Helping Enneagram Type 6 with anxiety

[Miso Soup]

Any advice?

My mom, and one of my closest friends are both obvious E6s. They are very dependent on their friends and family, very loyal, etc. and very, very anxious.

I have tried with no avail to calm their anxiety. I have explained as rationally and reassuringly as I can that there is no reason for them to worry as much as they do. They both are not at any risk of becoming homeless, friendless, losing their job (in the case of my mom), or failing out of college (in the case of my friend), but they seem to endlessly worry about just those things. Or anything else that could potentially be a problem. My friend has resorted to pills to help her anxiety, and it has somehow led to intense memory loss, to the point that she can't remember most of her childhood. I believe it would be better for her to try some kind of therapy. I'm no therapist, but she can't afford therapy, so I'm hoping that some of the 6s around here (or anyone knowledgeable about enneagram) could give me some advice?

As an E6, what are some things that, were they said to you (or done for you, etc), would calm you down immensely during times of stress? And do you have any idea why my attempts at reassurance have no effect? More details can be given if necessary.

Unrelated pictures are also welcome.

[Raver]

I'm a possible 6w7 so my take on this is that only a couple things have really helped in lowering anxiety. Number one is meditation and I notice a big difference on the days I do meditate and the days I don't. It's like night and day almost really, Jekyll and Hyde. Next is exercise and not only does it lower one's anxiety, but it also does an excellent job at improving mood. The last is taking vitamins and the ones that seemed to help for me are Omega 3 and Vitamin B12, but it takes at least several weeks to begin noticing a difference.

[jet city woman]

Face your fears head on. And win. It's all about that. Keep trying until you beat your fears. If you have a fear, figure out how to beat it. The anxiety will never go away but you can alleviate the fears that cause it, one by one by one by one by one bye one bye one lol. And one day you will find yourself free

[aixelsyd]

x2 What Raver said. Ever since I began pushing my physical limitations, I have felt a sense of accomplishment and a peace of mind I lacked prior. Exercise, movement does a being good. I admit I haven't done much meditation, but the times I have, it has helped. I think a balance between activity and inactivity of those kinds can bring a person to a certain equilibrium. I also find utilizing talents and hobbies help such as writing, music, art...to create and to have something tangible to show for one's capabilities. Confidence, after all, counteracts the otherwise overwhelming anxiety.

source: being E6

[Miso Soup]

I'm a possible 6w7 so my take on this is that only a couple things have really helped in lowering anxiety. Number one is meditation and I notice a big difference on the days I do meditate and the days I don't. It's like night and day almost really, Jekyll and Hyde. Next is exercise and not only does it lower one's anxiety, but it also does an excellent job at improving mood. The last is taking vitamins and the ones that seemed to help for me are Omega 3 and Vitamin B12, but it takes at least several weeks to begin noticing a difference.

Aggh! I have told her to try meditation so many times, but she never listens. I even bought her a meditations KIT, and I don't think she's even opened it. I doubt she would exercise. She's very into remedies like vitamins and the like, so I will recommend her those vitamins. Thank you!

Pills usually make things worse. When I was taking benzos I think half of my brain just disappeared not to mention my anxiety was thru the rough when I tried to stop taking it. The things that help me are distractions, helping me see how negative I'm being and getting me out of my head by telling me how ridiculous I'm being...making things lighthearted and joking about it helps also and helping me see the future in a positive light usually always bring me peace of mind and a more positive outlook.

Thank you! She definitely uses distractions - youtube videos are her favorite. I will try lightheartedness. That actually never occurred to me - I usually automatically take a serious explanatory front when she greets me with her problems.

From my experience with E6s, I'd say just be their friend. If anxieties show up, try a lighthearted laugh at the absurdities. If they aren't absurd, find a logical solution. I'm sure you can do that.

Lightheartedness again, good. And yep, definitely got the logical thing covered. Thanks!

Face your fears head on. And win. It's all about that. Keep trying until you beat your fears. If you have a fear, figure out how to beat it. The anxiety will never go away but you can alleviate the fears that cause it, one by one by one by one by one bye one bye one lol.

She's actually very good at this, but she still worries! Haha, I don't understand it. I think that this could either be the solution, or would just result in an endless battle, constantly finding new things to worry about and new problems to solve, almost in an OCD-like way. Hopefully though, she would just become stronger, so strong that new problems would look like bugs to her - easily squashed.

[jessica129]

Do people find it amusing though? Or exhausting to deal with? I sometimes feel my dramatics annoy others and burn them out. I would personally think it's cute and funny to a certain extent.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Do people find it amusing though? Or exhausting to deal with? I sometimes feel my dramatics annoy others and burn them out. I would personally think it's cute and funny to a certain extent.

The 6s eternal self-debate, lol? It is easy for me to detach and reattach. It seems helpful for the ones that I do know that even though I am not consistant, I will always be there with them in the abstract sense of the meaning.

[jet city woman]

Yeayeayea, the thing is, that I find that many other types act on anxiety/worry and go ape bat shit over normal situations that I don't feel any abnormal anxiety over. The more i watch people, the more I realize that it's relative. It's not about type as much as it is about individuals and the way their senses, emotions, and minds work together with experience/situation.

[Roro]

To be honest, I usually prefer to just be left alone and try to figure things out on my own. For the most part, words of encouragement, exercising, meditation, etc. don't help me that much. Luckily, I think I'm pretty calm for the most part - I typically only start to feel a lot of anxiety when there is too much 'chaos' or 'instability' in my external world. But I continuously and frantically search for solutions until everything is stable again. It works.

[Miso Soup]

There isn't much constructive you can do with E6s to assuage their anxieties once they breach critical mass, except leave them alone, let them burn themselves out, and hope they come back intact to their senses.

Interesting. That actually reminds me of my behavior as an E5. I will work obsessively on finding a solution to whatever problem I'm interested in at whatever moment, and there's really nothing anyone can do to convince me not to, until I get tired, or realize that it doesn't matter or I'm not going to solve it any time soon.

It's almost like the same inner tension that exists inside us all is perceived or felt differently by each E type, and dealt with in accordingly different ways.

I hope that's not an accidental regurgitation of basic enneagram theory.

Do people find it amusing though? Or exhausting to deal with? I sometimes feel my dramatics annoy others and burn them out. I would personally think it's cute and funny to a certain extent.

I don't mind that she comes to me with her problems, though I find it frustrating when she ignores my advice. It's not that she doesn't take it. I understand she has the right to do as she pleases. But she doesn't even comment on it. I have no idea if I'm helping her or not.

To be honest, I usually prefer to just be left alone and try to figure things out on my own. For the most part, words of encouragement, exercising, meditation, etc. don't help me that much. Luckily, I think I'm pretty calm for the most part - I typically only start to feel a lot of anxiety when there is too much 'chaos' or 'instability' in my external world. But I continuously and frantically search for solutions until everything is stable again. It works.

I think she feels different about being left alone, because she'll usually mention to me that she's stressed, which leads me to believe she wants help. Who knows, maybe she just wants to talk about it. Hmm.

[jessica129]

Does enneagram have 'duals'? If so, what's a 6's dual? lol

[Gilly]

There isn't much constructive you can do with E6s to assuage their anxieties once they breach critical mass, except leave them alone, let them burn themselves out, and hope they come back intact to their senses.

True but you have to let them vent to a certain extent or else they will just stew and fester in their own paranoia, and become overly calculating and distant.

[jessica129]

Pills usually make things worse. When I was taking benzos I think half of my brain just disappeared not to mention my anxiety was thru the rough when I tried to stop taking it. The things that help me are distractions, helping me see how negative I'm being and getting me out of my head by telling me how ridiculous I'm being...making things lighthearted and joking about it helps also and helping me see the future in a positive light usually always bring me peace of mind and a more positive outlook.

[DirectorAbbie]

From my experience with E6s, I'd say just be their friend. If anxieties show up, try a lighthearted laugh at the absurdities. If they aren't absurd, find a logical solution. I'm sure you can do that.

[jessica129]

From my experience with E6s, I'd say just be their friend. If anxieties show up, try a lighthearted laugh at the absurdities.

Yeah sometimes I don't realize how overly dramatic I'm being and it's usually hilarious when someone notices and calls me out on it and brings me back to reality. Sometimes you can just get too stuck in your head.

[Beautiful sky]

I think, knowing their socionics types would be more helpful, honestly.

Generally speaking anxiety is an emotion that can be used to effectively help someone deal with their problems and even build creative ways to come out of them; however, anxiety can be quite dangerous for introverts who pull further and further into their thoughts, ignoring external activity of things and this is where determining if they are E or I is helpful.

[Miso Soup]

I think, knowing their socionics types would be more helpful, honestly.

Generally speaking anxiety is an emotion that can be used to effectively help someone deal with their problems and even build creative ways to come out of them; however, anxiety can be quite dangerous for introverts who pull further and further into their thoughts, ignoring external activity of things and this is where determining if they are E or I is helpful.

That's a good point (about anxiety being useful). But her's is too strong. Her anxiety is so strong that a chemical is released in her stomach which eats away at the lining of it, so it's actually dangerous for her not to take her medication. I think it does help her overcome her problems, but she needs to find a way to subside it once its uses have been exhausted.

I unfortunately do not know her socionic type.

[Beautiful sky]

I have explained as rationally and reassuringly as I can that there is no reason for them to worry as much as they do.

That is what you're doing wrong.

If these individuals are Fe base types they don't need Te they need Ti.

[Miso Soup]

That is what you're doing wrong.

Why do you believe that?

[Beautiful sky]

Why do you believe that?

I understand IBS and extreme cases of anxiety induced autonomic nerous system responses. The reason why I said the approach is wrong is because you've used it to no avail. Reason goes to show that if you use something/some method a few times, and it doesn't work, likely you should try another method. You are a Te base type, you strive to solve a problem with "well, this is what you should do" or "do this, this and this." These are things to do. Typing them will help you determine if they need Ti instead of Te. Ti helps sort out thoughts into categories rather than giving a solution and allows the person to reach a solution themselves; that's one approach.

You focus on cause and effect too much. Try some other methods.

[Creepy-male]

Anxiety is the worse, I'm relatively calm but occasionally it can surge up like a storm, most of the time its honestly other people. Something that they say or do doesn't sit right with me and I worry about it, it usually is intensified by considering what their actions or ideas would mean if it spread rapidly through society like a mass outbreak. Things I'm most anxious about:

1) cults and people that want to indoctrinate you
2) mob justice and lynching
3) character assassination in mass media
4) people being disingenuous and phony to get something out of me
5) people attempting to emotionally manipulate me or control me
6) being accused of something I didn't do and being powerless to prove my innocence
7) dying of something stupid by taking an unnecessary risk
8) being condemned to a fixed social role (especially a negative one)
9) being attacked or exploited when I am vulnerable or weak
10) people taking credit for my actions or ideas due to superior social standing
11) being fully isolated from other people
12) coming across too "haughty", "arrogant" or "victimy" to other people

[Miso Soup]

Anxiety is the worse, I'm relatively calm but occasionally it can surge up like a storm, most of the time its honestly other people. Something that they say or do doesn't sit right with me and I worry about it, it usually is intensified by considering what their actions or ideas would mean if it spread rapidly through society like a mass outbreak. Things I'm most anxious about:

1) cults and people that want to indoctrinate you

3) character assassination in mass media
4) people being disingenuous and phony to get something out of me
5) people attempting to emotionally manipulate me or control me
6) being accused of something I didn't do and being powerless to prove my innocence
7) dying of something stupid by taking an unnecessary risk
8) being condemned to a fixed social role (especially a negative one)
9) being attacked or exploited when I am vulnerable or weak
10) people taking credit for my actions or ideas due to superior social standing

12) coming across too "haughty", "arrogant" or "victimy" to other people

These things are all strongly indicative of being E8.
I also relate to them, especially the phobia of being manipulated and casually exploited by people I associate with. God.
8 is second in my tritype.

[Miso Soup]

I understand IBS and extreme cases of anxiety induced autonomic nerous system responses. The reason why I said the approach is wrong is because you've used it to no avail. Reason goes to show that if you use something/some method a few times, and it doesn't work, likely you should try another method. You are a Te base type, you strive to solve a problem with "well, this is what you should do" or "do this, this and this." These are things to do. Typing them will help you determine if they need Ti instead of Te. Ti helps sort out thoughts into categories rather than giving a solution and allows the person to reach a solution themselves; that's one approach.

You focus on cause and effect too much. Try some other methods.

Ah, okay. I think she values Fe. That's a start.

[Beautiful sky]

Ah, okay. I think she values Fe. That's a start.

Ok, Fe types need to trust you. Even if you think they trust you, they may not fully trust you enough to say everything to you and if they do they may just tell you things in parts. The way to go about dealing with the Fe type is to listen to all of their problems and don't think of the solution. Try to differentiate their emotions and what objects those emotions are following. A familiar example is an Fe type young lady fell in love with a certain gentleman and he broke up with her after some time; her emotions followed him. The object being him; she expressed her emotions in vivid tones, laughing, joking, very lively and bold kinds. They are interjected with question of thought. "Do you think he still thinks about me?" The proper responses to them include well this or that, in category formation with some hint of what may happen if this or that; he is thinking of you and he is not thinking of you; these things show he's thinking of you and if he is these things will result; he is not and these will result. The objective is to paint the inner thought process, to enhance it and bring it into a conception (or conceptual thought) thereby discharging the emotional tie to the object and focusing it back into the person's thought. You have to paint the picture from both perspectives in order for it to be a concept because what tends to happen with Fe is that they latch on to their emotions and judge so harshly only thinking of one hyper-exaggerated judgment and thought.

[anndelise]

Any advice?

My mom, and one of my closest friends are both obvious E6s. They are very dependent on their friends and family, very loyal, etc. and very, very anxious.

I have tried with no avail to calm their anxiety. I have explained as rationally and reassuringly as I can that there is no reason for them to worry as much as they do. They both are not at any risk of becoming homeless, friendless, losing their job (in the case of my mom), or failing out of college (in the case of my friend), but they seem to endlessly worry about just those things. Or anything else that could potentially be a problem. My friend has resorted to pills to help her anxiety, and it has somehow led to intense memory loss, to the point that she can't remember most of her childhood. I believe it would be better for her to try some kind of therapy. I'm no therapist, but she can't afford therapy, so I'm hoping that some of the 6s around here (or anyone knowledgeable about enneagram) could give me some advice?

As an E6, what are some things that, were they said to you (or done for you, etc), would calm you down immensely during times of stress? And do you have any idea why my attempts at reassurance have no effect? More details can be given if necessary.

Unrelated pictures are also welcome.

Platitudes (assurances that everything is ok and nothing is wrong) are meaningless. You can't guarantee anything unless you have a) inside knowledge AND b) the willingness and ability to control the situation which they are anxious about.

Ime, it helps to have a few game plans that I can fall back on. I may never ever need them, but just knowing ahead of time what my options may be, helps me tremendously.

For example: one of my absolute biggest fears right now is what happens to me and my 16yo daughter IF something happens to Richard? The house is in his name. We aren't married. And his savings and monetary stuff all go to his sister. I'm on an extremely limited income but gave up my housing assistance (they paid most my housing rent) so that he and I could live with each other. It takes over four years to get back on the list for an opening. My income wouldn't be able to even afford the base monthly payments, certainly not the insurance, maintenance and repairs, nor yearly fees, etc. Nor would it cover the costs to travel into town and back to work a job...not that I can even hold a job...there's a reason I am on social security disability.

Now, I've been homeless before, and am not afraid to be homeless again. However, things would be different. I'd have a teen to take care of, dress, get to school, worry about child services and custody shit, etc. i also have physical health issues now that I didn,t have the first two times I was homeless.

Basically...IF something were to happen to him, I'm completely and utterly screwed.

So I spend a lot of time and energy trying to figure out a game plan. Cuz face it...while I'm losing everything, all my much needed stability...I'll also be dealing with the loss of him. It's a very scary thought!! And there is no way in hell that ANYone can guarantee that it won't happen! So telling me not to worry about it is akin to telling me you (the person saying it) doesn't grasp the emmensity of what I'd be facing...OR..ya don't give a shit what happens to me.

So, how am I dealing with it? By trying to figure out a list of options and resources that would be available to me should it be needed. Such as...
* obtaining now a working, reliable vehicle which I could sleep in, such as a minivan w seats that can form a bed, or seats that can be removed and a storage/bedding area built. (like what my dad had done with his van for camping purposes)
* a list of possible parking places that would be legal and safe to sleep at
* a list of ways to feed us both, without requiring a fridge, freezer, stove, etc.
* a list of ways to access bathrooms, showers, drinking water, etc.
* developing skills and/or obtaining knowledge which might be useful/needed
* obtaining physical resources that would be needed, and have them readily available, now...while I have the monetary funding to obtain them
*etc etc

Basically...having a game plan or two, or three...


Ask them. If [insert fear], what would that mean to them? How would that change their life? And what kinds of resources do they expect would be needed?...and which of those do they have now?...and which are they willing to obtain/learn so they would be better prepared?

Have them prioritize the necessity of each resource in relation to the other ideas they have of it. If they had resource A but not B, or B but not A...which would be more important to have prepared?

Then have them keep this list...or keep remaking it as needed...and try to get them to focus on obtaining the necessary ones, one at a time.

Ok, so you're worried about what might happen if you fail college. What do you anticipate would happen if you failed college? How would your life change? What kinds of ACTIONS can you take to allieviate the problems of those changes? What kinds of actions can you take to reduce the risks of failing college?....and gradually narrow things down until they have a list of actions they can take now...or if it happens. (actions may include researching needed information...or talking with an experienced person)


-------
Be careful though. You are not responsible for other people unless you personally accept and take on that responsibility. These are THEIR concerns, THEIR emotions, and THEIR thoughts/etc. If they are functioning adults, they need to learn to be functioning adults. Asking questions designed to help them plan out a safety net is one thing...offering to do the work for them, or carry the brunt of their safety on your shoulders...is not good for YOUR health!

[Miso Soup]

Platitudes (assurances that everything is ok and nothing is wrong) are meaningless. You can't guarantee anything unless you have a) inside knowledge AND b) the willingness and ability to control the situation which they are anxious about.

Ime, it helps to have a few game plans that I can fall back on. I may never ever need them, but just knowing ahead of time what my options may be, helps me tremendously.

For example: one of my absolute biggest fears right now is what happens to me and my 16yo daughter IF something happens to Richard? The house is in his name. We aren't married. And his savings and monetary stuff all go to his sister. I'm on an extremely limited income but gave up my housing assistance (they paid most my housing rent) so that he and I could live with each other. It takes over four years to get back on the list for an opening. My income wouldn't be able to even afford the base monthly payments, certainly not the insurance, maintenance and repairs, nor yearly fees, etc. Nor would it cover the costs to travel into town and back to work a job...not that I can even hold a job...there's a reason I am on social security disability.

Now, I've been homeless before, and am not afraid to be homeless again. However, things would be different. I'd have a teen to take care of, dress, get to school, worry about child services and custody shit, etc. i also have physical health issues now that I didn,t have the first two times I was homeless.

Basically...IF something were to happen to him, I'm completely and utterly screwed.

So I spend a lot of time and energy trying to figure out a game plan. Cuz face it...while I'm losing everything, all my much needed stability...I'll also be dealing with the loss of him. It's a very scary thought!! And there is no way in hell that ANYone can guarantee that it won't happen! So telling me not to worry about it is akin to telling me you (the person saying it) doesn't grasp the emmensity of what I'd be facing...OR..ya don't give a shit what happens to me.

So, how am I dealing with it? By trying to figure out a list of options and resources that would be available to me should it be needed. Such as...
* obtaining now a working, reliable vehicle which I could sleep in, such as a minivan w seats that can form a bed, or seats that can be removed and a storage/bedding area built. (like what my dad had done with his van for camping purposes)
* a list of possible parking places that would be legal and safe to sleep at
* a list of ways to feed us both, without requiring a fridge, freezer, stove, etc.
* a list of ways to access bathrooms, showers, drinking water, etc.
* developing skills and/or obtaining knowledge which might be useful/needed
* obtaining physical resources that would be needed, and have them readily available, now...while I have the monetary funding to obtain them
*etc etc

Basically...having a game plan or two, or three...


Ask them. If [insert fear], what would that mean to them? How would that change their life? And what kinds of resources do they expect would be needed?...and which of those do they have now?...and which are they willing to obtain/learn so they would be better prepared?

Have them prioritize the necessity of each resource in relation to the other ideas they have of it. If they had resource A but not B, or B but not A...which would be more important to have prepared?

Then have them keep this list...or keep remaking it as needed...and try to get them to focus on obtaining the necessary ones, one at a time.

Ok, so you're worried about what might happen if you fail college. What do you anticipate would happen if you failed college? How would your life change? What kinds of ACTIONS can you take to allieviate the problems of those changes? What kinds of actions can you take to reduce the risks of failing college?....and gradually narrow things down until they have a list of actions they can take now...or if it happens. (actions may include researching needed information...or talking with an experienced person)


-------
Be careful though. You are not responsible for other people unless you personally accept and take on that responsibility. These are THEIR concerns, THEIR emotions, and THEIR thoughts/etc. If they are functioning adults, they need to learn to be functioning adults. Asking questions designed to help them plan out a safety net is one thing...offering to do the work for them, or carry the brunt of their safety on your shoulders...is not good for YOUR health!

Thank you. I have a feeling that this would tremendously help my mom. Her main fear she brings up is very similar to yours: "What would happen to you (meaning me) IF something happened to me?" So the gameplan wouldn't help with that particular fear, but in her others - losing her job, having to move again (which she will, because she has to sell her house to be able to afford her debt), having to find another job. I now plan to follow your advice for her, though not for my friend, as she's "not a future thinker." She doesn't like it when I give her advice relating to future investments.

[Beautiful sky]

Thank you. I have a feeling that this would tremendously help my mom. Her main fear she brings up is very similar to yours: "What would happen to you (meaning me) IF something happened to me?" So the gameplan wouldn't help with that particular fear, but in her others - losing her job, having to move again (which she will, because she has to sell her house to be able to afford her debt), having to find another job. I now plan to follow your advice for her, though not for my friend, as she's "not a future thinker." She doesn't like it when I give her advice relating to future investments.

But, if your mom was an Ne type she would have game plans to fall back on too; this won't work in her case.

[Galen]

I wrote a post about how E6s operate on EIDB recently:

My take on the subject is that 6s are inherently, and oft times uncontrollably, distrustful of their own abilities, which they can then project onto the world around them. As a 6 myself, I often find the greatest solace to whatever problems I'm fabricating in my mind is that "whatever bull[blocked] comes along, I am strong enough and capable enough to deal with it." 6s habitually lose track of their own abilities to deal with the world, capabilities which are often always there in the first place but can't be cognitively grasped onto. In this way 6s mentally project their own inability to comprehend their strength onto themselves, causing them to view themselves as completely subsumed in external circumstances they have no say in; you'll find a lot of 6 artists and songwriters moaning about things that are happening to them as if they have immediately caved into the demands that the world pushes upon them. Conversely, this projection of superiority onto the outside world can cause the 6 to grow restless and needing to break free from whatever is pushing them down; most people know this as the counterphobic variant.

In this way, I don't see the 6 fixations so much based in fear in and of itself, as I've seen lots of people describe. Rather, I posit that as with all attachment triad types (3, 6, 9), the 6s main problem deals with self-forgetting and nebulousness. For 3s, the self-image or identity is the nebulous, ungraspable thing; 9s habitually forget their own desires; and 6s have difficulty grasping onto their problem-solving capabilities. I don't see the characteristic 6 anxiety as the primary issue as much as it is merely a symptom of the core neurosis.

In short, E6 anxiety stems from lack of confidence in their own capabilities to deal with the world. When this happens, they forget about their own abilities and instead aggrandize the circumstances around them that bring them down, in turn justifying to themselves that they're helpless to do anything about it. The more they focus on the outside world, the more ungrounded and reactive they become.

Personally, the only real solace I can find in moments like these is to know that while there may be problems facing me, I am indeed strong enough to overcome them. By knowing full well what it is I want out of life, it becomes that much easier to place the external problems into context and deal with them accordingly. When a 6 is more entranced, it becomes that much harder to understand what he/she truly needs, so something from within has to break that cycle and take action to ensure that his/her desires come to fruition.

[jessica129]

I don't like being E6, I want a new type.

[anndelise]

@Galen's post brings up another option, that of asking them about times when they've dealt successful with either a similar situation...or an intense situation. This helps remind them that they HAVE survived and gotten through scary/stressful times, which also helps build up their confidence.

----
The big thing is...their answers and possible solutions have to come from themselves...not from you telling them what to do. The most you can do, realistically, is try to guide their mind towards something more productive or solution oriented.

[Miso Soup]

@Galen's post brings up another option, that of asking them about times when they've dealt successful with either a similar situation...or an intense situation. This helps remind them that they HAVE survived and gotten through scary/stressful times, which also helps build up their confidence.

----
The big thing is...their answers and possible solutions have to come from themselves...not from you telling them what to do. The most you can do, realistically, is try to guide their mind towards something more productive or solution oriented.

haha wow! I just had the same idea in response to Galen's post. Then I scroll up and see it in your comment. Guess we're on the same page.

[Miso Soup]

I wrote a post about how E6s operate on EIDB recently:


In short, E6 anxiety stems from lack of confidence in their own capabilities to deal with the world. When this happens, they forget about their own abilities and instead aggrandize the circumstances around them that bring them down, in turn justifying to themselves that they're helpless to do anything about it. The more they focus on the outside world, the more ungrounded and reactive they become.

Personally, the only real solace I can find in moments like these is to know that while there may be problems facing me, I am indeed strong enough to overcome them. By knowing full well what it is I want out of life, it becomes that much easier to place the external problems into context and deal with them accordingly. When a 6 is more entranced, it becomes that much harder to understand what he/she truly needs, so something from within has to break that cycle and take action to ensure that his/her desires come to fruition.

Yes!! Ahh! This is so true!
1. She has told me multiple times that she sees herself as being a weak person - that she admires me for being strong. Meanwhile I'm thinking, what are you talking about? I have done nothing that shows any more strength than you, other than having confidence in what strength I do have.
2. She talks about her family as if they own her - as if she has no say in what they decide for her and her life.
3. She asks me what I think of her personality, often. I suppose this could be a way she copes with her self-forgetting. She is extremely forgetful in general. I will repeat what I said before, that she has very little memory of her childhood. She asks me about how she was when she was younger as well. I answer her questions, but have always been puzzled by them.

In regards to your comment on how to overcome the anxiety, although I can't think for her, I will try to coax these kinds of thoughts out of her the next time she comes to me with her problems.

Thank you!

[jessica129]

3. She asks me what I think of her personality, often. I suppose this could be a way she copes with her self-forgetting. She is extremely forgetful in general. I will repeat what I said before, that she has very little memory of her childhood. She asks me about how she was when she was younger as well. I answer her questions, but have always been puzzled by them.

I have the same problem with memory. I honestly don't know if it's because I was on those pills for 3 years or if it's something related to anxiety. My childhood and teenage years and even some of my 20's is really hard for me to remember....like there's a few key points I remember but it's still cloudy and just seems like a blur. I'm also extremely forgetful when it comes to simple things like managing to get out of the house without forgetting a trillion things..i attribute that to thinking about so damn much all the time. It's such a curse.

[Creepy-pokeball]

#E6WorldProblems lol

[Creepy-pokeball]

What, lol...

[Absurd]

Man, to help someone with their anxiety probably requires that you understand it on an existential level. AKA this shit is kind of personal for each E6.

...although alcohol and drugs can probably help everyone on a superficial level, if it doesn't become an addiction.

ugh

Alcohol is a depressant and so are drugs that are used to slow down brain activity. It can become an addiction easily for you need larger does every time to achieve the same effects.

[strangeling]

Alcohol is a depressant and so are drugs that are used to slow down brain activity. It can become an addiction easily for you need larger does every time to achieve the same effects.

...yeah, I guess you're right.

[Beautiful sky]

Your mom sounds like ISTp

[Miso Soup]

Ok, Fe types need to trust you. Even if you think they trust you, they may not fully trust you enough to say everything to you and if they do they may just tell you things in parts. The way to go about dealing with the Fe type is to listen to all of their problems and don't think of the solution. Try to differentiate their emotions and what objects those emotions are following. A familiar example is an Fe type young lady fell in love with a certain gentleman and he broke up with her after some time; her emotions followed him. The object being him; she expressed her emotions in vivid tones, laughing, joking, very lively and bold kinds. They are interjected with question of thought. "Do you think he still thinks about me?" The proper responses to them include well this or that, in category formation with some hint of what may happen if this or that; he is thinking of you and he is not thinking of you; these things show he's thinking of you and if he is these things will result; he is not and these will result. The objective is to paint the inner thought process, to enhance it and bring it into a conception (or conceptual thought) thereby discharging the emotional tie to the object and focusing it back into the person's thought. You have to paint the picture from both perspectives in order for it to be a concept because what tends to happen with Fe is that they latch on to their emotions and judge so harshly only thinking of one hyper-exaggerated judgment and thought.

I have always doubted that she trusted me fully, even though I've been her friend for 8 years. I suspect her memory loss would have some affect on her ability to trust, as well.

Your mom sounds like ISTp

That's actually what I've always suspected her type to be; she's always talking about her health, what she's been eating, how cozy or warm different articles of clothing she has are, the soreness of her body... she is completely indifferent to the social atmosphere. She can express her feelings and sentiments, and she definitely does, but she has little care for how it affects the moods of others, or how it relates to the prevalent atmosphere. My friends have made jokes about her icy stare before.

Oh and she's always coming up with CREATIVE ways of making the household more efficient or structured ("I turned this random piece of wood I pulled out of who-knows-where into a dowel to hang towels on that somehow fits magically in this space where no dowel has ever dreamed of fitting")

[Animal]

I believe it would be better for her to try some kind of therapy. I'm no therapist, but she can't afford therapy, so I'm hoping that some of the 6s around here (or anyone knowledgeable about enneagram) could give me some advice?

Well, here. Here is basically what a good therapist would help your friend and mother understand and work on.

1.) Fear is a natural response to life's uncertainty. Neurologically speaking, it is found in the amygdala -- an ancient part of the brain that evolved long before the parts of the brain devoted to analytical thinking (the neocortex). The amygdala is responsible for emotional memories. In the past, it would help protect us from immediate threats which required and immediate fight/flight response: a lion or other predator, a steep cliff up ahead, finding ourselves in an open field during a dangerous thunderstorm, etc. The amygdala would store the sense of threat and activate whatever coping mechanism had helped us survive: hiding or placating; fighting or reacting in anger; freezing or disidentifying.

When a situation triggers our sense of threat, the amygdala floods the body with stress hormones (cortisol, adrenaline, etc.), which in turn triggers the associated bodily sensations, which then trigger sour minds to activate the problem-solving mode. The thoughts feed on the feelings ("I feel afraid, therefore them must be something terribly wrong about to happen."), and the sense of threat is perpetuated by the panicked thinking ("I'll never get over this! This is how it will always be!") It becomes a vicious cycle.

2.) Pain x Resistance = Suffering. So we know that uncertainty, discomfort, pain, and loss are an inevitable part of being human. Bad things do happen. In life, we cannot always avoid pain. We can, however, avoid suffering. Suffering is born out of the unwillingness to experience pain. Some psychologists actually define anxiety as "fear of fear" -- an unwillingness to tolerate life's ambiguities and the consequent (and natural) unease that results from that.

Fighting that protective mechanism serves only to perpetuate the sense of warfare. Implicit in making an enemy of the Inner Protector is making an enemy of yourself. Subconciously, you are sending yourself the message that you are bad, you are to blame for your feelings, you are wrong to be feeling and thinking in this way... and it just makes you feel worse.

The alternative is to bring an attitude of what's called "radical acceptance." Anxiety is a full-body experience, and will need to be accepted on all fronts: mental, physical, and emotional. Here is a good description of how therapists teach their patients to neutralize aniety attacks.

3.) Befriend the Inner Protector. Sometimes psychologists will personify a certain recurring emotion to make it more manageable -- give it a voice, a name, a personality. In the case of anxiety, that voice is trying to protect you. Oftentimes, it is the voice of a part of you still imprisoned in childhood's sense of vulnerability. I call him "the Inner Protector" because he remembers frightening situations from childhood and anticipates the threat of them occurring in the present. Oftentimes, the Inner Protector will take on a critical tone: perhaps he remembers the painful punishing voice of a parent or teacher or bully and recreates that voice to make you avoid putting yourself in that situation again. Or else he will project those painful voices and messages from the past onto other people in the present. This recreates a sense of the old threat in your mind-body complex: the same thoughts and bodily sensations of shame or panic or demoralization or sadness take you over.

But beneath that is fear. The Inner Protector doesn't want you to get hurt again. He's like a shell-shocked, overzealous security guard, who sees threats everywhere. Respond to him as if he were a child. In therapy, you would probably be encouraged to even have a dialogue with him. It's important to maintain an attitude of kindness and understanding, but also maintain a sense of your adult-self. Examples of this form of self-talk:

- "I see you're worried and feeling frightened and vulnerable. What are you trying to protect me from? What situation from the past are you afraid will happen again?"

- "You're really feeding me some awful painful thoughts. This is only making me miserable. I realize you're only trying to help, but can we figure out a different, more helpful and kinder way of dealing with this?"

- "Perhaps my life DOES suck right now. Perhaps I HAVE really messed things up. But, things are as they are. My life is as it is. Worrying about what I can no longer change isn't going to help. However bad my life is right now, I'm going to have to deal with it."

- "A lot of this situation was the result of doing what you wanted me to do. A lot of it was me trying to hide or act out or distract myself. I don't blame you one bit. You were only trying to protect me, and I totally understand where you are coming from, and how you could feel afraid and lonely and vulnerable. But, it would be a good idea now to try to find a more helpful way of dealing with things. It's not good for either of us to live like this. It only makes our problems worse. Let's try and make life better for us in the future."

It may seem gimmicky or crazy at first, but this is really a form of cognitive restructuring: the same principle that informs cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT). It's a form of meta-cognition (thinking about thinking) which can help you de-center (step out of identification with your "small self"). This is how we move beyond old habits of thinking -- we need to establish a new relationship with ourselves and with our world. We need to allow ourselves to relearn our model of reality, of our world, and of ourselves. Our conception of ourselves and reality need not be arrested at what they were in childhood or adolescence. There is still much we have yet to learn. You don't have your final answer until the day you die.

Unrelated pictures are welcome.

How about this one?: