Galen's Type As Of May 24th 2012

[Gilly]

Yeah I think it makes more sense, you are very outward and expressive and engaging, a lot like user Kim in some ways.

[anndelise]

Interesting, so you think i'm Ne-IEE too then? You're like the 3rd person to have mentioned this to me lately... Looks like i have to adjust my sig then...

I think a person,s view of subtype would depend on what specifically they are noticing.
For example, Gilly seems to say you are Ne subtype because you are more Xe oriented.
Yet, someone like me might consider you as maybe Fi subtype because you are more ethical/relational oriented than abstract/intuitive oriented.

Gilly also seems to look at something he refers to as peak Fi/Te.
While I tend to look at something I refer to as Ne/Te; while also considering Fi subtype to more fluidly utilize Se mode as needed.

Knowing these differences in views regarding subtype might be confusing, but it'll help you get a clearer picture of what the person is referring to, and then choose how accurate that seems to apply to you.

[Suz]

Yeah I think it makes more sense, you are very outward and expressive and engaging, a lot like user Kim in some ways.

I've been previously told i remind people of Kim as well, actually

I need to chat more with this Kim person! Earth to Kim...summoning @Kim! lol..

[Gilly]

I think a person,s view of subtype would depend on what specifically they are noticing.
For example, Gilly seems to say you are Ne subtype because you are more Xe oriented.
Yet, someone like me might consider you as maybe Fi subtype because you are more ethical/relational oriented than abstract/intuitive oriented.

Gilly also seems to look at something he refers to as peak Fi/Te.
While I tend to look at something I refer to as Ne/Te; while also considering Fi subtype to more fluidly utilize Se mode as needed.

Knowing these differences in views regarding subtype might be confusing, but it'll help you get a clearer picture of what the person is referring to, and then choose how accurate that seems to apply to you.

How do you see Work utilizing "Se mode?"

Personally I think subtype affects more than just the primary function. Keep in mind Ne subtype is also closer to Alpha; I tend to think her brand of interaction is more skewed towards Ne/Fe; Fi-sub IEEs tend to seem more self-controlled and subdued in their expression, sometimes with a more turbulent or even brooding quality.

What I "seem" to look at is just my general impression of the different ratios of her functional values. I think she seems to be more Ne/Si than Te/Fi in terms of her overall values based on how she comes across and interacts with others. I suppose you could argue this is because she's Ne dominant, but in my opinion there is a very different impression produced by Fi subs: generally more subdued, less hyperactive seeming, a little bit more of a condensed feel.

[Galen]

Interesting, so you think i'm Ne-IEE too then? You're like the 3rd person to have mentioned this to me lately... Looks like i have to adjust my sig then...

Just because other people say so doesn't mean you have to go along with it :|


This is the sort of thing I find that sets me apart from other IEEs on here; not necessarily the subtype thing, but there's this common thread of what I perceive as passivity among a lot of them, like they aren't as capable of asserting themselves intellectually as I am. That's not to say I'm more correct than them, I just find myself more comfortable in standing my ground when it comes to defending my positions on things. Could be an issue of w5 + sx first.

[jessica129]

This is the sort of thing I find that sets me apart from other IEEs on here; not necessarily the subtype thing, but there's this common thread of what I perceive as passivity among a lot of them, like they aren't as capable of asserting themselves intellectually as I am. That's not to say I'm more correct than them, I just find myself more comfortable in standing my ground when it comes to defending my positions on things.

Yeah, you don't seem similar to any of the IEE's here which is why it confuses me.

[Suz]

Just because other people say so doesn't mean you have to go along with it :|


This is the sort of thing I find that sets me apart from other IEEs on here; not necessarily the subtype thing, but there's this common thread of what I perceive as passivity among a lot of them, like they aren't as capable of asserting themselves intellectually as I am. That's not to say I'm more correct than them, I just find myself more comfortable in standing my ground when it comes to defending my positions on things. Could be an issue of w5 + sx first.

I think in my case i often hesitate to assert myself because i leave open the possibility that i might be wrong. I also dont want to lose credibility if i assert myself in some wrong thing, and i'd feel bad about spreading bad info. But yes it's been a constant criticism given to me in school and at work. BE MORE ASSERTIVE.

[Galen]

I think in my case i often hesitate to assert myself because i leave open the possibility that i might be wrong. I also dont want to lose credibility if i assert myself in some wrong thing, and i'd feel bad about spreading bad info.

You can assert your own ideas and still be skeptical about their veracity. I frequently pepper my observations with "it seems to me," "from what I've seen" and so on, emphasizing that whatever I say is based upon my own experiences and that conflicting evidence or misinterpretations of events are easily possible. And yes, I do mess things up and spurt out conjectures that turn out to be totally untrue. But this is basically how science works: accepting that anything anybody says at any given time could turn out to be incorrect, learning from past mistakes, and navigating through the bullshit to find the specks of gold. And if you've got an idea you like, then why not defend it to some extent?

[Gilly]

Just because other people say so doesn't mean you have to go along with it :|


This is the sort of thing I find that sets me apart from other IEEs on here; not necessarily the subtype thing, but there's this common thread of what I perceive as passivity among a lot of them, like they aren't as capable of asserting themselves intellectually as I am. That's not to say I'm more correct than them, I just find myself more comfortable in standing my ground when it comes to defending my positions on things. Could be an issue of w5 + sx first.

Why would.sx have anything to do with it?

[Park]

Because sex.

[Galen]

Why would.sx have anything to do with it?

I find that Sx types exhibit much greater active ferocity and pointed focus than others when it comes to whatever issue they're defending/attacking. Just take a look at the bulk of Sx types on here vs. non-Sx and that pattern should come through; you're definitely like this Gilly.

[Gilly]

Well yeah I am. I suppose the added emotional turbulence/intensity translates to added stubbornness in debates...makes sense.

[Slacker]

Hmm I don't honestly notice that you act particularly different than the rest of us IEEs.

[Galen]

Well yeah I am. I suppose the added emotional turbulence/intensity translates to added stubbornness in debates...makes sense.

Yes, stubbornness is definitely a part of it lol

Hmm I don't honestly notice that you act particularly different than the rest of us IEEs.

[Slacker]

LOL I didn't mean that in a bad way.

[somavision]

I met up with an IEE friend the other day and he introduced me to an IEE friend of his. Good chap, reminded me of Galen. I had to get out.

[Galen]

LOL I didn't mean that in a bad way.

:(((((((

[strangeling]

edited because no one really cares.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I think once you told me that you didn't read half of my post, as if to suggest the opposite of the quote. You're also pretty hyper-critical about what people say. I'm guessing you don't mean in this forum, but in your ....Cpig calls it...meatspace?

Galen, I'm curious, have you ever considered INTp? You do seem 'hyper-critical about what people say'.

I think I have read it before in a recent thread, but ever thought of SLI?

If Pa3s can suggest ISTp, I don't think INTp is that far-fetched.

This is the sort of thing I find that sets me apart from other IEEs on here; not necessarily the subtype thing, but there's this common thread of what I perceive as passivity among a lot of them, like they aren't as capable of asserting themselves intellectually as I am. That's not to say I'm more correct than them, I just find myself more comfortable in standing my ground when it comes to defending my positions on things.

I've noticed this too. It seems you actively defend your viewpoints much more, whereas in my experience, IEEs tend to be more open-minded to different perspectives.

Still, being positive and playful is kind of a drain on me when it's all over, and I'd much rather be able to just sit with somebody and talk about our lives without the pressure of having to emote or intellectualize my feelings.

Fe POLR? ... ENFp's are known as some of the most playful people at times, the 'scourges of the swimming pool', 'ticklers par excellence'. It would seem odd for an ENFp to find being playful as a "drain".

Has anyone ever suggested ILI to you in the past, or am I the first?

[Saberstorm]

Tell me about your music? What is the best environment for you to compose music in? Tell me about how you create the mood for you to compose your ideas.

[Galen]

Galen, I'm curious, have you ever considered INTp? You do seem 'hyper-critical about what people say'.

Admittedly my criticality tends to be directed towards people I don't care for in the first place. Even so, I like to push people to be very specific and exact in their wordings of things, and if something strikes me as too generalized or appealing to poor reasoning, I try my best to point it out.

I've noticed this too. It seems you actively defend your viewpoints much more, whereas in my experience, IEEs tend to be more open-minded to different perspectives.

maybe I'm just smart
Anndelise defends her points pretty vehemently as well, and I don't see many people questioning her IEE typing.

Fe POLR? ... ENFp's are known as some of the most playful people at times, the 'scourges of the swimming pool', 'ticklers par excellence'. It would seem odd for an ENFp to find being playful as a "drain".

I didn't so much mean that being actively engaging itself is tiring on me. I more meant that when I do invest myself in those activities, I tend to put a lot of energy into it, and the tiredness comes from when it's all over and I have the time to consider what just happened. At those points, I really appreciate not having to put forth what little psychological energy I have left and just "being".

Has anyone ever suggested ILI to you in the past, or am I the first?

I think once when I first joined, don't remember who suggested it though.

[Galen]

Tell me about your music? What is the best environment for you to compose music in? Tell me about how you create the mood for you to compose your ideas.

Well historically my best music has come from the most intense and engaging emotional states. I think I explained in another thread how I visualize things in terms of landscapes (Radio said the same thing as well), how these visual landscapes affect my emotional state and vice versa. So I suppose a combination of powerful fEeLiNgZ plus some sort of visual overworld in tandem results in my best work. The more influential half of the equation is more often than not the emotional state, although having that semi-visual plane in mind always helps.

[Saberstorm]

Do you think that it is hard to acheive such a mental state? Is it hard for you to stop the mood - it is like a ship sailing in your imagination - is it not? And ships don't come with breaks?

[Galen]

lol extended metaphors

Often times what happens is that I'm struck with a chorus or main theme, which is usually derived from such a mood. In that inspirational frenzy I'll get down the main idea, and save the rest for later (this is how most composers/producers I've met work, regardless of type lol). What then happens is I go back to what I had already written, try to get that initial state of mind back, and build the rest of the track around what's already there. It's like I write the song backwards in a way. Often though, I run out of steam when I can't find the exact right way to phrase an idea and leave it unfinished (again, every single song writer I've ever known works this way instinctively).

[anndelise]

Admittedly my criticality tends to be directed towards people I don't care for in the first place. Even so, I like to push people to be very specific and exact in their wordings of things, and if something strikes me as too generalized or appealing to poor reasoning, I try my best to point it out.

i don't know how you would interpret this, but I see this as also being relateable to Ne and Ti polr.
When someone is ambiguous, and their statements lead to a) multiple possible meanings and/or b) multiple possible conclusions other than the one they chose, then pushing them to be more clear helps to narrow those possible meanings down. The difference between Ni and Ti, though, is that Ne+Te usually asks for the facts or background/supporting info to be made more clear. Though asking about one's psychological orientation when viewing that background/supporting info also helps in narrowing down the possibilities too.

And frankly, if a Ti polr easily notices that there is something off in the reasoning process...then that usually means that it had been pretty damned poor reasoning.


---
As for actively defending viewpoints, i think there is a difference between
a) one's values being kicked in strong enough to lead to defending something/someone,
b) defending 'reality' and pushing for checking accuracy by checking how something relates to 'reality', facts, etc.
c) trying to clear up misunderstandings,
vs d) defending one's ideas/viewpoints.

I haven't spent time going through a lot of your posts, so it's possible that I missed something, but I don't particularly see you as defending your subjective ideas. I see you reference something else (like enneagram writings) and how those might apply to something, or trying to provide info that another person might not be considering/aware of, or describing things about yourself. Also pushing for what I mentioned in the first section of this post regarding clarity and piss-poor reasoning. None of these counter Ne+Fi+Te, imo.

[Gilly]

anndelise doesn't like responding to me any more

[anndelise]

 

anndelise doesn't like responding to me any more

I had forgotten you had asked something up there.

I didn't want to turn this thread into a type discussion of WA. (btw, saying she uses Se role sometimes does not mean she is Se ego.)
I also didn,t want to turn this thread into an argument over what Se is or isn't.
So I had initially held off answering until I could figure out how to do so without those two thread tangents occuring, and then I got distracted by life and forgot about it til you said this, and I had to go back over to see what you were referring to, lol.

I still don,t want to tangent this thread away from Galen.
But I also don,t want to discuss WA without her ability to provide her own input.
And I have a meeting soon, and things to do in the home and yard today.
I dunno what to do regarding answering you.

[Gilly]

Well I think its relevant to.Galens type, we were discussing the difference between variants of IEEs.

[Slacker]

So what is so different between Galen and the rest of us? We all argue. We've all had viewpoints here we've actively defended, and we've all dug our heels in the ground over something or another.

[Kim]

There have also been very conflicting descriptions of IEE subtypes, so I am always confused about those. And I am a bit suspicious that most IEE typed as Fi-subtype are female whereas far more men are considered Ne-subtype. You know, like all those ESE moms around here...

[Absurd]

Kim.

[Gilly]

So what is so different between Galen and the rest of us? We all argue. We've all had viewpoints here we've actively defended, and we've all dug our heels in the ground over something or another.

Yes but Galen does it more frequently and obviously. What a retarded argument...

He also doesn't enter conflict with the kind of defensive nervousness that you do, which IMO in your case speaks more to an sp/so or so/sp attitude; his attitude is more kind of creepily calm, like a small child with an eerily mature gaze. You can tell he kind of thrives on debating a little bit; you usually seem more like you enter arguments because something has offended you and you need to "set it straight," or something, which I suppose probably also has something to do with being a mother.

That said I don't think any of this is directly relevant to his Socionics type, which you two appear to share.

[Slacker]

I don't think he does it more frequently or obviously, unless you're talking about something that happens somewhere other than here, and I don't feel defensive or nervous. Way to assume what other people are feeling. I absolutely don't see any significant difference between how he argues and how the rest of us do.

[Gilly]

That's fine. I can't make you see something you don't see.

I suppose I should have said that you SEEM defensive/nervous, sorry.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I could see Galen being Fi-ego, since he likes and dislikes strongly with a lot of intensity. That relates to the function Fi in a pure way. And when people are all Te it's honestly like he lightens up and falls in a certain kind of romantic love, that I've tried to make him feel (Lighten up I mean) but it only made him madder.

[Galen]

I don't think he does it more frequently or obviously, unless you're talking about something that happens somewhere other than here, and I don't feel defensive or nervous. Way to assume what other people are feeling. I absolutely don't see any significant difference between how he argues and how the rest of us do.

I find that I make it very obvious when I get in an argument with somebody. I get very reactive, become much more uncompromising in the things I assert, speak a lot faster and with much greater inflection; sometimes when I'm really pushed I can't help but attack their personhood, jabbing at character flaws etc. Any of these things, especially the latter, have been demonstrated readily on here towards he people I seriously despise (hopefully I don't have to repeat who these people are).

[Slacker]

What IEEs here haven't had arguments of that sort with people here?

[Park]

What IEEs here haven't had arguments of that sort with people here?

The un-cool, spineless ones. Can't think of any atm.

And I hope I'm not on Galen's hatelist.

[Galen]

i don't know how you would interpret this, but I see this as also being relateable to Ne and Ti polr.
When someone is ambiguous, and their statements lead to a) multiple possible meanings and/or b) multiple possible conclusions other than the one they chose, then pushing them to be more clear helps to narrow those possible meanings down. The difference between Ni and Ti, though, is that Ne+Te usually asks for the facts or background/supporting info to be made more clear. Though asking about one's psychological orientation when viewing that background/supporting info also helps in narrowing down the possibilities too.

Yeah, it's likely a Ti PoLR/Te HA thing.

And frankly, if a Ti polr easily notices that there is something off in the reasoning process...then that usually means that it had been pretty damned poor reasoning.

Eh, apparently I've been good at catching poor reasoning from the get-go.

As for actively defending viewpoints, i think there is a difference between
a) one's values being kicked in strong enough to lead to defending something/someone,
b) defending 'reality' and pushing for checking accuracy by checking how something relates to 'reality', facts, etc.
c) trying to clear up misunderstandings,
vs d) defending one's ideas/viewpoints.

I haven't spent time going through a lot of your posts, so it's possible that I missed something, but I don't particularly see you as defending your subjective ideas. I see you reference something else (like enneagram writings) and how those might apply to something, or trying to provide info that another person might not be considering/aware of, or describing things about yourself. Also pushing for what I mentioned in the first section of this post regarding clarity and piss-poor reasoning. None of these counter Ne+Fi+Te, imo.

I think I develop and defend a good number of my own hypotheses on the subjects talked about here. Whenever I do put forth my own subjective ideas, I tend to look for ways in which other people may be expressing the same ideas but from a different frame of reference from mine (one point for HP cognitive style). Most times when I'm fact-checking I compare what the person says to my own experiences with the matter and see if they sync up or not. If I think something does work out, or if I'm just trying out an idea to see how it holds up in real life, then I'll incorporate it into my own understanding of how something works.

[anndelise]

This video is in response to different subtyping methods, and includes a small portion of answer to @Gilly's question about Se role. It also includes at the end, a simple, not well thought out example of how the different methods might be applied to show possible differences between @Galen, @Kim, @Slacker, @WorkaholicsAnonymous, and me. (please don't take the examples as anything firm).

Warning: I was extremely tired, and trying to learn a new program. But too tired to reedit and reedit, and the program doesn't let me see it all together. So..basically...quality sux...and boring as hell.