Enneagram behaviors that correlate to the functions

[Azure Flame]

@Gilly... The only other personality I've considered based on some of everyone's observations has been EIE 8 So/Sx, which I think would be interesting to consider.

[Gilly]

No I doubt you're an EIE, or an 8. EIE 8 is like, Jack Nicholson.

[Azure Flame]

no you haven't. you've just found something to rub off your inflated ego with. it's just an excuse to be a condescending, weaselly doof.

oh, I guess you're right, because you said so.

[FDG]

ENTj 6w7

[Azure Flame]

ENTj 6w7

bahaha

I can't be the same as you, I'm too texan bro.

[Azure Flame]

Lets go! Keep arguing with me about my enneagram! I got enough brains for the lot of ya. Then when I'm done I'm gonna go eat cereal and masturbate.

[Absurd]

ENTj 6w7

bahaha

I can't be the same as you, I'm too texan bro.

Actually you can, FDG knows his fellow Gammas damn well.

[Radio]

oh, I guess you're right, because you said so.

you keep connecting the dots back into themselves and i don't know how you circumvent these loops to function and exist in the real world. or maybe you're just doing this to "win" which is also fucking silly.

[InvisibleJim]

Lets go! Keep arguing with me about my enneagram! I got enough brains for the lot of ya. Then when I'm done I'm gonna go eat cereal and masturbate.

You should be left to investigate your own enneatype in peace and people should stay on the topic of the thread.

But I sense a lot of butthurt getting in the way of having a realistic, constructive discussion of the topic.

Regardless, this thread is a bit confusing; it would be better if you framed the assumptions and such more explicitly and then the idiots would look dumb calling you on it.

Regarding enneatype 8, they aren't very useful, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

[FDG]

Actually you can, FDG knows his fellow Gammas damn well.

He could very well be the perfect mate of Lady ISFj Maritsa

[Galen]

Lets go! Keep arguing with me about my enneagram! I got enough brains for the lot of ya. Then when I'm done I'm gonna go eat cereal and masturbate.

You confuse spouting out grand half-baked and contextless generalizations (which you already solicit to others for reaffirmation anyway) as "brainz." Stubbornness will only dig you a deeper hole downward.

[Gilly]

ENTj 6w7

Ehhh...maybe.

Options I have on the table are:

SLE-Ti 3w4 sp/sx
SLE-Ti 6w7 sx/sp
LIE-Ni 6w7 sx/sp
LIE-Ni 6w5 sx/so
Long shot:
EIE-Ni 6w7 sp/sx
EIE-Ni 6w5 sx/so

[Gilly]

Oh you are such a passive aggressive jerk sometimes. Go easy, he's still new.

[Galen]

Oh you are such a passive aggressive jerk sometimes. Go easy, he's still new.

I edited the post right afterward, cool your tits.

[Gilly]

I edited the post right afterward, cool your tits.

Ok ok

[Absurd]

He could very well be the perfect mate of Lady ISFj Maritsa

You're such a lovely matchmaker, girl.

[InvisibleJim]

I edited the post right afterward, cool your tits.

Yes, because that's better.

[Gilly]

Yes, because that's better.

It is. He chose to actually attempt communication instead of just posting a picture. It's less condescending. Still condescending, but not as bad. At least he explained himself, y'know?

[Ryan]

I disagree, Gilly. Lets have an argument.

[Korpsy Knievel]

this particular enneagram idea needs a lot more work before tossing it out for discussion btw.

Quite true.

DJA, since we have all the time in the world, and because enneagram and socionics have no direct correlation, I suggest approaching this in a series of threads that examine one e-type each and how it might manifest in conjunction with a range of likely sociotypes. This method compartmentalizes the workload into more easily-defined and -achieved goals, i.e. the development of subsystems that can eventually be collected and edited for integration in an over-arching essay or article covering the full sociotypal-enneagramic double rainbow. That way, interested respondents to such a project aren't just presented with a half-built something-or-another atop a pile of spare parts and told to assemble it all into a working machine. Give it a shot and see how it goes.

[InvisibleJim]

It is. He chose to actually attempt communication instead of just posting a picture. It's less condescending. Still condescending, but not as bad. At least he explained himself, y'know?

Okay, fair enough. He could have engaged constructively regarding the topic to begin with. That would have been much better.

Anyway, I like the idea of trying to work out how enneatypes relate to other enneatypes; this is something socionics does to great effect. I'm not sure how you can do it other than via. opinion due to a lack of a cognitive style model. Which is fine, but limited.

I also like the idea of analyzing how cognitive functions might lead to certain enneatypes. This would be quite useful if we could derive some kind of chart.

k0rpsy is right in that it certainly requires a detailed case by case analysis. I would also recommend thinking about the instinctual stackings.

[Gilly]

I disagree, Gilly. Lets have an argument.

Your avatar makes you even more of a bitch than you already are.

[Gilly]

Okay, fair enough. He could have engaged constructively regarding the topic to begin with. That would have been much better.

Well I think he did to start, although I will agree he is deficient in his explanations. I don't think he's ill-intentioned.

[Azure Flame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greedy_reductionism

That's hard for me to understand but I'll check it out.

[Gilly]

Quite true.

DJA, since we have all the time in the world, and because enneagram and socionics have no direct correlation, I suggest approaching this in a series of threads that examine one e-type each and how it might manifest in conjunction with a range of likely sociotypes. This method compartmentalizes the workload into more easily-defined and -achieved goals, i.e. the development of subsystems that can eventually be collected and edited for integration in an over-arching essay or article covering the full sociotypal-enneagramic double rainbow. That way, interested respondents to such a project aren't just presented with a half-built something-or-another atop a pile of spare parts and told to assemble it all into a working machine. Give it a shot and see how it goes.

That's smart as shit. I think he should do it.

[Ryan]

Your avatar makes you even more of a bitch than you already are.

[Gilly]

Anyway, I like the idea of trying to work out how enneatypes relate to other enneatypes; this is something socionics does to great effect. I'm not sure how you can do it other than via. opinion due to a lack of a cognitive style model. Which is fine, but limited.

The thing is, Enneagram is completely internal. It has little to do with how one actively and dynamically interprets his or her existence, and is more of a kind of constant weight on the scales of decision making.

I also like the idea of analyzing how cognitive functions might lead to certain enneatypes. This would be quite useful if we could derive some kind of chart.

I think that would probably lead to a whole lot of baseless speculation, but I do think there are basic correlations between enneatypes and socionics types, so perhaps it's worth exploring.

k0rpsy is right in that it certainly requires a detailed case by case analysis. I would also recommend thinking about the instinctual stackings.

[Gilly]

No, actually I was just running with your joke by making a generic comment that is characteristic of our interactions in the hopes of making light of our occasional conflicts, so that maybe we won't take ourselves so damn seriously next time it comes to that.

[FDG]

No case by case analysis is required, I alread provided the right answer.



...Maybe. With 33% probability. Or perhaps less.

[Azure Flame]

Quite true.

DJA, since we have all the time in the world, and because enneagram and socionics have no direct correlation, I suggest approaching this in a series of threads that examine one e-type each and how it might manifest in conjunction with a range of likely sociotypes. This method compartmentalizes the workload into more easily-defined and -achieved goals, i.e. the development of subsystems that can eventually be collected and edited for integration in an over-arching essay or article covering the full sociotypal-enneagramic double rainbow. That way, interested respondents to such a project aren't just presented with a half-built something-or-another atop a pile of spare parts and told to assemble it all into a working machine. Give it a shot and see how it goes.

lol! ok I suppose I could change the layout of the thread to just a simple question to start a discussion instead of putting my own half baked ideas on the table for people to get confused over.

This is a common problem with me.

I've reworded the original post, I hope that helps.

[Ryan]

No, actually I was just running with your joke by making a generic comment that is characteristic of our interactions in the hopes of making light of our occasional conflicts, so that maybe we won't take ourselves so damn seriously next time it comes to that.

Oh okay. I didn't know we had occasional conflicts to begin with. Glad that's out of the way though.

[Galen]

Since enneagram has become such a popular topic of discussion on here, why don't we create a forum or subforum devoted entirely to it? Could have one subforum devoted to each center for head/heart/gut and then one more for miscellaneous parts like other triads, tritype, etc. It's probably best to not clutter up the socionics discussion forum with enneathreads anyway, and dumping everything into a miscellaneous Psychology bin doesn't help for organization on a topic that's so prolific now.

[InvisibleJim]

Do you think its possible that some traits of enneagram personalities are incorrectly attributed to enneagram? For example: if enneagram say something like, 8's have expansive energy, I start to wonder what socionics functions would also describe a sort of expansive energy. I start to think, Se rises to meet challenges, and Fe also has a sort of energy thing to it.

Yes, socionics describes the process of cognition versus several archetypes. I am not convince (yet) on other areas. Enneagram defines 9 archetypes almost randomly regarding fears, motivations etc. but doesn't describe how you get there. Unreferenced opinion warning: In my view peoples motivations are highly situation dependent and therefore are not fixed. How much these overlap in terms of observed behaviour is debateable.

So do you think its possible some enneagram traits are attributed to enneagram when they shouldn't be? What do you think those things are, and why?

People tend to forget that enneagram is very much a situational specific problem for example: 2x5's and a 9 in a group; add an 8 and find 2x6s (the 5 and 9) and a 3 from the 6 due to the change in interaction. I find instinctual stacking more interesting because it appears more consistent, likely due to the lower number of arbitrary archetypes. But I often find this situational switching concerning also.

[Absurd]

FDG is always serious. Not only first time I hear something like E6 LIE, even though I am deaf, it is actually the first time I hear, even though I am deaf, something like E6 LIE that turns out not LIE matched with E2 ESI that turns out not ESI as well. Werd.

[Azure Flame]

You're stretching the themes to fit yourself into them.

So how do my feelings and fixations with my family's treatment toward me fit in with 6 then?

"'m also unaware of my gut IN THE MOMENT. So if something shady is going on, I won't realize it until I sit down and my gut feelings start to surface. … I have a habit of ignoring my gut intuitions, even though they're very frequently correct."

Overall, much of what you've described of yourself in the links above (and elsewhere) speaks strongly to E6 descriptions:

Until they can get in touch with their own inner guidance, Sixes are like a ping-pong ball that is constantly shuttling back and forth between whatever influence is hitting the hardest in any given moment. Because of this reactivity, no matter what we say about Sixes, the opposite is often also as true. They are both strong and weak, fearful and courageous, trusting and distrusting, defenders and provokers, sweet and sour, aggressive and passive, bullies and weaklings, on the defensive and on the offensive, thinkers and doers, group people and soloists, believers and doubters, cooperative and obstructionistic, tender and mean, generous and petty—and on and on. It is the contradictory picture that is the characteristic “fingerprint” of Sixes, the fact that they are a bundle of opposites.

The biggest problem for Sixes is that they try to build safety in the environment without resolving their own emotional insecurities. When they learn to face their anxieties, however, Sixes understand that although the world is always changing and is, by nature uncertain, they can be serene and courageous in any circumstance. And they can attain the greatest gift of all, a sense of peace with themselves despite the uncertainties of life.

You're arguing that I am a 6, because I match the only parts of the venn diagram where 6 and 8 overlap. Lets focus on what is mutually exclusive to the types.

Sure, a CP6 is polar across the spectrum. But the same case can be made for an 8.

8's are strong, yet easily hurt and internally weak. Independant, yet secretly seeking submission and dependance. Scared of looking vulnerable, yet appearing scared of nothing. Aggressive, yet secretly very submissive. With the 8, most of these more hidden aspects are revealed when the 8 chooses to reveal them. This is most often the case in close intimate relationships... and the fact that I have chosen to reveal several of these things to everyone here.

Why do I not identify with 6? Because I do not see everything that can go wrong at all times. I can only see what goes wrong, when I choose to prepare myself for risk. And the rebuttal to this: the fact that I even consider the risks makes me a 6, is simply an incorrect argument. So don't try it. There is a degree of planning and careful consideration that should be taken before taking action... except when action alone will suffice. That is my method, especially as a Ti subtype.

If I were constantly aware of everything that could go wrong around me, that would make me a 6. That would make me anxious and worried on the 24/7 to the point that I eventually tune it out.

Why do you look up to hero characters? What's the draw for you?

I identify with them. Why? I just do. Its an internal thing. I see myself in them. I'm a beta, and if you haven't noticed its a big shakespearean play over here.

I am a superhero. I saved my brother when he slipped down a slope and was on the side of a cliff about to fall 70 feet. I am a psychologist in a way and enjoy solving people's problems. I enjoy fixing things. My friends are stomping around a room in frustration trying to plan a birthday party yelling "THSI ISN"T GOING TO WORK!" I stand up and take charge and immediately start telling the INTp to shut up, the ENTj to "be at the gate with your car at 8pm" and the kid with the suv "you're giving those 3 people rides. Be at the gate at 8." I save the day. I am a superhero in my own right and I take pride in that. Beta ST's are the heroes who go out to save the damsel in destress beta NF's.

All through this decision making process, there is no sort of consideration of the risks. No doubt, no questions. "what if he car breaks down?" "What if X happens?" Nope. No sort of unknowns are taken into consideration. Make it work.

I identify particularly with the flash (and the green guy at times as well), as pertains to their attitudes in this video... I'm pretty sure they're all SLE's, batman might be LSI or something I dont' really care, I'd even argue that each character represents a certain part of the SLE's thought process, and this entire video is actually symbolic of what goes on inside an SLE's head when he makes a decision. Batman is the conclusion, flash is the question, green guy is the implementation of the decision:

[Azure Flame]

one more thing about the gut center I'd like to add that I didn't follow up on...

I often make decisions so quickly that I don't remember how I got there. The deed is done, no need to look back and analyze. Would that qualify as gut intuition?

Because in the context of that statement I'm speaking mostly of paranoias that arise. For example, just last night I was talking to this girl and had a terrible paranoia surface about her motives, that I chose to ignore because we were talking in text and miscommunications tend to happen over that medium. That sorta thing. Those kind of gut feelings I ignore, that often turn out to be true. In the context of emotional relationships, which I have very little confidence in, sure, I ask for help all the time and don't seek my own inner guidance. But that is really the only fasset of my life where that applies. I don't think that's enough of a case to say I'm a core 6 though.

[strangeling]

I like your music; it's hard to find someone that appreciates imaginative music, rather than lyrical.

Let me know if you think you figure this out. Enneagram is kind of hazy to me; sometimes I think I figured something out and then it goes back to uncertainty. Not sure if it's worth the effort it seems to take, but then again I thought that about socionics at times and it makes a lot more sense now.

[Radio]

Independant, yet secretly seeking submission and dependance.

Aggressive, yet secretly very submissive.

6 >>>> 8.
Compliant > Assertive.

Scared of looking vulnerable, yet appearing scared of nothing.

IME 6s are far more likely to care about "looking" or coming off as vulnerable, the fear is reasoned and cerebral, and there are very distinctive lines of development where this fear stretches out to. For 8s, the fear is highly internalized and gut-based, felt rather than thought, there's almost a visceral feeling of comfort/discomfort that guides their decisions. But I suppose, without being stuck on semantics, what you said was vague enough to apply either way.

[Gilly]

Nah, I don't think he's ENTj. I floated the possibility for awhile (along with the other 3 EXTx types), though on cam he's a fairly obvious EP type. Factor in the klutzy Fe-seeking shit he does, and I think EXTp is salient enough. And I'm increasingly inclined to believe he might well be SLE > ILE.

Yeah he has a Beta flair and while he is prone to some logical dissection and hypothetical roaming, it's not really evasive in the same way ILEs do it; it feels more like he's playing around by questioning and testing everything kind of openly (almost a lighter version of what I did when first started discussing my type on the forum, lol, although he doesn't barge head-first into people quite the same way I tend to) and not taking any of it very seriously while still skimming the top for infoz; 6w7. Probably SLE-Ti 6w7 sp/sx.

[anndelise]

I just thought I'd throw in, for both Ashton's lengthy post just above, and for DJA's description of 8.

I admit that I don't know much about enneagram. Most things I read on it will get the actions right, but not the motivations, or the motivations right, but not the resulting actions. So far, the 6 descriptions have seemed to describe what's going on inside me more than the other descriptions. There is an inner sense of vulnerability, easily hurt, awareness of own weaknesses, and feeling an initial instinct to submit to someone else's claims. I am constantly alert to the environment, to what other people say, do, and might be thinking...this gets exhausting. I am also constantly questioning. Questioning what I'm told, questionining what I perceive, questioning my own thoughts and feelings, etc. And those feelings, those anxieties, those continuous self-doubts, that constant alertness and constant questioning, that initial instinct to comply to others.....all of it...pisses me the fuck off! I want to fight and rage against those feelings, and will subsequently assert myself against assholes who think they can crush me...even if that asshole appears to be myself. It may take a while before I reach the point of asserting myself, but there is only so much I will tolerate.

My understanding is that in some ways, the counter-phobic reaction can be perceived as being E8 actions,
but the reactions aren't being driven by E8 motivations, they are driven by (some of) E6 motivations.
I kinda wonder if one of the main differences might be the difference between reactiveness (E6) vs proactiveness (E8). But i'm not really sure how to go about clearly defining those either, so I could very well be wrong on that.