you identify more with Fe than Ni, especially in Meged's descriptions?
But on a general scale of what the profiles are trying to convey, I identify more with the Fe subtype cause it describes people who seem to be emotionally manipulative in themselves and others more then the people in the Ni subtype description.
On myself, I'm very much dependent on monitoring the internal states of people for reassurance of things being right. And this includes active manipulation of such states to ensure my safety or as you put it the heading of my boat. This is my modus operandi.
IMO this describes dependency on the usage of a producing function that deals with internal states of objects or in other words Fe in INFp-s (Or ISFp-s). I just can't see myself where a state of manipulation of images takes precedence over this.
Yes, but this is the essence of the INFp type, that is, producing Fe ----> accepting Ni. This doesn't change with subtype.
To carry the boat image further, I think that both subtypes would be sitting at the observation point enjoying the journey itself, but the Fe subtype would check the emotions of the people on the boat more often; the Ni subtype would concentrate more on the river itself, focusing on those people a bit less. But it's the same mechanism, the same interaction. It doesn't really change.
Yes, that had occurred to me as the functions are independent from each other and contrasting them one only gets two separate processes.
But is this really so?
I do the monitoring and heading control automatically and intertwined, a change in course implies a change in mood and vice versa. You could say the mood is how I steer the ship so a preference for one would automatically imply a preference for the other.
I'm now puzzled and skeptical as to how can a preference even exist. Better mood control implies better steering, better steering implies better mood control.
Ok, what about this - -
Both the INFp and the INTp's Ni receive input from both Te and Fe.
In the case of the INFp-Fe, his journey is influenced by Te only minimally, perhaps less than 10%.
For the INFp-Ni, getting closer to INTp-Ni, it's perhaps 20% Te, 80% Fe.
So there is a preference, but it doesn't change, it's on automatic pilot, as you seemed to indicate.
For the INTp, it's the reverse.
And a 50-50 Fe-Te preference would be the famous INXp crosstype, assuming that they exist.
You're implying a fluid state of psyche, you're implying fluid roles of functions in the psyche as oppose to static one.
I could see that.
Ok, let's say it's so. The influence of Te is lessened in the Fe subtype. What about the dominant position? What makes one think that it wouldn't play at least a little part in the dominant position, if only a fraction of a 1%? How would this reflect on the subtype?
If the fluid state is actual it would imply that all functions are in all positions just distributed over them. If you add up all the percents of the roles they play you should then get 100%.
EDIT: Perhaps fluid isn't the right word as your not implying that these percentages can change. More like intertwined, overlapping.
Well, it starts to get complicated. But we all know that we don't use only our dominant function. We use all the functions.
If I were to take it to the dominant function and look at the ISFp, Fe ----> Si. The ISFp is also there at the ship, but probably not concerned so much with the journey. He's concerned about his sensorial senses, his sense of physical we-being, and that is provided by the emotional state of those people in the ship.
If we stay only with INFp/ISFp, since INFps also use Si, we can also say that the Fe input they get affects their Si, but now which proportions are we talking about?
It starts to get complex, and it certainly is -- as complex as the psyche of a real human being, rather than a simplified type.
Well perhaps they do change, this is one of the discussions here. According to Smilingeyes's interpretation, even the dominant function changes along the temperament.
But I am trying to explain here how the subtypes may differ, assuming that they are more or less fixed, even as remaining still the same type.
I'm not really following you here. What are you talking about, what proportions of affect? Only through basic interactions can functions influence each others functioning. The Fe input/output cannot affect Si-s input/output, it can only affect the conglomeration of Si – Fe or the input/output of Fi, Te or Ti.
The Fe input influences the ISFp who then influences the Si. The same for INFP or any other type for that matter. Are you talking about this proportion of influence? I understood that you were talking about a direct influence.
I'm not sure I'm following you there. Are you seeing Fe-Si as a sort of rigid block, as Fe-Ni for INFps? That is the case according to model A, but if we consider subtypes as INFp-Fe getting closer to ISFp-Fe, we have to assume that these blocks may be more flexible.
No, I mean these blocks exists.I'm not sure I'm following you there. Are you seeing Fe-Si as a sort of rigid block, as Fe-Ni for INFps? That is the case according to model A, but if we consider subtypes as INFp-Fe getting closer to ISFp-Fe, we have to assume that these blocks may be more flexible.
Consider it like a regular 2D figure where each corner is connected with a line to another corner, say an octagon. One of these lines is between Ni and Fe and by affecting say Fe we affect all of the lines it possesses.
But that's affecting the lines and by affecting Fe we do not affect Ni despite the fact that we affect the line between them.
We're just moving the Fe corner around.
But by moving the Fe corner we are affecting the Fi, Te and Ti as they are all mutually dependent as they process the same information.
By moving the Fe corner we move the Te, Ti and Fi corners as well.
That's what I'm trying to say.
A INFp Fe subtype would in no way influence or bring that person closer to being a Si type as the Fe doesn't affect Si at all. But it might make them appear to be similar.
Well, that's possible. Personally I don't think that my Te is only affected by Ni, I think it can also be affected by Si.
I think that Fe subtypes of INFp and ISFp do appear to be similar, even as they remain different types, sure. But as to Fe not affecting Si at all in the case of INFps - *shrugs*. I wouldn't think so, but then we are getting in the area where we could only be totally certain if we could actually enter the minds of other types.
Well, I'm not a Fe-subtype if I'm INFp.
Guys if it helps at all this year I made a giant socionics compendium and combined all the information i could find into it. Also edited the russian translations to make more sense (subjective translation, of course, but I'm INFp so it may actually help) I have 3 descriptions collected for each subtype, I didn't write ANY of these, only translated them from Russian sources with an online translator, then made them work in the English language:
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INFp SUBTYPES
Intuitive (Ni) subtype: (The Idealist)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The intuitive subtype appears as a quiet, tactful, languid and diffident individual. They seem torn off from reality, inert and poorly adapted to life. However, such impressions are erroneous, for they possess a fine intuition, which aids them in establishing useful connections and obtaining support from influential people. Seem externally serene but sentimentally are disposed to experience moodiness and bouts of melancholy. While their voice at times seems monotonous they often induce a light surprise, even full interest, from the interlocutor. Outwardly are pensive, slightly strained/intense.. Prone to emanate sadness masked in sardonic irony. Speech is measured, smooth and intimately heart-felt. On their face they almost constantly exude a polite half-smile that easily wins people’s trust. Gestures are modest, shy. Gait is ponderous, elegant.
(Victor Gulenko) Facial expression is typically interrogative, and they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative. Their line of behaviour is frequently passive. Romantic spirits. They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions. They can be optimistic. They shrink away from conflict situations and support compromises. They are restrained in their clothing, elegant and refined. They can fulfill the functions of an abstract thinker, work in psychology and psychotherapy.
(Sexual behaviour) Act slowly, are patient and shy. Romantic, elevate themselves in feelings and dream about a great and prolonged love. Yielding in everyday demands (will try to be economically practical if their partner desires). Appear sexually timid, but their aim is for sexual harmony and the reaching of spiritual and physical perfection. Often act somewhat unsure of themselves. Require a volitional, decisive, active and energetic partner, whom possesses feelings of humor and inspiring confidence.
---------------------
Ethical (Fe) subtype: (The Diplomat)
(Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The ethical subtype provides the impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually look inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor allowing them to list their problems and failures while smiling. Are ironic, crafty, unpredictably and inconsistent in behaviour and conversation. Creating original contrasts, they can unexpectedly prick and then just as quickly embrace/kiss. Artistic and charming; are eloquent in dialogue, occasionally portraying shades of familiarity and impudence. They’re generally affable, kind and careful. Easily draw attention and thereby attract people; talent towards persuasion: states requests in such a manner that it is difficult to refuse them. Movements are graceful as is their gait. Speech is emotional, rich with shades, sometimes melodious.
(Victor Gulenko) Flatters and is charming and communicable. If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down. They will mobilize well in dangerous situations. Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour. They easily manipulate by intonation and voice; can work successfully as a journalist --- They easily succeed in enticing the person they talk to. Outwardly they can appear extravagant; frequently takes a bohemian and bright form.
(Sexual behaviour) Strongly emotional and they express their emotions easily. Are coquettish, enticing, and dress with taste. The aesthetes in relations, they value good manners. Know how to provoke their partner’s initiative. Usually remain diplomatic but sometimes become capricious, exacting and easily agitated, however they are easily appeased. Love sexual games and prolonged preparations. Need a strong, loyal, practical, sensitive and initiative-taking partner; and sufficient support in their lives.
INFp-Ni
The good:
Fe-subtypes - Genuinely sweet people - witty, observant, and more in tune with the now and here than the Ni-subtypes. The have nice smiles, too.
Ni-subtypes: Beautiful insight and visions; they have a sort of nobility and earnestness about them that is lacking in the Fe-subtypes.
Split-subtypes: Most come across as the Fe-subtype, with moments of Ni.
The bad:
Fe-subtypes - can be somewhat frustrating to me; oftentimes, they will insist on playing dumb... all the goddamned time. It's cloying, and impossible to snap them out of it. Like my roomate's fiancee - at idle moments, she'd revert to this baby-voice that was like Marylin Monroe after a prefrontal lobotomy. It was seriously grating.
Ni-subtypes - can likewise be frustrating, but for the opposite reason: oftentimes are pretentious. Most of the time, it comes across as blatent overcompensation for certain insecurities.
Split-subtypes: Bi-polar between the two above.
The ugly:
Fe-subtype - histrionic; the aforementioned roomate's fiancee would end up screaming at the top of her lungs and in tears on a weekly basis. She would give the impressions of making a scene for the sake of making a scene - often about some non-existant problem or one rather miniscule compared with the over-the-top dramatics she enlisted to bring them to the surface. There are always deeper issues seething away at the very bottom (mostly my roomate flirting with other girls), but she seemed unable to voice them outright.
Ni-subtype - obsessively maudlin; will oftentimes throw themselves into the pits of depression by ruminating and brooding constantly over their past; will end up struggling to make ends meet due to chronic passivity/inaction. In the worst cases, the world can get the better of them and end up life's tragic casualties.
Split-subtypes: All of the above combined.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Spotting INFps, distinctions between subtypes, advice
In the light of recent interest and Meged's terribly flawed description, I think it's worthwhile to resurrect the comparison between Ni and Fe subtypes, the former of which have been mistyped as INTps with more frequency than I'd like. Fe and split subtypes: please [s:2e10f24918]cross out[/s:2e10f24918] the ones that don't apply to you so that the distinctions can be discerned. Most of the below are traits that apply specifically to me, garnered from comments I hear from people. Bold = observed in both myself and my clones.
Easiest way to spot both subtypes in a group setting: Multitasking, eating while they work. If ambidextrous, will eat + drink + study all at once, with pencil in one hand, fork in the other, and a bottle of water in the middle.
Ni
- Habitually late, as if oblivious to the existence of time -- live at own pace rather than according to the clock.
- More likely to be inattentive during conversations, bother less with making the pretense of being interested in what the interlocutor has to say. Will slip off without warning to think about the Mysteries of the Universe, giving the impression of living in own world.
- Gives the impression of being too serious or arrogant for their own good, and deserves a good thrashing to be put in their place. I'm told that when I look at people with my head tilted sideways -- which I habitually do in conversations unintentionally -- I look like I'm mocking them and am challenging them to a fight! A number of people, including my mother, would dearly like to beat me up for my ISTj death stare:
Ni -> bad Se:
- Wild. Can be as impulsive as ESxps, if not more -- I need ESTps to stop me from getting into trouble more than the other way around. Come up with suggestions like "LET"S GO TO THE BOOKSTORE, NOW!" out of the blue. May stir things up when there's nothing happening, rather like an ENFj. Frequent complaints of bore-dom.
- With stronger craving formay suddenly pounce on friends and give them crushing hugs that last for more than 10 seconds. When I hug my ESFp friend, she goes: "Whoa, you're coming on so strong. Are you trying to squeeze the life out of me!?"
- Can be INFp aggressors and as initiative taking as Se types. Can also seem aggressive for pounding tables and shaking fists for emphasis in casual conversations. Unbridled aggression when unhealthy: if angered, may look for punchbags and ask bizarre questions like "Can I punch you?" Externally agitated, frequently pace around rooms in the thirst for activity, then collapse into a lifeless pile when there's nothing to do. Fluctuate between total lethargy and being all over the place when compensating for former inactivity. Unable to sit still, sometimes look in pain after sitting for too long.
- Less concerned with own appearance because "I'm in a hurry, it's a waste of time." Can often be seen wearing bad colour combinations, and with messy hair. Look weak, ungrounded, ghostly.
- Run far far away when people are sneezing or coughing, even if it's rude (counterphobic)
- Can remain in one position for a very long time, staring fixedly into space without blinking. May look pissed when doing so.
- Deteriorating state of health. One of the first things that ESTps notice about me is how I look more gaunt with time, and I appreciate the concern. Not that I'd recommend neglecting one's health as a way to attract ESTps.
- Get scared every once in a while that they're going to die from some disease or another.
- Fascination with archetypes or anything ancient -- Ti hidden agenda easy detectable through interests.
- Ask people around for their dreams and share their own in vivid detail, then analyze them. Naturals at Jung's sort of dream interpretation.
Unsure subtype, maybe "Fe subtype gone sour", maybe common to all
- Sometimes put aside their work like they're already competent with the subject matter. In truth, this is a cover up for the fear of having work process watched. May stare at a textbook without touching a pencil -- or while eating -- like they're smart enough to solve problems in their head. But in the end, all that's left is a blank page indicative of 0 progress.
- Occasionally bossy.
- Don't make the effort to smile when by themselves. Openly antagonistic. Tend to glare with pursed mouth. Natural expression = enmity, spite, indifference, annoyance or distrust. Even ESTps can look friendlier. Behave in extremes -- from morose seriousness to total silliness and frivolity.
- Body language gives off "don't come near me, leave me alone" vibes.
- In a new setting, tend to attract attention for creepy aura and haughteur. People have remarked that I give off a "stifling" feeling, and glare at strangers like they're enemies, like they owe me a million dollars, or like they've wronged me in their past lives. My ENTj ex-friend found me scary at first sight -- most people do.
- When unengaged in fruitful activity, wastes a lot of time reading or making up useless theories in front of the computer. ExTjs will get the impression that they are too unfocused and live in a fantasy world.
- Cry when listening to music. In public.
- Abruptly leave class in the middle of a lesson just to attend a once-in-a-lifetime concert against all opposition.
- Look of complete absorption and mesmerization when appreciating the fine arts.
- Carry around romances, fantasy novels, or comics that they may get out when they should be studying...
- Talk so loudly with friends that you can hear them from one floor away, so first impression may be that of rudeness. Females in particular will sound crass. Interfere with others' studies because of the sheer amount of noise they make.
- Often seen listening to music, studying to music and even reading comics to music (doubled enjoyment!!). Put off work to listen to music, with a dreamy smile.
- Scattered workspace and work methods. But don't criticize their disorganization, or you'll get a snappy reaction.
- Sucks up to teachers and other such authority figures. Can seem to fawn on them by acting like a damsel-in-distress.
- ESTj: "You work like a computer in the way you switch from one task to another with little concentration on each"
- ENTj: "Seem really insecure"
When walking, alternate between walking very fast, walking like a penguin/robot, stomping, and shuffling shoes through the floor.
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
@Baby: I've always been curious about the dreamy ones. I've met two in the past, and they're almost like different types because of how they're friendlier than I am. I can feel them closing the emotional distance whereas I sometimes distance myself from others on purpose and don't put as much effort into smiling, so I thought they were Fe subtypes. Guess I'll consider Fe subtype for myself and reorganize the list better.
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
Yeah I reconsidered after I posted that, lol. I think there are both moments of extreme Fe and moments of Ni here. I'm not too sure which is more prevalent, actually.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Aaah I can relate to those ;/ The unhealthy ni ones especially...now how do I become healthy?
don't do it... it's a scamAaah I can relate to those ;/ The unhealthy ni ones especially...now how do I become healthy
Being healthy is a scam? damndon't do it... it's a scamAaah I can relate to those ;/ The unhealthy ni ones especially...now how do I become healthy
I consider myself an Ni subtype. I don't care for my appearance at all, yet people say I have a very unique style. I think prior to knowing me people think I'm very cool, intellectual, unique. But I have horrible social skills so I end up just laughing or doing what I can to avoid talking, and people realize I'm not what they thought. I noticed when I do talk, people seem to just stare and not hear what I say. Around my friends, I will nervously grin alot, almost insanely. When alone or bored with my friends, I space out, and I've been told I seem very cold. I don't get approached much, so I probably give off scarey and unfriendly, or too happy go lucky. I don't know, it's a mix.
Oh yeah, this is very different from my INFp-Fe subtype friend. He goes out of his way to talk to everyone and make friends. He's pretty gullable, the boy next door type. Though lately he's been trying to cover this up, with a "manly" attitude.
INFp
Ashton's advice is to eat healthy, spend time on hobbies, etc.Aaah I can relate to those ;/ The unhealthy ni ones especially...now how do I become healthy
Since the "bad Se" is essentially there as a compensation for losing touch withIt's interesting how Jung uses the word "sublimation," because I did felt like I was dissolving into nothingless, and existence felt quite unreal. I was also so focused on interpreting one thing after another that I couldn't hear people much of the time. They'd ramble on for a minute, and then go "are you listening to me!?!?" and I'd be like "huh???" after trying to focus on the sounds for a couple of seconds. I wrote the following at the time:The introverted intuitive's chief repression falls upon the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality may, therefore, best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint are the characters of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression. This latter quality is a compensation to the thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain weight, so that complete 'sublimation' is prevented. But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, a complete subordination to the inner perception should develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis, exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects. [p. 511]
And also on the ultimate experience of
But apart from exercising more, I'm afraid I can't give you the ultimate answer. Just don't stay at home thinking about your purpose in life and other useless stuff. Go out there, commit yourself to a group for exercise (one that requires $ for entry so that you won't drop it halfway), sign up for manual labour, recover yourself as you get things accomplished. Turn off the damned computer, quieten your mind through jigsaw puzzles. Don't waste too much time sleeping or eating, eat 3 meals a day. Try meditation, or if you don't have the patience for that, Tai Chi. You can prevent eventual collapse by not denying yourself music and other "guilty pleasures" -- as I did for a long time in order to focus on productivity. Best to indulge in them while you're outside, stop trying to repress your emotions, allow yourself a brief moment to pour your heart out, and thou shalt achieve [s:28e13aaf84]enlightenment[/s:28e13aaf84] freedom.... That's all
I never imagined... That I'd dislike going to school so much.
I never imagined... That I'd be so reluctant to go to school. <- and this is coming from an ENTj. IME, Ni types have been prone to questioning their existence and falling out of daily life -- that is to say, skipping school and failing studies -- when they can't find an answer
Everything that has happened lately has left me completely speechless.
I feel like I've been deliberately left out.
Like I've been abandoned.
You guys... Are no longer with me.
You guys... Are no longer by my side.
Many things, many people... Chose to leave me.
Many things, many people... Decided that they didn't want me.
Even fortune has left me.
This is... Me.
A totally speechless... me.
I... Am not myself
As soon as I arrived at school
[ESTp] remarked on how I gaunt I look <- this has happened to me numerous times over the past year, too
[Friend 2] said that I look dejected.
[Friend 3] also said... "And you call yourself a living being? You look like the living dead" <- people tell me this almost as a matter of routine =/
Looking at the mirror... I also think that I look very drained of spirit.
I don't know... I don't know what's wrong with me.
Right now, I feel devoid of hope.
Crazy idea: Use your intuition to hook up with an ESTp. But eh, if you're unhealthy or complain about your health enough, they'll notice and approach you with concern even if you're strangers, then try to feed you and whatnot. My ISFj employer has done the same, too
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
Raisonpure, lol, I'm liking your posts more and more. It is very interesting what you are saying in regards to overly active Ni and the "bad Se" when you compensate for "losing touch with Si"...
I actually understand what you're trying to say! I think I'm a good example though, of *not* losing touch with Si and having pretty good Se.. or a way to find that need for Se, even if I'm not around Se Ego types. I did start exercising and got a yearly gym membership thing and that has actually really helped me release some tension inside myself I didn't even know I had.. it's making me a lot healthier too and I look great too... Seriously though, INFps, GO TO THE GYM if you're feeling down.. the endorphins released after working out are incredible, and make you feel great about yourself and what you're doing.. it makes me feel like I'm actually working towards a goal.. etc. and I get very happy when I reach that goal. It's also a lesson in discipline and self control to work out daily.. yes, daily. For 30 minutes. Obviously, don't over-work yourself, take random breaks but make sure to keep on persevering.. I feel like I'm stretching my Se when I go to the gym. It's no longer whining and dormant.
Si too.. hmm, I'm not really sure.. but it's like a fusion of my Ni & Si when I go outside.. I too, feel the best when I spend a whole day exploring nature, being outside.. etc. Just enjoying myself with the beauty of nature and listening to music whilst doing so. It's really when I am happiest.. *sigh* Thinking about it now makes me smile. I get to lose myself with the environment but I also give in to my Ni dreams and thoughts.. It feels glorious.. and free. I can lie there for hours.. sometimes when I'm walking around and the wind is blowing.. I just close my eyes and succumb to the feeling of it all.. FeFeFe. It's beautiful and I think I'm gushing too much now.
I have a serious thing about health ever since the whole working out thing.. hmm this has been going on for about 3 months now and it's making me a better person I think. Yes, INFps tend to be hypochondriacs I believe? I used to be like that.. perhaps I still am, but it's a lot better than before. I take care of what I eat, etc. A good relationship with Si is beginning to form.
Oh, and that thing about Ti hidden agenda being related to interest in archetypes & anything ancient - lmao, so true. I love the past, history.. things like that.. but I don't understand how that's Ti hidden agenda? I would believe that's more a combination of romanticizing the past because of NiFe.. Ni daydreaming about what could've been.. since it's related all to the passage of time and whatnot.. Fe because of how beautiful it "seemed to have been".. Maybe that's just me. I've always wanted to live in medieval/renaissance times.
So, raisonpure, do you love sitting and listening to music as much as I do in nature?
Yes, every word makes me feel nostalgic. It's been a while since I've been able to enjoy that luxury, and I'm quite sick because of it; krae calls it being "caged". Do you have photos of your adventures?
As for Ti hidden agenda, I once drew a diagram that illustrates Ni+Ti in a nutshell. I believe tcaud would like this:
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
@raisonpure: So mindmaps are related to?
You and Scarlettlux gave very good advice, which is applicable to all types in general. :wink:
No, mindmaps are not related to@raisonpure: So mindmaps are related to
You and Scarlettlux gave very good advice, which is applicable to all types in general. :wink:
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
Oh yes, I agree with you! I am the same about being outside....and my kids won't go outside these days because the sidewalks are covered with cicadas so I have to wait until my husband gets home to go on a walk. UGH. I feel so much better with exercise also. Great advice.
IEI-Fe 4w3
@ScarlettLux: If you ever move in with your dual... Do tell how he makes you healthier!
For example, I lead a healthier and more active lifestyle when I'm living with my LSE aunt because she compels me to follow her hygienic and orderly example. When I'm living with her, there's no doubt as to how things should be done: hair should be picked up after showers, water should be used sparingly (handwash rather than throw a tiny bundle into the washing machine), wake up before noon because meals are always served at the same time and I'll miss out on lunch if I oversleep, no TV after 11pm because of her sensitivity to noises, put things away back into their proper place immediately after use -- and her lifestyle is such that it's very clear where one thing or another belongs. I feel my best when I'm living with someone who imposes a life of routine and compels everyone to adhere to it, never encouraging deviance by picking things up for slackers. With clean surroundings, a tranquil state of mind, and no computer/television/music, the routine of studying naturally follows. It's also hard to fall into laziness around someone like her who's constantly about and ensuring order in the house. So I take a vacation to her place when I'm very unhealthy, and recover my vigour within a week...! It's like a cleansing.
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
Yikes..
That actually doesn't sound too pleasant to me, raisonpure. The thought of LSE just makes me cringe a bit inside. I live with my LSI and ESI dad and mom respectively and they already drive me to the brink of insanity with their incessant cleaning and neat-freakness. However, it's funny, cause I know deep down that I would be a total mess if they weren't there to take care of me and actually, I do appreciate the neatness.. I just don't really apply it all the time
Anyway.. if I ever do move in with my SLE.. which will never be likely since I just finished Gr 11 and he just graduated from Gr 12
raisonpure, are you saying you feel healthier and recover your vigor around your conflictor? Perhaps you meant LSI rather than LSE?
Socionics: XNFx
MBTI: INFJ
Actually, I don't feel healthier and recover my vigor around my LSE teacher at all. On the contrary, I become totally drained of energy after spending only after 3-4 months around him, which only intensifies the need for duality so that I can get a recharge. I get frustrated with the lack of change -- a stable environment suffocates me -- so I'm currently in the phase where I have little energy for anything but sleep, wasting entire hours lying down, eating, staring into space, or scanning the environment for Se types. My health and vitality literally drops to an alarming level -- something that doesn't happen when I'm living with my ILI father, but seems to repeat every 5-6 months when I'm with my teacher and mother (the greater
raisonpure, are you saying you feel healthier and recover your vigor around your conflictor? Perhaps you meant LSI rather than LSE?
I'm quite sure my aunt isn't an introvert. She valuesHer sensitivity to noise makes me contemplate EIE at times, except she's good at providing
“I think, therefore I'll think" - Ayn Rand (ESTp, UR GUARDIAN ANGEL)
IEI subtypes...
I've been thinking that there has to be something to the concept of subtypes... perhaps it could explain the differences I see in my own type, IEI/INFp.
Particularly, I've noted here that many self-described IEI report various traits of spaciness, passivity, shyness, nonassertiveness and the tendency to "go along" with more willful personalities. I don't relate to any of this, except perhaps the common tendency toward avoidance. I do avoid or put off what I find unpleasant. As well, when I was younger, I was considerably more withdrawn, but never really a "joiner". If a group of friends were doing something I didn't want to do, I'd generally beg off. In fact, I'd never really experienced peer pressure in any significant amounts. Therefore, I never drank before college, never took up smoking, and never engaged in any illegal drug use. (I've still never done any "controlled substances").
Could this illustrate the difference between -
I've always tended toward dramatic (some would call it melodrama). I can be very volatile and willful, but also very clearly consider myself predominantly an introvert, first and foremost, as my primary tendency is strongly internal self-reference. I'm much more social than I ever used to be, but I still guard my private time very zealously. Solitude often feels like my "natural" state.
Does it seem that the -
What do you think? All ideas appreciated...
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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According to the descriptions I just read, I'm an ethical subtype, although I can relate to other types.(ENFJ,ENFP, etc) Typing is great, but personality isn't something that's stable. You can be who you want to be at any given moment.
& there's way more to life/who you are then just typing, confidence can make a huge different here.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Actually, personality is pretty stable after age 20. I just don't agree with the premise that "you can be who you want to be".
Of course, while I don't think every trait can be boiled down to a type description, I think some of these distinctions are helpful in differentiating the range of characteristics within a single personality type. ie: why many descriptions of IEI seem to generalize this "spacy", "deferential", "willingly led" personality, whereas some IEIs might not relate to that.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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I think you might be confusing personality with identity. In either case, stability is an illusion. If someone calm/cool can breakdown in a second, what does that say?
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Stability does not mean "predictable" or "unchanging" in any sense. I don't know many "calm/cool" people who break down in a second. Usually, calm/cool people don't generally have issues with emotional control. If they appear calm/cool but breakdown in a second, they're not really calm/cool, then are they?? Volatile, but probably they've always been hair-trigger... so in that sense, their personality really hasn't changed much.
I daresay people who lose their temper quickly always have to contend with the tendency to do so. They might make significant gains in self-control, but their basic "tendency" toward reacting remains stable.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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Hmm, well, some more thoughts:
Stability by definition = the quality or attribute of being firm and steadfast
Personality is anything but that. If someone breaks down in a second, it doesn't mean their calm/collected? Calm/collected people are not allowed an emotional breakdown? That's abit silly.
Thats the same type of bs as:
'Real men don't cry'
So if you cry, you are not a man?(many people consider this true, funny enough).
If personality was stable, people would be alot different. We do what feels right, whatever that may be. What feels right, varies, what we do varies, who we are varies.
Again, I do believe you are confusing personality with identity. Because of the countless things we take in every MICROsecond, there's no way we aren't going to be changing constantly, regardless of concious knowledge.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Not what I said. What I said is that they "typically" have their emotions in check. Everyone can be unstable emotionally at some point.
But their overall personality remains consistent.
I think this is just quibbling over semantics here. Or perhaps even projecting. Either way, you don't have to agree with me.
We don't always do what feels right. Many people follow social codes because they're "supposed to". I can tell you I can't always do what feels right because I have responsibilities and committments. Annoying, but often a trade-off.
This is what sounds enneagram 4ish. I typically experience identity issues, actually, because I tend to base my self worth on shifting emotional tides. That's what's unstable.
However that element of my personality has always remained rather stable, ie: consistent since childhood.
socio: INFp - IEI
ennea: 4w5 sp/sx
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