here is another example of your dishonesty. nobody even came close to implying this. your opinion counts for absolutely nothing because you are deliberately misleading.Originally Posted by siuntal
Guys calm down.
Let's all be friends.
And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.
this made me think of a new version of that xkcd comic, where instead it says "SOMEONE IS CALCULATINGLY FRAUDULENT ON THE INTERNET!!"
welcome to the ranks of us nerds lungs
I am not being dishonest, simply pointing out that it isn't as black-and-white as you made it out to be.
If there is any dishonesty present, take a look at yourself, sitting on this forum 10/7 or perhaps even more since you're here any time I log on, constantly making some new threads about some ephemeral topics like "how do you read poetry", over-developing your virtual life at expense of your real life, and after all that trying to persuade yourself and others that you are Se-creative. Get real.
and statements like these make it difficult to see you as anything else but a prissy EII who is now stomping her feet and making up false accusations because someone, me in this case, has dared to disagree with her self-typing
If anyone is wondering at lung's responses it's because I continue to type her with her old self-typing of EII, and don't agree with ESI typing for her, which apparently she explained to herself by imagining that I am trying to deceive her for some inexplicable reason.
i never even implied it was black and white. you're making stuff up again.
poking holes in socionics is something that is a major part of my presence here.
you're saying i'm being over-simplistic and then you go on to say i can't be se creative because i'm on the forum too much and i talk about poetry.
this doesn't even make any sense.
i don't think you're just trying to decieve me. i think you're deceptive in general. you have a habit of putting words in people's mouths and using little parlor tricks like attributing functions to instinct stackings in order to get your way. its transparent and gross.
Lol I can be pretty dorky but dolphin tells me that internet Gilly translates unexpectedly well to RL Gilly so I guess what you see is what you get ^_^
Aqua seems less dorky than me, to me at least...I do think we are pretty similar overall though. We definitely seem to hold very similar views on many things, and I can see myself behaving and reacting similarly to him in a variety of situations. I think he is quite likely a 3w4 sx/so despite appearing to be rather stereotypically 7w8.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
get over yourself.
Sorry fenGuys calm down.
Let's all be friends.I cannot be friendly with someone who is deliberately making false allegations concerning me, attributing motives to me that don’t exist, misrepresenting me, and calling me “calculatingly fraudulent” without a shred of evidence.
You are delusional lungs. I have put in many hours translating profiles and articles from Russian to English so that you and other people on this forum could have accurate information on socionics topics, and after that you accuse me of being deceptive? Your accusations aren’t even making any sense. The only dishonest person here is you. In order to assert your ESI typing it is evident that you will stoop as low as to spin lies about me. Sad really.i don't think you're just trying to decieve me. i think you're deceptive in general. you have a habit of putting words in people's mouths and using little parlor tricks like attributing functions to instinct stackings in order to get your way. its transparent and gross.
You did. Read up. You implied that posivitist type would contradict you poking holes in socionics, to which I replied that no, if you pay attention to what’s going on this forum practically everyone, positivists and negativists, will bash socionics. It doesn’t prove anything any way since it’s just a popular pastime around this place.
I haven’t said you are being “overly simplistic”, don’t put words in my mouth.you're saying i'm being over-simplistic and then you go on to say i can't be se creative because i'm on the forum too much and i talk about poetry.
I’ve had several ESI girlfriend and one thing that stands out with them in comparison to EIIs is that they will often ask me to go out and engage in some real activities with some concrete goals. It can be as simple as riding bikes around town, going shopping, going to a rave, exploring new parts of town, etc. Real activities, real actions, real results, that is what ESIs value, and it’s something that is thoroughly lacking in your own attitude. You are evidently more interested in sitting here engaging in internet battles over your self-typing.
What way? I'm typing Aqua into a different quadra ffs. If I wanted to have my way I would drag him into Beta as my dual, since he is an intelligent, witty, attractive guy. You are not making any sense.... in order to get your way.
Labster voted you as ESI in the last typing poll you've made. You are twisting facts in a futile attempt to justify yourself. You are simply shameless aren’t you.
I happen to think she is ESI, I actually think lungs is generally engaged in RL activity when she's posting as she's on her phone.
I think lungs is a inert vs contact subtype. This meansand
are going to be more pronounced.
This would explain her sometimes (neurotic) focus on these abstract matters.
I have had a lot of interaction with a EII who is very active in life. Yoga, shopping, kids to school, PTA, dinner, soccer practice etc,etc,etc. I think EII and ESI can have this sort of hectic(but kinda of blah) lifestyle which can seem a bit too much. But it's a lot of mundane activity which are very basic and often a bit boring.
translating type descriptions has nothing to do with being honest or dishonest. it is dishonest of you to imply that it does.
i have already made it clear that it doesn't have to do with defending my self-typing. there are a few other people here type me something other than ESI (otoh, invisiblejim, thehotelambush, ineffable, jwc3) and i do not consider them to be liars. i only consider you dishonest because you are and if it was simply because of the way you type me, then it would not make sense that i would not think similarly about those people. i can't make this any clearer. and the fact that i've already stressed this point and you continue to evade it is yet another example of you being a liar.
i was bringing up that it is a major part of my presence and it is the main thing several people associate with me.
just because other people do it and its a "past time" doesn't negate the fact that i do it because there are several other people who don't do it, and discussing socionics without poking holes in it is also a popular past time. along with not discussing socionics at all.
i do ask people to do things. i do go out with people. i'm sure eii's do, too, though, so it feels silly to use it as an argument. a good deal of my conversations in chat revolve around things that i've been doing in real life. maybe this is why people who actually know me and talk to me regularly and have one and one conversations with me and see me in tinychat, etc, type me esi. i also do spend a lot of time on the forum but i really don't think this is type related anyway. i mean you type absurd lse and hypothetically he should be out and about being si-ej. so this is silly and probably more about trying to make a low blow about me being a nerd or something than anything else.
labster and i have conversations outside of forum posts. sometimes things come up outside of forum posts that you might not know about. there's chatbox, tinychat, IM, texting, etc. you are very confident about your typing of me considering you are someone i talk to less than most people here who do type me esi.
kassie, I don't think siuntal has lied about you, she's just made some observations.
If she hasn't lied about you, how can she be dishonest?
It's more accurate to perhaps say that siuntal is misinformed about you or do not know you enough.
Fight.
Lungs was talking about, hmm, Santa Claus, hkkmr. Not siuntal.
That's the spirit. Do not go Gamma. People die there. Like in a hospital or get a good night's sleep in my case. Anyway, point still stands. Funny though seeing Aquagraph tossed around quadras like a rag doll.
I was mostly responding to her accusations. If some type her as EII and others as ESI due to whatever observations they've made, that's fine, but I am not going to take kindly to her publicly and falsely accusing me of lying.
To the contrary, if you want to be dishonest it is better to keep information away from others as that would allow for most freedom to craft whatever arguments are most convenient to yourself. What I've been doing for the past year is the opposite of that – bringing more information to this forum, and making citations from these articles in discussions and typing threads, demonstrating that this information comes directly from Russian socionics publications, as you can see I've done in my reply to Gilly.
Yet you completely ignore this and stubbornly insist that I am making stuff up. Your whole mindset is just so bizarre - you manage to block out parts of reality from your awareness in order to believe whatever you want to believe. Can you explain yourself to me?
Your previous replies demonstrate the opposite. My first post in this thread was about Aqua's typing. I made no mention of your type, yet you immediately jumped on it to point out how you think it contradicts my typing of you as a positivist. You were the first to bring your typing into this, and now you’re trying to pull a 180 and claim the opposite.i have already made it clear that it doesn't have to do with defending my self-typing.
You have been trying really hard in this thread to make up slander against me. If it’s not your self-typing then there is something else that is motivating this spitefulness. What is it kassie?
Well all you’ve done so far is throw around accusations never showing any evidence of these supposed malicious, calculating intents and desires “to have things my way”. So far I’ve disproven every allegation that you’ve contrived. You’re either misinformed about me, which would make sense since you have never interacted with me, or you’re deluded, or have some other motivations to concoct this slander.there are a few other people here type me something other than ESI (otoh, invisiblejim, thehotelambush, ineffable, jwc3) and i do not consider them to be liars. i only consider you dishonest because you are and if it was simply because of the way you type me, then it would not make sense that i would not think similarly about those people. i can't make this any clearer. and the fact that i've already stressed this point and you continue to evade it is yet another example of you being a liar.
And I’ve pointed out that this doesn’t prove anything either way since both negativist and positivist types have been known to do this. There are people of positivist types, like ambivalent existence (ILE), who have simply abandoned socionics finding it too flawed to continue with it. You've got major presence - they got major absence.i was bringing up that it is a major part of my presence and it is the main thing several people associate with me. just because other people do it and its a "past time" doesn't negate the fact that i do it because there are several other people who don't do it, and discussing socionics without poking holes in it is also a popular past time. along with not discussing socionics at all.
Those kinds of things just don't seem to be priorities for you, and I am not the only one who has noticed it, however, this is not the main reason that I type you as EII.i do ask people to do things. i do go out with people. i'm sure eii's do, too, though, so it feels silly to use it as an argument. a good deal of my conversations in chat revolve around things that i've been doing in real life. maybe this is why people who actually know me and talk to me regularly and have one and one conversations with me and see me in tinychat, etc, type me esi. i also do spend a lot of time on the forum but i really don't think this is type related anyway. i mean you type absurd lse and hypothetically he should be out and about being si-ej. so this is silly and probably more about trying to make a low blow about me being a nerd or something than anything else.
My main reasons are quotes like these. This is from Tao Te Ching typing thread where you made a comment how that D-A writing had a potent relaxing effect on you:
“introverted irrational + dialectical algorithmic = ili or sei
I only just started reading it. I had it saved in my bookmarks for awhile forgotten about. yesterday I was stressed out over shit in my life and happened to click on it and I swear my blood pressure dropped after five minutes. I don't remember text ever having such an immediate effect on my mood.”
Assuming EII typing for you, the above makes a lot of sense, since D-A belongs to type LSE and you have attested how this expression style had such a strong effect on your mood. You’ve also commented in some other place, don’t remember where now, that you find yourself taking well to D-A cog-style. Well, D-A is dual to C-D and C-D belongs to type EII.
Of course at this point you're going to try to assert I'm disingenuous in my typings with twice the determination.
So it’s perfectly fine for you to accuse someone you don’t know and never interacted with of lying, but it’s not ok to decide on your socionics type? You hypocrite.labster and i have conversations outside of forum posts. sometimes things come up outside of forum posts that you might not know about. there's chatbox, tinychat, IM, texting, etc. you are very confident about your typing of me considering you are someone i talk to less than most people here who do type me esi.
You don't need to know someone to be able to competently type them, just take a look at the Famous People forum. Socionics is a simple and crude typology - there are three dichotomies, T-F, N-S, E-I, and all you're doing is trying to figure out where someone is along these dichotomies. This can be done by reading the person's posts and seeing what attitudes they express. I’ve seen your posts a plenty to decide on Ne-INFj.
Maybe it's aMy guess is some interaction or something she has read by you has colored this interaction personally, and this thread has set this off, and this probably has nothing to do with Aqua's type. It's interesting result tho.
I think it's easy to see that lungs is interested in
IMO, when lungs approach things, she takes aapproach, it's very straightforward, personal and often aggressive. Imo, it's why very quickly she started with aggressive personal language towards you.
May be, since she isn't really disclosing why she thinks what she thinks but keeps on repeating the same thing. If I'm right with her EII typing it may be due to us being quasi-identicals; she seems to be misinterpreting almost everything I say.Maybe it's a
I have to run now, will try to reply to the rest later.
you've left out this sentence from the part you quoted:
so predictable ^^
Maybe you're SEI...
Jk, I don't think there would be a problem with a ESI and a IEI having difficulty communicating. As the beneficiary a lot of what you say is going to be ignored by her.
That's a really narrow view of Fi man. By my observations, your SEI-Fe duals are more likely to do that, whereas myself (I am serious about ESI), am uncomfortable doing that and only do that with the purpose of clarifying and re conciliating. Why would an Fi type seem to enjoy expressing and focusing their mind on so much negative energy? And yes, I'm serious here. We probably disagree on theory, but I'd still like to hear what you think about this, if you're up for it.Maybe it's a
It's just a function, don't bring types into it. But she went personal with siuntal in a non-personal discussion. And no, SEI's don't do personal in public all that much, in private sure, but in public they're more diplomatic and maybe a bit wishy washy. Anyone can focus on negative things if they happen to be sad or negative because of a life situation. Everyone can be depressed.
I've found that Fi polr types do this a lot, much more than Fi types anyway. I usually want to discuss negatively coloured / personal things in private, and often find myself in uncomfortable situations where somebody with weak Fi starts that kind of topics when there are other people around.
Good point. Thanks.
Not what I'm getting at. What I take seriously is that she seems nice enough and generally minds her own business yet you ruthlessly lay into her here and define the terms of the attack such that anyone who doesn't agree she deserves it is stupid. I don't care about your criticisms of her nor about her nor your opinions on socionics. I do care about you attacking her and falling deeper and deeper into illogic in order to justify it.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
lungs and siuntal, less fighting, more talking about me.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
Derailed the thread, since Aqua needs more attention and this is taking away from it.
@siuntal
I don't want to get involved in the disagreement, but I thought it would be interesting to note that I think ESI or LSI is a suitable typing for lungs and why.
Although it may not be clear in this medium, reviewing her signature reveals several sources based on continuous themes and imagery. Her argument style also latches onto a singular idea and notion without considering the contradictions, it's a notable blind spot and I see it due to my own rationale and you see it also.
In argument style, I would expect a EII to spout much more random and act much more 'aggressed/hurt' when confronted.
Last edited by InvisibleJim; 09-14-2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: grammar/smelling/spelling
It's a full-fledged typing thread now, so feel free to post your reasoning and observations.
If you take a look at other Ne-egos on this forum and people who are typed as EII, Maritsa, Minde, Agarina, Eunice, they all show a degree of consistency in their interests, and in the personas that they present on this forum. That would expected from anyone who has a stable personality.
Not considering contradictions and single-course thinking are both attributed to Positivist, Process types in socionics theory, among which are EII and LSI. The fact that lungs’ thinking pulls like a train only in one direction doesn't support her self-typing of ESI.
From: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko
C-D cognitive style: ILE, SEE, LSI, EII: This is a precise, single-course style of thinking, that is also called formal logic, deductive-axiomatic logic.
H-P cognitive style: LII, SLE, ESI, IEE. This is imprecise, multi-perspective thinking. It is mosaic-like. It works according to the principle of a hologram. ... By mentally superimposing multiple projections of the same object, Holographists reach a holistic view. To do this, they look at the image and select a desired angle of examination. Holographic cognition often utilizes the grammatical conjunctives: "or-or", "either-or", "on the one hand, on the other hand". It actively uses the principle of perspective; unrestricted choice in point of view. The holographic approach is a progressive approximation towards the purpose, or away from it, accompanied by changes of perspective. The holographic process is carried out as if calibrating focus.
My attempts to explore socionics from another point of view, that also incorporates enneagram and instinctual stackings, are greeted with distrust and hostility from lungs. When I point out how much of an overlap exists between socionics and enneagram traits, she discounts it as a trick: “and using little parlor tricks like attributing functions to instinct stackings in order to get your way. its transparent and gross.” She shows herself incapable of itegrating multiple perspectives on the topic as you would expect from an H-P type like ESI. Her thinking possesses the linearity and tints of fundamentalism that, in its aspects, reminds me of Marie’s and Maritsa’s treatment of the subject. I see this as fundamentalism because she seems to hold it against me that I try to bring new information into the theory by incorporating enneagram and variants.
So this observation that you've mentioned and that I’ve also noticed in my interaction with her, supports EII and LSI typings, but discounts ESI as a possibility.
I find that she is way more random than some of the EIIs here. For example in a thread that Galen posted recently on intertype relations she started bringing up how socionics is like astrology, then changed to religion and tried comparing socionics to Christianity. She draws very far-fetched connections and has problems keeping on the topic, and she derails threads in this manner, at times bombing them with stuff that has nothing to do with the subject being discussed, like you can see happened with Aqua’s typing thread. She is 'conceptually divergent' in discussions.
Also, if you have ever had the chance to inspect the Fi-Ne sections on other typology forums like PerC, you’ve probably seen how their inhabitants will just randomly create new threads on whatever topic happened to cross their minds that they wish to explore. For this reason, the Fi-Ne subforums have always been the most active with the fasted flowing discussions. If you take a look at lungs’ posting history, her behavior is identical – she’ll make posts on half a dozen different topics in the course of the same day, often creating some random threads that don’t have much of a point to them.
Drop the sham, lungs. This isn't about my typing arguments.
This stats page shows that my typings are 80-90% correspondent to those of most other people on here. This means that 8-9 out of 10 times I type someone same as everyone else. Yet, from all these people, you choose to single me out and accuse me of being dishonest with how I type. It’s obvious that the typing isn't the real issue here, but a convenient veil for your personal grudge against me and quite possibly jealousy. I am thankful to COMFINED for replying and telling her story about how you bullied her out of irc and drove her away from her friends there. It has shed some light on these personal attacks against me, since it was obvious there was something else driving you that you weren’t willing to disclose.
Last edited by silke; 09-15-2012 at 11:23 AM.
I've got to say, trying to cross enneagram with anything tends to weaken it. Get 9 people, type them individually as 9 types. Switch out Enneagram 2 of the group, watch as all the typings change.
On the other hand, Lungs doesn't make the same random posts you see from ENFP style forums. e.g. 'Bedrooms!' she is actually guarded around personal matters rather than sharing. There's something missing in your analysis. She has the beta flavour, not the delta.
My typing of Lungs was LSI, but I also admit that I am not in full possession of all of the facts therefore I find ESI a suitable alternative.
Of course they're going to change and they do "change" for various reasons, for example, person A being of type A, had a change of heart or something and now runs around as person B of type B. To achieve full homeostasis Enneagram has to be taken into account and apparently, it has been, which produces a change as well, a new person. A metamorphosis takes place, I mean four cycles of life that a butterfly undergoes to become a butterfly.
It is damn easy but I take most of yous posting on here have a crappy moth's vision and are attracted to bright lights even though it is going to lead to temporary blindness after it is gone which means you're going to have to be there all the time. Not to mention other brighter lights that are going to be around - they're going to lead to confusion as well.
What I am saying is, Enneagram is going to be adjusted and adjusted again to fit the demands rendering it not very user friendly, for it is going to leave a mess. Wanting to go literal with Sociotype-Enneagram, means destroying half of user self-typings, that is straightening them out.
Which means, use it on your own risk.
Socionics, hah.
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