Te/Fi vs Fe/Ti and personal boundaries

[mikemex]

Yeah.

At one time I had a discussion with my ILE sister for this reason. She reproached my ESE brother for eating something she left in the fridge. She said that my brother should ask for permission before eating it. Ok, let's do it your way I said. So I started calling my sister every hour (even at midnight) and asked if things such as lemons, carrots, eggs, belonged to her so I could eat them.

Needless to say, after about 30 calls she finally got it and has kept her mouth shut on the issue since.

[mu4]

Yeah.

At one time I had a discussion with my ILE sister for this reason. She reproached my ESE brother for eating something she left in the fridge. She said that my brother should ask for permission before eating it. Ok, let's do it your way I said. So I started calling my sister every hour (even at midnight) and asked if things such as lemons, carrots, eggs, belonged to her so I could eat them.

Needless to say, after about 30 calls she finally got it and has kept her mouth shut on the issue since.

She's going to poison one of those things... ^_~

[FDG]

lol, wow. when you live with people theres an understanding of public property but there's also basic human respect and understanding that people like having their own space and stuff.

Yeah but not so much with your parents, or at the very least it's really hard to enforce. If it's with flatmates, then sure.

[willekeurig]

Yeah.

At one time I had a discussion with my ILE sister for this reason. She reproached my ESE brother for eating something she left in the fridge. She said that my brother should ask for permission before eating it. Ok, let's do it your way I said. So I started calling my sister every hour (even at midnight) and asked if things such as lemons, carrots, eggs, belonged to her so I could eat them.

Needless to say, after about 30 calls she finally got it and has kept her mouth shut on the issue since.

You really do sound like an ass.

If the thing your brother had eaten was something that doesn't belong to the normal supply of the fridge I can understand your sister's reaction. Like, if there was normally just vegetables and dairy products inside but then one day a huge chocolate cake appeared I think it'd be common sense to check that it's alright to eat it before doing so. I find it hard to imagine your sister would've gotten mad for your brother over eating an egg if there are always eggs in the fridge and it's never been an issue before. So yeah, assuming this was not the case your reaction is pretty much an epitome of the straw man-fallacy. It sounds to me that you're much more interested in egoistically showing everyone how your way is the right way than finding a solution everyone can feel happy about.

[silke]

These may both well be true, though there are still lots of other people in my circles who don't care much about boundaries, and who almost all happen to be Fe/Ti.

She is, actually. And it happens to be that the person that most disturbs me with this sort of behaviour outside of my family is also so/sx (and ti/fe, for that matter). Interesting. I didn't even think of the stackings, but maybe there's something to it. I can think of a few people that are fi/te & so/sx, but I don't find them intrusive at all. Maybe it's the combination of Fe and so/sx itself that annoys me, or I'm just better at communicating my expectations to Fi/Te folks so with them the problem gets fixed.

Yeah, that's what I thought would be (at least a part of) the problem. Any suggestions on how to get better at it?

Probably nothing much you can do besides just moving out of the house and living on your own . You can try to communicate in a Fe-objective kind of way and say it's discourteous and bothersome in general, act visibly frustrated and angry every time this happens, leave notes on your stuff in refrigerator so it doesn't get taken, etc.

I have similar kind of issues with an IEE and a SLE so/sx that I know. The SLE not only doesn't observe the boundaries, he destroys them in his wake e.g. whenever he passes through a house he leaves every single door open, including the front door, though he has been asked multiple times not to do this (after which he wonders why it's so cold lol). The IEE just drops sexually-flavored TMI in conversations kind of like your mom does. So I'd say at least some of the things you've described sound more like sp/sp-last conflicts.

[Absurd]

But most important thing of all is that you buy stuff to share it with your people and leave it in the fridge for them to take. It's not normal that you put stuff in the fridge only when it's four yourself. This parents understand well.

Learn to live in a group or live alone in a cave.

If by taking things without other party consent you consider "living in a group", my sincerest apologies to any slag you happen to live with. This way one can take your life and rest on "living in a group" demanded it without any repercussions whatsoever.

I have no problems with sharing stuff myself, neither with checking whether other person actually wants to share.

As for that fridge comment, heh, I take it you put your stuff in the shitter and shit on it, thus ensuring some people won't claim it. So it all boils down to a mutual agreement between two and more parties involved, and when it is breached, neither of them have the right to cooperate. Prisoner's Dilemma revisited.

[willekeurig]

...except with parents.

Honestly, I have never had this problem, except with parents. In most cases, they will always see you as their kid and never listen to you. I could bet that even if I were to become the most recognized expert in the world in subject X, my mother and father would still think my advice is nonsensical. What can you do! Makes life more varied...

Ouch.
Mine put a hell of a lot trust in my judgement and thinking. They're both masters of economic sciences with years of work experience & my dad has a company of his own, but they treat my economic opinions as equal to theirs. We can easily have conversations about politics, economics, philosophy, science, technology, you name it, that last for hours. It's only with practical everyday issues like knocking before entering a room that we crash instantly.

[lemontrees]

[INDENT]It is apparently impossible for her to knock properly before she enters someone else's room. I've tried to talk about it and explain that I like privacy in general and don't want people rushing into my room especially when I'm changing clothes, concentrating on something etc. After the complaints she started making a quick knocking sound at the same time she opens the door, which of course makes no difference whatsoever when I don't have the chance to react before she's already come in. Further attempts at discussion haven't worked since she just starts to yell like mad. Also, once she's in it's sometimes hard to get her to leave. If I'm e.g having a conversation with someone, watching a movie or whatever she often tries to join in. -.-'

Oh my god. My SEE mom always did shit like this, but worse. I'd wake up to her going through my wallet, or she'd try to have a conversation with me while I was in the bath. If I tried to lock a door to get privacy, she'd threaten me with physical violence and bang repeatedly on the door until I opened it, and would say that she had a key and if I didn't open up right away I'd get beaten even harder than I would be otherwise. She was an extremely unhealthy E2, though.

That being said, I do think it's possible that Fe/Ti types don't care about joining in random conversations as much, or borrowing things if they believed they'd be allowed anyway. I myself do these things some times without realizing! I learned the hard way that some Delta NF's I knew didn't value this kind of behavior--I instantly felt their silent criticism, and was so ashamed, lol.

[willekeurig]

Oh my god. My SEE mom always did shit like this, but worse. I'd wake up to her going through my wallet, or she'd try to have a conversation with me while I was in the bath. If I tried to lock a door to get privacy, she'd threaten me with physical violence and bang repeatedly on the door until I opened it, and would say that she had a key and if I didn't open up right away I'd get beaten even harder than I would be otherwise. She was an extremely unhealthy E2, though.

Wow, sorry to hear. That's terrible. :/

That being said, I do think it's possible that Fe/Ti types don't care about joining in random conversations as much, or borrowing things if they believed they'd be allowed anyway. I myself do these things some times without realizing! I learned the hard way that some Delta NF's I knew didn't value this kind of behavior--I instantly felt their silent criticism, and was so ashamed, lol.

Yay, at least one post that supports my observations. The size of the ntr camp really took me by surprise, I expected most people to have somewhat similar experiences. I've found that with many of my Fe-valuing friends we've come closer to each other's ideals with time - they're being more careful and I've loosened up a little.

[mu4]

Probably nothing much you can do besides just moving out of the house and living on your own . You can try to communicate in a Fe-objective kind of way and say it's discourteous and bothersome in general, act visibly frustrated and angry every time this happens, leave notes on your stuff in refrigerator so it doesn't get taken, etc.

I have similar kind of issues with an IEE and a SLE so/sx that I know. The SLE not only doesn't observe the boundaries, he destroys them in his wake e.g. whenever he passes through a house he leaves every single door open, including the front door, though he has been asked multiple times not to do this (after which he wonders why it's so cold lol). The IEE just drops sexually-flavored TMI in conversations kind of like your mom does. So I'd say at least some of the things you've described sound more like sp/sp-last conflicts.

...every single door open, including the front door.....

I do this too, just because I'm not paying attention...

[ashlesha]

ive had a few friends whose clothes were the same size as mine and we would always just take eachothers stuff and had shared wardrobes but it was just sort of "understood." i was going to say that the concept of borrowing things without asking was ridiculous until i remembered that. but i mean if somebody was just like "by the way here's this book i took from your house last weekend" i think my response would be to laugh at how brazen that was. i would only be angry if it really was something important to me. i don't care that much about "stuff."

i've always knocked on my son's door, even when he was small. i don't let him say "no" unless he's getting dressed or has some reason, though. its just jarring to be sitting there in your room and have your door slammed open so its just a courtesy. and i do feel that he should have the concept of having his own space that belongs to him, even if he doesn't have total control over it.

[Absurd]

and i do feel that he should have the concept of having his own space that belongs to him, even if he doesn't have total control over it.

That's exactly it.

[Ryan]

Se

and please stop using quadras until you learn the functions properly

[Absurd]

Se

and please stop using quadras until you learn the functions properly

[Beautiful sky]

Neither are you. You have already proven your advice are terrific. Remember how you changed my typing, from gamma to alpha - even though you had CONFIRMED it and all, several times even. What a catastrophe if would've been if I had followed your relationship advice back then; I would've ended up with my superego or conflictor. I'm afraid I'd probably have killed myself by now, or worse, ended up an alcoholic single mom with no future. That's the kind of humanist you really are, Mariza. Think about it. Just think.

LOL how about a new method of FINAL ISFp LOL

anyway fix your problems

[Beautiful sky]

Being rational types both Fe/Ti bases are very receptive to information and change; that means, if you're not happy about something, just tell your mom about it and if you've typed her correctly than she will make a new "rule" about it and change for your preference.

*problem solved* or *bam*

[golden]

Didn't read all the replies, but my mom does this same shit to this day when I visit her and I am like a kajillion years old. I type her ILI.

On a secondary note, the people I perceive as having boundary problems are all over the map socionically. I do see a pattern of me having boundary clashes with Enneagram types 2 and 3. I.e., sometimes it seems like they don't perceive where my boundaries lie, and with some 2s, if I point out a personal boundary, they take it as a grave insult. So *shrug*.

[Jenna]

now that i sort of have time, i want to kind of expand on my comments earlier...

your mom is not enfj.

http://socionics.us/theory/be.shtml
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_ethics


everything you were describing is what an Fe base would NOT do. they know what to say and how to say it to get the result they want. your mom is really socially awkward, she has no idea how she is coming across to others like an EIE would be. Fe bases, especially the enneagram 3s, are very image focused. they fear rejection, and therefore are VERY careful to act in a way that others will respond positively to. she seems way more likely to be Fe PoLR than anything. that whole post = complaining about an Fe PoLR. the alcohol thing strongly suggested weak Ni and Fe, strong Si.


as an example of this extremely awkward behavior, a couple nights ago peter (discojoe on here, don't know if you know him....?) and i were talking when his SLI dad came in and asked if either of us had a pair of binoculars. we both said no. then he said "oh, well it looks like the neighbors are walking around their house naked." Then peter told him that the normal thing to do would be to just turn a blind eye, not to go looking for a pair of binoculars to spy on them. about 20 minutes later he came back, saying he found the binoculars and "upon further inspection, it appears to be a man with a long ponytail, not wearing a shirt." i died laughing, while peter yelled at him, shaking his head, saying "wow. you ACTUALLY followed up on that, even though i just told you how creepy it is. wow."



as for your mom as a person.. she seems like she wants your approval for whatever reason. like maybe she has issues with her parents or you remind her of her mom or something, i have no idea. joining in on your conversations with others/watching movies are just situations where she's trying to bond with you without thinking about how weird it seems to you

We've also talked about this with Aqua and he'd spotted a similar trend. I remember him saying that he doesn't get why he should ask for a permission to e.g. borrow something if he believes he'd get the permission anyways or search through someone's drawers unless there was some situation-specific reason not to do it.

i agree with him completely on the former. if someone is laid back and you know that they won't care, it doesn't and shouldn't matter if you borrow their stuff without permission. not that you should with everyone, because obviously not everyone will be laid back like that. the latter probably has more to do with rational/irrational (but loosely)... it seems like you want there to be some clear rules about your property and he, being irrational, just doesn't care about those things so much. and while you may not agree with the first part of my post about your mom, there's a very big difference between overstepping boundaries like aqua was doing and just being awkward like your mom. it's common for an XLE to accidentally offend someone, but the way your mom was acting was just straight up awkward.

[anndelise]

This might be more of an instinctual stacking thing than an objective/subjective or merry/serious divide.

In my home, we each have our own shelves in the fridge and freezer, as well as our own cabinet space. We also purchase our own foods and make our own meals. We do sometimes share, but we ask (or offer) first. Richard though gives me permission to take whatever without asking. Things like grated cheese or such I do, but if it's nearing the last bit I will ask first, to make sure he didn't have plans for it...it also lets him know that he'll need to buy more.

Regarding personal space, we have problems with my SeFi daughter spreading her stuff into my space and then getting pissy at me when I ask her to please clear it up. I've tried giving her baskets or boxes to keep it in, but it doesn't work. We also have problems with trying to get her to respect that the house is Richard's and thus to respect his property by not creating homes for insects, spiders, mice, etc...reducing moisture retention stuff like wet towels on floors, and not fucking kicking in a wall because she's mad at me. She knows I get irritated and critical when I see the pigsty of her room and bathroom, so when she hears me coming down the hall, she jumps up to meet me, and gets pissy at me when I continue to the pc room...meaning i have to pass and deal with her stuff thrown everywhere. How dare I demand that she clear an f'n path for me!!

When she was younger I used to get so sick of it that I would shove her stuff into bags/boxes and throw it into the shed for a few months, then make her sit with me to sort through it. I am about ready to do it again!

As for privacy, Richard and I have to lock our bedroom door. And it's been during a fairly recent fight with her that I insisted that if my bedroom door is closed, don't fucking bother me!! It means I am trying to work on something and don't want to be disturbed unless absolutely necessary. Of course, that seems to mean that it's ok to explain to me in great detail how a game app isn't working right for her.

I believe that she is sp last.
Richard doesn't really have space/time/resource boundaries like I do, probably because he can easily ignore stuff, and is rarely bothered. I think he might be sp last, too. For example, he doesn't see our finances as separate, even though he makes significantly more than I do. But I consider them separate, stress out over me not putting in my share, and feeling reluctant and guilty for asking for money, or for him to buy me something.

[Absurd]

Yup, don't think it is socitype related much, more like human related, I think.

[willekeurig]

i agree with him completely on the former. if someone is laid back and you know that they won't care, it doesn't and shouldn't matter if you borrow their stuff without permission. not that you should with everyone, because obviously not everyone will be laid back like that. the latter probably has more to do with rational/irrational (but loosely)... it seems like you want there to be some clear rules about your property and he, being irrational, just doesn't care about those things so much. and while you may not agree with the first part of my post about your mom, there's a very big difference between overstepping boundaries like aqua was doing and just being awkward like your mom. it's common for an XLE to accidentally offend someone, but the way your mom was acting was just straight up awkward.

Eh? You're say my mom can't be EIE because Fe types don't overstep boundaries in a way I described, and then you're saying it's related to being or not being laid back? Are you suggesting Fe egos can't be laid back because laid back people don't care so much about boundaries and they do?

I'm don't know if I should even bother to answer tho the first part of your post. My mom is basically a textbook example of an EIE. Her psychological problems may account to why her Fe manifests in such neurotic ways sometimes, but dude, you're basing your typing of her as SLI (the total opposite of EIE) on one post, that is written by one person and focuses on a very small area of her personality. I don't see how E3:s fearing rejection is related to my mom at all. Strong Si because she drinks someone else's wine? Eh, no? She's more Beta NF than NBS ever, and Si polr as fuck. Her ability to relax and chill out is virtually non-existent, and if is she happens to be hungry/tired she yells at other people and makes a huge drama about how being a human sucks because your body forces you to eat and sleep all the time and then you have to stress about it. I'd like to see a Fe polr that is so extremely extroverted and people/atmosphere focused.

[Korpsy Knievel]

All these lengthy explanations are really getting away from reducing this problem's source to a maximum of 4 letters.

[InvisibleJim]

This thread.

[Absurd]

I don't think we have the same four letters in mind, korpsey.

Her ability to relax and chill out is virtually non-existent, and if is she happens to be hungry/tired she yells at other people and makes a huge drama about how being a human sucks because your body forces you to eat and sleep all the time and then you have to stress about it.

You know what you can do? You can switch labels on a bottle and put in the fridge. Your mum is Si polr so she won't notice. That's what we did to an Arab long time ago whom we were working with, I mean Arabs use their left hand when in toilet and do not use toilet paper, just water, so we switched labels on bottles and he did with a paint remover.

[willekeurig]

This thread doesn't seem to go anywhere. I think I'll just give the orgy-plan a go.

[Suz]

By saying that something is not type-related you are saying that every type has the EXACT same possibility of having that trait/committing that action. Which in almost all cases is utter bullshit. Are you really saying that an EII, for example, has the exact same possibility to cross people's personal boundaries and act in socially inappropriate ways than, let's say, SLE? Sounds a little wacky, eh?

I dont see how my words are implying what you are saying here. On the contrary by saying everything is type related, YOU are pretty much implying the above.

Many behaviors/choices are not socionic-type related. This is how there can be quite a bit of variability in phenotype among members of the same sociotye.

[willekeurig]

I dont see how my words are implying what you are saying here. On the contrary by saying everything is type related, YOU are pretty much implying the above.

Many behaviors/choices are not socionic-type related. This is how there can be quite a bit of variability in phenotype among members of the same sociotye.

Ti polr much, huh? Name a few behaviours/choices that you think are not type-related.

[Absurd]

Stating that Fe/Ti people shouldn't have the right to post on a socionics forum is not type related at all. Heh.

Anyhow, can't you just stop listening for a while, Agarina? I mean, I have this peculiarity that makes me deaf to whines and drama of other people, simply put, I'm not even there. Only can hear certain people, so I'm not entirely deaf, only to opposition.

Try it.

[mu4]

Eh? You're say my mom can't be EIE because Fe types don't overstep boundaries in a way I described, and then you're saying it's related to being or not being laid back? Are you suggesting Fe egos can't be laid back because laid back people don't care so much about boundaries and they do?

I'm don't know if I should even bother to answer tho the first part of your post. My mom is basically a textbook example of an EIE. Her psychological problems may account to why her Fe manifests in such neurotic ways sometimes, but dude, you're basing your typing of her as SLI (the total opposite of EIE) on one post, that is written by one person and focuses on a very small area of her personality. I don't see how E3:s fearing rejection is related to my mom at all. Strong Si because she drinks someone else's wine? Eh, no? She's more Beta NF than NBS ever, and Si polr as fuck. Her ability to relax and chill out is virtually non-existent, and if is she happens to be hungry/tired she yells at other people and makes a huge drama about how being a human sucks because your body forces you to eat and sleep all the time and then you have to stress about it. I'd like to see a Fe polr that is so extremely extroverted and people/atmosphere focused.

now that i sort of have time, i want to kind of expand on my comments earlier...

your mom is not enfj.

http://socionics.us/theory/be.shtml
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...averted_ethics


everything you were describing is what an Fe base would NOT do. they know what to say and how to say it to get the result they want. your mom is really socially awkward, she has no idea how she is coming across to others like an EIE would be. Fe bases, especially the enneagram 3s, are very image focused. they fear rejection, and therefore are VERY careful to act in a way that others will respond positively to. she seems way more likely to be Fe PoLR than anything. that whole post = complaining about an Fe PoLR. the alcohol thing strongly suggested weak Ni and Fe, strong Si.

You're both more or less right.

There are huge difference between EJ temperament and IP temperament.

EJ temperament have Bold and IP temperament have Cautious

Also EJ's have Producing and IP's have Accepting

EJ and IP temperament are conflicting temperament, and as such the basic mode of life is different.

Also due to the devaluing Extraverted ethics in a EIE is often oriented in a negative fashion to make others uncomfortable, to shake them out of their comfort zone. Don't think that people merely use their ego to make others feel better or work better, often the capacity of the ego is used to destroy, to hurt, and to damage others.

Her mom knows very well that she is crossing boundaries, but there is a compulsion to do it, because she wants that to be notices, she wants to be noticed.

My mom is EIE as well, and thru my life I've learned how to deal with her, and it's not about being nice. What I have to do is this. I have to tell her what she's saying is stupid/wrong, I'm right and she needs to listen to me and do what I advise. You would think this is abusive, but it's amazingly functional in dealing with her. I love her, but this is the only way I've learned how to deal with her, by imposing my will on her thru aggression and making very clear what my opinion is to her and how everything works. This is what her dual(LSI) would do. Luckily, as the benefactor, these are two of my mental functions as well as contact functions. I don't like to do this, but I can readily do it in order to emulate the behavior of her dual.

[golden]

. . . imposing my will on her thru aggression and making very clear what my opinion is to her and how everything works. This is what her dual(LSI) would do. Luckily, as the benefactor, these are two of my mental functions as well as contact functions. I don't like to do this, but I can readily do it in order to emulate the behavior of her dual.

I'm not so sure this is what LSI would do. Plus you sort of act that way in forum arguments with a lot of people who aren't your momma. Just sayin'.

[mu4]

I'm not so sure this is what LSI would do. Plus you sort of act that way in forum arguments with a lot of people who aren't your momma. Just sayin'.

The 2nd and 3rd functions are both contact and situational functions. Which means you will see this aspect of a individual quite often and often it can be a more apparent aspect of the individual, especially in productivity or stress. There may be a difference between me and an LSI as it's a preferred mode of expression vs a secondary mode of expression. However, the information elements being conveyed is the same.

It's also as I said functional, but I wouldn't say it's particularly nice or genial. It's a neutral mode of interaction(one favorable, on not favorable element) for me and it seems to be effective at conveying what I want so I use it. This is very different from PoLR expression because that is a far more limited function with respect to the 3rd function.

[Absurd]

This thread doesn't seem to go anywhere. I think I'll just give the orgy-plan a go.

Know that I'm going to support you in any way you think is necessary.

[willekeurig]

Also due to the devaluing Extraverted ethics in a EIE is often oriented in a negative fashion to make others uncomfortable, to shake them out of their comfort zone. Don't think that people merely use their ego to make others feel better or work better, often the capacity of the ego is used to destroy, to hurt, and to damage others.

Her mom knows very well that she is crossing boundaries, but there is a compulsion to do it, because she wants that to be notices, she wants to be noticed.

My mom is EIE as well, and thru my life I've learned how to deal with her, and it's not about being nice. What I have to do is this. I have to tell her what she's saying is stupid/wrong, I'm right and she needs to listen to me and do what I advise. You would think this is abusive, but it's amazingly functional in dealing with her. I love her, but this is the only way I've learned how to deal with her, by imposing my will on her thru aggression and making very clear what my opinion is to her and how everything works. This is what her dual(LSI) would do. Luckily, as the benefactor, these are two of my mental functions as well as contact functions. I don't like to do this, but I can readily do it in order to emulate the behavior of her dual.

Yeah, that's pretty much how my LSI dad deals with my mom, and at least to me it seems to work well. Whenever she acts neurotic or socially inappropriate my dad just very calmly explains to her what & why she has done wrong and what she should do to fix the problem. I still sometimes get shocked (well, that's too strong of a word but whatever) about how straightforward and forceful he can be, but it evidently calms her down and helps her to cope with things.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I have boundary problems with both parents. One is ESE, the other LxE. So yeah, not Fe/Ti-related at the very least.

My stepfather (LxE) is very particular about us having our doors shut for any reason other than changing. He thinks a closed door is the same as shutting out the family. I may be mistaken, but I think he's the "can't refuse hugs" type as well. Which makes me want to tell him he's doing a good job of teaching us we can't refuse male advances. And, of course, there's the whole "I'm the authority and trying to do what's best for you, so you can't shut me down in a disagreement/walk away when you're tired of me talking about you/complain when I'm taking too long for religious devotions or prayer" thing.

My mother (ESE) used to be really bad about drinking whatever cup was left on the counter. That may be where I got my habit of leaving stirring utensils in my drink. She's gotten better, thankfully.

[Beautiful sky]

He thinks a closed door is the same as shutting out the family. I may be mistaken, but I think he's the "can't refuse hugs" type as well. Which makes me want to tell him he's doing a good job of teaching us we can't refuse male advances.

WTH? Are you serious? So I've been hugged by my dad since I was born, pretty sure of that; that's turned me into a very promiscuous person according to your views. I never knew that about me.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

WTH? Are you serious? So I've been hugged by my dad since I was born, pretty sure of that; that's turned me into a very promiscuous person according to your views. I never knew that about me.

Yeah, try reading that again. You seem to have missed a key word or two.

[Scapegrace]

Yeah, try reading that again. You seem to have missed a key word or two.

She does that.

[willekeurig]

My stepfather (LxE) is very particular about us having our doors shut for any reason other than changing. He thinks a closed door is the same as shutting out the family

High School students that go to the US for exchange are taught here that this is the way things are done there by their organizations. At least both my dad (who went to Michigan in the 70's) and brother (who went to Indiana two years ago) were. Apparently it's not uncommon that people from around here get into problems with their host families because they don't realize that some behaviours that are considered normal or even desirable here may be seen as arrogant or rude on the other side of the pond.

[Aquagraph]

Se

and please stop using quadras until you learn the functions properly

Do capslock next.

You really do sound like an ass.

Make no mistake of it.

I think Aqua seems ILE, but don't generalize his behaviour over the whole type or Fe/Ti valuers. I know many ILEs who are very polite, ask permission and respect boundaries.

Fuck you, I'm very polite.

It's not something that is easily understood or explained.

= Insubstantial bullshit.

[Nowisthetime]

Fuck you, I'm very polite.

Fuck you too, sir, please It wasn't about you personally. Agarina was using you as an example and I wanted to challange that and give counter-examples, since many ILEs would always ask permission about lots of things etc.