Examples of and reactions to PoLR "Hits"

[rat1]

The best way is to just ignore them and focus on the rest of the people you're with. Take control of that social atmosphere. In 1 on 1, the Fe polr type really doesn't give a shit if you insult them. If you really need some 1 on 1 defense Fi is the best way. Just call them fuckin assholes or something like that. Target the Fi.. their wimpy side will come out and then you can trample on them.

[Valori]

[Korpsy Knievel]

Boring. Try again.

If you want to tweak the PoLRs of an ILE and an ILI, lock them in the same room.

[Korpsy Knievel]

If you want to tweak the PoLRs of an ILE and an ILI, lock them in the same room.

[rat1]

nah it works.

[717495]

There are many ways to attack a polar.

Just know that it can and will attack back.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

There are many ways to attack a polar.

Just know that it can and will attack back.

*applause*

[Ozz]

If you want to tweak the PoLRs of an ILE and an ILI, lock them in the same room.

Killing two birds with one stone. Bonus: includes emphasis on the role function at absolutely no cost! Bravo!

[tcaudilllg]

The PoLR cannot be directly attacked; rather, you must criticize life-styles that exalt it.

This is why conflictors go at it.

[DividedsGhost]

I don't know why you would want to expend enough energy to actually do this, but if I was going to do it, the following is what I would do:

To attack the Fe-PoLR, turn whatever the ILI is doing into a focus of drama and external passion. They will become frustrated and stop participating and withdraw into isolation.

To attack the Fi-PoLR, turn everything they do into a popularity contest, where the person (or people) that are able to gain the most favor of the group get the most benefit and self-worth and the one's that don't get devalued, dehumanized, and ostracized.

PoLR is less a weakness and more something that a person sees as little or no value and avoids. So throwing them into their PoLRs unknowingly is the only way to accomplish this, imo.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

On an unconstructive note: every time I see the thread title, I think it's a gripe thread.

[tcaudilllg]

PoLR attacks are less a matter of attacking the PoLR as they are targeting the creating function. Cold, callous, ruthless... terms like these will get under an ILI's skin quite quickly. Anti-Fe terms which reflect the prioritization of Te.

"Unprincipled" -- that's a term ILIs dislike.

[jughead]

PoLR attacks are less a matter of attacking the PoLR as they are targeting the creating function. Cold, callous, ruthless... terms like these will get under an ILI's skin quite quickly. Anti-Fe terms which reflect the prioritization of Te.

"Unprincipled" -- that's a term ILIs dislike.

This is pretty much my thoughts against the offender already, ticket punched. I feel maximally money grubbed and exploited as they have 0 fe consideration in their demands and have to turn the tables 100% to end up with a semi fair deal. It's like dealing with an asshole industrial baron boss running his corporation whining about how the smallest gripes hurt his profit and has no stake in his employees wellbeing.
This is a big part of why I view Ashton as such a toolbag, especially when he lords about free-markets, its just an extension of the already dominant gamma Te in this country thats out of balance with our true problems and is like the ciggarette company telling us we need more ciggarettes to fix our addiction.
They are similar to gamma sfs in this manner. My fav article on gamma sfs:
http://www.socionics.com/articles/gammasf.html

[Korpsy Knievel]

PoLR attacks are less a matter of attacking the PoLR as they are targeting the creating function. Cold, callous, ruthless... terms like these will get under an ILI's skin quite quickly. Anti-Fe terms which reflect the prioritization of Te.

"Unprincipled" -- that's a term ILIs dislike.

So laughing aloud on reading this was the wrong response?

They are similar to gamma sfs in this manner. My fav article on gamma sfs:
http://www.socionics.com/articles/gammasf.html

Which butthurt LII wrote this hysterical screed? Uproariously ludicrous. Even funnier than the black & white demonization throughout this shrill tirade, the stinger just kills: "Written facetiously. These tactics are not recommended nor even desired by the author." I BURNED YOUR HOUSE TO THE GROUND AND SHOT YOUR PETS AND SPOUSE AND CHILDREN AS THEY FLED OUTSIDE, BUT I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN IT! ******, LOL!

[Pookie]

Call the ILI's contribution to the group useless, and a bunch of inane ramblings that don't make any sense in the real world.

Call the ILE boring, and plain. That his fresh perspective is really just a means of making people like him, and that he has no back bone on his own.

These are just examples, but really, --- Go for the throat---

[Suz]

Agree with a lot of u here:

I once read that

POLR hit = irritation
HA hit = grave insult
creative hit = grave insult

I've found these to ring true ime as well.

[Simon Ssmall]

Polar beers hit only when there is a real and valid reason to use your weak function but you can't, not when someone is trying to make you use it or when someone implies you should use it. If something like this happens you normally just ignore it or think the person is an alien, you don't go climbing walls and raping women.

[Suz]

Polar beers hit only when there is a real and valid reason to use your weak function but you can't, not when someone is trying to make you use it or when someone implies you should use it. If something like this happens you normally just ignore it or think the person is an alien, you don't go climbing walls and raping women.

but ime, there is a "real and valid reason to use" the POLR only when an expectation exists for its use, or at the very least, its valuing. With alphas and betas, there is this undercurrent of expectation of Ti-thought that is present which I become quite aware of not being able to meet to their standard of satisfaction. However, when i'm around gammas and deltas, I dont feel this expectation and as a result dont have this "reason to use" the POLR function.

[ashlesha]

real and valid reason to use it (that could dealt with differently like with the HA) + unawareness of more socionically fitted ways of dealing/unfamiliarity with situation + expectation?

this seemed like less stuff before i wrote it down

[Sumer1an]

PoLR attacks are less a matter of attacking the PoLR as they are targeting the creating function. Cold, callous, ruthless... terms like these will get under an ILI's skin quite quickly. Anti-Fe terms which reflect the prioritization of Te.

"Unprincipled" -- that's a term ILIs dislike.

I have to admit, I would hate to be called unprincipled. Also, socially alienating me in anyway would probably piss me off. To do that all you need is Fe.

[Simon Ssmall]

but ime, there is a "real and valid reason to use" the POLR only when an expectation exists for its use, or at the very least, its valuing. With alphas and betas, there is this undercurrent of expectation of Ti-thought that is present which I become quite aware of not being able to meet to their standard of satisfaction. However, when i'm around gammas and deltas, I dont feel this expectation and as a result don't have this "reason to use" the POLR function.

Yeh, it is valid only when the expectation for its use exists or its valuing. However that does not mean that forcing those expectations would change anything, it wouldn't. Only when the person accepts the expectation as valid enough can it hit like it really hurts.

Imagine an INTp who is in some party setting with bunch of strangers. Most of the people are having fun, laughing, cheering and god knows what, with emphasis on showing emotions and making others have fun too. In such setting I doubt INTp's PolR will be hit in a way that it really hurts. Most likely scenario he will think everyone around him is stupid and he should run away from that place or will drift away into his brain while looking at everyone unamused. I doubt he will think "Shit I wish I could act like them".

Imagine the same INTp who is visiting his friend who is really having lots of life changing troubles and all he needs right now is someone who would directly express care and would be able to uplift his mood. All that INTp manages is a witty sarcastic remark pointing out how life sucks. That does not help. INTp sees it and feels shitty because it is a really good friend and he is unable to help him in a way he needs.

[Suz]

Yeh, it is valid only when the expectation for its use exists or its valuing. However that does not mean that forcing those expectations would change anything, it wouldn't. Only when the person accepts the expectation as valid enough can it hit like it really hurts.

Imagine an INTp who is in some party setting with bunch of strangers. Most of the people are having fun, laughing, cheering and god knows what, with emphasis on showing emotions and making others have fun too. In such setting I doubt INTp's PolR will be hit in a way that it really hurts. Most likely scenario he will think everyone around him is stupid and he should run away from that place or will drift away into his brain while looking at everyone unamused. I doubt he will think "Shit I wish I could act like them".

Imagine the same INTp who is visiting his friend who is really having lots of life changing troubles and all he needs right now is someone who would directly express care and would be able to uplift his mood. All that INTp manages is a witty sarcastic remark pointing out how life sucks. That does not help. INTp sees it and feels shitty because it is a really good friend and he is unable to help him in a way he needs.

Yeah i definitely see what you're saying. In other words, someone can't really fabricate a hit on another person's POLR because the irritation is more something that comes from within, and the other effect is just that the people who value the POLR of that person's POLR wont like that person, not necessarily anything that amounts to a personal attack on that person.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Phenomenally adjusted:

Imagine an INTp who is in some party setting with bunch of strangers. Most of the people are having fun, laughing, cheering and god knows what, with emphasis on showing emotions and making others have fun too. In such setting I doubt INTp's PolR will be hit in a way that it really hurts. Most likely scenario he will think everyone around him is difficult to engage because their form-over-content conversation is insubstantial and he should either find somewhere more fun to be, or else he should slip into anthropologist mode and observe crowd dynamics, entertaining himself with people watching until someone worth engaging appears. Unless he's hurting for interpersonal closeness or he has a desire to positively impress a person at the party, I doubt he will think "Shit I wish I could act like them without feeling fake or having to feign interest".

Either way, Fi is usually a bigger deal to ILIs than Fe is.

Adjustment #2:

Imagine the same INTp who is visiting his friend who is really having lots of life changing troubles and all he needs right now is someone who would directly express care and would be able to uplift his mood. Instead of openly commiserating or even providing a hug, he realistically notes that life's difficulties befall us all but we usually manage to survive them with a bit of perseverance. That does not help. INTp sees it and feels shitty because it is a really good friend and he should have been more unguardedly sympathetic instead of trying to defuse his friend's tension (not to mention his own) with a wry joke.

And again this hits Fi more than Fe. It's the failure to say the right thing (Fe) that affected the ILI's Fi and made him feel crappy for that gaffe.

[Suz]

Phenomenally adjusted:



Either way, Fi is usually a bigger deal to ILIs than Fe is.

Adjustment #2:



And again this hits Fi more than Fe. It's the failure to say the right thing (Fe) that affected the ILI's Fi and made him feel crappy for that gaffe.

The interesting thing is that in that part you bolded from Ssmall's scenario, it would have been the right thing to say from my perspective. In other words, the ILI saying that hard times befall us all and we should persevere, I feel would be a comforting thing for me to hear when I'm moping about something.

[Simon Ssmall]

Either way, Fi is usually a bigger deal to ILIs than Fe is.

I never implied it isn't.

And again this hits Fi more than Fe. It's the failure to say the right thing (Fe) that affected the ILI's Fi and made him feel crappy for that gaffe.

True again. Yet the situation was one where he thought Fe was appropriate but he was unable to provide it. Whether it is due to Fi reasons and whether it hits his Fi at this point is irrelevant to the point I was making.

PolR "hits" are usualy ignored and only in cases when one thinks it is valid to use it but is unable to can it make any effect. Hence attacking someones PolR intentionally id say is fruitless in most cases.

[Korpsy Knievel]

True again. Yet the situation was one where he thought Fe was appropriate but he was unable to provide it. Whether it is due to Fi reasons and whether it hits his Fi at this point is irrelevant to the point I was making.

It's entirely relevant because it's a description of ILI thinking from an ILI perspective, not an analysis of externalities.

[The Ineffable]

POLR hit = irritation
HA hit = grave insult
creative hit = grave insult

Can you post the source, please? I'm intrigued, because afaik PoLR hit is the same thing with Creative hit. PoLR hit is for ILI, for instance, the exposal to information produced by Fe-Base. Then what would be the mechanism of "Creative hit", being exposed to Te-Base or ...?