If you had been on the jury (Zimmerman case)

[mu4]

Yes... It's also a nice time to move the general public away from sympathy with black people... this is obamas last term. What better way than to publicize an absurd case of 'racism' and rile up crowds of black protestors? That's just my own speculation. Whatever the medias intentions, the end result has been a marginalizing of the black masses.

Why should the general public sympathize less with black people?

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...her_races.html

Given the racial empathy gap in America, isn't it time for people to sympathize more.

I don't think this is making people sympathize less with black people, since sympathy for black is still low. Blacks are heavily marginalized already, but people are mobilizing but not with rioting ala Rodney King but with political action within the system. A lot of individuals have always feared minorities entering the system and voting which is why the poll tax and now the voter ID laws get so much legal legwork to enact. But that can be overcome with education, elbow grease and a lot of legwork, not every battle will be won, but there's still a lot of people fighting for equality out there.

You want more apathy, more ignoring, more marginalizing, that's what you want. But people will have something to say about that. I'm much more active today then I've ever been, maybe I'm the only one, but it doesn't look like it.

[Kill4Me]

The media cannot be trusted.

Then that's a reflection on the masses.

[Aquagraph]

Many pacifists do not equal all pacifists that your previous statement holds. Simply speaking, when you do not abide nor hold the values/views that are dear to you and go against them, you're not any of things you label yourself with.

Then it means that I stop being a pacifist when it's too inconvenient. Or that I never was a pacifist. I am inclined to look for peaceful solutions, like most men, but I think there is a time for force. Sic vis pacem, para bellum.

[Aquagraph]

I would fight back until either they beats me to death or I beat them unconscious. What are you trying to ask really? Why would someone attack me with the intention to get killed.

Whoops, that question was supposed to have "where you do have a real gun which the assaulter saw"

Also it seems when you got to the US, you suddenly became a establishment stooge. What happened to your sense of rebellion.

Food poisoning.

[rat1]

Why should the general public sympathize less with black people?

I don't think this is making people sympathize less with black people, since sympathy for black is still low. Blacks are heavily marginalized already, but people are mobilizing but not with rioting ala Rodney King but with political action within the system.

There's been a noticable increase of smiling, responsible black people in commercials / the media which started about 7 years or so ago. It began prior to president Obama running for office. That was to create positive sentiment for the black masses and give an image of black people as responsible up and comers; reverse the image of black people as thugs. That strengthened Obamas election campaign and his presidency..

Three years ago they started running these pro-mormon commercials, prior to mitt romneys campaign. Watch:

The pro mormon commercials all went away after the election...

The ways the media influences popular opinion are always very subtle. But they do this sort of thing. It's predictable... Marginalizing the black community strengthens the next presidency. We will probably see more of this type of marginalizing up until the election.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...her_races.html

Given the racial empathy gap in America, isn't it time for people to sympathize more.

Well I'm not saying people should stop sympathizing with black people. I'm simply noticing the effect this case has had. The average american sees this case as crying racism and the black community has marginalized itself over this issue.

A lot of individuals have always feared minorities entering the system and voting which is why the poll tax and now the voter ID laws get so much legal legwork to enact. But that can be overcome with education, elbow grease and a lot of legwork, not every battle will be won, but there's still a lot of people fighting for equality out there.

Not related to what I'm saying.. you just misinterpreted me.

You want more apathy, more ignoring, more marginalizing, that's what you want. But people will have something to say about that. I'm much more active today then I've ever been, maybe I'm the only one, but it doesn't look like it.

Nice assumptions, but wrong.

[Absurd]

Then it means that I stop being a pacifist when it's too inconvenient. Or that I never was a pacifist.

Yeah, you got it.

I am inclined to look for peaceful solutions, like most men, but I think there is a time for force. Sic vis pacem, para bellum.

Most men don't, trust me. I've been outdoors how silly it may sound and some men/women/people aren't aren't really what they claim to be - bellum omnium contra omnes.

Let's see if your understanding(?) and Ashton's (if he is ever going to post in this thread again), can refute if. I'm really looking forward to that...

[Cyrano]

Generally I am a bit disturbed by the fact that a grown adult can stalk a teenager with a gun without consequences. He put himself in this situation AND he has a history of violence. Trayvon Martin was walking while talking on the phone - what is suspicious about that?

Kim is on the mark. We have a dead kid with Skittles, and a creep with a gun.

[Creepy-male]

We should just print a shirt for Aquagraph that has a picture of a Plato with his hand in the air and the proclamation:

"All men by their nature desire violence!"

That would sum up half his pseudo-philosophical posts on the nature of violence. Really if I wanted to explore the issue of internal conflict concerning violence, I'd watch Fight Club or something similar. At least Fight Club had two persona's battling.

The real issue is the gray line that is set up on what is manslaughter and what is self-defense. People want to make it black and white so they can feel comfortable and safe in their minds. Also people keep blaming the media. IMO the media is perfect for this, its actually not the medias fault, publicity is great for this topic and raises a pertinent social issue. I think the problem is stupidity of people resorting to their comfort zones and rationalizing their own points of view, seeing it as debate and entertainment like watching political debates and ignoring it as an opportunity to discover something deeper about society and life. This is generally the problem with the role of media in modern society, no one learns anything from the exposure of information and its all about the conflict and entertainment because they live pussy humdrum lives and seek out stimulation from their TV set. They pine so much for violence and drama because they live shitty little insignificant lives and have little capacity for envisioning the future.

Also I don't think everyone has their price, I think that's true with certain things, especially base things. But no one can be entirely bought over, if they were they would have no will, and thus their would be nothing to buy, their value as a human would be worthless. So the things that people let others buy them out on, already originate from seeds in their own being, whether that's insecurity, self-doubt, or maybe a suppressed desire, or as an alterior motive to another ends.

If a pacifist resorts to violence then that is not definitive proof that there is no such thing as pacifism that is self-discovery on the person's part about who they really are or are not. While you argue everyone has a part of them that desires violence, I'd argue there is also a part that desires peace and people are in constant internal struggle with these two aspects and sometimes one wins over the other, and sometimes others can influence each aspect. The issue of self-defense is one that socially echoes this internal struggle within every person.