Of course she isOriginally Posted by woofwoofl
and god damn fucking proud of it too! hahahaha
Of course she is
Yeah man, you're hitting the nail on the head. I'd specify the above as falling within the Fi-Ti conflict as well. Look at how the Delta NF's on this forum discuss and utilize Socionics... It seems prescriptive, experiential, and humanitarian (relating to human needs and experience). The Gamma SF's that frequent 16t have similar interests. Theperception of "conceptual isomorphisms" or "internal object statics" doesn't necessarily have to involve delimitations (with explicit symbolic indices, that is). It could also rationalize/order the Ne perceptions based on associated feeling tones or the like. So, what you described seems specifically a Gamma SF/Alpha NT distinction, and more over has more to do with thinking vs. feeling, given the topic (intellectualization, judgement, meaning, etc.).
I have trouble seeing Maritsa as an Fi dominant because she does not speak in that experiential/personal/holistic way. Any time she does discuss personal values, etc. It is always preceded by an external indicator (I'm an INFj, therefore...), or seems wholey determinant on delimited concepts (My Ne creative causes me to feel this way about things). Obviously, most people here relate Socionics to their behaviors, but for Maritsa it feels extremely mechanical, which could point to being a Thinking type (Ti), or perhaps to an irrelevant but socially dysfunctional trait. I do not associate that behavior with Fi in any case.
The end is nigh
This is interesting, I've always been interested in the "external indicators" as you put it. I've had the impression though that this may relate in some way to an insecure sense of self or identity, possibly relating to some internal conflicts, essentially a defence mechanism. I think that this is why Maritsa is so hard to uncover, she says one thing, qualifies it and then does another. I suspect the real Maritsa is unknown even to herself.Yeah man, you're hitting the nail on the head. I'd specify the above as falling within the Fi-Ti conflict as well. Look at how the Delta NF's on this forum discuss and utilize Socionics... It seems prescriptive, experiential, and humanitarian (relating to human needs and experience). The Gamma SF's that frequent 16t have similar interests. The
I have trouble seeing Maritsa as an Fi dominant because she does not speak in that experiential/personal/holistic way. Any time she does discuss personal values, etc. It is always preceded by an external indicator (I'm an INFj, therefore...), or seems wholey determinant on delimited concepts (My Ne creative causes me to feel this way about things). Obviously, most people here relate Socionics to their behaviors, but for Maritsa it feels extremely mechanical, which could point to being a Thinking type (Ti), or perhaps to an irrelevant but socially dysfunctional trait. I do not associate that behavior with Fi in any case.
IEE-Ne
As are the rest of us.
The end is nigh
I was about to write something like 'but don't you think we all do this' and then stopped and thought yeah maybe some don't...it just seems so obvious to me though that to do what you mentioned is a good start.
To a greater or lesser extent. Although I was going to edit that last post, my point is that Maritsa seems to be someone who has not yet reached consistent congruity. I suspect she will in time if given the opportunity, I may be wrong, but my impression stands, I believe the qualifiers are one amoungst many primitive and neurotic defence mechanisms. I do not deny that much of who I am is unknown, as I am sure that is the case with many other people here.
My gut instinct is that Maritsa is having a hard time dealing with something about herself, something she may not like, and is covering for this by associating with the supposed characteristics of the EII and raising herself above others with grand proclamations of empathy. I think she may well be an EII, but from my perspective her using these qualifiers clouds her true self.
Edits: I am not stating that there is a fundamental and static true self, but if there is then she is clouded and if there is not, but instead a dynamic self, then her static self image also clouds this. I was also going to suggest that perhaps that I am mistaken on the grounds that I am misunderstanding something due to perhaps cultural issues etc, that may be the case however my gut instinct is my gut instinct.
Finally Maritsa I mean no offence by this post, but perhaps it is some food for thought... Do you know Carl Rogers? I've been reading his book On Becoming a Person, do you know it? It might be of interest to you. I think he has been typed EII by many people... It's a good book to read slowly and reflect upon.
Last edited by somavision; 05-30-2012 at 01:47 AM.
IEE-Ne
Sounds right on.
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ne is exercised in what potential one sees in the material they gather or objects that are observed. Ne can be very rigid especially when combined with Ti. That can very well be observed with Carl Jung's rigid formulation of the categories of the types, or from categories and descriptions of types by Filatova...etc.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hm. I understand why you made this thread lungs but I also feel there's something wrong with it. I don't think it's right to bully one person. Ok, she bullies us all, she's called me a bitch, which was really unpleasant but then we are all against her and she's one.
It's not I think you are a victim Martisa. But I have to say I'm somehow impressed how you persist in being active in this forum. It's somehow wasting time while sth more constructive could be done. Anyway, If I were in your shoes, I'd probably quit this forum or break down. I even felt like quiting when you called me a bitch. I somehow try to avoid environments in which people make me feel unwanted.
That is not to say you are unwanted here. I think many, many arguments revolve around you. It makes you a kind of celebrity..
I'm not so much immersed into typing people, although I think I'm more than I should be. Sometimes I think it doesn't lead anwhere. In real life knowing what person's type is has proven to be some help but also some disturbance and there are other things I should do rather than reading internet forum all the type. I feel guilty.
In general I think it's not right to attack anyone, neither Martisa nor anyone else should do it. Idk how to deal with this situation.
As for her type, hm. Maybe she's EII, maybe not. I just feel my knowledge and my experience - irl I know on average like 3-4 representatives of each type - is not enough to say something conclusive. I also haven't studied her cause enough. She does strike me as Se however, but it's the internet forum only and I'm just thinking why she would stick to INFj typing is she weren't one...
Also, I somehow feel almost the whole forum is in a state of war with Martisa so we almost unconciously negate everything she says. And when she says something stupid, while other people could get away with it, she doesn't cause we are all angry with her. And we are all angry cause she made us feel this way with her remarks, with her accusations etc.
I'd personally like this war to end.
And I'm wondering what is Martisa's and everybody else's opinion on how to do that.
It's when we find a way to choose to change, to choose to appreciate, forgive, respect one-another and try to understand the others beliefs, reasons and perspectives that these kind of wars will stop but this takes time.
One must therefor be willing to practise patience, learn/educate/grow themselves and be humble enough to realise that we personally make mistakes and then apply wisdom to try not to make them again.
Last edited by Hays; 05-30-2012 at 04:30 AM.
What makes people angry IMO about Martisa are not her beliefs but the way she presents them. On second thoughts, you know, she's in a state of war with us. As history shows, appeasement method doesn't exactly help.
Ok, we can behave. But we shouldn't tolerante ANYBODY being rude and putting down other members. To me, Martisa is a kind of stubborn, spoilt child - at least she behaves in such a way. I think the forum has shown enough tolerance to her.
I agree with you that it takes time to apply these changes but on the other hand, are we here to change Martisa? People learn on their own mistakes, if someone wants to put up with her being rude - ok - but everybody has their own lives and has the right to live it the way they want.
i would normally let shit like this pass but if you think any part of analytical psychology is "rigid", you have missed the essence of jung's approach and likely all of his concepts. go back and read it all over again and not just chapter X because it comprises of a tiny fraction of his body of works and which is frequently taken out of context. furthermore jung was not Ne ego but lets not open that can of worms.
You make some really good points, though she doesn't seem to be particularily good at handling abstract concepts/forming intellectual arguments/understanding the theoretical context of socionics either.
Not good at it, but exhibits a preference for it. She can just be a stupid EII who isn't very good at what shes supposed to be the best at; I'm sure they exist.
guys, we're going to close this thread in a day, so say what you want to say.
also, can we try to chill out on calling people stupid?
Last edited by bg; 05-30-2012 at 01:24 PM.
That same argument could be applied to what Ashton said regarding an Se knowing how to pick her battles better.Not good at it, but exhibits a preference for it. She can just be a stupid EII who isn't very good at what shes supposed to be the best at; I'm sure they exist.You make some really good points, though she doesn't seem to be particularily good at handling abstract concepts/forming intellectual arguments/understanding the theoretical context of socionics either.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
A) does this mean that when Maritsa starts a thread to "teach" us how to retype someone by one paragraph pulled out of context... Or starts threads with the intent of retyping a person,...does this mean we should complain to ya'll and have it shut down? Is Maritsa ok with having her own actions used against her?
B) does this mean that when Maritsa goes on her tantrum and starts calling people stupid merely because they won,t conform to what she wants them to...we should report her? (because there's been a few posts since this thread was put up, in other threads, where Maritsa was calling other people stupid.)
C) Or will this action of shutting down typing discussions and placing rules regarding using "stupid" apply only to everyone but Maritsa, creating a double standard regarding Maritsa's behavior?
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
A) yes. If maritsa makes a thread about somebody that they don't want, they are free to report it and it will be closed.
B) the stupid thing was more of a request, and yes, it absolutely was directed at @Maritsa33 as well as the people calling her stupid.
C) the stupid thing is not a rule, just a general request to chill out on calling people stupid and dumb as part of your personality analysis. it seems as though several people have latched onto using that when talking about maritsa and it's getting kind of gross.
Last edited by bg; 05-30-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Okies.
Thanks for the clarification, bg.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
What I wrote also applies to Maritsa. So if she wants to end the 'war' on the forum and see things move forward then she also needs to give respect, understanding of others reasons & perspectives etc and yeah this could mean adjusting the way which she presents things on the forum.
And I agree we have shown her much tolerance and I personally have been through a ton of negative experiences with Maritsa - probably more than any other member on the forum so I think my sharing of what needs to change with these 'wars' is all valid.
I never said anything about changing Maritsa, that's up to her to do for herself, though I will say that personally I think Maritsa is undergoing alterations and improving significantly in many ways.
Exactly.
She baits sympathy. I tried to be nice to her, but she is only interested in her own world. F that. She can swim in her own pity pool. She is old enough to know better.
thread is now closed.
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