Blahfuckblah

[Absurd]

What are typings worth? I mean, you're on this site and at least some of them do not correspond, and you're still making a theater out of how one is talking nonsense when your self-typing, even if it doesn't correspond, doesn't correspond?

I put my fair share of work in this circus, ad I would like to see it pay off, and it did, actually. Problem is, all this talk about dichotomies, Reinin, Cognitive Styles and stuff - it is not going to work unless you're not going to work, and you're not working, you do not function at all. Like I said, at least some of you.

Point is, no matter how many type lists are going to be produced, and no matter how many typings you're going to receive - it is still nothing. It stays on this site. In real world, in a real world, where you accept reality as it is - it is still nothing, for you're stuck in some kind of fantasy of somebody you're not. I hope not, actually. That would mean you're blind, literally.

[ashlesha]

correspond to what absurd

[Absurd]

correspond to what absurd

Correspond to socionics?

I mean, seriously, lungs, don't you see it - I'm not making fun or something. I'm really being serious.

[Scapegrace]

My personality does not compute.

[Absurd]

My personality does not compute.

Danger, danger! Will Robinson...

[Absurd]

Anyhow, it works alright with me, I think.

[ashlesha]

typings do not correspond to socionics.

even if they don't correspond they don't correspond.

dichotomies don't work unless you work.

some of us do not function at all.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????

decent job on the last paragraph though.

[Absurd]

typings do not correspond to socionics.

even if they don't correspond they don't correspond.

dichotomies don't work unless you work.

some of us do not function at all.

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????

decent job on the last paragraph though.

It's easy as life. Let me expand further. Some guy types some type in some typology system and finds it to be in correspondence with socionics type. That guy did himself the trouble of running it through intertype relations, both theoretically and in practice. Found it to be alright and gave it a green light, a green light to the theory, for it explained what he was looking for.

Now, this guy magically stopped doing that and came to the conclusion it wasn't it and he was lying to himself all the time. Ditched his, I don't know, wife due to a change in scenery and self-types something else.

What I wanted to know is, how does one function, to actually pull something like that off? I mean, you want to give something credibility, you have to actually be credible yourself.

Does it make sense now?

[ashlesha]

It's easy as life. Let me expand further. Some guy types some type in some typology system and finds it to be in correspondence with socionics type. That guy did himself the trouble of running it through intertype relations, both theoretically and in practice. Found it to be alright and gave it a green light, a green light to the theory, for it explained what he was looking for.

Now, this guy magically stopped doing that and came to the conclusion it wasn't it and he was lying to himself all the time. Ditched his, I don't know, wife due to a change in scenery and self-types something else.

What I wanted to know is, how does one function, to actually pull something like that off? I mean, you want to give something credibility, you have to actually be credible yourself.

Does it make sense now?

some reasons off the top of my head:

1. he misunderstood the theory.
2. he misunderstood his wife.
3. the theory fell apart at some point and stopped working so he adjusted.
4. he was lying to himself.

my money is on #3.

people who change their types get their credibility questioned fairly often.

i personally think people should be given more credibility than theory, in general. if you are in a position to choose one or the other - like if somebody says something about themselves that doesn't match what you type them.

[Gravolez]

I use socionics IRL. It works for me.

[Absurd]

I use socionics IRL. It works for me.

That's what I wanted to hear, sort of.

[Gravolez]

The problem that you described to lungs is not related to socionics. People do that regardless of socionics.
I have heard a lot of people say: I am such and such a person. I am not such a person. I do this. I don't do that.
People who would do what you described are the people who nevertheless would cling to an image of themselves that might not correspond to how others see them or how they really are anyway. Even if it correposnds and they are generally right it is still bad because people change, people are not the same in all situations, in all configurations of people, in different social roles etc
So people who do cling to labels instead of accept themselves as they are might have such problems just because they would use labels for themselves regardless of the type of the labels.

At least I think so.

[ashlesha]

The problem that you described to lungs is not related to socionics. People do that regardless of socionics.
I have heard a lot of people say: I am such and such a person. I am not such a person. I do this. I don't do that.
People who would do what you described are the people who nevertheless would cling to an image of themselves that might not correspond to how others see them or how they really are anyway. Even if it correposnds and they are generally right it is still bad because people change, people are not the same in all situations, in all configurations of people, in different social roles etc
So people who do cling to labels instead of accept themselves as they are might have such problems just because they would use labels for themselves regardless of the type of the labels.

At least I think so.

i think in absurd's world we should still be drinking breastmilk and wearing diapers because that's how we were when we were born and changing means lying.

[Absurd]

i think in absurd's world we should still be drinking breastmilk and wearing diapers because that's how we were when we were born and changing means lying.

When you were born, you didn't even bother registering on 16types.info. You were innocent.

[Absurd]

The problem that you described to lungs is not related to socionics. People do that regardless of socionics.

Related to or not. It is a socionics forum and what's on a socionics forum is type related, unless you're, no offence, lying to yourself.

I have heard a lot of people say: I am such and such a person. I am not such a person. I do this. I don't do that.

That's completely alien to me actually. Never described myself this way. I do not want to sound like above it all or, heh, superior, but it is a bit childish. Anyhow, what happened with those people you cite?

People who would do what you described are the people who nevertheless would cling to an image of themselves that might not correspond to how others see them or how they really are anyway. Even if it correposnds and they are generally right it is still bad because people change, people are not the same in all situations, in all configurations of people, in different social roles etc

You actually scratched on the things I have been saying here. And it still floats there, for you see, say, BG as this or that type and some other person sees it differently. Question is, to what self-image BG clings to, then?

I mean you make it sound like you're a different person in different situations, social roles as you put it. This is funny to me.

So people who do cling to labels instead of accept themselves as they are might have such problems just because they would use labels for themselves regardless of the type of the labels.

You're clinging to a ILI label - does that mean you have accepted yourself as you are? That is, you can't change? And how is that being a different person in different social roles?

[ashlesha]

I have heard a lot of people say: I am such and such a person. I am not such a person. I do this. I don't do that.

That's completely alien to me actually. Never described myself this way.

cough

[Absurd]

cough

Okay, I'm smart

[ashlesha]

Okay, I'm smart

YOU LIED TO YOURSELF

[Gravolez]

I don't describe myself as ILI. I am much more than the ILI description. I don't even care that much about the description because the descriptions in socionics to me just show general trends which might help identify certain types. In certain situations I behave in a way which has nothing to do with the ILI description. I consider socionics to be more about cognition and valued IEs. I don't cling to the ILI label when it comes to behaviour. I use it only to identify things that I need to be careful about, things that I need to work on, things that I might overlook, things I should be more tolerant about etc. In a sense I am trying to use socionics to alter my behaviour for the better. I have it easy here cause I see things as a flow or a process and constantly changing so it is hard for me to fall in this trap (labelling myself as such and such) but there are other traps I can easily fall into.

I think self image and putting labels on oneself are two different things. There was a thread on the forum about general semantics and E`. I think there is some effect like that: when people present an idea in words and they start thinking about the idea in the way they verbalized it, which is not necessarily what their idea was. Words might have more or less meaning than what was the idea you wanted to express.

[Gravolez]

I am not sure if my knowledge of socionics and IEs has anything to do with the image I have of myself. It might have. It surely helps me in understanding but I feel it as pretty much something secondary.
It requires conscious analysis of my motives and feelings in order for me to not act according to the urges I feel but instead take into account what I think I know of myself and adjust my behaviour accordingly. When I do this I often feel uncomfortable with what I do. Conscious activity in the brain is a very little part of all brain activities and I think that character and personality are something which is very much related to the unconscious activities rather than the conscious. That is why I think that various psychological fields contribute very little if any to my self-image (or at least what I see as self-image).

[Absurd]

Whoops, didn't see this before.

some reasons off the top of my head:

1. he misunderstood the theory.
2. he misunderstood his wife.
3. the theory fell apart at some point and stopped working so he adjusted.
4. he was lying to himself.

my money is on #3.

That means that person ought to adjust to the theory to ensure it is going to be working? And if the theory stopped working, then shouldn't be there nothing to adjust to?

people who change their types get their credibility questioned fairly often

i personally think people should be given more credibility than theory, in general. if you are in a position to choose one or the other - like if somebody says something about themselves that doesn't match what you type them.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks.

I am not sure if my knowledge of socionics and IEs has anything to do with the image I have of myself. It might have. It surely helps me in understanding but I feel it as pretty much something secondary.
It requires conscious analysis of my motives and feelings in order for me to not act according to the urges I feel but instead take into account what I think I know of myself and adjust my behaviour accordingly. When I do this I often feel uncomfortable with what I do. Conscious activity in the brain is a very little part of all brain activities and I think that character and personality are something which is very much related to the unconscious activities rather than the conscious. That is why I think that various psychological fields contribute very little if any to my self-image (or at least what I see as self-image).

It has a bit to do with it. No socionics/typology, no self-image corresponding to said theory you can/could check to get a result. Besides, it's a personality theory and psychology plays a part in it.

Anyhow, what else do you feel?

[JWC3]

One of these dogs is SEE and one is ILI *chuckles*

[ashlesha]

kj;hklhjkl;lkh.ljhljkhljhjkhl.jknl

[Absurd]

kj;hklhjkl;lkh.ljhljkhljhjkhl.jknl

Meaning?

[ashlesha]

general frustration with jwc3's post that would be pointless to extract into words but was begging to be let out in some fashion.

[Absurd]

general frustration with jwc3's post that would be pointless to extract into words but was begging to be let out in some fashion.

That's normal, as in predictable, just like most things on this forum, no matter who says it. No need to lose a night's sleep over it. Although, don't tell anybody, but JWC3 agreed that I use him like a hammerdrill to obstruct those ESI walls. Walls down, Gamma quadra falls. Plunder and pillage.

Join me, lungs...

[ashlesha]

no thanks.

[Absurd]

no thanks.

That's the spirit. It's not even real.

[JWC3]

That's the spirit. It's not even real.

Look dude, if you're going to switch from seriousness to a make-believe masquerade when people are trying to converse with you expect them to think you mean it offensively.

It's a lot like telling someone that what the two of you are talking about is less interesting than play-time or worse the equivalent of made up nonsense. At least to most people from western culture and more often if those people are at a long psychological distance.

For me personally? If you wonder why I suddenly begin talking over your head in Shakespearean English or using advanced literary techniques and in general being sesquipedalian, it's because you're being offensive to me. Instead of making the effort to communicate with you on a level you understand I'm going to use that same effort to communicate with you on a level that at best is still going to make you look foolish if you attempt to reach it within waning window for wit that exists in interpersonal interactions.

[Gravolez]

Oh, you didn't expect a prolonged meaningful conversation, did you?
Don't blame Absurd for who he is

[JWC3]

Oh, you didn't expect a prolonged meaningful conversation, did you?
Don't blame Absurd for who he is

In my defense he has these brief flashes of civility that are so seductive to me. I genuinely want him to be more than a offensive dick, I really do. It's just always a trap.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Oh, you didn't expect a prolonged meaningful conversation, did you?
Don't blame Absurd for who he is

Yeah, I blame his mother for producing a a steaming pile of poo.

[Absurd]

say, if i say it's a duck coz it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and walks like duck, someone says 'ah, that's just e55w69, coz acting like a duck is just the kind of thing an ostrich does 60% of the time'.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be Ayn Rand.

Look dude, if you're going to switch from seriousness to a make-believe masquerade when people are trying to converse with you expect them to think you mean it offensively.

Actually it is me who took offence for I were blabbing about things in a peaceful and non-derogatory way, cruising the high seas, the mare liberum and fishing shrimp and fish (I have a license) until you came in and put holes into one of my battle ships, I mean fishing ships.

I mean, it's not a surprise to me a all. I saw you concentrating your Gamma flotilla the moment you entered this thread and those walls of text carry a load greater than my plutonium shells. I mean, why the sweat and all, you just could say it straight off the bat.

All this talk about quadra values, V.I, and everything else that is of some kind of importance and I end up Gamma, seriously?

In my defense he has these brief flashes of civility that are so seductive to me. I genuinely want him to be more than a offensive dick, I really do. It's just always a trap.

I'm not offensive to people who are not offensive towards me, but I'm not going to stand there and say "you want fries with that" after.

Oh, you didn't expect a prolonged meaningful conversation, did you?

Don't blame Absurd for who he is

Eh, two, I counted, two Gamma people on white horses staging an attack on the Free Sovereign and Confederate Absurd States. Sound the alarm, all hands on deck, shoot women and children first!

Don't blame yourself as well, let me do it. Oh and as long we're on battle typing business page, I can marry you two together fast.

Yeah, I blame his mother for producing a a steaming pile of poo.

I would like to say third Gamma, but you don't count Jadae. You're like a 10 year old girl who has been raped intellectually and physically, running on Internet forums telling everyone how have you been mistreated, loading yourself with pills and starting tiny chat sessions to prove how hard you are when you're just anything but.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I'm sorry about your father.

[Absurd]

I'm sorry about your father.

Thanks for the condolences, but last time he called me, he was still alive. Nothing to feel sorry about and no need to go out of your way, Jadae. Just relax and slip into something more comfortable, like a coma.

[Absurd]

[JWC3]

Absurd, I'll get back to what we were talking about in a moment.

An addendum for anyone who has been following this conversation.

I don't mean to imply or perpetuate the false notion that SEEs are naturally unintelligent. I very actively did imply this, whether for the sake of explanation or humor I'm not sure. That is completely untrue and I apologize for implying as much. SEEs can be very intellectually inclined naturally and intelligent as well. As can any socionics type. Rather the take home message that I was getting at and should have stated far more vividly than the now resounding implications of my words isn't that they are unintelligent. Rather that the SEE perspective, my perspective, is one of unimaginable gratitude for the help they receive in any setting. Be it intellectual, social, romantic, or otherwise. That they actually believe without it they wouldn't have made any progress at all. It's not that an SEE, or myself for that matter, wouldn't have; it's that the assistance is viewed as instrumental and for that they can very actively be eternally grateful. They tend to diminish their own contributions to their success and place the entirety of the responsibility on those who lent a hand.

It's not that SEEs are stupid, it's that they are thankful. Incredibly so.

[strangeling]

ITT socionics trolls itself.

[Korpsy Knievel]

ITT socionics trolls itself.

SOP

[Absurd]

I don't mean to imply or perpetuate the false notion that SEEs are naturally unintelligent.

They're stupid actually, ask korpsey.