What's wrong with society today?

[InvisibleJim]

I assumed most people lived in the west over here.

I live in the West well, at least West enough.

My viewpoint on the Canadian and American AND European societal and economic degradation is that with 100-150 years worth of glorious surplus and expansion many social and legal systems were invented and enforced which were inefficient and often contrary to individuals viewpoints of what is right or wrong. This has lead to many perverse incentives and bloated service economies coupled with social degredation.

You will either fall into one of two camps. You will either want to support the failing social system because you like the idea of communality (which is noble enough) or you'll want it torn down and reformed into something fit for purpose (which is also noble, believe it or not). If you are communual you will view everything as becoming more insular and angry, if you are in the other camp you'll be exascerbated as the system inertia weighs you down.

In short 'the wheels have fallen off the cart'; because there is no such thing as society, merely individual actors with their own ethics. I think you are broadly in Camp A. Welcome to your Randian Objectivist nightmare.

[Amoeba]

If you are communual you will view everything as becoming more insular and angry, if you are in the other camp you'll be exascerbated as the system inertia weighs you down.

In short 'the wheels have fallen off the cart'; because there is no such thing as society, merely individual actors with their own ethics. I think you are broadly in Camp A. Welcome to your Randian Objectivist nightmare.

How is it even possible to be in camp B. The system is controlled by the people with all the money, you would have to be some kind of sociopath or criminal which is the minority. I find that I reject the system for the most part but it's impossible to reject it all the time you will always have to conform to it in order to survive. The anger and frustration comes from the system constantly shoving things down my throat that are either useless or untrue. It pushes you towards someone you don't want to be it makes you pay for things you don't want to pay. The ever lasting "rejecting" is frustrating and deteriorating.

[InvisibleJim]

How is it even possible to be in the other camp? The system is controlled by the people with all the money, you would have to be some kind of sociopath which is the minority.

Only last week my single mother cousin said quite openly 'I can't believe those unemployed fuckers live across the road in a council house, whilst I have to live with my parents yet work 40 hours a week'.

Anecdotally untrue.

Perhaps you're a sociopath just waiting to happen.

I think you just don't understand the Pareto principle.

[Amoeba]

Only last week my single mother cousin said quite openly 'I can't believe those unemployed fuckers live across the road in a council house, whilst I have to live with my parents yet work 40 hours a week'.

Anecdotally untrue.

Perhaps you're a sociopath just waiting to happen.

I think you just don't understand the Pareto principle.

The problem is the people at the bottom don't view themselves at a worthy member of society or a respected individual they degrade themselves to the societal norms of the upper class. Lower class individuals spend the little that they make on higher class goods. Why would a lower class citizen buy a BMW when a honda does the job just as good for cheaper cost?

[InvisibleJim]

The problem is the people at the bottom don't view themselves at a worthy member of society or a respected individual they degrade themselves to the societal norms of the upper class. Lower class individuals spend the little that they make on higher class goods. Why would a lower class citizen buy a BMW when a honda does the job just as good for cheaper cost?

That sounds like 'keeping up with the joneses'. I don't have much truck with such poor decision making and social compliance.

[Esaman]

I live in the West well, at least West enough.

My viewpoint on the Canadian and American AND European societal and economic degradation is that with 100-150 years worth of glorious surplus and expansion many social and legal systems were invented and enforced which were inefficient and often contrary to individuals viewpoints of what is right or wrong. This has lead to many perverse incentives and bloated service economies coupled with social degredation.

You will either fall into one of two camps. You will either want to support the failing social system because you like the idea of communality (which is noble enough) or you'll want it torn down and reformed into something fit for purpose (which is also noble, believe it or not). If you are communual you will view everything as becoming more insular and angry, if you are in the other camp you'll be exascerbated as the system inertia weighs you down.

In short 'the wheels have fallen off the cart'; because there is no such thing as society, merely individual actors with their own ethics. I think you are broadly in Camp A. Welcome to your Randian Objectivist nightmare.

Randian Objectivist nightmare is what we(to different degrees) are living in now. What is coming Randian Objectivist's nightmare.
The natural and the right response to current economic, environmental and societal problems (possibly disasters in future) is societal organisation to regulate relevant areas in accordance to societal interests. The freedom of opportunistic ass rape through financial sector will be removed.
The Te dream of anarchic opportunistic wild west. "Wild west" was a frontier - something very much temporary. Whats more even frontiers of technology and colonization of space will have to happen in a stifled fashion to preserve the integrity of humanity. Te people will have to suck up their disappointment.

[InvisibleJim]

Te people will have to suck up their disappointment.

I guess since the politics of austerity are dominant with markets re-aligning to fundamentals that things ain't living up to your theory.