Doubt my ILE-ness? Well come on in

[Phthalate]

I've been noticing some people have been doubting my self-typing of ILE-ness... mainly @thePirate, @hkkmr, @Maritsa Darmandzhyan, @fenryrr, and maybe some others that I'm not aware of.

So I propose something. Ask me something, and I'll respond in video to see if you disagree with something, and why .

[ashlesha]

i don't see any reason to doubt your ile-ness or confirm it but since you're around in chat i'll be watching with interest. its less creepy if i announce it, right? or no?

questions:

1. would you/have you ever engaged in prison correspondence with a serial killer? why or why not?

2. the moon is going to explode omg what should we do?

3. justify why you should be allowed to have such large and irritating signature.

[mu4]

IMO, give it up, there's nothing to prove or disprove at this time. People's opinions are just that and mine is based on the whole of my observation of you and my understanding of the topic at hand. You can persuade people with your video or what not but ultimately, that act of persuasion is mere rhetoric and not definitive.

I doubt I can persuade you of your type and I wouldn't try to either, since I don't think it's appropriate to convince you of something I'm uncertain of. I see in you, but I don't see the and that's about all there is to it.

[Phthalate]

IMO, give it up, there's nothing to prove or disprove at this time. People's opinions are just that and mine is based on the whole of my observation of you and my understanding of the topic at hand. You can persuade people with your video or what not but ultimately, that act of persuasion is mere rhetoric and not definitive.

I doubt I can persuade you of your type and I wouldn't try to either, since I don't think it's appropriate to convince you of something I'm uncertain of. I see in you, but I don't see the and that's about all there is to it.

You're no fun.

This is the reason why I made it so open-ended. So you could literally ask me ANYTHING, and ANYBODY could've provided input about what they thought. I easily could have made a video saying why I'm appealing to a certain type, IM or so. I decided against it, because I'm trying not to force myself into a box, but rather see what attire fits me best.

But oh well. You're ego because I say so .

[mu4]

You're no fun.

This is the reason why I made it so open-ended. So you could literally ask me ANYTHING, and ANYBODY could've provided input about what they thought. I easily could have made a video saying why I'm appealing to a certain type, IM or so. I decided against it, because I'm trying not to force myself into a box, but rather see what attire fits me best.

But oh well. You're ego because I say so .

this is a test, this is only a test

[ashlesha]

IMO, give it up, there's nothing to prove or disprove at this time. People's opinions are just that and mine is based on the whole of my observation of you and my understanding of the topic at hand. You can persuade people with your video or what not but ultimately, that act of persuasion is mere rhetoric and not definitive.

I doubt I can persuade you of your type and I wouldn't try to either, since I don't think it's appropriate to convince you of something I'm uncertain of. I see in you, but I don't see the and that's about all there is to it.

forum owner trying to shut down discussion about forum topic. weird.

[mu4]

forum owner trying to shut down discussion about forum topic. weird.

this is a test, this is only a test

[fen]

hk is right though. I mean, you could respond to questions in stereotypically ILE ways to promote the idea and give us no reason to doubt that typing, no?

[Phthalate]

hk is right though. I mean, you could respond to questions in stereotypically ILE ways to promote the idea and give us no reason to doubt that typing, no?

Is there any benefit to me doing so? Why would I want to do that?

[fen]

Is there any benefit to me doing so? Why would I want to do that?

I'm not saying you do.
The potential exists though.

[mu4]

Is there any benefit to me doing so? Why would I want to do that?

Isn't the whole point of this thread so you can respond to your doubters...

Why make this post at all if that wasn't your intention?

[Phthalate]

Isn't the whole point of this thread so you can respond to your doubters...

Where in the original post says so?

I said that people have been doubting my self type. I want to see why. If people can provide me a good enough reason, introduce me to something I didn't know, etc., it will be interesting.

I am not emotionally attached to any type. I really am curious as to the WHY are people doubting my self-type, and if anybody can make a convincing argument (better than "I don't see " or so) for another one.

[mu4]

Where in the original post says so?

I said that people have been doubting my self type. I want to see why. If people can provide me a good enough reason, introduce me to something I didn't know, etc., it will be interesting.

I am not emotionally attached to any type. I really am curious as to the WHY are people doubting my self-type, and if anybody can make a convincing argument (better than "I don't see " or so) for another one.

A. Is there any way to persuade you?
B. If answer is no, why should I bother?
C. If I'm uncertain, why should I bother?
D. If I don't give you what you want enough you'll eventually reveal your personality, why shouldn't I do that?

I'm not attached to your type either, but I am attached to my opinion about your type, because that's what I think and there's not much that can be done about that opinion. I'm being honest about my reasons, I could give you evidence so to speak, but it would be normative and possibly misinterpreted and ultimately wrong.

[ashlesha]

lol hkkmr what are you doing? if this is some kind of can-i- annoy-him-with-ti hoodoo its working on me too.

[mu4]

lol hkkmr what are you doing? if this is some kind of can-i- annoy-him-with-ti hoodoo its working on me too.

Oh I'm sorry Kassie.

[ashlesha]

Oh I'm sorry Kassie.

aw shucks now I'm all disarmed even though you're lying

[ashlesha]

lol I feel out of place in this thread. pht maybe we should fight?

[Phthalate]

lol I feel out of place in this thread. pht maybe we should fight?

I will respond to your questions with a video! I just want to see if I can get anybody else to ask me more stuff and I can group them!

That or... you stupid hag!

Something, anything, whatever... I'm not trying to out you, if you think that way? Why? Why would it matter if someone out -ed you. It wouldn't and shouldn't.

Exactly. Read again. Ask, not just state.

[glam]

Exactly. Read again. Ask, not just state.

yeah! follow directions! follow correct procedure as i have laid it out! know the correct meaning of words! take what i say very literally! please be productive in this thread!


sorry Phthalate, couldn't help it. so far this thread isn't exactly convincing me of your Ti-ness , but i don't have a real opinion on your type atm either. this may just be a case of two guys and their clashing egos anyway

[mu4]

Exactly. Read again. Ask, not just state.

No..

[Aquagraph]

Are taxes robbery, Phthalate?

[NewBorn STAR]

Would you take the cookie ?

[Gilly]

you better not

ITS MY FUCKING COOKIE

[munenori2]

Is taking Gilly's cookie robbery, Phthalate?

[Gilly]

you best believe

o_o

[Phthalate]

@lungs @HaveLucidDreamz @Aquagraph

[Radio]

Ne-ENXp imo

NOT JI SUB FANCY THAT

I still can't pick T/F for you, but if you relate more to ILE, you're probably that

[Phthalate]

Ne-ENXp imo

NOT JI SUB FANCY THAT

I still can't pick T/F for you, but if you relate more to ILE, you're probably that

Hahaha so I'm so that it just blows the creatives out of the question? xD

I'm a ILE-Fi, or IEE-Ti

[ashlesha]

my vote is IEE. pretty comfortable with it after watching the video.

what you said about the beer (if i got it right lol) sounded more Te>Ti to me. overall what you said about Ti sounded to me like Te or neither in particular.

"unless you want to be some kind of primitive" > Fi>Ti, lmao <3

the bouncing around could be indicative of Ne for sure but i think there's also some lack of Ti in your style.

there's also the fact that i think you're p. alright and the fact that i'm Te DS so i look for Te. but that's my vote regardless, sorry.

[Phthalate]

my vote is IEE. pretty comfortable with it after watching the video.

what you said about the beer (if i got it right lol) sounded more Te>Ti to me. overall what you said about Ti sounded to me like Te or neither in particular.

"unless you want to be some kind of primitive" > Fi>Ti, lmao <3

the bouncing around could be indicative of Ne for sure but i think there's also some lack of Ti in your style.

there's also the fact that i think you're p. alright and the fact that i'm Te DS so i look for Te. but that's my vote regardless, sorry.

Thanks a lot for this .

I'm just wondering now... what is then? I'm off to read several articles here, wikisocion and www.socionics.us to see if I misunderstood something... I'm going by the following definitions:

ILEs are obsessed with how things work, and how they will work together. Understanding how something works is merely the baseline for the ILE. When the ILE finds something new or interesting he thinks about how it could be used in conjunction with other objects he has come into contact with in the past.
The ILE will freely voice comments on whether a rule (especially one imposed on him by society) makes sense to him. If it does not, he will break the rule or find a creative way of mocking it to express his dissent, rather than working within the system itself to change the rule. Unlike a -leading type, he will often not replace the rule with one of his own.
The ILE is not afraid of discussing and arguing his views, and may appear to take them more seriously than he actually does. The ILE only makes use of structural frameworks if he can see some kind of intuitive relevance in them, e.g. to make sense of and solve a problem he is interested in. Thus his thoughts may often appear unstructured. Especially if his actions affect others, the ILE will make sure that they are logically consistent and fair.

And:

The IEE is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him. He prizes efficiency, and berates himself secretly for his own inefficiency. He takes care to explain the justifications behind his actions. He loves accumulating and sharing trivia to make himself seem educated. IEEs believe firmly that knowledge should be shared freely. Asking an IEE to keep a secret is a burden on him. He can also be a little too trusting of information sources, because spreading falsehood is seen as a foreign and repulsive idea. IEEs love scientific and mathematic concepts, but practical application will soon bore them.

And I'd cite socionics.us... but it's down .

[mu4]

Thanks a lot for this .

I'm just wondering now... what is then? I'm off to read several articles here, wikisocion and www.socionics.us to see if I misunderstood something... I'm going by the following definitions:

And:

And I'd cite socionics.us... but it's down .

Show, don't tell. You seem more comfortable dealing with your type thru marketing than thru showing your .

If someone's talking about something and not doing it, it's might just be a weak function. I talk a lot about relationships, yet I don't really do it.. probably ethics is not my strong function.

[Phthalate]

Show, don't tell. You seem more comfortable dealing with your type thru marketing than thru showing your .

Damn it hkkmr this is what I'm trying to do in this fucking thread. I've already said that I will answer anything, and I said "I think this is why I relate to this" and so forth, and parts of what I relate. Did I ask to ask me only IM questions? No, I didn't. I said 'ask me anything'.

I'm considering IEE. I'm not voting against it just yet. I'm trying to find more information about which I can make sense of, because I still relate more to the definition in ILE than the in IEE (as far as wikisocion goes). Too bad socionics.us is down, and thus wikisocion is the only thing I can go for in this moment.

I just want people to tell me WHY. Not just say "Oh you are ", but I want to understand what is their reasoning. I want to learn. I want to see why do they think that. I want them to show me "oh you said this, this sounds very because..." blah blah blah. It's REALLY not that difficult.

It's just annoying to see you manipulate my words at this point. My posts REALLY seem to be flying WAY over your head at this point, considering I can't see how I can't be more clear than that.

[mu4]

Damn it hkkmr this is what I'm trying to do in this fucking thread. I've already said that I will answer anything, and I said "I think this is why I relate to this" and so forth, and parts of what I relate. Did I ask to ask me only IM questions? No, I didn't. I said 'ask me anything'.

I'm considering IEE. I'm not voting against it just yet. I'm trying to find more information about which I can make sense of, because I still relate more to the definition in ILE than the in IEE (as far as wikisocion goes). Too bad socionics.us is down, and thus wikisocion is the only thing I can go for in this moment.

I just want people to tell me WHY. Not just say "Oh you are ", but I want to understand what is their reasoning. I want to learn. I want to see why do they think that. I want them to show me "oh you said this, this sounds very because..." blah blah blah. It's REALLY not that difficult.

It's just annoying to see you manipulate my words at this point. My posts REALLY seem to be flying WAY over your head at this point, considering I can't see how I can't be more clear than that.

I don't think you really understand that there is no point in me proving my doubt of you to you, I don't want to persuade you or anything. It's up to you to figure this out yourself, which you seem to be avoiding. I only want to analyze you and state my opinions.

Yes, I've given no evidence, yes I'm not substantiating anything. All of this is true, but I'm not doing because I can't, I can but it might be wrong. Rather I don't want to persuade you and I want to see how you try to request information from me. Ultimately how you choose to express yourself, how you choose to request information from me is far more evidence of your type than anything I say about you.

If you want to figure out your type, try to understand what you mean, what you're trying to do, what information you're requesting from me. Ultimately socionics is about information exchange and there is information I'm withholding from you and information I'm giving you which make this interaction easy or difficult.

I've said 2 things basically. I see your , I don't see your . Unless I find conclusive evidence of your / then I can't give you any evidence because it would be irrelevant. I don't have conclusive evidence, I can't really substantiate this opinion yet which is why you're not going to get much of it from me until I can analyze you more.

I think there will be other individuals who are going to be more willing to give you this information.

But what I can do is give you a hypothesis, which I'm in the process of testing.

this is only a test.

[Esaman]

Damn it hkkmr this is what I'm trying to do in this fucking thread. I've already said that I will answer anything, and I said "I think this is why I relate to this" and so forth, and parts of what I relate. Did I ask to ask me only IM questions? No, I didn't. I said 'ask me anything'.

I'm considering IEE. I'm not voting against it just yet. I'm trying to find more information about which I can make sense of, because I still relate more to the definition in ILE than the in IEE (as far as wikisocion goes). Too bad socionics.us is down, and thus wikisocion is the only thing I can go for in this moment.

I just want people to tell me WHY. Not just say "Oh you are ", but I want to understand what is their reasoning. I want to learn. I want to see why do they think that. I want them to show me "oh you said this, this sounds very because..." blah blah blah. It's REALLY not that difficult.

It's just annoying to see you manipulate my words at this point. My posts REALLY seem to be flying WAY over your head at this point, considering I can't see how I can't be more clear than that.

Stopped reading after this lovely rant. You cannot be Ti PoLR if you demand Ti so adamantly.

[FoxOnStilts]

If you're not ILE then I can't be ILE.

[mu4]

If you're not ILE then I can't be ILE.

I think you two are both subtypes.

[fen]

Hello, Identical. Tea, perhaps?

[ashlesha]

how would you describe Te?

[ashlesha]

blank spots should be te and ti typing on my phone dumb keyboard and cursor ugh sorry lol

I feel kind of antsy about bringing it up now because I don't have time atm to go into how I perceive and and what I saw but remind me tomorrow if you want me to get to it and I haven't yet (disclaimers about myself and socionics being subjective anyway)

[Gilly]

If a tree falls in a forest, there is always something to hear it. Every wave function is already collapsing, a sentient observer is a influence on a particle as much as a non-sentient "observer". I think it's a philosophical error to assume only a sentient observer collapses the wave function. This is of course difficult to prove, but the assumption that it requires a sentient observer is also flawed. It might be intuitive to assume something like that, but also absurd and obscurantist.

How can a non-sentient being "observe" anything? Define "observe?" And it seems more a question of physics rather than one of philosophy; many people blur that line which I have come to see as a rather childish mistake, what with the numerous, ahhh, "belief systems," if you will, that claim to be based on quantum mechanics.