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    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Man, I've been going down some really strange rabbit holes lately.




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    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    Soon...


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    Moderator xerx's Avatar
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    I'm reading "I'll Burn That Bridge When I Get To It" by Norman Finkelstein. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/86496466

    He's on the political left, but he has some harsh things to say about cancel culture, wokeness and (especially) Barack Obama. He argues that wokeness / identity politics has become part of the Democratic party's electoral strategy, which, although having had its origins in a sincere desire to correct historical injustices, was instrumentalised by the party establishment in order to appeal to (or manufacture) a new Democratic base — with cancellation being a crucial tool used to achieve that affect — as the Democratic party has more or less abandoned the White working class. He also argues that wokeness has been exploited by some leading woke figures in order to make money, by celebrity intellectuals who sell woke books and charge tens of thousands of dollars to give speeches.

    Unrealistic causes like 'abolishing prisons' have been adopted by liberal elites because they have no chance of ever happening and will never threaten the existing system. Blaming all 'White men' for social oppression unfairly (or, rather, strategically) lumps working class men and billionaires in the same category. And while it's very fair to say that identity politics has something important to say about certain forms of structural oppression, it can be used, and is being used, to completely displace class politics. Amazon's race and gender inclusivity workshops are an example of how political theater can be used to direct attention away from actual economic inclusivity.



    As for my opinion, I agree with a lot of what he says. One commonplace narrative is that wokeness is mainly the result of an overly protected younger generation of teenagers / twenty-somethings (and there is obviously something there to seriously consider — it may even be, and probably is, the result of multiple causes, which I'll leave to future socioligists to work out), but what's lost is how wokeness (and, in fact, any ideology and any religion that gives the outward impression of being sincere) can be deployed cynically and opportunistically for pure political or financial gain (in this case, by the older generation).

    I can't go through everything he says, it's better to read the book or watch his interviews. I'm posting this because I believe that it's important to hear dissenting voices, especially in relation to current politics. I also really support the worker's movement and don't want to see it sabotaged, and if this book shines a light on even marginal threats to economic rights, then it has done its job.

    By the way, I'm not a fan of prominent anti-woke figures like Jordan Peterson and his ilk; I don't believe that they truly support freedom of speech. I'm not posting this as some kind of declaration of conversion to that side of the political spectrum, so don't bother thinking that.



    RE. abortion: I thought that he presented an interesting argument against it; mainly, that when it comes to the rights extended towards life, the arc of history has bended towards the expansion of the definition of personhood (e.g. women and slaves, and, increasingly, sapient animals like dolphins). History hasn't always been on the side of progressives — for instance, it was early 20th century progressives who supported eugenics, which was mainly opposed by Catholics and subsequently discredited (although the idea seems to be gaining ground again).



    FWIW, if you support Ukraine or take a hard-line stance in support of transgender issues, you definitely won't like what he says about either. He is also well-known for being one of the harshest critics of Israel and is quite blunt and unapologetic about that. If you align with the American liberal establishment, you probably won't like him very much (he'd probably see that as a compliment).
    Last edited by xerx; 06-23-2023 at 03:02 AM. Reason: typo fixed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    some book
    Have you read the book I snitch like a pro?

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    Honorary Ballsack
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Let the Dead Bury Their Dead by Randall Kenan
    The White Mountains by John Christopher

    Reading "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy... don't really know what's going on yet, but it has this sort of postapocalyptic feel, which is exciting
    Loved The Road. Enjoy!
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    ☁ ☁ ☁ ☁ ☁ Birdie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Cool Any other end-of-the-world/apocalypse/dystopian suggestions?

    eta @Jimmers

    If you havent already you should read the MaddAddam trilogy by Margaret Atwood.
    I love this series. It is end of the world, dystopian, etc...

    The second novel in the series, The Year of the Flood, is the best imo.

    Also, if you cry when reading books, you will definitely cry when reading this series.



    In other news I am currently reading a book entitled Boy, Snow, Bird. I am on page 121 and so far it is pretty good. The character development is really starting to come along. I love the guarded nature of the main character. In many ways she reminds me of myself.
    Everything interests me but nothing holds me.

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    Honorary Ballsack
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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    Alright. I finished In the Shadow of Blackbirds. 5 stars. Really great book. I liked it so much I'm now reading The Cure for Dreaming by Cat Winters, and so far I like it a lot, too. Books I'm thinking of reading next...I was thinking either Neil Gaimans American Gods, or Daphne Du Mauriers My Cousin Rachel. I must stay off the internet and fill my free time with reading. I have a goodreads reading goal to meet and I have 32 more books to go till January 1st... I'm taking this very seriously

    I'm also in the middle of reading my kids Gregor the Overlander by Suzanne Collins. It's ok. I have The House with a Clock in its Walls by Lewis Barnavelt on hold for when we are finished with Gregor the Overlander. I think it sounds pretty awesome. I also have Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark (Collected by American Folklore) by Alvin Schwartz to start after that is done. They both got pretty good reviews, so... (Is obviously ready for Halloween )
    Awesome. I started American Gods, but had to take a break to read A Storm of Swords. I will make my way back to it though. I also read Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House. I thought it was really good. Much better than the movie, as is usually the case. Glad to meet a fellow horror fan!
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

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    24.7% THC bgbg's Avatar
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    i'm reading The Stand for my third time, loving the ominous creep of the superflu through the first section of the book (and savoring the foreshadowing of things to come).

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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    I started on Stephen Kings Salems Lot. Took me a while to get into. I noticed it takes me a while to get into any Stephen King book. Like at least 60 pages. But I usually start appreciating them half way through. 11/22/63 and It were both enormous books, and anyone who can write a book in which I read a book that long is seriously talented, me thinks. I think he just takes his time in setting things up, maybe that's what it is. Now I'm going to have to read The Stand, too, since @bgdjf brought it up. I keep hearing good things about it!
    And Hearts in Atlantis! Then The Dark Tower. If you miss any of the characters.

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    24.7% THC bgbg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    I started on Stephen Kings Salems Lot. Took me a while to get into. I noticed it takes me a while to get into any Stephen King book. Like at least 60 pages. But I usually start appreciating them half way through. 11/22/63 and It were both enormous books, and anyone who can write a book in which I read a book that long is seriously talented, me thinks. I think he just takes his time in setting things up, maybe that's what it is. Now I'm going to have to read The Stand, too, since @bgdjf brought it up. I keep hearing good things about it!
    11/22/63 i had a bit of a slog to get through, i enjoyed it in the end but it never truly grabbed me like The Stand (especially) and The Dark Tower did.
    Last edited by bgbg; 09-20-2017 at 07:57 PM.

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    Subthigh Socionics Is A Cult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    I finally finished Mary Shelley's Frankenstein yesterday. I gave it 5/5. I really liked it, but thinking about the classic Frankenstein movie, I'm really glad they made Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, because I feel like it captures the books atmosphere perfectly and was much closer to the book. I can't even look at the classic the same again because I feel like they really butchered Frankenstein's monster. It still has a sentimental and nostalgic appeal, but I feel like they really just didn't do it justice. I'm kind of disturbed about it after reading the book. It seemed more like a shallow rendition that doesn't capture the complexity of Frankenstein's monster. Kind of insulting. Evidently Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein at the age of 18. I think that is really incredible. She was with Lord Byron, Pery Shelley, and a few others at the time, and they were bored because of the weather, and Byron challenged that they all write a ghost story.
    I liked The Last Man by her also, although this seems to be an atypical view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    I finished The Secret History today and I'm still reeling. I'm in love. I'm stunned. I'm mind blown. I think I adore Donna Tartt. One of my new favorite books.


    The beginning, I thought was wonderful, and then the second part, I started reading and couldn't stop and I was dying with anticipation, and then one part, I was so overcome with embarrassment I couldn't read, I covered my shirt over my head, and I was like oh no, I can't watch this go down. And now I'm just stunned, I'm sad, I'm nostalgic. And it was horrible and beautiful and intense and I just loved it.


    I need to find someone else that has read it that loves it to gush about it with. God. I don't think I know anyone that likes this kind of stuff irl.
    https://community.qvc.com/t5/Book-Cl...t/td-p/3434898 ? .... except the conversation's a little old.

    A recent one: https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/what_we...ut-time-travel mumsnet haha, no idea if the conversation is indepth at all.

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