Rant against EXTp - hopefully it pisses you off

[blackburry]

Hmm. There was this ILE guy who was into me, but I'd made it clear that I didn't want to pursue something serious with him--at some point he asked me out to lunch on a certain day, I agreed, he said b/c of his work schedule he'd text me on that day with the specific time, and then he didn't text me at all. No reasons, just sheer silence ever since then. I figured this was better for him so I just let it be, but if he ever does contact me again I would be like, "Yeah no dude. That's extremely not cool. For the record, I didn't say anything because I was being nice."

With my most recent ILE ex, after I broke up with him he was still like "let's hook up!" and kept talking to me. Then, at some point I mentioned I was hooking up with someone else. We had a stupid fight, and then he never contacted me again, even though he knew that I'm likely moving to a different region of the country and had previously wanted to spend time together before I moved. No explanation, just silence ever since then. Again, I figured it might be better this way, and I felt bad about the whole thing, so I also didn't try to contact him. But still!

Fi-PoLRs...

Although, I did also have an experience with an LII where he'd suggested we'd maybe get dinner the next day, I said cool, I'd set aside the entire evening for him and was waiting for his text, and nothing came. And then the day after that he was like "let's get dinner tonight!" as if nothing had happened. I decided to be lenient and think of that as a misunderstanding, but either way communication would have been appreciated.

#rationals
#people
#maybe I am just bad with men

This happened all the time when I was pseudo-seeing an ILE.

[lemontrees]

This happened all the time when I was pseudo-seeing an ILE.

Oh my god. How did that go?

And @sssonyyy it sounds like you've been having bad experiences with people in general...

[blackburry]

Oh my god. How did that go?

And @sssonyyy it sounds like you've been having bad experiences with people in general...

It went horribly. Basically what sssonyyy described. He'd make solid plans and then just... poof, they never happened or he'd text the next night or a week later and say, sorry...was busy then..how about tonight?

It's like he had a radar when I really wanted to hang out, he'd back out. But when I really wasn't into hanging and close to pulling what he had pulled...he'd suddenly be extremely interested and give me ultimatums if I said no thanks- it was basically just to ensure for himself that he had the upperhand. He did that with all of his ladies. He was extremely emotionally needy looking back at it objectively. He HAD to be talking to or texting someone to feel lively/entertained/likeable.. he was extremely reliant on praise from others. When I finally did tell him to fuck off, I said a few things I thought would play on his insecurities..and they did. He then texted me for two weeks asking me questions, asking to see me, asked if he was bad in bed (even though he was a total man slut)... in the end the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth at how incredibly selfish he was, and yet the women he racked in were pretty amazing (superficially...I didn't know them well...the ones I did, had their own issues, and also had fucking VALLEY GIRL VOICES, wtf's up with that...). Good riddance. I like follow through or at the very least someone who respects my time even just a bit enough to send simple message of--- hey, really can't tonight, i'm tired. call you tomorrow? I was way too lenient.

[xerx]

It went horribly. Basically what sssonyyy described. He'd make solid plans and then just... poof, they never happened or he'd text the next night or a week later and say, sorry...was busy then..how about tonight?

It's like he had a radar when I really wanted to hang out, he'd back out. But when I really wasn't into hanging and close to pulling what he had pulled...he'd suddenly be extremely interested and give me ultimatums if I said no thanks- it was basically just to ensure for himself that he had the upperhand. He did that with all of his ladies. He was extremely emotionally needy looking back at it objectively. He HAD to be talking to or texting someone to feel lively/entertained/likeable.. he was extremely reliant on praise from others. When I finally did tell him to fuck off, I said a few things I thought would play on his insecurities..and they did. He then texted me for two weeks asking me questions, asking to see me, asked if he was bad in bed (even though he was a total man slut)... in the end the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth at how incredibly selfish he was, and yet the women he racked in were pretty amazing (superficially...I didn't know them well...the ones I did, had their own issues, and also had fucking VALLEY GIRL VOICES, wtf's up with that...). Good riddance. I like follow through or at the very least someone who respects my time even just a bit enough to send simple message of--- hey, really can't tonight, i'm tired. call you tomorrow? I was way too lenient.

This is a complete guess, but he might have been afraid of a relationship (Fi-polr issues) and wanted to limit his interaction to the times you'd be least likely to seek that kind of closeness. It's possible that he felt unsure of himself or how you'd react to him. That may have limited him from advancing beyond the superficial stage where he was comfortable.

[jessica129]

It went horribly. Basically what sssonyyy described. He'd make solid plans and then just... poof, they never happened or he'd text the next night or a week later and say, sorry...was busy then..how about tonight?

It's like he had a radar when I really wanted to hang out, he'd back out. But when I really wasn't into hanging and close to pulling what he had pulled...he'd suddenly be extremely interested and give me ultimatums if I said no thanks- it was basically just to ensure for himself that he had the upperhand. He did that with all of his ladies. He was extremely emotionally needy looking back at it objectively. He HAD to be talking to or texting someone to feel lively/entertained/likeable.. he was extremely reliant on praise from others. When I finally did tell him to fuck off, I said a few things I thought would play on his insecurities..and they did. He then texted me for two weeks asking me questions, asking to see me, asked if he was bad in bed (even though he was a total man slut)... in the end the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth at how incredibly selfish he was, and yet the women he racked in were pretty amazing (superficially...I didn't know them well...the ones I did, had their own issues, and also had fucking VALLEY GIRL VOICES, wtf's up with that...). Good riddance. I like follow through or at the very least someone who respects my time even just a bit enough to send simple message of--- hey, really can't tonight, i'm tired. call you tomorrow? I was way too lenient.

oh gosh I had to deal with this same exact behavior with an ex. It's an emotional roller coaster and a complete mind fuck. They're only concerned about being wanted, they don't care AT ALL what they're doing to you in the mean time. Ugh, this kind of behavior is sickening to me. I wouldn't say it's only a certain type that does this... It basically comes down to them being immature narcissists.

[betterthan]

It went horribly. Basically what sssonyyy described. He'd make solid plans and then just... poof, they never happened or he'd text the next night or a week later and say, sorry...was busy then..how about tonight?

It's like he had a radar when I really wanted to hang out, he'd back out. But when I really wasn't into hanging and close to pulling what he had pulled...he'd suddenly be extremely interested and give me ultimatums if I said no thanks- it was basically just to ensure for himself that he had the upperhand. He did that with all of his ladies. He was extremely emotionally needy looking back at it objectively. He HAD to be talking to or texting someone to feel lively/entertained/likeable.. he was extremely reliant on praise from others. When I finally did tell him to fuck off, I said a few things I thought would play on his insecurities..and they did. He then texted me for two weeks asking me questions, asking to see me, asked if he was bad in bed (even though he was a total man slut)... in the end the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth at how incredibly selfish he was, and yet the women he racked in were pretty amazing (superficially...I didn't know them well...the ones I did, had their own issues, and also had fucking VALLEY GIRL VOICES, wtf's up with that...). Good riddance. I like follow through or at the very least someone who respects my time even just a bit enough to send simple message of--- hey, really can't tonight, i'm tired. call you tomorrow? I was way too lenient.

@lemontrees

Oh my god!! I didn't realize how common this was!! My SLE guy friend does this shit all the time. He always says we will do this and that, we will do it tonight...never shows up. And then he calls me when he's drunk or like texts me "miss you!" "hello!" "why you not replying?!?!?" "you can forget seeing me at...!" haha get a grip. Children. Sometimes it's like they need all this emotional reassurance or they hide away...why should we stick our necks all the way out for them !

[mu4]

It went horribly. Basically what sssonyyy described. He'd make solid plans and then just... poof, they never happened or he'd text the next night or a week later and say, sorry...was busy then..how about tonight?

It's like he had a radar when I really wanted to hang out, he'd back out. But when I really wasn't into hanging and close to pulling what he had pulled...he'd suddenly be extremely interested and give me ultimatums if I said no thanks- it was basically just to ensure for himself that he had the upperhand. He did that with all of his ladies. He was extremely emotionally needy looking back at it objectively. He HAD to be talking to or texting someone to feel lively/entertained/likeable.. he was extremely reliant on praise from others. When I finally did tell him to fuck off, I said a few things I thought would play on his insecurities..and they did. He then texted me for two weeks asking me questions, asking to see me, asked if he was bad in bed (even though he was a total man slut)... in the end the whole thing just left me with a bad taste in my mouth at how incredibly selfish he was, and yet the women he racked in were pretty amazing (superficially...I didn't know them well...the ones I did, had their own issues, and also had fucking VALLEY GIRL VOICES, wtf's up with that...). Good riddance. I like follow through or at the very least someone who respects my time even just a bit enough to send simple message of--- hey, really can't tonight, i'm tired. call you tomorrow? I was way too lenient.

TBQH, this guy could be SEE too, they're generally better than SLE's at this. Keeping 5-10 girls on the leash while screwing all of them. The SEE I knew was screwing two girls who were best friends without them knowing about it. Sometimes at the same party in different rooms, man had game.

[Wynch]

TBQH, this guy could be SEE too, they're generally better than SLE's at this. Keeping 5-10 girls on the leash while screwing all of them. The SEE I knew was screwing two girls who were best friends without them knowing about it. Sometimes at the same party in different rooms, man had game.

Yeah, my SEE friend does that too. Not to say that all SEEs do that, but when they're in the player phase of life, SEEs are definitely good at that crap.

We should also probably note that while XLEs are probably more likely than most types to do things that would devalue a relationship (intentionally or unintentionally), it's probably a mistake to attribute assholish interpersonal behaviour to being entirely type-related. Some of these guys sound like they are just dicks all around.

That said, I've had another related thought back to sony's original post. Hkkmr has mentioned trust, which I tend to agree with. But on top of that, it's clear that he doesn't actually value your relationship. If he did, he would spend time manipulating/convincing you into believing that there was a reason he wasn't there. Manipulating sounds bad, but honestly, that's what we (XLEs) do if we care about our relationships. Manipulating takes effort and involves risk. It's our way of working around interpersonal deficits in the way that makes the most sense to us. If we value a relationship, we'll do what we can to give the person what they want to see/hear/experience because it's the kind of reciprocity that makes sense to us. The same way we need observable benefits to doing things with people, we try to give that back to people so they will value us in return. In the sense of explaining why he's not there, even if it meant lying, if it would keep the relationship positive, he would do it. Because it's important. If it's not really important, it's just so much easier to just let the relationship die on its own without even bothering to make amends. The XLE cost-benefit analysis always needs to come back positive. Sometimes letting people think you're a dick is a better balanced cost than the alternative.

[bolong]

That said, I've had another related thought back to sony's original post. Hkkmr has mentioned trust, which I tend to agree with. But on top of that, it's clear that he doesn't actually value your relationship. If he did, he would spend time manipulating/convincing you into believing that there was a reason he wasn't there.

I don't agree with this at all. I mean my post WAS meant to piss off EXTp (it's in the title) and obviously EXTp will come up with any amount of reasoning when they feel like proving someone wrong.

What I think it is, is that he was really good at manipulating for years, but now I've caught up on being able to read him and pre-empt him, and he doesn't like this new scenario. I also went to India and broke off with all my fucked up EP junkie college friends (a lot of whom I've bitched about in this thread), and the dynamic has changed quite a bit, we all just kind of want to be friends again.

That said, on a pure personality theory level, doesn't EXTp feel deep down that they don't deserve to be loved, or something? I read this, I'm not making it up. So maybe, yea, he's fulfilling that.

[mu4]

I don't agree with this at all. I mean my post WAS meant to piss off EXTp (it's in the title) and obviously EXTp will come up with any amount of reasoning when they feel like proving someone wrong.

What I think it is, is that he was really good at manipulating for years, but now I've caught up on being able to read him and pre-empt him, and he doesn't like this new scenario. I also went to India and broke off with all my fucked up EP junkie college friends (a lot of whom I've bitched about in this thread), and the dynamic has changed quite a bit, we all just kind of want to be friends again.

I don't think I'm really pissed, because this is how I treat people a lot of the time. The fact that you can read him and preempt him means you're fighting them, and they're going to resist. Which in this case ended up with you raging at him. Job accomplished for him. You're just another conquest for him, you shouldn't play into that game at all, especially since he's got a steady.

That said, on a pure personality theory level, doesn't EXTp feel deep down that they don't deserve to be loved, or something? I read this, I'm not making it up. So maybe, yea, he's fulfilling that.

I think this is true in a lot of ways. I'm don't really keep people on the leash, I tend to break up with people in a way they feel happy about breaking up with me. I have no problem being the villain. It's also easier for me if they want nothing to do with me in the future. I don't think this is true for SLE's.
I also don't think you're that important for him, just a conquest. I think at the core of this issue with this guy is that you actually do like him more than he likes you and he's just exploiting that to feel good about himself.

[Wynch]

I don't agree with this at all. I mean my post WAS meant to piss off EXTp (it's in the title) and obviously EXTp will come up with any amount of reasoning when they feel like proving someone wrong.

What I think it is, is that he was really good at manipulating for years, but now I've caught up on being able to read him and pre-empt him, and he doesn't like this new scenario. I also went to India and broke off with all my fucked up EP junkie college friends (a lot of whom I've bitched about in this thread), and the dynamic has changed quite a bit, we all just kind of want to be friends again.

That said, on a pure personality theory level, doesn't EXTp feel deep down that they don't deserve to be loved, or something? I read this, I'm not making it up. So maybe, yea, he's fulfilling that.

I'm not pissed off at all, lol. Just trying to help make sense of the behaviour for you, so don't worry about pissing me off.

The bolded part is kind of where I was trying to get at. I obviously don't know him so I can't know his motivations. Maybe he is unhappy with the power shift in your relationship. It's clear the nature of your relationship has changed, and he's realized it's not what he wanted. He's not going to get what he wants out of your relationship anymore, and so it's no longer worth the effort. His being a little bitch about losing power is where the dickishness comes in, which I would say is not really type related. Or if it is, it's maybe specifically SLE related, but I'm skeptical.

As for XLEs not feeling we deserve to be loved, I'm curious who said that. Seems like a misinterpretation or poor translation of -seeking behaviour. XLEs like attention and validation, which is why we like to share our thoughts and ideas with anyone who'll listen. That's probably where some of the arrogance comes into play as well. But I definitely wouldn't say that XLEs have inherent feelings of unworthiness for love. Maybe an unhealthy or depressive XLE might feel that way? I just can't see an XLE self-sabotaging on the basis of self-worth issues unless they're seriously depressed.

[betterthan]

Yeah, my SEE friend does that too. Not to say that all SEEs do that, but when they're in the player phase of life, SEEs are definitely good at that crap.

We should also probably note that while XLEs are probably more likely than most types to do things that would devalue a relationship (intentionally or unintentionally), it's probably a mistake to attribute assholish interpersonal behaviour to being entirely type-related. Some of these guys sound like they are just dicks all around.

That said, I've had another related thought back to sony's original post. Hkkmr has mentioned trust, which I tend to agree with. But on top of that, it's clear that he doesn't actually value your relationship. If he did, he would spend time manipulating/convincing you into believing that there was a reason he wasn't there. Manipulating sounds bad, but honestly, that's what we (XLEs) do if we care about our relationships. Manipulating takes effort and involves risk. It's our way of working around interpersonal deficits in the way that makes the most sense to us. If we value a relationship, we'll do what we can to give the person what they want to see/hear/experience because it's the kind of reciprocity that makes sense to us. The same way we need observable benefits to doing things with people, we try to give that back to people so they will value us in return. In the sense of explaining why he's not there, even if it meant lying, if it would keep the relationship positive, he would do it. Because it's important. If it's not really important, it's just so much easier to just let the relationship die on its own without even bothering to make amends. The XLE cost-benefit analysis always needs to come back positive. Sometimes letting people think you're a dick is a better balanced cost than the alternative.

Actually I think him not showing up could be a power play, if there was ever any romantic attraction. Rather than him not caring, he wants to make it seem like she cares more than he does and that he doesn't get an f, playing games with feelings is pretty typical when an sle likes someone...

[mu4]

Actually I think him not showing up could be a power play, if there was ever any romantic attraction. Rather than him not caring, he wants to make it seem like she cares more than he does and that he doesn't get an f, playing games with feelings is pretty typical when an sle likes someone...

I'm pretty sure it's a power play, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't like her that much.

[bolong]

TBQH, this guy could be SEE too, they're generally better than SLE's at this. Keeping 5-10 girls on the leash while screwing all of them. The SEE I knew was screwing two girls who were best friends without them knowing about it. Sometimes at the same party in different rooms, man had game.

Nah, from her description it doesn't seem like he was that smooth at all.. SEE would probably make time to see them, charm them, and then leave. Blackburry is describing XLE for sure.

[mu4]

Nah, from her description it doesn't seem like he was that smooth at all.. SEE would probably make time to see them, charm them, and then leave. Blackburry is describing XLE for sure.

Half of being smooth is making yourself look like you're incapable of something really bad. The SEE I knew was super flaky, but he would concoct all sort of lies to keep people on the leash.

The biggest man-slut I knew was a EII, maybe ESI, no girl ever saw it coming. He'll invite them out, take them to dinner, play a little guitar, screw them... but that's all it ever was. He was such a nice boy, can't imagine he would do that...

This was while having a fiance... Guy wasn't flaky at all, saw his mom every Saturday, kept house clean, made all his appointments...

[bolong]

Half of being smooth is making yourself look like you're incapable of something really bad. The SEE I knew was super flaky, but he would concoct all sort of lies to keep people on the leash.

The biggest man-slut I knew was a EII, maybe ESI, no girl ever saw it coming. He'll invite them out, take them to dinner, play a little guitar, screw them... but that's all it ever was. He was such a nice boy, can't imagine he would do that...

This was while having a fiance... Guy wasn't flaky at all, saw his mom every Saturday, kept house clean, made all his appointments...

I guess it depends on the ILE. I've known good manipulators and bad manipulators.. neither were smooth, but the good one did make it seem like she had a lot of moral standards, and people were convinced.

[bolong]

And @sssonyyy it sounds like you've been having bad experiences with people in general...

Yea maybe it's me