Ryu/UDP's type

[UDP]

It sure is a good thing those ESEs are a glutton for punishment I will just have to find one that is just as demanding as I am, somewhat... or at least does not mind some possessiveness. I think I am similar to LSIs in that way.

DIAD: KOMMUNIKATOR - THE ANALYST


KOMMUNIKATOR

Characteristic for it a combination of kinds of love - Mania and Eros. As well as the INTERMEDIARY, this type of the person is created for enthusiastic, but not idealistic, and, more likely, carnal love. It is cheerful, optimistical also much can bear from object of the feelings. Despite of emotsionalnost and sensitivity, at it imperous enough and strong character. It is easily appeased and forgiving. Therefore ability to adapt and adapt for itself of the partner (even more obstinate, than the INNOVATOR) at it is much more, than at the INTERMEDIARY.

Ah...

To like it and to correspond to its ideal difficultly enough. It very much skryten and not always states the wishes (for example that nobody prevented to live to it how it wants). But it is easily disappointed in the person who does not meet its requirements. Its reckless passion cheerful and persevering duala, capable of many compromises is necessary to keep such clever and serious partner

That sounds like my kind of relationship.

@ MsK - I (we both?) knew I was LII all along, I just wanted to see if anything else was more appealing. As I said, working on Te usage is something I can use, and having an SF dual is something I can also use, as I have no clue whatsoever how to relate to people. I suck badly at it, honestly. NT things, I can handle, and volitional pressure is a fun skill to have learned. So I will settle with being a Ti - LII.

A job well done, MsK.

[mikemex]

Mikemex: Classification systems are imposed to help us understand the elements that we are selecting for; as opposed to being fundamental, all-element-encapturing systems describing the entire picture, right?

There is one question I have though:

Obviously, the more you refine the dichotomies the better the results will be; however, the basic principles work as well with bananas as they do with complicated things such as Fe, Ni, etc.

What's with all the bananas in this thread?

We can open a thread elsewhere if you wish. Let's not disturb the important, universe shaking task of finding UDP's type.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[snegledmaca]

So I will settle with being a Ti - LII.

Glad I'm not a banana.

But it's a pithy sometimes. Don't you think?

[Exodus]

It sure is a good thing those ESEs are a glutton for punishment I will just have to find one that is just as demanding as I am, somewhat... or at least does not mind some possessiveness.

Yeah, there are plenty of anal-retentive ESFj-Fes you would get along with just fine.

[FDG]

Alternately, as an ST myself

It's still problematic for me to see you as an ST. You're all talk no action, the exact opposite of every ESTj I know.

[UDP]

Alternately, as an ST myself

It's still problematic for me to see you as an ST. You're all talk no action, the exact opposite of every ESTj I know.

I am all talk and no action - how so? I would like to hear your explanation.

[aut0]

dude you're emo as all hell.

[UDP]

? No.

I am slightly emotionally agitated lately, however. So that is why I am sharper emotionally than normal.

[XoX]

For some reason you just started to remind me of Thunder but I might reverse that later, heh.

[XoX]

For some reason you just started to remind me of Thunder but I might reverse that later, heh.

How so?

ETA: and who? Courage or Ezra?

Courage I don't know why which is the reason I'm likely going to reverse it at some point. I'm not yet sure who Ezra reminds me the most around here.

[eunice]

Courage is probably not an ESTj imo. (I will find specific examples to back up my claim when I have the time.)

On the other hand, I realize that he seems to be (probably unconsciously) finding certain examples to justify motivations and behaviours of the type (first INTj, then ESTj) he is at that moment, rather than been himself. Moreover, he seems to be very excited by the prospect that he is an ESTj and views it as something very special. When I read the INFj descriptions, I didn't have the same response as he did because I'm basically reading about myself and what has been described is nothing new to me. I don't think his liking for INFjs reflects that he is an ESTj either. If so, my appreciation for ENTjs would have made me an ISFj instead.

As for his type, INTj-Ti has always sounded probable, until he decided to question his type.

Someone who has previously been getting INTj in type tests finally decides that he is an ESTj? Even if type tests aren't accurate, I don't think the results will be so far off.

[UDP]

rather than been himself.

You, and everyone else, has absolutely no way to judge what "being myself" is. Why do you pretend to know? You don't live with me.

Someone who has previously been getting INTj in type tests finally decides that he is an ESTj? Even if type tests aren't accurate, I don't think the results will be so far off.

Are you trying to say that I changed my type because of a test result?
Your whole post reeks of not understanding my thread I wrote in what's my type about being ESTj.

[eunice]

rather than been himself.

You, and everyone else, has absolutely no way to judge what "being myself" is. Why do you pretend to know? You don't live with me.

Someone who has previously been getting INTj in type tests finally decides that he is an ESTj? Even if type tests aren't accurate, I don't think the results will be so far off.

Are you trying to say that I changed my type because of a test result?
Your whole post reeks of not understanding my thread I wrote in what's my type about being ESTj.

Is there a need for such a negative reply over a trivial matter like this?

I'm just sharing a personal opinion about my impression of your posts so far. I never say anything about me "knowing" you. I'm just saying that I'm surprised about your transition from INTj to ESTj. You used to share about how "INTj" you were based on your personal experiences and you even come out with facts to substantiate your point. When you finally acknowledged that you are an ESTj, you begin to see things in the "ESTj" way and justify why you are one.

As for your test results, you have misinterpreted my point. I'm basically saying that even though type tests aren't very accurate to a certain extent, it is still rather unlikely for an ESTj to score as an INTj. Just my POV. :wink:

[Ezra]

For some reason you just started to remind me of Thunder but I might reverse that later, heh.

How so?

ETA: and who? Courage or Ezra?

Courage I don't know why which is the reason I'm likely going to reverse it at some point. I'm not yet sure who Ezra reminds me the most around here.

Your dad.

[Ezra]

Courage is probably not an LSE. It's an ideal. That's why he worships it with statements made about the LSE. There is nothing bad about the LSE, because he is it. The thing is, the LSE's flaws are not Courage's. The sooner he realises this the better.

In fact, in many ways, he reminds me of a friend of mine, who liked to pretend that he was something he wasn't. Moments of pretentiousness. He's an IEE.

[UDP]

When you finally acknowledged that you are an ESTj, you begin to see things in the "ESTj" way and justify why you are one.

What else is one going to do? Not justify myself? Should I waver about my type, and never contribute to the forum, because I once mistyped myself?

Is there a need for such a negative reply over a trivial matter like this?

Your calling trivial something that I spent a lot of time and effort on and is a very controversial matter. Just because you present your opinions in a lithe way - that is not going to change my stance on the matter. I would, and have, reacted to everyone who says such things. Just because you see this as a trivial matter doesn't mean I do. It is like you did not take the time to understand my situation, and as such, are just making a general, "well to me it seems like...." statement. And this is my response.


((And if anything were to say that I am not LII, it is living with an ESE room mate. A far, far cry from "duality"...))

[UDP]

Courage is probably not an LSE. It's an ideal. That's why he worships it with statements made about the LSE. There is nothing bad about the LSE, because he is it. The thing is, the LSE's flaws are not Courage's. The sooner he realises this the better.

In fact, in many ways, he reminds me of a friend of mine, who liked to pretend that he was something he wasn't. Moments of pretentiousness. He's an IEE.

You know what? The more you talk about your type, the more people disagree with you. I suppose it is best to just not say anything.
You see my effort to explain how wrong you are as "omg he is trying so hard to be something!".


Instead of what it really is, a care to be accurate about things. Whatever.
You think I'm the same type as McNew?


PS: You know what? It is just better if I totally don't take people seriously when they say things like this. Ezra, what, is basing this off a friend he knows. Eunice is not serious at all in her remarks. Its like you guys are just tossing speculations around haphazardly. "Yeah, he seems to be making a lot of fuss... he must be posing!" You don't know how insulting that is to all the effort I put into everything, so you don't understand what its like when you make such comments that are off the mark. And then when you see me get irritated, that just works in your mind like "Look how hard his is trying to put in this image!". When in reality, it is my extreme frustration for people not going about typing me seriously, and just shooting the bull, saying I could be this or that. So its a matter of respect. If I am the only one taking this seriously, then I suppose it is best to not do anything at all. Once you guys "really get serious", that's fine. But until then, I am not even going to pay attention to people's comments about my type, because almost certainly you have not put as much time into it as I have. And even more so, it seems like people suggest things just to appease their current understanding of socionics - so it is more for there education than mine.

Why I am not ENFp, briefly

NOT EP
NOT NF
NOT ISTp's dual
NOT seeking anyone who fits an ISTp description
NOT creative (??? My god how can you ever call me that?)
NOT, NOT, NOT Irrational! Seriously, that is one of the most apparent things about me, rational and judgmental
NOT infantile
NOT the same type as McNew


If you really understood me, you would easily see how absurd a remark like "oh yeah, you remind me of my friend - you're ENFp" is. Ezra, you're lack of connecting facts with reality reminds me of my INFp friend - so you must be INFp now.


Right?

[rockclimber]

Uey, calm down.

[eunice]

Uey, calm down.

Totally agreed.

[aut0]

Courage is probably not an LSE. It's an ideal. That's why he worships it with statements made about the LSE. There is nothing bad about the LSE, because he is it. The thing is, the LSE's flaws are not Courage's. The sooner he realises this the better.

In fact, in many ways, he reminds me of a friend of mine, who liked to pretend that he was something he wasn't. Moments of pretentiousness. He's an IEE.

Lol? I bet the place where you got IEE from was really dark

I live with an IEE, and he's nothing like UDP. Yes, my roommate's very ethical and has his views of right and wrong, but he also doesn't force his views on other people. The guy I live with has absolutely no trouble making friends with anyone, he could make a rock come alive. He also can't stand consistency in anything, he needs constant change all the time, he can't even eat the same thing for breakfast two days in a row.

I think it's hilarious how UDP claims to be a thinking type, when he can't even see how his own methods of "typing" himself don't make sense.

You completely ignored the logic behind Carla's post, in which she made a very valid point about how you convinced yourself of being an INTJ, and how it's just as likely that you're convincing yourself of being an ESTJ.

What's the probability that every single person here is wrong about you? Compared to you being wrong about yourself? Which do you think is more likely from a statistical standpoint? This is logic, if out of 10 people, 9 people say one way is right, and 1 person says the other way is right, there's a far greater probability that those 9 people are right. There's always a chance that, that one person is right, but it's no where near as likely. You can make an argument saying that, "Well, these are just strangers on the internet, they can't possibly know the real me, since I don't share every single detail about myself". Fair point, but you also can't stop how you naturally come off to people, your posts reek emo to me, and every single thread I read here comes off as you trying so damn hard to convince everyone that you're an ESTJ.

Every time I read one of your posts about how great INFJs are, I'm convinced more and more that you don't know what you're going on about. I lived with my Dual and my Conflictor at the same time last year, dealing with my Conflictor was like driving a car with the parking breaks on, there was resistance in every single thing I had to do with him, I didn't even notice my dual. Dealing with my dual was completely low key, there was no resistance at all, he would ask me a question and my natural way of responding would be exactly what he was looking for and our conversation would end. Every time we did something together it was completely efficient and trouble free. When we would need to do something, I'd tell him what we needed to do and why, I'd tell him what I wanted him to do and then we'd go on and get the job done. No trouble at all.

Dual isn't some magical experience, and you're idolizing something that doesn't exist.

I don't know if anyone else notices it, but whenever you post how great it is be an LSE, or how great EII's are I can actually feel the nails on the chalkboard.

You = emo, you =

Drop your prejudice and go read the ISFJ description.

[UDP]

What's the probability that every single person here is wrong about you? Compared to you being wrong about yourself? Which do you think is more likely from a statistical standpoint? This is logic, if out of 10 people, 9 people say one way is right, and 1 person says the other way is right, there's a far greater probability that those 9 people are right. There's always a chance that, that one person is right, but it's no where near as likely.

Type benchmark project.

You can make an argument saying that, "Well, these are just strangers on the internet, they can't possibly know the real me, since I don't share every single detail about myself". Fair point, but you also can't stop how you naturally come off to people, your posts reek emo to me, and every single thread I read here comes off as you trying so damn hard to convince everyone that you're an ESTJ.

What you don't understand is that I've been posting under a more emotional state than lately due to outside circumstances.

And, you don't know me at all - so your comments are quite superficial. You also don't know about my extended conversations with Carla, and you also are unaware that she is quite certain I am not LII at this time.

By the way, INFps would be much more emo than ISFjs.

Finally, what is most incorrect about your post is that it assumes I have not taken a legitimate interest in socionics, and I am not trying to find my best type. Why would I go through all the effort to consistently lie and put on some image to people. Do you really think I care?


PS: People said the same thing about me being INTj
So what, do you think my posting style is going to change if I were another type?
If I said I was ISTj next, and started talking about the glory of that duality, you'd say the same thing.
This argument is an old hat, and it is more about my posting style than my actual type.

If you think I'm ISFj, make a thread and go through all the effort of proving it yourself.

And, one last thing, don't call me emo. There is a difference between unusually agitated and irritated, and being overly emotional and dramatic.

[aut0]

What's the probability that every single person here is wrong about you? Compared to you being wrong about yourself? Which do you think is more likely from a statistical standpoint? This is logic, if out of 10 people, 9 people say one way is right, and 1 person says the other way is right, there's a far greater probability that those 9 people are right. There's always a chance that, that one person is right, but it's no where near as likely.

Type benchmark project.

You can make an argument saying that, "Well, these are just strangers on the internet, they can't possibly know the real me, since I don't share every single detail about myself". Fair point, but you also can't stop how you naturally come off to people, your posts reek emo to me, and every single thread I read here comes off as you trying so damn hard to convince everyone that you're an ESTJ.

What you don't understand is that I've been posting under a more emotional state than lately due to outside circumstances.

And, you don't know me at all - so your comments are quite superficial. You also don't know about my extended conversations with Carla, and you also are unaware that she is quite certain I am not LII at this time.

By the way, INFps would be much more emo than ISFjs.

Finally, what is most incorrect about your post is that it assumes I have not taken a legitimate interest in socionics, and I am not trying to find my best type. Why would I go through all the effort to consistently lie and put on some image to people. Do you really think I care?


PS: People said the same thing about me being INTj
So what, do you think my posting style is going to change if I were another type?
If I said I was ISTj next, and started talking about the glory of that duality, you'd say the same thing.
This argument is an old hat, and it is more about my posting style than my actual type.

If you think I'm ISFj, make a thread and go through all the effort of proving it yourself.

And, one last thing, don't call me emo. There is a difference between unusually agitated and irritated, and being overly emotional and dramatic.

Read this really slowly because I don't think you can actually see your lack of logic, read what Herzy just pointed out, your posting style has never changed because you were A: Never an INTJ, and B: Never an ESTJ. Your posting style has always been the same because your type has never changed to begin with, you've always been the same emo type since you came here, you just still haven't realized that you're not an ESTJ.

INFPs are much different from ISFJs. There's no point in comparing the two, INFPs aren't emo in the same way you are.

And if you're not emo why are you getting so offended? Call me emo, I'll laugh my ass off, you get offended really easily and your posts show it (Que excuse of you being sick of everyone thinking they know your type)

You want to use the type benchmark as an excuse? Here I'll break down why everyone though you were an INTJ, you were reflecting. Woooohhhh real hard, you read an INTJ description, idolized it, then looked for specific examples to enforce it. Wait why does this sound really familiar? Oh you're doing the same thing as an ESTJ.

That's why people stopped taking your words at face value when you decided you were no longer an INTJ.

Finally, what is most incorrect about your post is that it assumes I have not taken a legitimate interest in socionics, and I am not trying to find my best type. Why would I go through all the effort to consistently lie and put on some image to people. Do you really think I care?

The fact that you aren't a thinking type would be highlighted by this then, wouldn't it? You're trying so damn hard to find your type that you can't even see that all these half-assed arguments don't hold weight and do the complete opposite of showing that you're a thinking type.

At least your on the right path though, maybe in a couple more tries you'll figure it out, or Expat will figure it out for you

[Minde]

Correct me if I'm wrong, aut0, but did you not consider yourself an INTj when you first posted here? And now you think you're... ESTj? Is that accurate?

[UDP]

The fact that you aren't a thinking type would be highlighted by this then, wouldn't it? You're trying so damn hard to find your type that you can't even see that all these half-assed arguments don't hold weight and do the complete opposite of showing that you're a thinking type.

There is no argument - you have your mind set on me being ISFj.

It is just like ****** and me being INFp.

You take my frustration with your lack of argument for being a demonstration of "ethics" (****** thought it was Fe, you now seem to think it is Fi+Se), and use my irritation with you as means to justify ethics.
And once again, you are not listening to me when I say outside factors have made me more irritable than usual.

You are so convinced that you know everything about me that whatever I say, ultimately, must support your means. Sophism (as in, rhetoric just to prove a point, regardless of accuracy)


So, Auto, why don't you make a thread, and list every single reason why I must be ISFj, and not ESTj. Otherwise, you're just jerking off here thinking your right and I'm wrong. When you put in as much time and effort into it as I have, then we can 'discuss' things. You running your mouth is no different than me running my mouth, and a battle of wills is what it is. However, I believe it is fair to say I have spent hours and days more than you determining my type, so, I'll wait for you to catch up if you are serious about me being ISFj. Whenever you are ready you can start - you are the one who wants to prove something.

[aut0]

Correct me if I'm wrong, aut0, but did you not consider yourself an INTj when you first posted here? And now you think you're... ESTj? Is that accurate?

It's perfectly accurate, and I did exactly what UDP is doing now, I took an MBTI test, it said "You're an INTJ, you're incredibly smart, and all these famous people are INTJ too" Would you want to deny that? And I of course wanted to be like all those famous people, and be super smart, and have all these crazy ideas. Except that besides the whole, wanting to be like the famous leaders nothing made sense.

I came in here, and I posted because I read Expat saying Augustus was ENTJ, I thought "Well I think like this man acted, so I must be the same type as him", of course since I was an INTJ he had to be an INTJ also, that was the only logical choice, and I couldn't be ENTJ cause the ENTJ description didn't fit me.

Only problem was, I came in here knowing two shits about socionics, having read no dual descriptions at all, and when I challenged Expat on why I thought Augustus wasn't ENTJ he pointed out exactly why I didn't know two shits about what I was talking about.

So I quit typing and started reading about socionics, I read the dual descriptions and nothing made sense, if ESE was my dual then my mom should've been my dual, she fit the ESFJ description to a tee. Except I didn't deal with her well at all, she annoyed the shit outa me. I thought my ENFJ brother was my semi-dual but it didn't fit the socionics.com description. And the INTP/INTJ relationship description didn't make sense with my dad one bit. (I didn't actually type my parents until after I considered that I might be an LSE, and it explained my relationships with them exactly, especially my INTP dad)

It wasn't until I started reading the quadra descriptions that I started considering anything outside of alpha. But I read through each quadra description, how they interacted, what they liked/disliked, and made what I thought were logical choices.

But I didn't decide I was LSE till a little while ago, and even then I wasn't sure cause every one of UDP's posts annoyed the shit outa me, and I don't hang around anyone like him, so if he was LSE there was no way in hell I was LSE. The only logical choice I had left to be sure whether I was right or wrong was to let other people decide. So I posted my picture, asked for people to VI me, people asked me questions I answered them, and then the general consensus was that I was a delta type te type, and a better chance of being LSE.

The difference between me and him though, is that he completely claims to fall outside the general norms of an LSE, "All LSEs don't need to need to be gear heads, All LSEs don't need to be this" He's a special LSE, one that doesn't need to fit the descriptions of an LSE

Except I'm coordinated, I work with my hands, I do what ST types are stereotyped as doing, so correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm really being honest), how do you make sense of someone who claims to be a type but doesn't fit into what the type generally does?

[UDP]

The difference between me and him though, is that he completely claims to fall outside the general norms of an LSE, "All LSEs don't need to need to be gear heads, All LSEs don't need to be this" He's a special LSE, one that doesn't need to fit the descriptions of an LSE

Except I'm coordinated, I work with my hands, I do what ST types are stereotyped as doing, so correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm really being honest), how do you make sense of someone who claims to be a type but doesn't fit into what the type generally does?

How do I not fit into LSE descriptions?
You have a lot more explaining to do.

[aut0]

The difference between me and him though, is that he completely claims to fall outside the general norms of an LSE, "All LSEs don't need to need to be gear heads, All LSEs don't need to be this" He's a special LSE, one that doesn't need to fit the descriptions of an LSE

Except I'm coordinated, I work with my hands, I do what ST types are stereotyped as doing, so correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm really being honest), how do you make sense of someone who claims to be a type but doesn't fit into what the type generally does?

How do I not fit into LSE descriptions?
You have a lot more explaining to do.

How you don't fit the LSE description?

Easy, you're a try hard, every single post you make comes off as you being a try hard. And I'm not the first person that noticed it, can you count the number of "I'm an LSE, I'm so lucky to have EIIs as my dual" threads you've made?

You did the same exact thing as an INTJ, you had all those ESFJs are amazing posts.

If I'm an LSE, my focus is trying hard at school/work then being done with it and enjoying myself. I don't do stupid shit like run for student office, that pays me absolutely nothing. I don't do anymore work than I have to, it's a complete waste of time.

You on the other hand, seem to think life is all about work.

You run for student office, all you talk about is how much you like to work, how serious life is blah blah blah.

You and I don't think alike. There's a limit to how much you're supposed to work, you seem to not have one.

The Delta quadra is supposed to be about working to a point and then enjoying yourself, which part of your life did you enjoy posting about? Oh right, the part where you worked some more.

Can you fit gamma some more please?

Even better, what about all those threads of you asking people for advice on what you should be majoring in? Wouldn't that be considered Te dual seeking?

[UDP]

I am interested to see what other people think about that post.


PS: if you are an example of an LSE, you are certainly getting worked up and emotional about your post. You want to be right REAL bad, don't you.

[aut0]

I am interested to see what other people think about that post.


PS: if you are an example of an LSE, you are certainly getting worked up and emotional about your post. You want to be right REAL bad, don't you.

I absolutely don't want to be considered the same type as you, you aren't like anyone I hang out with in real life. All my close friends fit the ISTP/ENFP descriptions, and guess what? They fit the socionics stereotypes, my ISTPs friends are all mechanical engineers, they're gearheads that drive Evo's, STi's, and Neon's. My ENFP friends fit the ENFP stereotypes, I fit the LSE stereotypes, and I've also had a thread where people claimed that I shared Delta values.

If that's the case, then you can't possibly be Delta, because you obviously don't share Delta values. And more than one person seems to think so.

Use your logic to figure that out.

[UDP]

Heh...

I absolutely don't want to be considered the same type as you, you aren't like anyone I hang out with in real life. All my close friends fit the ISTP/ENFP descriptions, and guess what? They fit the socionics stereotypes, my ISTPs friends are all mechanical engineers, they're gearheads that drive Evo's, STi's, and Neon's

You're certainly full of prejudice yourself, wouldn't you say?


Maybe you're just desperately trying to rationalize me being something else so we're no the same type. But no, your own intentions are altruistic and flawless, and I'm the one who must, without question, be trying too hard.

Use your logic to figure that out.

Being snotty will not impress anyone, but that is your angle, right, that I am not a logical type?
Now you are the one who is 'emo'.

[aut0]

Very possible, I'm gonna have to apologize for the last two posts, I'm an asshole for posting that. Damnit now I feel bad for fighting on the internet.

[Minde]

Correct me if I'm wrong, aut0, but did you not consider yourself an INTj when you first posted here? And now you think you're... ESTj? Is that accurate?

It's perfectly accurate, and I did exactly what UDP is doing now, I took an MBTI test, it said "You're an INTJ, you're incredibly smart, and all these famous people are INTJ too" Would you want to deny that? And I of course wanted to be like all those famous people, and be super smart, and have all these crazy ideas. Except that besides the whole, wanting to be like the famous leaders nothing made sense.

I came in here, and I posted because I read Expat saying Augustus was ENTJ, I thought "Well I think like this man acted, so I must be the same type as him", of course since I was an INTJ he had to be an INTJ also, that was the only logical choice, and I couldn't be ENTJ cause the ENTJ description didn't fit me.

Only problem was, I came in here knowing two shits about socionics, having read no dual descriptions at all, and when I challenged Expat on why I thought Augustus wasn't ENTJ he pointed out exactly why I didn't know two shits about what I was talking about.

So I quit typing and started reading about socionics, I read the dual descriptions and nothing made sense, if ESE was my dual then my mom should've been my dual, she fit the ESFJ description to a tee. Except I didn't deal with her well at all, she annoyed the shit outa me. I thought my ENFJ brother was my semi-dual but it didn't fit the socionics.com description. And the INTP/INTJ relationship description didn't make sense with my dad one bit. (I didn't actually type my parents until after I considered that I might be an LSE, and it explained my relationships with them exactly, especially my INTP dad)

It wasn't until I started reading the quadra descriptions that I started considering anything outside of alpha. But I read through each quadra description, how they interacted, what they liked/disliked, and made what I thought were logical choices.

But I didn't decide I was LSE till a little while ago, and even then I wasn't sure cause every one of UDP's posts annoyed the shit outa me, and I don't hang around anyone like him, so if he was LSE there was no way in hell I was LSE. The only logical choice I had left to be sure whether I was right or wrong was to let other people decide. So I posted my picture, asked for people to VI me, people asked me questions I answered them, and then the general consensus was that I was a delta type te type, and a better chance of being LSE.

The difference between me and him though, is that he completely claims to fall outside the general norms of an LSE, "All LSEs don't need to need to be gear heads, All LSEs don't need to be this" He's a special LSE, one that doesn't need to fit the descriptions of an LSE

Except I'm coordinated, I work with my hands, I do what ST types are stereotyped as doing, so correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm really being honest), how do you make sense of someone who claims to be a type but doesn't fit into what the type generally does?

Hm. *ponders*

Another question: How long, exactly, have you been looking into socionics? I mean really looking into it, not just hearing about it?


After that, yet another question: How deeply have you studied? Have you just looked at all the available descriptions, or have you started looking into the functions, temperaments, dichotomies, etc.?

[aut0]

Don't care anymore, I took this way too far.

[snegledmaca]

What's the probability that every single person here is wrong about you? Compared to you being wrong about yourself? Which do you think is more likely from a statistical standpoint? This is logic, if out of 10 people, 9 people say one way is right, and 1 person says the other way is right, there's a far greater probability that those 9 people are right. There's always a chance that, that one person is right, but it's no where near as likely. You can make an argument saying that, "Well, these are just strangers on the internet, they can't possibly know the real me, since I don't share every single detail about myself". Fair point, but you also can't stop how you naturally come off to people, your posts reek emo to me, and every single thread I read here comes off as you trying so damn hard to convince everyone that you're an ESTJ.

Every time I read one of your posts about how great INFJs are, I'm convinced more and more that you don't know what you're going on about. I lived with my Dual and my Conflictor at the same time last year, dealing with my Conflictor was like driving a car with the parking breaks on, there was resistance in every single thing I had to do with him, I didn't even notice my dual. Dealing with my dual was completely low key, there was no resistance at all, he would ask me a question and my natural way of responding would be exactly what he was looking for and our conversation would end. Every time we did something together it was completely efficient and trouble free. When we would need to do something, I'd tell him what we needed to do and why, I'd tell him what I wanted him to do and then we'd go on and get the job done. No trouble at all.

Dual isn't some magical experience, and you're idolizing something that doesn't exist.

I don't know if anyone else notices it, but whenever you post how great it is be an LSE, or how great EII's are I can actually feel the nails on the chalkboard.

I totally agree with this, this is my impression as well (The whole part not just the bolded part. That's just for emphasis). I was not here for your type change but to me it seems as if all you do is try to adopt an image, even when you though you were LII. You seem utterly fake and artificial to me, completely reek of self delusion. Even to the point where you can be contrasted to Joy.

[Minde]

Don't care anymore, I took this way too far.

This doesn't have so much to do with your conversation with Courage as it does a potential flaw I see in your method. But if you don't want to talk about it I won't pursue it.

[UDP]

I totally agree with this, this is my impression as well (The whole part not just the bolded part. That's just for emphasis). I was not here for your type change but to me it seems as if all you do is try to adopt an image, even when you though you were LII. You seem utterly fake and artificial to me, completely reek of self delusion. Even to the point where you can be contrasted to Joy.

What does that have to do with type, though?

What if I started of saying I was ISFj and then ISTj - would it really make a difference?
I doubt it. People would/will/do say I'm too intuitive to be an Se creative. I focus too much on Ni, or Ne, or Fe. blah blah blah

My posting style would be the same - and that is what I was getting at that Herzy commented on and didn't quite get.



And furthermore, REGARDLESS of my type, I will approach exploring socionics the same way. If it turns out I'm ENTp, I am going to make posts about the duality, and explore it, and test it out. What I am getting at is, I really don't think that is going to change, for example, how Sneg feels about me. People say I'm fake and trying too hard, but what they don't realize is I am actually not trying to put on any airs, I am testing out the theory. It seems ScarlettLux and Sneg both feel this way, and I think it hurts them because they are Ti seeking (if I was to make a suggestion as to why it bothers them). But whatever the case, what they, and others, point out as being fake - I'm going to do that, act that way and make my posts the same way regardless of whatever type people decide fits me best. (Point being, even if I am correctly typed, people are not going to think it because, to them, my actions seem like I am trying too hard).


So unless you are trying to say "only XXXx would post that way", I really do not see the relevance of it. The criticism is just about whether I am "trying too hard", and not about type.


Can you understand what I am saying?

[XoX]

For some reason you just started to remind me of Thunder but I might reverse that later, heh.

How so?

ETA: and who? Courage or Ezra?

Courage I don't know why which is the reason I'm likely going to reverse it at some point. I'm not yet sure who Ezra reminds me the most around here.

Your dad.

ISFj?

[Slacker]

I don't know what type UDP is but I don't think the fact that he tested as INTj and then ESTj means anything other than that he knows enough about Socionics that the tests are worthless. Once you know where the questions are leading, it ceases to test what type you are and tests only what type you think you are at that moment. Which is probably why he's hard to type in general too.

He seems more ISFj than ESTj to me too but it's hard to tell in a smattering of online posts. And it's just a vibe I get - I don't have a point-by-point rationale for feeling that way. So who knows.

[snegledmaca]

I totally agree with this, this is my impression as well (The whole part not just the bolded part. That's just for emphasis). I was not here for your type change but to me it seems as if all you do is try to adopt an image, even when you though you were LII. You seem utterly fake and artificial to me, completely reek of self delusion. Even to the point where you can be contrasted to Joy.

What does that have to do with type, though?

Well it show Ni > Si if nothing else. From my experience Si types don't know how to adopt an image. They just can't help but be themselves. If your self perception/self image changes in any way if you change type, if it is linked to something abstract, then I don't see how you can be a Si type.

And furthermore, REGARDLESS of my type, I will approach exploring socionics the same way. If it turns out I'm ENTp, I am going to make posts about the duality, and explore it, and test it out.

Exploring is one thing, presenting oneself as an authority and ones subjective views as facts is another. If you are not an ILE and are describing your own experiences as views of an ILE, describing aspects of being an ILE, and so on, then you are just lying. All you described, deliberated, explained as aspects of "being LII" are now nothing more then hollow lies. And that's what I resent you for. For shamelessly lying like that.