second degree murder
manslaughter
not guilty
I don't know enough to decide
I have not heard of this case
I'm most definitely not a compassionate citizen. I'm not particularly good at honoring his name. I'm just telling you things you have already said.
This is how I started posting in this thread. I didn't have race in it, I didn't have anything like that in it.Originally Posted by Me
This is what you said, think of what I said as a rebuttal.Originally Posted by Your Derail
Profiling: VI and/or otherwise type the guy, then treat him according to socionics' relationship predictions.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I am not accusing Fox of being heartless. I know she's not heartless. I hope nobody thinks that, I think she's a good person.
But that doesn't mean she doesn't display signs of unconscious racism like virtually everyone that lives. I'm just point those out.
Also you didn't just just say symbol, you said pretty much exactly what you accuse me of saying, except in a more negative fashion.
It's not the situation that is funny or being made fun of, dear. It's you. The next step is to make a facebook graphic for people to share so they can share it around and click 'like' if they agree that Zimmerman is the Devil. Internet Slacktivism at work. I understand that it makes you feel good, but if you really cared about this issue, then you wouldn't be wasting your time arguing on this forum, where maybe 15 people will read what you say.
That's why I donate $$$$$$$$ to stuff I care about. I did that way back in 2012, and I might donate again. I talk about it on this forum because it's my forum, kind of like home.
I don't think Zimmerman is a devil, I haven't even called him a racist. He's just a coward, and incompetent person who made a mistake.
I don't need to demonize Zimmerman for what he did nor do I need to ignore the fact that Trayvon is a pot smoking kid who was getting into some trouble.
This forum gets better every time, I don't even have to have a drink.
I said he's a symbol to a lot of people, which means he's a symbol in the objective sense. Kinda of like how Jesus is a symbol to a lot of people but he's not a symbol for me.
I don't really go for the symbol thing, but I'll throw my support behind things I find worthy. Punishing Zimmerman in some way, I think I'll stand behind that.
I have never said that Travyon Martin is a personal symbol for me, he's not, he's a symbol for a lot of people however. I don't know how anyone can deny that. I treat him as a "symbol" for other people, which I think even you have recognized.
He's not a personal symbol for me, I'm not even sure I have any personal symbols, he's just a dead kid who I think was killed wrongly.
EDIT: I actually do have a symbol, Bruce Lee ^_^
I know he wasn’t a cop. I was mocking a couple peoples’ posts in the thread seemingly comparing him to a cop. I haven’t read much about this because I have little interest in highly publicized cases.
Two men fighting and one of them is an unarmed teenager who ends up dead. Nope. I don’t like it.
Zimmerman was a dumb pussy. Jury took pity is my guess.
Will watch video later.
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
And you don't think Trayvon was a dumb pussy? If you continually attack people by laying wait and jumping out of the bushes, and beat them up, you are taking a risk with your life. The person could be armed, and kill you. It's common sense not to attack people, and fight them. There's nothing honorable about this.
I've had police officers approach me on several occasions and ask me what I was up to, because I looked like I was engaging in suspicious activity. I was friendly and explained what I was doing. That's their job. I've had police officers point at me with guns and tell me to put my hands up, and I did what I was told. Why? Because I have the common sense not to resist or fight people who may be armed, unless it is in self-defense, in which case I will do what it takes to save my own life. My life is more important than that.
The guy feared for his life, because he couldn't get Trayvon off him, so he shot him. I would do the same thing. My life is more important than someone calling me a "pussy" because I can't and don't want to fight gangster-style. I assume that Zimmerman was untrained and generally unequipped with tools to defend himself otherwise, since he was not a police officer.
Trayvon was a stranger to Zimmerman, not a classmate. For all Zimmerman knew, he could be trying to murder him. This was not a high-school, schoolyard fight. Sounds more like an East Oakland projects situation than a small-suburb teenage ruckus.
As far as his height and weight:
The initial police report from the night of the shooting lists Martin's height as 6'0" (1.83 m) and weight as 160 lb (73 kg). Zimmerman estimated Martin's height at 5'11" to 6'2" on the night of the shooting. The morning after the shooting, an autopsy found that Martin's body was 5'11" (1.80 m) long and weighed 158 lb (72 kg).[14][15] Other values for Martin's height of 6'2" (1.88 m) and 6'3" (1.91 m), and weight of no more than 150 lb (68 kg), were reported as being given by Martin's family.
And he was a football player.
Last edited by Finale; 07-16-2013 at 11:14 PM.
My verdict was not guilty.
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
I'm not sure I would call a 28 year old who is taking classes in criminal justice and has little-to-no other experience in security-based jobs, except for volunteering to be a community watch organizer, "experienced".
Apparently not. He was basically at his home (about 70 yards outside), and was waiting for Zimmerman to appear, because Trayvon had realized he was being watched. According to phone conversations Martin was having preceding the event, he had indicated he was going to attack Zimmerman. Trayvon would've gone inside his home if he would've been afraid.... yet he chose not to. Zimmerman wanted the police to arrive before Trayvon got away, and that's why he got out of the car, and then he was attacked.
I'm not saying Zimmerman was competent to do the job he had volunteered to do. I have heard many, many stories of rent-a-cops even, who have failed to provide any security at all. You get what you pay for. It's the same argument that moderators of forums should not be held to professional standards because they are merely volunteers. It seems to hold true in the case of neighborhood watch security guards as well lol (little-to-no pay for their services, and not well-trained).
I didn't start reading about the trial until after the verdict, so I don't know all of the facts. There does seem to be quite a bit of propaganda coming from all sides. I wanted to mentioned the police cctv video that was posted here earlier. Zimmerman was treated by paramedics on the scene, so any blood, dirt or anything of that nature wouldn't be visible on such shitty quality video. I think everyone is a little bit too emotionally involved in this and should take a step back and look at the facts.
So, we don't know all the facts, which we don't. I think that's an impossibility, because of perception, even if you were at the scene of the crime. So, when there is an occurrence, such as this one that is being bled by and sensationalized by the media and there is so much propaganda and mis-representation, the only true way to take an actual overall stance is to watch the trial yourself. I did that with the Jodi Arias trial, so I was able to see how untrue a lot of the information was concerning it, reported by the media. I don't have time to watch every single trial from start to finish, in order to make sure the representations and "facts" are correctly reported, but I assume a lot of them are not. That doesn't mean I can't form an opinion based on conclusions from "facts" I trust a little more than others, while knowing it's still imperfect, which is what I've tried to do.
More experience with life than a teenager. You seem to have some emotional involvement in this case that I clearly lack. I’ve already stated more than once that I’m unfamiliar with the details, though I know you weren’t there and the incident wasn’t videotaped.
I’ve been in fights too and I think shooting unarmed teenagers is wrong. The idea you can know what either person was thinking/motivations at the time is silly. I only have Zimmerman’s word and what he told the police? Zimmerman didn’t even have stitches and I don’t know where you’re getting this information you’re writing about.
You can show me some facts from the case if you want. I’m not going to entertain hearsay.
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
No. I'm just interested in jury trials, psychology, people, and motivations. That's why I watch bits and pieces of jury trials, and sometimes entire trials.
Sure, unless it's in self-defense. How was Zimmerman supposed to know he was unarmed at the time, or didn't have a knife?
We also have witnesses to the event, 911 calls, and much other testimony to consider. It can be pieced together what happened by professionals and is done so fairly-well when I watch trials taking place. Go research it for yourself then.... I don't expect people to believe every word I say, but I do expect them to at least try to be informed before they consider an opinion.
Are you serious or trolling? hafhsdzhfdhgft I've stated my opinion and you've yet to counter or change it. All in this thread and my opinion that it's not okay to shoot unarmed teenagers still stands in my book. All I've read so far is "well, Zimmerman said this happened and if it was me I'd have shot him too"
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
Zimmerman's mother is peruvian and his father is white, apparently he has some African in there too. The media tends to racialize any story in which a white-on-nonwhite crime may have occurred. I don't recall any specific instances in which they've done the same for nonwhite-on-white crimes. Race shouldn't even come up unless there's evidence that it played a role. As far as I've read, it didn't.
Last edited by lagerdemon; 07-17-2013 at 03:48 AM.
1) Zimmerman didn't know Martin's age. He was a stranger.
2) Zimmerman was being attacked and beaten up, and he didn't know whether the perpetrator was armed or not. In certain crime-ridden areas, it's common for people to be packing and to have gun-shot scars, and knife wounds. It's literally kill-or-be-killed.
3) Zimmerman called for help for almost a minute before taking action to use a weapon in self-defense, which is documented in 911 calls.
4) There were witnesses to the event.
5) He was acting in self-defense. He was not the aggressor.
There is a good amount of testimony to back up these beliefs.
So if a 17 year-old stranger attacks you, and they are stronger than you, and you fear for your life, you wouldn't shoot them to save your own life, because you think it is "wrong"? Taking a few classes does not constitute being able to beat up a much-more experienced street-fighter. If I take a few classes, maybe I can take on Mike Tyson.
Sooo he was not being stabbed or shot at?
I was witness to a car accident once and this crazy lady called 911 and started screaming all this bullshit into the phone while being very threatening to the other party. Good thing I was there to tell the cops she was full of shit (eye witness)
I would have called the police and stayed in my car if I saw some huge threat. What does this have to do with Mike Tyson? He would probably have knocked Zimmerman out before being shot.
You wanna live in the old west or something. You are NOT Wyatt Earp, sir.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...warning-shots/
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
My point being that they lived in a crime-ridden area, the guy could've been armed or had a knife, and could've pulled it out at any moment. He refused to back off when Zimmerman was yelling for help and unable to defend himself, while being relentlessly attacked. Therefore, he got shot. Easy as that.
If I go out into the city streets here, and attack someone for approaching me or possibly watching/following me, I would say there's a good chance I would get the same treatment.
My point with the Mike Tyson statement is that just because I am even a trained police officer at best, that doesn't mean I can best an experienced street-fighter who may be better-trained. Zimmerman was apparently the underdog when it came to street-fighting.
Threats are not physical attacks.
If you were in a similar situation, in which someone was bashing your head into the concrete and punching you and you couldn't get him off, what would you do? Would you have let him beat you and hoped the cops get there before you're beaten to death or would you shoot him? Have you ever been in a fight?
Assuming this is what really happened? Assuming I follow people and get out of my car?
I have been in fights, yes. I've almost been knocked unconscious, but I didn't have a gun and I doubt I would have shot the girl if I had. I think people really need to look at the big picture here and in my opinion it's not okay to use deadly force like a GUN when I'm in a fist fight. If you're afraid for your life then I advise to let the police deal with it. Was he being beaten to death? Not from what I've seen.
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
That was his job. He was neighborhood watch patrol.
Like I said, we're not in a suburban schoolyard fight. We're in the projects, where people are commonly armed. So you think he should've been beaten to death to prove he could've been? The police were alerted, but they couldn't get there in time. Martin was also alerted and asked to stop repeatedly. It comes down to accountability, and who threw the first blow? Who was getting beaten up and couldn't defend themselves?
Zimmerman is accountable for having bad judgment. Martin is accountable for assaulting someone and continuing to, with bad judgment.
Lemme tell ya' what, I'll take you out to East Oakland and let you off on a street corner. When you understand the type of mentality it seems we are dealing with here, maybe you will change your mind.
I doubt I'd get out of the car and I definitely wouldn't follow anyone around with a firearm.
Zimmerman called police the evening of the shooting to report Martin as a suspicious person, police have said. A dispatcher told Zimmerman to stand down and an officer was on the way. Zimmerman confronted the youth anyway and Martin was shot in the chest with Zimmerman's 9 mm pistol, police said.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...e-officer?lite
Sure.
Man grows used to everything, the scoundrel!
-Raskolnikov
NBC news is like listening to fake cock-sucking.
It's true that Zimmerman called the police preceding the event. Zimmerman however, did not confront Martin. He simply got out of his car to see where he went, from what I understand. Martin was the aggressor, and could've entered his building and been free and clear. If you wanna blame the victim, go ahead. The next time you dress up to go out, think about what you're wearing.
Multiple sources. I generally listen to a lot of different medias and gather the most information I can, if I'm interested. In this case, I've only been semi-interested. I watched pieces of the trial. I read some here and there. But ABC and NBC have to be two of the worst I've noticed in recent times......
As much as FOX is downplayed, I find that they have people with actual opinions, and not just sensationalized bullshit. I appreciate people who can give me reasons. I don't want to hear a bunch of National Enquirer feedback. Same with any other news source that can do the same.
I grew up in a really nasty neighborhood, and a fight is a fight, people fight and then you walk away. Knives and guns, these come out for $$$ and turf. Fighting is just a way of life and I had fights as a kid with other kids and watched plenty of street fights, and it didn't always end up with someone dead(infact NEVER). There is lethal violence in these communities but a lot of it comes down to money or turf, this is where the serious fighting occurs, and of course collateral damage. It's weird finale would think that violence in the project is some sort of kill or be killed winner take all affair when a lot of the time it's just a fistfight. Yea these guys are packing and got knives, but it doesn't mean they use it every time there's a fight. I'm more worried about a middle class loser with a gun and a chip on his shoulder then any street fight in a ghetto. A street fight in the ghetto is often a means of conflict resolution and a show of dominance, not a life or death situation. I mean if every fight in the ghetto was a life or death situation, there wouldn't be a ton of fight, but the fact is, most fights don't end up with anyone dead or in the hospital, it's just a fight and thus there's a lot of fights.
The idea that people in the ghetto are just murdering thug who will kill you for any reason at all is really a myth, I live beside the projects right now and a lot of people just want to be left alone, by the drug dealers, the gangsters, the cops. Trayvon was a violent kid, did a little pot, got into some fights most likely, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die.
The thing is the only substantial testimony on this whole thing is from Zimmerman, who isn't exactly the most trustworthy of people. If I believed Zimmerman's testimony, of course I can't convict him, but I can't trust him.
His wife was arrested for perjury.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/12/ju...zimmerman-wife
This guy was working with his wife to hide stuff.
Also this wasn't in the projects, although Sanford has a high crime rate, this was a gated community.
http://www.easystreetrealty-orlando....kes-townhouses
http://www.hlntv.com/interactive/201...ap-interactive
Does this look like the projects to you?