If you had been on the jury (Zimmerman case)

[silke]

And this is what bothers me about what you did in that post there. You're contriving a narrative to paint Martin as ruthless and guilty as possible... and you're doing so out of a void of information.

This is not much different from people who have been trying to paint Zimmerman as some kind of crazed vigilante or macho superman who has forced Martin into a deadly confrontation while depicting Martin as a poor, unlucky kid who was forced into a fight, who couldn't even turn his back, had no choice responding as he did, etc. The transcript from the conversation with the dispatcher shows that Martin did get away from Zimmerman and that Zimmerman has lost sight of him, and it is unknown what exactly made Martin re-approach and end up within such close proximity of Zimmerman that he could get into a physical fight with him:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: OK, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: OK.
...later ...
Dispatcher: OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah…..(unintelligible)
Dispatcher: What, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950 -- Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: OK, do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine.

Some time later Martin ends up at a very close proximity of Zimmerman and enters into a physical confrontation. What exactly inspired Martin to turn around and re-approach Zimmerman will forever remain unknown, but as much as people have been trying to depict Zimmerman forcing this whole incident, I'm just not seeing it: how could Zimmerman force a fight on someone of whom he has lost sight?

If he DID know Zimmerman had a gun, he may have been afraid to turn his back on this man who had pursued him after he had tried running away and tried to disarm or incapacitate him by knocking him out. It is a bizarre situation to find oneself in.

Martin did get away from Zimmerman such that Zimmerman told the dispatcher that he has no idea "where the kid is", so Martin couldn't have been fighting merely to incapacitate Zimmerman and make him break off his pursuit. Martin has gotten away and he had a choice to stay away and continue on his trip to his father's girlfriend's place, but instead he chose to re-approach Zimmerman and enter into a fight with him, which then led to his own death. What motivated Martin to do so is unclear, but all of this is not consistent with the picture that some people have been trying to present, that Zimmerman has forced this whole encounter and Martin was merely reacting in self-defense.

[Animal]

This is not much different from people who have been trying to paint Zimmerman as some kind of crazed vigilante or macho superman who has forced Martin into a deadly confrontation while depicting Martin as a poor, unlucky kid who was forced into a fight, who couldn't even turn his back, had no choice responding as he did, etc. The transcript from the conversation with the dispatcher shows that Martin did get away from Zimmerman and that Zimmerman has lost sight of him, and it is unknown what exactly made Martin re-approach and end up within such close proximity of Zimmerman that he could get into a physical fight with him:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: OK, we don’t need you to do that.
Zimmerman: OK.
...later ...
Dispatcher: OK, do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, yeah…..(unintelligible)
Dispatcher: What, what’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It's a home. It's 1950 -- Oh, crap. I don't want to give it all out. I don't know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: OK, do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?
Zimmerman: Yeah, that’s fine.

Some time later Martin ends up at a very close proximity of Zimmerman and enters into a physical confrontation. What exactly inspired Martin to turn around and re-approach Zimmerman will forever remain unknown, but as much as people have been trying to depict Zimmerman forcing this whole incident, I'm just not seeing it: how could Zimmerman force a fight on someone of whom he has lost sight?


Martin did get away from Zimmerman such that Zimmerman told the dispatcher that he has no idea "where the kid is", so Martin couldn't have been fighting merely to incapacitate Zimmerman and make him break off his pursuit. Martin has gotten away and he had a choice to stay away and continue on his trip to his father's girlfriend's place, but instead he chose to re-approach Zimmerman and enter into a fight with him, which then led to his own death. What motivated Martin to do so is unclear, but all of this is not consistent with the picture that some people have been trying to present, that Zimmerman has forced this whole encounter and Martin was merely reacting in self-defense.

I think that's a fair point. And if that is how things actually played out then Martin was guilty of assault and Zimmerman was justified in using force for self-defense (which, I think, ultimately was the case anyway). But do we know for sure that Martin re-approached Zimmerman and that they didn't simply encounter one another again coincidentally? There was a map of the neighborhood I saw a few weeks ago online that showed their respective trajectories that night with quotes from the 911 and girlfriend calls to mark the point at which they lost each other. I can't find it anymore, but basically, they both needed to head East when Zimmerman lost Martin. Zimmerman would have had to continue East, then make a right turn South to arrive at the location of the shooting. Zimmerman could have caught up with Martin from behind, or Martin could have turned south, then back west to confront Zimmerman at the shooting location. But, in either case, Zimmerman was apparently moving further east.

EDIT: Here are two similar graphics to the one I saw. Not as detailed, but it should give you an indication of what I mean. The first maps the possible trajectories they could have taken. The second follows Zimmerman's account. In both cases, Zimmerman continues in the direction Martin was headed. In the second scenario, Martin does turn right to accost Zimmerman at the location of the shooting.:







Zimmerman's brother has stated that Martin asked why he was following him. Reports from the scene describe a verbal argument erupting first, followed by a physical altercation, and then the gunshot.