I received an email that fans were disappointed after they learned their book was edited. One replied by stating that it "was if the words were cherry picked to skew the reader in a biased way." So, by popular request, I released its unedited version as quickly as possible. Be warned, it actually is quite boring.

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written by Amber

last evening you posted a few things that i probably attached the right meaning to.

kindly stop.
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written by Jimmers
I'm really not sure what you are referring to.
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written by Amber

I am sorry. I must have fast-forwarded something automatically.
a while ago Kim wrote me a PM to NF-inform me that mby I was needlessly harassing a person who was quite affected by some traumatic experiences (Suede). I eventually conceded to treat him as a human being and not only as a total jerk.
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written by Jimmers
oh, lol. I didn't know if I said something offensive or what the hell happened.

cheers
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written by Amber

i think i'm clicking send for half messages in a hurry or smth.

u did know u said smth. offensive (as a delta nf), but that was obviously a matter of deep feeling that u are free to indulge in. the point of my message was that you should probably stop ..especially since i don't recall having given u any concrete reasons to hate me or deeply dislike me and inform me of that in a compulsive way. i have already cut u from my "friends" list to let u know i'm fine with ur decision.
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written by Jimmers

Amber, I really don't know what you are talking about here. I looked back at what I posted and I didn't see anything that was referring to you. Perhaps you misinterpreted? I don't know because you haven't told me what has offended you. I posted some songs and discussed Te vulnerable, but beyond that, I'm at a total loss here.

While I don't think we were ever really friends to begin with, I don't hate or deeply dislike you. I do get bothered by the fact that you don't seem to listen when I give plausible reasons for being other types, but that just seems to only give you more justification for your type of me. I try and keep an open mind, listen to what you have to say, but you don't seem to be interested in having a rational discussion with me at all, especially since I have already asked to discuss it with you in private so that maybe we could come to some understanding.

I'm not into social drama, so it is unlikely that I would post some passive aggressive statement in an attempt to offend you.

Your email has unfortunately been helpful to me. Unfortunate in that you were offended, but helpful in that it has helped me come to understand that I am more likely to be merry vs serious.

You don't have to respond you if don't like, but I would appreciate it if you would.
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written by Amber

you vibe mbti INFP. I don't know about socionics ... you don't have the ij strictness and you don't seem to pass much moral judgement to fit the fi parameters. otherwise i also noticed strong ni (as in development of ppl/situations over time, underlying meaning etc.). which in socio-vocabulary indicates the demonstrative function. u could be eii, iee ...mby ili and esi and that's about all. but i think socionics is flawed and cynical and it impoverishes ppl's experience. u seem to have a fascination with exploring types (and yourself) partly as an intellectual exercise.

but for your record there is nothing that could make me ignore the gut feeling I had about you and change my mind about the real meaning of your words and actions. I'm not sure if it all started with your "dream" about me, but it may have ended there.
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written by Jimmers

Amber,

I like you. I think we have similar interests. Your avatars are really cool and interesting. You're very intelligent, have great taste in music and art.

To the best of my recollection, and I honestly mean that, the dream I had of you was the first and last time I was referring to you. I don't like to get wrapped up in unnecessary conflict. I did write that "dream" out of frustration, but that was quite some time ago. In interpreting what I meant there: 1)I honestly didn't know whether to refer to you as male or female. I thought you were a female and then I read a post at some point that stated you were a male. Since then, I've gotten the hint that you are female. 2) I was frustrated by being pigeonholed into a type 3) I was trying make it funny by making it into a scary dream. I'm very sorry that I hurt your feelings in what I wrote.

Probably the most angry thing I've said lately was wanting to punch Jung in this face. I hope you didn't think I was referring to you. I would never even imply such a thing. I am really just frustrated at typology.

I can totally see that I vibe like an MBTI INFP, and the more time I spend learning typology, the more I see that as likely. The reason why I argue against it, is that I'm a very logical, analytical person as well as being ethical and artistic. My F and T are very, very close. I can't tell if I'm an ethically inclined logic type, or a logically inclined ethical type. No wonder I'm confused. Some days, it really messes with my mind. The last few days, I've been reading about base vs role and I think this is the most accurate information about me. I really see my internal conflict being Ti vs Fi, yet I have strengths in both areas.

I don't want to post on this forum because this is personal and I'm a very private person, but I would like to share this with you here. I've always had an active, vivid imagination as a boy. I lived in my own world to say the least. I was put in art enrichment classes when I was seven because I showed a talent in art. By the time I was in fourth grade I developed a keen interest in science and by junior high I was taking advanced math, science, and art classes. I also loved putting together models, puzzles, taking things apart and putting them back together. As an adult, I've done mechanical work on my cars, remodeled parts of my house.

In college, I was a biology major, almost failed out, switched to art, then switched back to biology and graduated with a B.S. in Biology. It was in my junior year that I became really interested in philosophy after I took mandatory humanities courses. It was like a whole new world opened up to me.

So there has always been this back and forth between logic and ethics. I'm currently a medical technologist and specialize in chemistry. I'm raising a family and ethical concerns are at the forefront of my life as well, at home and work. I may not vibe like an Ij, but I don't necessarily think I vibe Ip either. Ij with Ne subtype seems reasonable though.

When I was into MBTI, I typed as INTJ and INTP, but found the types to be too argumentative online and finally settled on INFJ, after reading that many INFJs think they are INTJs and INTPs. I never really thought about INFP because they just came across as emotionally immature, especially the ones online, but that could've been age difference. Personally though, I've always felt more grown up and mature for my age in that I always thought I've had a pretty good understanding of people. I remember when I was 19 and was at a funeral, and a relative was concerned about a four year old standing around staring at the dead person and she said that it seemed a little strange. I said, "I don't think it's strange, he's just curious and try to understand what's going on." she then replied, "wow, I never thought it about it like that before. You know, you're really interesting to talk to."

I don't really like to talk about my feelings, unlike what I see so many Fi doms doing online, although I certainly have a lot of emotion. Maybe it's because I've gotten well past that adolescent angst. I never talked about my feelings then either, never wanting to burden anyone with them. I didn't have a computer at all until I was in my early twenties and I used to bottle everything inside. I never even liked talking about myself. Now it seems that's all I do. Ever since I've stumbled upon typology. Sometimes, it feels like it's just been a fucking curse.

So yeah, maybe I am MBTI INFP with a strong Ti role. That would make sense. Having demonstrative Ni does make sense as well, which may be why I kept think I was Ni base. Maybe though, that socionics and mbti is just complete bullshit and we're putting ourselves into boxes we don't need to.
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written by Amber:
for your record, i am mbti infj and we're not one and the same type. not that i give too much credit to what personality profiles say ...but technically we use different IEs to process things. You are attempting to change my perspective/interpretation of what happened (Ne), while i tell you that i already know too much about your motivations and intentions.

but you seem to want classic argumentation, so here it is: there were a bunch of ppl in your typing thread who were responding to your *own* demands of being typed (see pigeonholing) and all were suggesting kind of similar things. Out of everyone there your mind got stuck on me for some reason. Now you use your feelings of "frustration" to justify the fact that you publicly depicted me in creepily negative and insulting imagery. Check your subconscious a bit please before trying to change my mind.

i don't totally dislike chatting with you, but it seems you underestimate me.
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written by Jimmers:
Check my subconscious? What a bunch of psychobabbling bullshit. The difference between you and I are likely due to your preference for making things personal, where I am trying to do the opposite. I am trying to be reasonable. I expect people to listen to reason. This is classic LII. I am also slightly more limbic than calm, according to SLOAN.

My apologies, my email forwarded before I was done.

I often condemn typology because it is unscientific and I am very skeptical of VI. I see it all of the time, where people get typed from very little information. While it may be a useful tool, it should only be used in context with the big personality picture.

You often seem very personal and unreasonable in that you don't go by anything other than vibes, which is something I never go by. I also don't think that socionics or MBTI is true to begin with. They have severe theoretical limitations in what it can describe about people. To begin with, can everyone really be placed into 16 personality types? What about the fact that most people type somewhere in the middle of dichotomies? This is extremely important. That means that most of the people that are typed quickly, based on an easily recognizable preference for own trait over another, is much less common than one that sits somewhere in the middle. This implies that most people cannot be placed into 16 types. There is nothing in the scientific community that suggests that there is such a thing as a base function.

Some of it can be applied to me. I mean, after all I do have preferences, but I don't accept that typing someone is easy, and most certainly cannot be done of a photograph or ten minute video. Jung himself stated that typing oneself is likely to take years. It really takes knowing your own thought processes, how they work in different situations. This is no easy task. So when I see people, like you, claiming to know the inner motivations of someone else, all I see is the bastardization of psychology. This is when I call bullshit.

I am on this site to see if any of the claims socionics makes is true, and if they are, what are its limitations, while learning a bit about myself and maybe make a few friends. I am not at all interesting in finding some amorphic inner self.
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written by Amber:
Jimmers,

1.how old are you and how many kids did you say you have? what was your training btw? how come my taste in art appears more sophisticated and refined than yours, although I'm only into literature professionally? why have we NEVER actually talked about art? i've never seen you posting about art... you started talking about "the sublime", posted some stuff that had nothing to do with this aesthetic category (in Kant's terms or otherwise) and soon it all degenerated for some reasons. how strange.

2. when was the last time you had oral sex with your wife? now really.

3. you are FiNe and unless you stop lying you won't have a decent "reasonable" conversation with me. I'm nauseated by whatever is far from the truth. you are trying to use "Amber" as some narcissistic support to feel a bit more "T" or "Se" or whatever .... that's disgusting. write back when you're free from any competitive mindset and you can accept who you are. you are trying to use multiple typology to compensate for your weak logic. all your message was about how your Logic is actually super-strong. I would have liked to chat about your job or art instead.
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written by Jimmers
I'm trying to tell you. I use Fi in a neurotic fashion. This is something that is immediately relevant to our discussion. The more someone says that I am Fi dominant, the more I resist being recognized for Fi being a strength, which is classic Role. It is something I don't want to be recognized for. My ego likes solving problems and being recognized for my ability to do so. The excess personal and emotional demands make me more neurotic. As long as they aren't excessive, I'm alright.

My "weak" logic? I don't even know what that means. It sounds denigrating though. I argue with doctors and nurses all of the time if there is something I don't want to do, but mostly if what I don't want to do doesn't make sense. I use subjective logic.

This is why typology is largely bullshit. Ti is subjective logic, right? Like the Fi user, it is often not visible because it is an introverted function. I have very little patience writing out all the little inconsistencies and contradictions I notice with socionics, or having to explain why it is unscientific, especially since criticizing socionics on this site is something that is futile.

Talk about hidden agendas. Why are you so hung up on me personally? Why are you so committed with me being FiNe? It sounds like you're more concerned with being right. I rarely see you retract anything you state. Will you not stop until I lay down like a dog and submit to your typings?

In response to your other questions:

1) I am 34, have two girls, 8 and 4 years old. What do you want to know about my training? My idea of sublime is more along the lines of Edmund Burke, who stated “Whatever is fitted in any sort to excite the ideas of pain, and danger, that is to say, whatever is in any sort terrible, or is conversant about terrible objects, or operates in a manner analogous to terror, is a source of the sublime; that is, it is productive of the strongest emotion which the mind is capable of feeling .... When danger or pain press too nearly, they are incapable of giving any delight, and [yet] with certain modifications, they may be, and they are delightful, as we every day experience.”
― Edmund Burke, A Philosophical Enquiry into the Origin of our Ideas of the Sublime and Beautiful
I didn't stop posting for any particular reason other than it has escaped my attention. I don't post my art because the only thing I draw anymore are portraits, which are too personal. I tend to not discuss art because I am more scientific and often don't understand the point of abstract art. I like what I find to be aesthetically pleasing art and I'm into classical realism, Renaissance and Classic Greek art. This is where I can say I'm influenced by Plato's forms, which he himself became skeptical of later in life. I love art that is transcendental and soulful in nature. When I draw people, I try to draw their soul, even though I'm not sure if souls even exist.

2) I went down on her 2-3 months ago and would do so everyday if I had the chance. We are tired parents.

3)That's odd, because I often think that most people on this site aren't interested in truth.
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written by Amber

I guess I exaggerated in my "Negativism" when replying to your long message.

The point was that I don't see how you could be LII or have a strong Ti role. You would have to be far more boring and sterile. I've never heard any LII talk about colorful personalized experiences like you do.

I was actually curious about the reasons why you chose Science instead of Art on the long run and what you like about analyzing bodily tissues or fluids as a medical technologist, but I guess I had to get some things out of my system first. It doesn't change what happened on the forum, of course, but that is my idea of authentic communication.

You also assess people via vibes and you wouldn't have written to me if you didn't like the vibe. Can you talk about what is really important to you instead of using typology as a form of intellectual masturbation. I'm not very interested in socionics dichotomies and I don't read ppl using typology in real life.

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written by Jimmers

Good, then why are you reading me though the lens of socionics? I've worked on myself long before I stumbled onto MBTI. The strength of socionics is also its weakness. The fact that people can use all IEs makes for a very muddled theory. How can you tell someone else is using a function and has a preference for that function? As far as I can tell so far, it is entirely subjective. There really isn't a standard, and if anything there exists double standards with regards with some types over other types. The only person who knows their preference is the person being typed, so don't tell me what my preferences are. You have no clue.

For instance, in order to be accepted as an LII, you have to be a stereotypical LII. First, you are expected to display your logic, which is subjective logic to begin with. It's not there is ever really one right way to state something. That is why debates are often endless. The ones with the best displays can self type as Ti dom, anyone that they outwit is not. What is even remotely logical about that? Being more intelligent, having better reasoning skills than someone else on the forum does not mean that those with the lesser skills are not the same type. Many LII perpetuate their own stereotype, to such an extent that any one who dare think they are LII and demonstrates anything but strict logic cannot be LII. Once you show any emotion, forget about it. Even though LIIs will tell you themselves that emotions and ethic don't necessarily go hand-in-hand. Logic is learned through education, which is why it is taught in school. Those who have studied, actually studied formal logic, will be the most logical. Just because I haven't studied it doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning how to better at it, or that I don't use subjective logic as a base.

Now what does it take to be labelled EII? Well, not very much. Do you like people? Do you feel emotion? Do you like art? Are you nice to people? Do you doubt your type? Do you change your type? The range is so wide that anyone that doesn't fit into any of the other categories can easily be worded to fit into FiNe. This is a double standard. One the one hand, with LIIs you have one requirement: Display pretentious formal logic abilities. On the other hand is EIIs, which doesn't require much of anything to be typed as one, since everyone knows that EII can never figure out their type anyways.

My identity revolves around being a freethinker. I don't view myself as any particular type. Because I'm a freethinker, I'm not going to dismiss socionics in its entirety because there is some truth to it. But, I'm not going to accept it as truth either. In actuality, I'm not arguing for being LII as much as I am for arguing against EII because I am interested in Truth, whatever that may be.

But socionics aside, art is more a tie to my past than something that presently captures my interest. I'm disappointed in myself for not sticking with it like I thought I would, but I've become way more interested in abstract theories. I would like to get back into it some day, but only time will tell.

I went into medical technology so I could have income to pay off my student loans. I didn't really know that I would have to deal with a chaotic schedule for so long and that I would be dealing with difficult people directly when I signed up. I really just wanted to look at cells under a microscope and live a simple life, giving myself lots of free time to pursue my various interests. At first I wanted to be a doctor, but it wasn't something that I was driven to be. My grades sucked too. I loved taking college classes for the sake of learning and not for my GPA. I've always just wanted to learn and know things. Because my grades were low, the options for grad school were limited, and I would've preferred going to research, but the pay was really low, which wouldn't have helped my loan payments any. I was quite interested in stem cell research, but I was also very interested in immunological research.

In my current job, I am supervisor of the chemistry department, so I oversee calibrations, quality control, inventory, maintenance, correlations, and training. I am also a generalist, so I work in hematology, blood bank, and urinalysis. One of my stressors at work is having to draw blood, which I would rather not do. I would much rather focus on impersonal side of the job. But, sometimes I do like to volunteer to draw blood. I just don't like having to be forced to do it. One of my goals is to get out my current lab and specialize in either cytogenetics or flow cytometry. That way I can focus on mastering a specialty that I find interesting and not have direct patient contact or work odd hours that place great stress on my family and myself. That is a few years down the road though.