True.
There are three types of taxes
a) Services which are required: i.e. to pay for the legal system, to pay for taxes to exist.
b) Fines/charges against activities which have a negative impact on others (externalities); e.g. I drink alcohol and the govt has to fix the extra problems this causes, or I pollute so the government has to restore the environment to near natural conditions.
c) Wealth redistribution
Type C is just blatant theft.
deflation is also very good for the export Since the USA is autark and we don't live in a globalized world it might not be a matter.
What is more important cheaper vacations in mexico or a countries economy?
And when you have as many debts as the USA believe me the last thing you want is deflation
But you're really right about the fact that the inflation is payed by the people just look at Japan
It's not about really paying it back
But when you have to much deflation you loose in the game of bonds because you interests for bonds will raise(they will raise because the prognose of the public economy will be bad). When the interest is to high compared to your gdp you're really screwed.
Services for which there is no rational argument why free markets are incapable of providing.
If the government limited itself to the enforcement of property rights, this would be the most moral use of tax revenue. Unfortunately, no government in history has ever followed this practice.
As opposed to the subtle theft in your first two examples?
You know the situation in the USA better than i do. Your prediction seems possible are you sure about Ni-POLR? lol
In general i don't think that wealth distribution is theft everyone profits from it. A country is more attractive for entreprises when the education level is high and for that you need public spending on good education. I don't say we need an equal society but when you look at "successfull" countries in europe 5% of the richest own as much as the other 95%. But there are constitutional rights for social healthcare and a garanteed money support to life a acceptable life for people who are longterm without a job. When the poorest can life in dignity everyone profits from a safer society.
At the moment the USA is one of the countries in the western world where you have the lowest chance to make it from the bottom to the top. One of your amendments garantuees the right to strive for luck but when your parents are poor and you go to shitty schools even when your intelligence is above average it's unlikely you can make real use of this amendment
But i agree that it is in end a value decission
Last edited by DaftPunk; 05-27-2013 at 02:48 PM.
Legality is an oddity because you can't have a law based on the ability to pay for protection and consider it just. The poor have as much right to protect their property as the rich.
Well externalities are where for example I dump my shit all over your garden and then don't have any intention to pick it up. So they should charge me for the damage caused to your property.
Lul.
CPig, don't get arrested again.
Last edited by Absurd; 05-27-2013 at 03:06 PM.
The laws enacted by a monopolized tribunal system rarely consider what is fair or just, and what's more, seek to limit and regulate rights of ownership as opposed to protecting them. Legislators chiefly concern themselves with politicking, rather than the defense of property rights. The law is upheld by coercion (i.e., force or the threat thereof), and obeyed because we have no other choice; we must submit to the law as read by a despot and his committee of tyrants, or else.
What you've just described is precisely the situation as we see it today, not what I inductively infer to be the case were law and order made into a private and competitive industry.
I know what externalities are, they are a cornerstone justification of economic interventionism. They are also utterly meaningless, in my view, to the proper study of economics. You've made no argument here, only demonstrated a lack of imagination by implying a resolution would be impossible, were it not for the government imposing some tax or subsidy to "cover" an invisible and ambiguously calculated external cost.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Fucking old white people. How dare they try to keep the money they have earned. Bastards. They should be forced to give it all to Armenia, land of the free and socionics.
The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures. They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it's the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent. When you have civilized men fighting savages, you support the civilized men, no matter who they are. Israel is a mixed economy inclined toward socialism. But when it comes to the power of the mind—the development of industry in that wasted desert continent—versus savages who don't want to use their minds, then if one cares about the future of civilization, don't wait for the government to do something. Give whatever you can. This is the first time I've contributed to a public cause: helping Israel in an emergency - Ayn Rand.
Click me constructive more ILIs.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Not necessarily - he can be frequenting racialist forums besides this one and get his ideas therefrom.
Keep in mind that around 1 third of our budget is borrowed from either the Federal Reserve or elsewhere, which means that each year we increase our debt and also increase inflation by introducing new bills into the economy.
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
Identity theft for instance...
What's wrong with spending money on defense (although I'm not in favor of big retirement packages etc)? Some of you people live in a figgin bubble...don't you realize that there are nations around the world who have cruel leaders who destroy the lives of human beings in genocides, etc. You might say we do the same indirectly, but we don't have as lax morals as some other places. You live in better economic circumstances and have choices that many people don't have right now.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I don't mind supporting people who are in hard times. Taxes, good.
Oh, I see you're dealing with far-right already, Ashton. Cool.
Although better post a vid showing Herr Hoppe inviting Volkmar Weiss giving speeches about racial inferiority. A bonus treat would be posting what Rothbard had to say about the Objectivists that Jim is fan of.
Last edited by Absurd; 05-27-2013 at 10:41 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQlZweKNBjo
Blue is the new white etc
There are a few ideas out there (protection agencies, an extension of the insurance industry, kritarchy, etc), but their discussion wouldn't be germane to the topic of taxation being equatable to extortion. Besides, it's difficult to accurately predict what a market on justice would truly resemble since it would arise spontaneously, and be determined by trial-and-error in the market process.
In short, I have no idea what the alternative might look like. The details are irrelevant anyway, the market has demonstrated it's efficiency in nearly every capacity where laissez-faire has been permitted to flourish. Through inductive reasoning, one can conclude that the same general principles of economics would apply to any trade where scarcity is present. It may not be a perfect solution, but I'm convinced it would be the most utilitarian of options, and mitigate the most harmful miscarriages of justice.
Thank you!
Last edited by Capitalist Pig; 05-28-2013 at 07:17 AM. Reason: stupid typos
Taxation is not theft, much like capitalist use of labor to produce profit which is not distributed to the workers is not theft. What do business owners do, take all of the worker's production in exchange for a fixed amount that is likely less than actual production. It's really no different, all organizations take some of the surplus and/or the production of individuals within it's sphere of influence.
Thinking in term of theft and exploitation is moral rhetoric concerning something that happens naturally without any intervention of state/business/organization. It is simply a product of power and control which is exerted by organizations on individuals within that organization's sphere of influence. There are certainly exploitative organizations but even non-exploitative organizations need to take a portion of the production of the individuals within that organization as administration cost or as a product to sell.
You want to avoid this "theft"? I'm pretty sure it's thermodynamically and physically impossible, and the only mechanism in which we are protected from this theft is thru some sort of economic obfuscation about the underlying physical events occurring.
You want a society/system that doesn't take a portion of the production of its constituents? Fantasy land... Nature is taxing me right now, it's eating my ice cream so I can type this up. I'm going to have to eat again soon. Humans developed these organizing systems largely to protect, prevent and obfuscate the effects of physical problems which don't go away magically once you get rid of these organizing system.
The no tax movement isn't interested in freedom, but rather the dissolving of the mechanism of physical protection for select members of society while maintaining their own. Ultimately what will happen for many of these individuals is that they will instead dissolve many of these physical protection mechanisms for themselves and leave themselves unprotected against the natural forces which have troubled man and mankind since the beginning of civilization. Then it all turns to shit when a tornado, hurricane, earthquake levels it all down.
I don't think anyone likes taxes but it's not avoidable in some ways, either economically or physically. What society needs is for more progressive taxation vs regressive taxation, however most of the advocates for less taxes seek actually more regressive taxes.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/el...eys-47-comment
The last US election's 47% moment is basically the gist of almost all anti-tax rhetoric. Most of the suggested policy would in fact raise the tax rate for this 47% via some sort of flat regressive mechanic.
Hkkmr should volunteer to pay more tax. He's all for tax.
Actually rape is a natural occurring phenomena of the physical universe, but an extremely undesired one for human civilizations.
http://animalsbehavingbadly.blogspot...r-huggers.html Raping otters for example...
And making the analogy of various economic forces and many of the problems of society is like entropy is definitely a way to look at this problem and often a constructive one.
But stop trying to put words in my mouth or comparing taxation to rape, that's just a stupid straw-man you're pulling out to make this topic retarded. Taxation is nothing like rape, and trying to put these words in my mouth, by comparing taxation to something as heinous as rape is stupid and shows just how degenerate your moral thinking is. In fact, the equivilance of taxation to heinous crimes against humanity is exactly what I propose is not the case.
This is the problem of the anti-tax rhetoric, individuals try to compare taxation to rape, murder, theft, etc. When oftentimes, taxation is nothing like rape, murder, theft but more akin to the paying of a bill for services provided. Unfortunately, ofttimes the generations before us create debts which have to eventually paid by someone of a future generation. And force become the means for debt collection. People are often simply placed in a world which they had very little hand in creating, but the solution is harder than simple abolition.
However, there are times when taxation is onerous and undesired, especially when it's regressive taxation which keep large segments of the population in servitude. But this doesn't seem to be the concern of the anti-tax groups, their concerns seem to want to create even more onerous conditions for the already disenfranchised.
Anyways, given that I pay 40+% taxes with most of it taxable, and people much much richer than me pay far less with most of it protected. I know how I want to the system to be more equal and that's with people making far more than me paying more and the individuals with equal/less paying less or the same. I'm not a freeloader nor am I disenfranchised, I'm ok with paying for some benefits, but I want to see other people pay their share as well.
Stop comparing taxation to rape/murder/slavery/theft.
You know what's slavery, working for less then 1 dollar a day.
Getting paid 20k a year and paying some taxes isn't slavery.
GTFO with that bullshit.
You know what's slavery, really bad wages, no social safety, working for pennies because the alternative is death by starvation.
This kind of hyperbolic 1st world pretension to minor problems is appalling.
Actually, it is. Considering that you don't have any other option but to pay, or go to jail. It's goes as far as taxing you when you're practically living elsewhere. That is not slavery?