Getting out of the Ne PoLR rut

[Zenoa]

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[Ozz]

The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.

[Beautiful sky]

The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.

Oh come on!

this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage; stop being so suspicious.

[Zenoa]

wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?

It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.

this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage.

I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.

[Beautiful sky]

It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.


I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.

My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."

[Zenoa]

My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."

Thanks, this is good advice and I know for a fact that it works - provided you ensure that you do not make the same mistake ever, in their various permutations.

[Zenoa]

My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty.

How does this play out in the long run? What must the LSI do in order to stay under the SLE's radar? Assuming that the boss is SLE and the subordinate LSI.

Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."

I've been thinking about this, and apologizing in a laughing tone won't work- it's hard enough to get a laugh out of me on a typical day. Apologizing to the SLE has to be done very carefully too - no chinks in the armor (minor, one-off ones are still acceptable) or else.

I'm so fucking sorry.

As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.

[Ozz]

Oh come on!

this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage; stop being so suspicious.

Hi Maritsa. I have no idea whatever it was the intention of the SLE to set the OP to fail and I did not want to make that assertion at all. It's just not a good practice to give someone an impossible task. It could be very damaging to someone with an internal locus of control.

[Nowisthetime]

Generally the way to deal with superego is to plan ahead. Don't improvise if you can avoid it. Plan ahead and consider possible scenarios and how you would deal with it. Don't wait until you actually are in that situation. If you succeed in this you can go on using strong functions and superego will not bother you too much. Superego can and should be used but it is not for creative work or improvising on the fly.

[squark]

My thoughts - take with grain of salt, and may not apply to you. Ne polr isn't about any lack of resourcefulness - Se creative can actually lead to a great deal of resourcefulness and one article I read said Se-creatives can create money out of thin air etc. as an exaggeration on this attribute. I think instead it has more to do with getting locked-in to a decision and developing tunnel-vision. As in, I will see an option - the option seems like it will solve all the problems, so I decide to take it and every other option disappears.

As an example (sorry has to remain vague,) recently I was faced with a decision to make, and wasn't sure which way to approach it. A good friend told me to absolutely not take a certain option, and gave me other suggestions. I agreed, and was determined to follow this advice UNTIL an opportunity arose that I didn't think I should miss, and taking that opportunity led to a series of events where I felt like I had no choice BUT the option I had agreed not to take. It wasn't actually my only choice, but it seemed the easiest and most practical way out of the situation in the moment, and I locked into it. To me it was the only choice. And I took it. The desire to make a decision and finish something can override everything else at times.

BTW, in your example - how were you able to create a plan without knowing the problem could be solved? Plan = steps to take to reach goal, yes? If you had no achievable goal - what did that consist of? Was your plan just to try a bunch of stuff and see if any of it got you any closer? In the future, to avoid this, as soon as you see that something is dependent on factors outside of your control, list those factors and bring them to the attention of whoever has assigned you the task. Perhaps those things are not outside of their control - or perhaps they are, but you need to bring them up and show exactly what obstacles are stopping you. Get other heads in on the matter if possible for a second look as well, to see if you might just be missing something. But if you don't see a way to a solution, beating your head against everything in a vain attempt to chance upon a solution doesn't usually work very well.

[FDG]

It just seems you were too invested in the work. Unless you are working entirely for yourself, it's always best to be a bit detached and don't give 100%, lest being exploited.

[Beautiful sky]

wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?

[Phantimo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points

[Beautiful sky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points

Interesting video

[Zenoa]

Interesting video

Are you familiar with ISTps? What are the chances of my experience above, the result of Ne suggestive rather than Ne PoLR?

[Beautiful sky]

Are you familiar with ISTps? What are the chances of my experience above, being a result of Ne suggestive rather than Ne PoLR?

pretty high

[Zenoa]

pretty high

Why?

[Phthalate]

I have major issues with the Ne PoLR, probably worsened by being E6.

I'm so fucking sorry.

[Words]

Who's winning?

[Zenoa]

Who's winning?

The boss will always win

[nanashi]

yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!

[Words]

Why you so stubborn, M?

[Beautiful sky]

Why you so stubborn, M?

I don't know. Maybe because I'm hopeful.

[Zenoa]

LOL Beta^Se.

It's none of my business, but I seriously think that being more realistic might be better for your physical, mental and emotional health...

But enough. I don't provide free consulting services, and clients can do as they wish after the money's in my pocket.

/end

[Beautiful sky]

It's none of my business, but I seriously think that being more realistic might be better for your physical, mental and emotional health...

But enough. I don't provide free consulting services, and clients can do as they wish after the money's in my pocket.

/end

LOL Thanks

[Suz]

I have major issues with the Ne PoLR, probably worsened by being E6. My boss, a SLE-Se believes that the best way to learn is to throw you into entirely new situations, and you figure out how to get yourself out of it - this is contrary to my own approach!

The SLE insisted that I handled a particular job. It came at a particularly bad time, when I was concerned about several pending deadlines and my ability to achieve them within the time span allotted.

Nevertheless, I geared up for the challenge; laid out a relatively detailed plan and proceeded to attack the problem in every conceivable manner; leaving no stone unturned – no matter how remote the possibility of the bait being taken.

Eventually, it became clear to me that a few of these goals were dependent on factors beyond my control and were impossible for me to achieve. As my attempts began to fail (I tried everything), I became increasingly anxious and amped up my efforts. It came to a point where the frustration became unbearable and led to a drastic decline in my efforts to achieve some of the goals that I knew to be achievable. I felt trapped in a do or die situation; forced to continuously hit into the empty air with goals I knew could not be accomplished, and grew increasingly frustrated at every turn, eventually leading to a blow-up.

My SLE boss consequently decided that he had tortured me enough (by his admission. it turned out that it was part of his arbitrary “training program” to have me cultivate resourcefulness), the experience left me angry and drained. It had a detrimental effect on my existing work - I found it difficult to give a damn about completing what I had left in hand, despite forcing myself to as it was my duty.

I am trying to figure out how much of these ties in to being Ne PoLR and how much to being E6, as well as ideas on how I could prevent this from ever happening in the future (by minimizing the impact of Ne PoLR, etc).

Thoughts welcome.

ETA: Boss is more likely to be SLE-Se than SLE-Ti.

sounds like you are claiming to have received an Ne-POLR hit from your boss, whom you are typing SLE.

One of the two is wrong. Either it wasn't an Ne-POLR hit, or your boss isn't SLE. SLEs dont value Ne and wouldn't be hitting an Ne-POLR with Ne. Maybe your boss is ILE? That said, i'm not sure that "training style" is a manifestation of Ne. I guess it could be (in the sense of giving you freedom to be as creative as you want to be), in a non-Te-driven way. I like to have a balance of Te-based guidance, though, with autonomy/flexibility given to me.

[Words]

I think lots of people end up using socionics as a metaphor to describe things they suck at or just got wrong, to then try to improve them.

I mean, if socionics was really true, I don't think I can explain or sometimes see what functions are like as a base, maybe that would be even harder to do and observe as a PoLR.

[InvisibleJim]

Never in my life did I think I would visit the 16types and read a thread about Maritsa and LSEs.

[Zenoa]

Never in my life did I think I would visit the 16types and read a thread about Maritsa and LSEs.

Life is strange like that

[Zenoa]

.

[Jimbean]

Don't stress over it and take it with a gain of salt. Focus only what you have control of, and don't blow up under any circumstances.

[Words]

I would say Ne PoLR would involve directly speaking to your boss about this rather than leaving things undecided and with ambiguity.

Then thinking Sh*t maybe shouldn't have done that.

Or just leaving it till it's too late to do it.

Maybe get some advice from someone you work with who has Ni that you can reasonably confide in, see what their advice is.

[Beautiful sky]

Interestingly, an LSE-Si once revealed to me that he doesn't know how love feels like (and asked me to describe it to him. ack!) -

Speaking of that; my LSE friend, who has cheated on his wife several times, said one day "I feel like you can love more than one person." I asked if he ever fell in love with all these girls he's cheated with and he said "probably not." But he still says "I still love my wife." I asked if he was with her out of love or something else, he stopped for a minute and reflected, then he said, it was because of familiarity, he was with her because she was already apart of this circle he created and it was better to have something old and comfortable and familiar than something new.

So much for knowing what LOVE really is, huh? Right. They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love. People come in OBJECTS OF AFFECTION to an LSE. Sadly, there are so many objects out there and Affections are not static for them they are transient or changing.

Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.

[nanashi]

They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love.

That's unkind, rude, and libelous

[Beautiful sky]

That's unkind, rude, and libelous

Not when they've told that to me in my face it isn't.

[Zenoa]

Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.

yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!

Actually, there is truth to Maritsa's observations. While I am aware of the need to show more sensitivity to the LSE sociokind, her observation on this matter is consistent with my own (I am NOT generalising btw).

p.s. She was merely expressing her disappointment regarding her past experiences with LSEs, not so much insulting the entire race. Relax...

[Absurd]

I've had my share of the nastiest, meanest LSE God ever made;

You bet on the right horses so far.

[nanashi]

I understand she was grieving and afraid, but she was projecting her untrue fear that all LSEs want an inhuman, non-complex dog instead of a living, breathing EII for a mate as the truth, and it is simply not true. There is no need for me to calm down. I am calm. Yes, she was generalizing, and when I see someone I care about not only experiencing an irrational fear that any and EVERY dual of hers will be immature but also proposing it publicly, I'm going to call the crap, crap. That's what is great about having me as a friend.

Actually, there is truth to Maritsa's observations. While I am aware of the need to show more sensitivity to the LSE sociokind, her observation on this matter is consistent with my own (I am NOT generalising btw).

p.s. She was merely expressing her disappointment regarding her past experiences with LSEs, not so much insulting the entire race. Relax...

[Zenoa]

I understand she was grieving and afraid, but she was projecting her untrue fear that all LSEs want an inhuman, non-complex dog instead of a living, breathing EII for a mate as the truth, and it is simply not true. There is no need for me to calm down. I am calm. Yes, she was generalizing, and when I see someone I care about not only experiencing an irrational fear that any and EVERY dual of hers will be immature but also proposing it publicly, I'm going to call the crap, crap. That's what is great about having me as a friend.

I see... Okay.

[Beautiful sky]

I understand she was grieving and afraid, but she was projecting her untrue fear that all LSEs want an inhuman, non-complex dog instead of a living, breathing EII for a mate as the truth, and it is simply not true. There is no need for me to calm down. I am calm. Yes, she was generalizing, and when I see someone I care about not only experiencing an irrational fear that any and EVERY dual of hers will be immature but also proposing it publicly, I'm going to call the crap, crap. That's what is great about having me as a friend.

As a general trend, thus far, it's true. Trends are dependent on how many ass holes you observe given all the ass holes you observe.

Even the crazy LSE who come here; their vision of the perfect EII is the woman who can't do anything for herself, who is helpless and needs them so much to do things for her. I say it ALL THE TIME THAT AN EII JUST CAN'T ARRANGE THE ACTIVITIES IN THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY TO CHOOSE FROM THAT THEY GET SCATTERED IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS, MENTALLY; THAT'S ALL, ARRANGE THE DAMEN ACTIVITIES AND AN AN EII WILL FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THESE THINGS DONE.

Just because you love me and want to see me happy, it's not going to make a sane and normal LSE love me. Get that. You have to understand that.

Let me tell you the latest and greatest LSE thing that I've been told thus far "I want an open relationship, where you come, fuck me, and leave." I was like *um, do you know who you're asking this from? Just in case you missed it I'm a conservative, traditional person.* I have a very obvious "I go to church and help out the homeless in my community" persona that I wear when I date and I get this? How does this happen? HOW? I feel like every single LSE I meet is dishonest about their intentions, horny, and hung over some vision that isn't real.


What are they looking for?

a. Their own personal idea of physical attraction that has nothing to do with reality. The closer to the way they look like an SEE the better, big soft baby like faces and eyes.
b. Their own contrived standards of compatibility that is somewhat unreasonable to me and my type
c. That I'm probably wealthy
d. someone to just have sex with them as a convenient prostitute

You can mix and match the above in any number of ways.

I almost feel like Feeler types are much more sensitive and flexible in their choice of mates. Take you, I'll name all the ESFp and every one of them that's single, strait and available would want to date you and have a try at a normal relationship with you.