Examples of and reactions to PoLR "Hits"

[Exodus]

What do you mean by "benefit"? Sure, music has plenty of benefits, but they are not the kind of thing that Te instinctively values.

One would be surprised. I think this is both right in a way, and wrong in another. Remember that it isn't functions that value things. It's people. And surely there are people who, influenced by their own , think "who cares about music? Just a bunch of people with smiley faces going 'hmm hmm hmm.' I never understood it. Now engineering...that's what's important." I know people like that, who've said almost the exact same thing, and they probably have been types with .

That was all I was saying.

But I also know people who are very much into music and who also have . Usually, these people appreciate intellectually-stimulating composers like Stravinsky, or if their tastes are pre-20th century perhaps Mendelssohn, Handel, etc.; and they may devalue composers like Tchaikovsky and Chopin (but not always).

The key here is that in the classical music world, people appreciate music for more than any one type. It's hard, I think, for people who aren't that much into music or classical music in particular to understand; each person may have a conception that music has a fairly limited role...to relax, to dance to, to socialize to, etc.

But actually, music involves all the functions of the Socion. Think of it more like literature: What different people get out of it may be very diverse.

My point was not that appreciation (or creation) of music is specific to Fe types. Just that Fe types tend to appreciate it (and probably create it) more. For instance, I have noticed a strong correlation between valuing Te/Fe and preferring to listen to news/music on the radio. (Actually that may have a bit to do with Ni/Si too.)

One type of Te-style music that comes to mind is "The Planets" (by Gustav Holst). I would bet good money on him being ESTj.

[Jonathan]

One type of Te-style music that comes to mind is "The Planets" (by Gustav Holst). I would bet good money on him being ESTj.

I agree Holst is probably some type with Te. I don't know much about his life, but I could also see ILI as a possibility.

Anybody else have an opinion on Holst?

[Exodus]

Drifting off topic here...

One type of Te-style music that comes to mind is "The Planets" (by Gustav Holst). I would bet good money on him being ESTj.

I agree Holst is probably some type with Te. I don't know much about his life, but I could also see ILI as a possibility.

Anybody else have an opinion on Holst?

Here is good evidence for INTp (at least over ESTj):

As a student, Gustav Holst was frugal. He never smoked nor drank. Since leaving home he had also become a strict vegetarian. But vegetarianism was not encouraged in his cheap lodgings in the 1890's. Since he was never given a completely nourishing meal, his eyes became very weak and his hand remained in constant pain. Yet despite all of the physical problems and his extremely shy and solitary nature, he was already showing an absorbing interest in other people. He hated conventionality and rejoiced in ideas he found fantastic or humorous. He enjoyed a good laugh.

[Jonathan]

Here is good evidence for INTp (at least over ESTj):

As a student, Gustav Holst was frugal. He never smoked nor drank. Since leaving home he had also become a strict vegetarian. But vegetarianism was not encouraged in his cheap lodgings in the 1890's. Since he was never given a completely nourishing meal, his eyes became very weak and his hand remained in constant pain. Yet despite all of the physical problems and his extremely shy and solitary nature, he was already showing an absorbing interest in other people. He hated conventionality and rejoiced in ideas he found fantastic or humorous. He enjoyed a good laugh.

Thanks. That confirms my own perception that he's NiTe based on listening to what his music sound like.

Getting back onto topic...

I've had a little revelation about just what seems to be wrong with most people's view of PoLR "hits," PoLR "blasts," and so forth. Rick made the great point that the PoLR hit isn't necessarily intended as a criticism; but I'd go a step further and say that sometimes it's intended with the utmost good intentions, and even accepted in an "I should do better at this" spirit.

See, it seems to me that most people who are strong in an area don't usually criticize people who are weak in that area. They save their strongest criticism for people they know can handle it, people who seem relatively strong in that area, but where there may be a disagreement of position.

Reflecting and observing, it seems to me that most people deal with other people's PoLR not by criticizing, but by trying to change the other person...by trying to help the other person with his/her "deficiency."

For example, here's how types may possible handle an ILI:

SEI: With utmost compassion, talk to the ILI about his possible difficult childhood as a potential reason for why he seems so socially deficient.
IEI: Be friends but not introduce this weird ILI friend to her other friends.
EIE: Try to get the ILI to change in every possible way, and act frustrated that there so much work to do.
ESE: Offer food and other things that aren't asked for, and be hurt if the ILI doesn't respond in a certain way.

In none of these situations is the Fe person trying to be mean, nor is the ILI particularly offended. But hidden beneath this is the message that ILI is "damaged goods" in the other people's opinion. In contrast, the ILI or LIE may view himself intellectually superior to people with Te PoLR in some way, though he would never say that. Some types, may, over time feel that they're being treated as an inferior even when it's not the intention.

At its extreme, I see the problem as possibly getting to the point of abuse, where each person says in effect "It's a good thing you have me, because if it weren't for me, nobody else would want you," which is intended to create a one-sided relationship that destroys the other person's self esteem.

However, it doesn't necessarily get that point, because mature, non-abusive people can avoid such problems.

In contrast, in dual/activity relations, the orientation of perception/judgment function is flipped, and that flipping disorients any attempt to want to change the other person. Hence, whereas in comparative relations, a person thinks "if only I could get that person to develop his/her [whatever] side, he/she would have so much potential," in activity or dual relations, somehow the other person is coming from a place where you wouldn't even think of trying to develop something in him/her. Instead, you complement each other's needs....you do things that you like doing and find that the other person needs those things, and you find that the things that are so hard for you, the other person is good at.

But it's not some sort of magic. I'm of the opinion that people who think that their conflict/super-ego relation is someone who acts like a jerk to them are probably mistyping, and that most people actually appreciate their conflict/super-ego relations at a distance...and would never try to "hit" their PoLR except in a misguided attempt to change the other person.

[Ms. Kensington]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.
polr: ENTj to ISFp: you have too little knowledge. How is it possible for you to know so little

[UDP]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.

Ask them to explain anything.
Especially their many contradictions.

[Exodus]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.

Ask them to explain anything.
Especially their many contradictions.

At which point you'll just get a huge mass of thrown in your face.

[uninspired]

Example of (Si) POLR hit:

My ENTj father, who is my supervisor and my greatest love, wails away at my POLr on a daily basis without even realizing it. He constantly talks about school, future plans, work, things I need to be doing, etc. While I realize he does this because he loves me and it's natural for him, it still drives me nuts.
But back to the POLr part...

My father is an incredibly high-strung, INTENSE individual, always looking to improve and get things done. As a result, he's restless, loud, constantly in motion, and incapable of relaxing. Aware of his propensity toward anxiety, he's OBSESSED with relaxation techniques. He takes a mindfulness meditation class, does yoga, constantly reads books on relaxation, and is on anti-anxiety medication. Despite the fact that his inability to relax is his greatest weakness, he constantly lectures me (uber-anxious INFp) on how to relax and how to feel better about life, despite feverishly gesticulating and bellowing loudly while doing so, haha.

Though I never actually said this to him and (thanks to Socionics) never will, many times I've just wanted to scream,
"HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU TELL ME TO RELAX?! Your very presence does not allow me to relax! You talk about relaxation yet at the same time you only want to discuss the most distressing, depressing topics, and you're shouting at me! You are the least relaxed person I have ever met! Why should I accept advice about relaxation from a person who looks like he's about to have a heart attack every five minutes?! Relaxing is not an analytic process; it's something that you just DO! If you want to learn to relax, just sit down for a minute, put away your silly books, take a warm bath, and don't think about what's bothering you."

Sorry, I got carried away for a moment there, haha. But in my opinion, that would be an example of an POLR hit.

[FDG]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.

Ask them to explain anything.
Especially their many contradictions.

Lol ExFps are cute when they contradict themselves (as long as you're not in a relationship with them, I imagine)

[KSpin]

My Mum: "You really need to get a job".

Me: "Don't you think I'm fucking trying?!"

[implied]

My Mum: "You really need to get a job".

Me: "Don't you think I'm fucking trying?!"

i can relate with this. ): it's bothersome when you're putting forth a ton of effort and you're being slammed even harder for "not trying."

[Joy]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.
polr: ENTj to ISFp: you have too little knowledge. How is it possible for you to know so little

I dunno, these almost sound a little backwards. I think "what the fuck is your POINT" is more a Te PoLR hit than a Ti PoLR hit. Similarly, I could see an ESFp laughing off the top one but not the bottom.

Ti PoLR hit: "How can you think this if you also think that?" (point out contradictions)
Te PoLR hit: "That's not what's really going on here, this is what's really going on." Or correct their terminology repeatedly.

[Joy]

Example of (Si) POLR hit:

My ENTj father, who is my supervisor and my greatest love, wails away at my POLr on a daily basis without even realizing it. He constantly talks about school, future plans, work, things I need to be doing, etc. While I realize he does this because he loves me and it's natural for him, it still drives me nuts.
But back to the POLr part...

My father is an incredibly high-strung, INTENSE individual, always looking to improve and get things done. As a result, he's restless, loud, constantly in motion, and incapable of relaxing. Aware of his propensity toward anxiety, he's OBSESSED with relaxation techniques. He takes a mindfulness meditation class, does yoga, constantly reads books on relaxation, and is on anti-anxiety medication. Despite the fact that his inability to relax is his greatest weakness, he constantly lectures me (uber-anxious INFp) on how to relax and how to feel better about life, despite feverishly gesticulating and bellowing loudly while doing so, haha.

Though I never actually said this to him and (thanks to Socionics) never will, many times I've just wanted to scream,
"HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU TELL ME TO RELAX?! Your very presence does not allow me to relax! You talk about relaxation yet at the same time you only want to discuss the most distressing, depressing topics, and you're shouting at me! You are the least relaxed person I have ever met! Why should I accept advice about relaxation from a person who looks like he's about to have a heart attack every five minutes?! Relaxing is not an analytic process; it's something that you just DO! If you want to learn to relax, just sit down for a minute, put away your silly books, take a warm bath, and don't think about what's bothering you."

Sorry, I got carried away for a moment there, haha. But in my opinion, that would be an example of an POLR hit.

This is interesting. There's a thread about the Si PoLR in ENTjs in Gamma, and I think this would be an interesting insight to add there, if you wanted to.

What you mentioned could be a PoLR hit, but it focuses on a small part of having a Si PoLR. Of all the difficulties associated with a Si PoLR, not being able to relax is not really a big deal. It's frustrating that it takes so much work to really relax, but there are far more frustrating things, particularly related to caring for one's own day to day physical needs. It's unfair that eating and sleeping are necessary in order to work effectively. It's also frustrating that one's surroundings quickly become disorganized and difficult to work efficiently in if they are not kept up. If you wanted to focus on the relaxation thing though, a worse PoLR hit would be something like "How could anyone relax in an environment like this?"

btw, ask your dad if he's ever checked out SHARM. (It's a software program that you can download a demo for online.)

[Exodus]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.
polr: ENTj to ISFp: you have too little knowledge. How is it possible for you to know so little

I dunno, these almost sound a little backwards. I think "what the fuck is your POINT" is more a Te PoLR hit than a Ti PoLR hit. Similarly, I could see an ESFp laughing off the top one but not the bottom.

Ti PoLR hit: "How can you think this if you also think that?" (point out contradictions)
Te PoLR hit: "That's not what's really going on here, this is what's really going on." Or correct their terminology repeatedly.

Those examples are good, but Msk's first one is right on.

My Mum: "You really need to get a job".

Me: "Don't you think I'm fucking trying?!"

Fe? Sounds more like Se.

[Joy]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.
polr: ENTj to ISFp: you have too little knowledge. How is it possible for you to know so little

I dunno, these almost sound a little backwards. I think "what the fuck is your POINT" is more a Te PoLR hit than a Ti PoLR hit. Similarly, I could see an ESFp laughing off the top one but not the bottom.

Ti PoLR hit: "How can you think this if you also think that?" (point out contradictions)
Te PoLR hit: "That's not what's really going on here, this is what's really going on." Or correct their terminology repeatedly.

Those examples are good, but Msk's first one is right on.

Maybe from the perspective of the INTj... but "the point" is different for different people. We all think that those with different values are missing "the point". INTjs don't have any special insight or claim as to what the point is. ESFps know this, so when an INTj says, "what the fuck is your POINT" they may express frustration because they're talking to someone who doesn't understand them, but they most likely won't feel as though their PoLR has been hit. Not just from that one sentence at least.

My Mum: "You really need to get a job".

Me: "Don't you think I'm fucking trying?!"

Fe? Sounds more like Se.

Se or Te, more likely Se

[FDG]

Te.

Se would be more like, directly saying "you aren't trying hard enough to find a job!"

[Exodus]

polr: me to an ESFp : what the fuck is your POINT.
polr: ENTj to ISFp: you have too little knowledge. How is it possible for you to know so little

I dunno, these almost sound a little backwards. I think "what the fuck is your POINT" is more a Te PoLR hit than a Ti PoLR hit. Similarly, I could see an ESFp laughing off the top one but not the bottom.

Ti PoLR hit: "How can you think this if you also think that?" (point out contradictions)
Te PoLR hit: "That's not what's really going on here, this is what's really going on." Or correct their terminology repeatedly.

Those examples are good, but Msk's first one is right on.

Maybe from the perspective of the INTj... but "the point" is different for different people.

Fi bullshit.

We all think that those with different values are missing "the point". INTjs don't have any special insight or claim as to what the point is. ESFps know this, so when an INTj says, "what the fuck is your POINT" they may express frustration because they're talking to someone who doesn't understand them, but they most likely won't feel as though their PoLR has been hit. Not just from that one sentence at least.

What the fuck is YOUR point?

Of course, when you look at it more objectively you can get into the "sticks and stones" mentality, but socionics is about how people naturally act. So any appeal to what ESFps "know" is completely beside the point.

[Joy]

Are you saying that "the point" isn't subjective?

[Exodus]

Are you saying that "the point" isn't subjective?

It doesn't matter (in the context of a Ti PoLR hit) whether someone actually has a point.

[Joy]

Are you saying that "the point" isn't subjective?

It doesn't matter (in the context of a Ti PoLR hit) whether someone actually has a point.

A point or The point? Either way, I don't see how "what the FUCK is your point" can be a Ti PoLR hit.

A point: In this context, the INTj is pretty much saying, "You're talking too much about shit I don't care about and it's annoying." ESFps don't mind annoying people and don't care that the INTj doesn't care about what they're talking about.

The point: Different people see different aspects of a situation as being important... that's pretty much the basis of socionics. Accusing someone of not valuing what you value is not a PoLR hit.

[Joy]

In fact, I would say that an INTj saying "what the fuck is your point" is, if anything, a reaction to the ESFp hitting the INTj's PoLR (or at least an expression of distaste for overwhelmingly Se EP-ness).

[Exodus]

Are you saying that "the point" isn't subjective?

It doesn't matter (in the context of a Ti PoLR hit) whether someone actually has a point.

A point or The point? Either way, I don't see how "what the FUCK is your point" can be a Ti PoLR hit.

A point: In this context, the INTj is pretty much saying, "You're talking too much about shit I don't care about and it's annoying." ESFps don't mind annoying people and don't care that the INTj doesn't care about what they're talking about.

True, but they might mind that kind of criticism.

The point: Different people see different aspects of a situation as being important... that's pretty much the basis of socionics. Accusing someone of not valuing what you value is not a PoLR hit.

Well, yeah. Nobody values the PoLR, they just find it annoying.

In fact, I would say that an INTj saying "what the fuck is your point" is, if anything, a reaction to the ESFp hitting the INTj's PoLR (or at least an expression of distaste for overwhelmingly Se EP-ness).

There is a lot of truth to that. Except I would say the IxTj gets annoyed with the ExFp's Te Hidden Agenda.

[Exodus]

Te.

Se would be more like, directly saying "you aren't trying hard enough to find a job!"

Hmm, yes.

[Joy]

Are you saying that "the point" isn't subjective?

It doesn't matter (in the context of a Ti PoLR hit) whether someone actually has a point.

A point or The point? Either way, I don't see how "what the FUCK is your point" can be a Ti PoLR hit.

A point: In this context, the INTj is pretty much saying, "You're talking too much about shit I don't care about and it's annoying." ESFps don't mind annoying people and don't care that the INTj doesn't care about what they're talking about.

True, but they might mind that kind of criticism.

Nah, not ESFps. They might respond somewhat aggressively (and possibly joke about it with you or other people later), but most of the time something like that wouldn't actually bother them. It's more like "well screw you then! " rather than "".

In fact, I would say that an INTj saying "what the fuck is your point" is, if anything, a reaction to the ESFp hitting the INTj's PoLR (or at least an expression of distaste for overwhelmingly Se EP-ness).

There is a lot of truth to that. Except I would say the IxTj gets annoyed with the ExFp's Te Hidden Agenda.

Very true. They don't usually have a lot of patience for "what do you think about" type questions from ESFps.

INTjs and ESFps who are trying to get along are sort of funny to watch... The ESFp says something as if it's fact and waits for the INTj to correct it. They then use whatever the INTj has just said in a new "theory" on the subject (or at least a somewhat related subject ), and the INTj disagrees again, and the ESFp makes another assertion for the INTj to disagree with.

The INTj is thinking, "There's no way I can break this down so that it's simple enough for the ESFp to understand... she keeps connecting what I say with things it shouldn't be connected to, and I can't even use her own understanding of things to explain it in a way that will make sense to her because she's constantly changing her perception of things."

The ESFp is thinking, "lol wth? He talks like he knows everything, but does he ever leave the house? And what he's saying doesn't even make sense anyways because when I try to find examples or ways of utilizing the information, he just says I'm wrong without giving me information that I can actually use. Doesn't he understand that being smart doesn't matter if you never actually DO anything?"

Most of my friends have been ESFp, and I was married to an INTj, so I've had a lot of opportunity to watch them interact. The INTj thinks of the ESFps as psycho and not that bright (and pointless), and the ESFps think of the INTj as boring and easily annoyed (and pointless).

[XoX]

Te.

Se would be more like, directly saying "you aren't trying hard enough to find a job!"

I would agree. "You really need to get a job" sounds like a typical thing an ESTj would say. Perhaps they would say "You really need to get a REAL job".

[Quirk Satellite Div.]

Te.

Se would be more like, directly saying "you aren't trying hard enough to find a job!"

It could depend on how the receiver interpreted, "You really need to get a job.". A person can hear that and say in their head, "I am really incapable of putting any effort into finding a job.", which may be a PoLR smack, or the person could think, "I really don't have the skills and know-how on how to apply myself. No matter what I try to do, I don't have anything to offer that can afford me a decent salary.", which would attack a person's PoLR. The person attacking the PoLR isn't really attacking the deficiency directly, but when the receiver internalizes the thought, it turns into a reminder of incapabilities.



Or you know, a person can just get upset when someone else reminds them of or attack one's personal problems and weaknesses, irregardless of how it corresponds to a Model A function.

[Joy]

I could see it being related to a number of functions. It depends why it's said and why that person doesn't have a job already.

Se: You really need to get a job because, and the only reason you haven't gotten one yet is because you're not trying hard enough.
Te: You really need to get a job because it's financially unwise not to have one.
Si: You really need to get a job because you can't provide stability for yourself (or your family, if applicable) without one.
Fe: You really need to get a job, not because you actually need one, but because you're expected to have one.

[Gilly]

Fe: You really need to get a job, not because you actually need one, but because you're expected to have one.

God, you're still an idiot and a bigot.

[Exodus]

Fe: You really need to get a job, not because you actually need one, but because you're expected to have one.

There is definitely some Se in there too. Fe alone is not about that kind of image.

INTjs and ESFps who are trying to get along are sort of funny to watch... The ESFp says something as if it's fact and waits for the INTj to correct it. They then use whatever the INTj has just said in a new "theory" on the subject (or at least a somewhat related subject ), and the INTj disagrees again, and the ESFp makes another assertion for the INTj to disagree with.

The INTj is thinking, "There's no way I can break this down so that it's simple enough for the ESFp to understand... she keeps connecting what I say with things it shouldn't be connected to, and I can't even use her own understanding of things to explain it in a way that will make sense to her because she's constantly changing her perception of things."

The ESFp is thinking, "lol wth? He talks like he knows everything, but does he ever leave the house? And what he's saying doesn't even make sense anyways because when I try to find examples or ways of utilizing the information, he just says I'm wrong without giving me information that I can actually use. Doesn't he understand that being smart doesn't matter if you never actually DO anything?"

Most of my friends have been ESFp, and I was married to an INTj, so I've had a lot of opportunity to watch them interact. The INTj thinks of the ESFps as psycho and not that bright (and pointless), and the ESFps think of the INTj as boring and easily annoyed (and pointless).

Absolutely, especially the bolded parts.

[Kristiina]

There is very much very good information in that thread and I wish people would stick to their own PoLR or the PoLR or someone they know well. (uninspired about the ENTj dad was very interesting to read). No point in starting discussing some insult and discussing which PoLR it hits exactly.


back on topic.

My mom keeps hitting my PoLR. She's ISFp and she's a lovely person, but sometimes it's not nice. Like recently. I've been working my ass off in the gym and with my diet to lose a few pounds. I went to my parents home after being away from there for 3-4 months and I was chatting with my mom. The random chit-chat got to the point where she told me that she tried Pilates training and she liked it a lot. "And it's very easy! It would also be easy for you, if you have even 10-20 minutes every day, just to try some exercises..." *PoLR!!!!* I quickly interrupted her in a very perky energetic way and started telling her all about the weightlifting and such. I also told her that I already am losing weight and I told her exactly how much progress I've been making.

Even thought the conversation didn't go sour, I felt very sad about it. No one notices that I've lost weight. I work so hard and no one notices. I told my ESTp brother about it the same evening (one of those perky Fe conversations, "and pfffff, go figure, the weight loss doesn't even show"). He told me he noticed right away and even considered mentioning it. Also, my little sister said it shows. They said it shows very well. But I guess I still wasn't thin enough for mom.

The next time I went to visit my parents, I was trying on some shirt and made a joke to my INFp sister - "I can't wear this, it makes me look like a thug!". And then my mom commented in a perky way, "I thought you wanted to look strong. You lift weights".

I know she meant well on both occasions, but for me it's still PoLR.

[Joy]

lol I knew people would bitch

Fe: You really need to get a job, not because you actually need one, but because you're expected to have one.

There is definitely some Se in there too. Fe alone is not about that kind of image.

The idea wasn't that all Fe types think that way or that if someone thinks that way it's only because they are Fe. I was trying to think of ways that saying "you really need to get a job" COULD be related to different functions as far as PoLR hits go. How else could "you really need to get a job" be said in a way that would hit a Fe PoLR?

[Slacker]

Fe PoLR: Stop lazing around! You need to come inside and help entertain our guests.

[Gilly]

How about "People aren't going to respect you if you don't get a job."

[Joy]

How about "People aren't going to respect you if you don't get a job."

That's better.

[Joy]

How about "People aren't going to respect you if you don't get a job."

That's better.

However, to someone who doesn't value Fe that could very easily sound like a "supposed to" that's being unnecessarily expected of them.

[Slacker]

I asked my husband how he would respond if someone said, "No one will ever respect you unless you get a better job" and he said, "What, do you think that? Who would say that to me? My WIFE? What's wrong with my job? What the hell is that about?" I had to explain it was just a personality profile kind of thing and I didn't think that. He was really irate until I explained that I respect him and his job is fine and no one said that and that no I haven't been talking to my dad about him. That *definitely* hit a sore spot.

So I was doubtful about it but I was WRONG.

[Gilly]

Heh! Sometimes I kick ass

[Angel von Himmel]

How about "People aren't going to respect you if you don't get a job."

Yeah, but what if you are one of those types who make great entrepeneuers, therefore making really sucky employees and people act like assholes to them meerly because they have not found their niche and don't work as an employee. I pity those sort of people.

[Gilly]

Errmmm...try understanding the context next time. I wasn't making that assertion.

[KSpin]

I, personally, suck at getting jobs. I cock-up the interview all the time... I am incapable of lying to the interviewer, like I know a lot of people do, just to get a job. A job doesn't really mean that much to me, and I absolutely have to enjoy it, otherwise I cannot stick at it. My brain just freezes, starts hurting and I start to feel ill if I don't enjoy the work. Money is no incentive. Oh, and if the boss is an idiot, or arrogant, I will tell whoever wants to know.

The reason I get annoyed when I'm told I need a job is because it's as if she's questioning my commitment to the cause.

Edit: Actually, I don't really know why it is, it's partly the commitment thing, and partly because it plays on my knowledge that I find getting jobs hard to do, yet she seems to think it's as simple as turning up.