The Avengers

[JWC3]

I'm not talking about a line in the movie, I'm talking about the image that he projects -- a charming, socially adept, womanizing playboy type. That's obvious from the Iron Man movies and this one. Tony says "I don't play well with others", not because he lacks social skills (he has those in abundance), but because he prefers to work independently. It's his Irrational dislike of being confined to an orderly Rational group. Basically he's saying he doesn't like following the rules, which is understandable for an EP type.

In unfamiliar social situations Tony is cool, confident, and cocky, like an SEE. Not awkward, stumbling, and oblivious like an ILE usually is in unfamiliar social situations.

[Edit: An SLE in unfamiliar social situations tends to cover up his weak social skills either by putting on a show of "toughness", either by being aggressive or by being dispassionate. Alternately, a more mature SLE may simply admit his weak social skills. In general, their social skills are more crude and blunt than those displayed by Iron Man.]

I mean it wasn't just a line in the movie, and he doesn't say it about himself. He read it in his profile from the avengers program so yes he physically said the words, but it is an objective assessment of him as a human being by the other characters in the universe.

[stray]

Stark acts like he does because he's an alky. When a lot of these Marvel characters came out, they had some very human flaws (Peter Parker - Geek, Daredevil is blind, etc). In his case, he's a cool, but self destructive drunk. Not necessarily a social butterfly.

[redbaron]

Stark acts like he does because he's an alky. When a lot of these Marvel characters came out, they had some very human flaws (Peter Parker - Geek, Daredevil is blind, etc). In his case, he's a cool, but self destructive drunk. Not necessarily a social butterfly.

Interesting. I did not know this.

[strangeling]

In unfamiliar social situations Tony is cool, confident, and cocky, like an SEE. Not awkward, stumbling, and oblivious like an ILE usually is in unfamiliar social situations.

He kind of has to be though. He's iron man! And a billionaire genius! If you feel like the distinction is noteworthy to base a type on, then what would you say an ILE under those circumstances would act like? Since you'd have to know to compare.

But in terms of information aspects, do you think Tony Stark lines up with SEE? What about information metabolism? I find contradictions myself between them, so I thought it would be worth at least hearing why you think one aspect is more important than another.

[Krig the Viking]

I mean it wasn't just a line in the movie, and he doesn't say it about himself. He read it in his profile from the avengers program so yes he physically said the words, but it is an objective assessment of him as a human being by the other characters in the universe.

Well, he also says it about himself later in the movie, but either way, the line is referring to his impulsive, non-rule-following EP nature, which doesn't fit into the hierarchical structure of a quasi-military organization like SHIELD.

He kind of has to be though. He's iron man! And a billionaire genius! If you feel like the distinction is noteworthy to base a type on, then what would you say an ILE under those circumstances would act like? Since you'd have to know to compare.

But in terms of information aspects, do you think Tony Stark lines up with SEE? What about information metabolism? I find contradictions myself between them, so I thought it would be worth at least hearing why you think one aspect is more important than another.

Imagine Doc Brown from Back to the Future had invented the Iron Man armour, and you'll have a better idea of how I think an ILE would behave under those circumstances. Similar energy levels, similar impulsiveness, etc., due to them both being EP types, but Doc is rather absent-minded and oblivious to normal human social interaction, whereas Tony is cocky, stylish, cynical, and very socially engaged.

In terms of the information elements:

Gamma Se: Wealth, status, social power. Tony is always showing off his wealth, asserting his high social status (his "billionaire genius playboy philanthropist" line).
Gamma Fi: Individual loyalty, focus on individual relationships and "paying debts" individually. Tony doesn't get caught up in the whole NF "for the cause" emotionality; he's fairly cynical about that sort of thing, actually. His ethics are on an individual level: loyalty to friends.

Alpha Ne: Exploring potential, possibilities, alternatives, different ways of looking for things. Doubt is a big deal to Alpha NTs; they're always looking for alternate possibilities, alternate explanations, and view it as a virtue to doubt their own conclusions. ILEs like Doc Brown are always asking "What if...?" Tony is the opposite of this: cocky, very sure of himself, certain he knows what's going on and how things really are. He tends not to speculate.
Alpha Ti: Logical correctness, logical analysis for the purpose of eliminating logical errors. Even when Tony does "science stuff", it's all practical Te-related "getting stuff done", not Alpha-style "pure research". He's a mechanical engineer, not a research scientist. Contrast to Doc Brown, who invents a time machine as a sort of side-effect of his pure scientific research.

[JWC3]

Well, he also says it about himself later in the movie, but either way, the line is referring to his impulsive, non-rule-following EP nature, which doesn't fit into the hierarchical structure of a quasi-military organization like SHIELD.

Agreed.

[DirectorAbbie]

Imagine Doc Brown from Back to the Future

Oh? I figured him for an intratrim. LII-Ne?

[glam]

Tony Stark/Iron Man is obviously ILE. after nearly dying when redirecting the nuke and falling all the way back to earth, the first thing he asked for was some really good FOOD! his behavior may seem chaotic but you get the feeling he knows exactly what he's doing anyway - an ILE trait.

this describes describes Stark well imo:

The other main peculiarity of ENTps behaviour is the ability to mobilise in extreme conditions. If somebody puts pressure on them they immediately counterattack, often with more than equal force. They also like to give people advice on how to extricate themselves from difficult entanglements, often proposing the most radical solutions.

i think LII is better for Bruce Banner/Hulk. he doesn't like losing control, nor does he particularly value or care to attempt to utilize his immense power - he avoids it because it's painful to deal with (Se-vulnerable function). i think if he was IXI (Se-seeking) he would more readily embrace that kind of power. also there was nearly an instant ability to work with, as well as mutual understanding, between himself and Tony Stark, his Mirror.

they were my two favorite characters. everyone else was somewhat meh.

Steve Rogers/Captain America seems like a Gamma of the self-righteous breed, and is also quite stoic (the "strong, silent type"), so ESI works. he's clean-cut, and impeccably & conservatively dressed. i think an Ethical type fits him better because his criticisms against Stark were to question his loyalties & to berate his character (such as calling him out for his selfishness.) those are Fi kinds of criticisms that hit XLE's PoLR.

i agree that Loki is yet another EIE villain; it was the typical "i'm-going-to-take-over-the-world-with-everyone-watching-me-be-dramatic-while-doing-it-so-bow-down-to-me-btw-i'm-insane!" schtick. come up with something new, EIEs!

[stray]

i agree that Loki is yet another EIE villain; it was the typical "i'm-going-to-take-over-the-world-with-everyone-watching-me-be-dramatic-while-doing-it-so-bow-down-to-me-btw-i'm-insane!" schtick. come up with something new, EIEs!

If you're really interested, check out the comic "Thor vs Loki". There's also a digital/semi animated version (can be seen on netflix). For someone who's apparently a conflictor for my type, he's one of my favorite villains. He's a lot more complicated than what you wrote above. The Thor movie kind of gets into it, but essentially, he's been bullied and marginalized his whole life. Thor and friends are spoiled brats and even racist. His story is similar to Magneto from X-Men. Loki is actually a good guy, from a certain perspective. It's not about taking over the world so much as "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[glam]

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

that's another thing about these kinds of EIE villains - they often have some kind of conflicted or tortured past, and they utilize this status of victimhood as justification for what they do, feeling entitled to their quest for power - whatever their intentions may be.

i'm not denying he's a "complex" character - but from what i can see from the film, and given what you told me, in my view Loki still follows a certain villain stereotype (as well as a socionics EIE stereotype).

thanks for the extra info though. i don't really know these characters that well beyond this film and a few others i've seen - i didn't see "Thor".

[stray]

that's another thing about these kinds of EIE villains - they often have some kind of conflicted or tortured past, and they utilize this status of victimhood as justification for what they do, feeling entitled to their quest for power - whatever their intentions may be.

i'm not denying he's a "complex" character - but from what i can see from the film, and given what you told me, in my view Loki still follows a certain villain stereotype (as well as a socionics EIE stereotype).

thanks for the extra info though. i don't really know these characters that well beyond this film and a few others i've seen - i didn't see "Thor".

You're right, it's a stereotype as well. Actually, the myth of Loki and Thor is similar to the comics. There are some comparisons with Prometheus too (who screwed the gods over to benefit mortals). Maybe it's the actual originator of the "emo" anti-hero stereotype.

[Krig the Viking]

Oh? I figured him for an intratrim. LII-Ne?

Doc Brown? An introvert? Why do you think so?

[DirectorAbbie]

Doc Brown? An introvert? Why do you think so?

He seemed like the kind of guy...who had to be reminded that reality existed. Maybe that's an intuitive thing, but he doesn't remind me of an extroverted intuitive. He reminds me of an introverted intuitive. And an Se-PoLR.

[Krig the Viking]

He seemed like the kind of guy...who had to be reminded that reality existed. Maybe that's an intuitive thing, but he doesn't remind me of an extroverted intuitive. He reminds me of an introverted intuitive. And an Se-PoLR.

Yeah, that's definitely an Intuitive thing. That's one reason I'm sure Tony Stark is a Sensing type, because he's very much the opposite of that.

In my opinion, Doc Brown's very high and impulsive energy levels rule out any kind of Introvert and make an EP type almost certain.

[mu4]

Yeah, that's definitely an Intuitive thing. That's one reason I'm sure Tony Stark is a Sensing type, because he's very much the opposite of that.

In my opinion, Doc Brown's very high and impulsive energy levels rule out any kind of Introvert and make an EP type almost certain.

I'm not sure about that, I'm absent minded but I generally feel everything I do is reality based. 8th function. Most ENTp's I've found are only absent minded in the sense they're not paying attention, but not really unable to pay attention and when they do can be good at such a task. role.

Imo, I am paying attention to a part of reality that others aren't, vs a part of reality other people are.

I'm also better at sports/video games and a lot of sensing stuff then others when I try, just I don't usually because it's too much work/time to train.

[redbaron]

that's another thing about these kinds of EIE villains - they often have some kind of conflicted or tortured past, and they utilize this status of victimhood as justification for what they do, feeling entitled to their quest for power - whatever their intentions may be.

yeah, like Megamind! Classic EIE villain. Likable and understandable given his past, even pulls out of the bad-guy schtick at the end and gets the girl. A nice twist for a change.

[World Socionics]

I'm not talking about a line in the movie, I'm talking about the image that he projects -- a charming, socially adept, womanizing playboy type. That's obvious from the Iron Man movies and this one. Tony says "I don't play well with others", not because he lacks social skills (he has those in abundance), but because he prefers to work independently. It's his Irrational dislike of being confined to an orderly Rational group. Basically he's saying he doesn't like following the rules, which is understandable for an EP type.

In unfamiliar social situations Tony is cool, confident, and cocky, like an SEE. Not awkward, stumbling, and oblivious like an ILE usually is in unfamiliar social situations.

[Edit: An SLE in unfamiliar social situations tends to cover up his weak social skills either by putting on a show of "toughness", either by being aggressive or by being dispassionate. Alternately, a more mature SLE may simply admit his weak social skills. In general, their social skills are more crude and blunt than those displayed by Iron Man.]

Actually an Extraverted Sensing type would fit well into a hierarchy with an aim to climb it.

Also I still don't see where he comes off as charming. Most of the time he is being antisocial and it's his status more than anything that picks up the ladies. Many of them go on to find him rude and obnoxious.

[Logos]

Long time no see.

I am also inclined to type Bruce Banner as an LII. It comes across in how his character is more stoically reserved, as if constantly in the process of controlling himself, rather than observant detached. The way that other characters attempted to provoke him also reminded me more of how people may go about provoking an XII. It's also how he views "the Big Guy" as something he is not proud of being, rather than a duality he admires.

[mu4]

Hey Logos, how are you doing.

[Logos]

I'm doing well. I've have just been busy with grad school and decided to take a sabbatical from this place. I don't know how regularly I will post, but I do check in here from time to time.

[jessica129]

I have to nerd out and be a teen girl for a second and say that goddamn, this movie is packed with hotness and while all the women seem to go for Thor (ew, why lol) I was swooning over Loki. Why am I always attracted to psychotic, feminine men? Him and his cute receding hairline *sigh*

Anyways, their types? They're basically like the embodiment of type stereotypes so it's really easy to type them.

[redbaron]

I have to nerd out and be a teen girl for a second and say that goddamn, this movie is packed with hotness and while all the women seem to go for Thor (ew, why lol) I was swooning over Loki. Why am I always attracted to psychotic, feminine men? Him and his cute receding hairline *sigh*

Anyways, their types? They're basically like the embodiment of type stereotypes so it's really easy to type them.

lol that's so cute that you were swooning over Loki! I didn't like Thor either (nor did I find him particularly hot). Iron Man all the way. He was the only one I liked (in *that* way, anyway).

[DirectorAbbie]

Polikujm and I watched the movie.

Iron Man: SLE
Bruce Banner: LII
Captain America: LSE
Nick Fury: LIE
Thor: SEE
Loki: IEI
Natasha: EIE
Hawkeye: LSI

[thePirate]

I'm not talking about a line in the movie, I'm talking about the image that he projects -- a charming, socially adept, womanizing playboy type. That's obvious from the Iron Man movies and this one. Tony says "I don't play well with others", not because he lacks social skills (he has those in abundance), but because he prefers to work independently. It's his Irrational dislike of being confined to an orderly Rational group. Basically he's saying he doesn't like following the rules, which is understandable for an EP type.

In unfamiliar social situations Tony is cool, confident, and cocky, like an SEE. Not awkward, stumbling, and oblivious like an ILE usually is in unfamiliar social situations.

[Edit: An SLE in unfamiliar social situations tends to cover up his weak social skills either by putting on a show of "toughness", either by being aggressive or by being dispassionate. Alternately, a more mature SLE may simply admit his weak social skills. In general, their social skills are more crude and blunt than those displayed by Iron Man.]

I think RDJ is SEE and the character of Iron Man is ILE. There is a disconnect between the character as it is on paper and RDJ's portrayal of him which I think is part of the confusion going on here, as he has obviously bled into the character quite a bit.

[WinnieW]

Old thread reloaded.
Iron Man is ILE, imo. For building a flying suit from scratch a lot of intuition and thinking is needed – and knowledge in technology.
I can see him beeing a more outgoing version of myself. If I had the money and the resources I'd probably bulid such a suit for myself.

The only other explanation:
He used his weaker functions to escape his prison, but he created technical devices before he got captured.
I see him driven by his ideas, his main motivation is not interacting with environment in a sensory way.

[Xaiviay]

*watching Avengers and thinking about it*

I could never stand Tony Stark, tbh. There's only two characters from popular media that are generally well-loved, but I just can't stand, and he's one of them. He's always trying to assert his dominance, being competitive, and trying to prove how clever and powerful he is. I think he's SLE > ILE. He's obviously very smart and inventive, which is somewhat stereotypically associated with Ne, but he seems Se/Ni-valuing.

Pepper Potts seems ESI to me, and a supervision relationship for those two seems accurate. The dude needs someone who will constantly supervise his PoLR, anyways.

I can't tell what Loki is, IEI? EII? EIE? In MBTI I had him typed as INFJ. I like him a lot so I wish I knew what he was.

Thor seems SEE.

Captain America I had typed as ESFJ in MBTI, but in Socionics ESI might be closer.

Black Widow: IEE

Hawk Eye: SEI, SLI?

Dr. Banner: LII

Hulk: the inverse of LII under complete stress, so maybe a perpetually pissed off ESE? lol xD

[WinnieW]

*watching Avengers and thinking about it
I could never stand Tony Stark, tbh.

Ok, I can't rule out LIE for Tony Stark, but then his Id-functions would be very prominent.
Based on the movie I'd say he is 7-8-3 Enneagram tritype.
A LIE type person would be your conflictor.

The other explaination is that he seems so is because the character is played by Robert Downey Jr., and he is IEE E-7.
I wonder if he can play non--type characters at all. It's like assign him a role where he has to play a -PoLR person... Result: epic casting failure.

Problem is that he seems too reckless and irresponsible for being LIE. Or is this my impression of him only?
Maybe a LIE member here can tell if Tony Stark can be a fictional LIE or not.

I think he's SLE > ILE. He's obviously very smart and inventive, which is somewhat stereotypically associated with Ne, but he seems Se/Ni-valuing.

SLE is an other possible type for him; but his intuition seems stronger to me than -role and -suggestive.

Dr. Banner: LII

Hulk: the inverse of LII under complete stress...

Yes, LII is most likely for Dr. Banner. Hulk is a very impulsive and furious -ego type
Hulk as Banners conflictor does make some sense to me.

[Adam Strange]

Tony Stark seems like a cartoon LIE to me.

Too bad we can’t ask his creator what or whom he was thinking of when he devised the character.

*Edit*
Uh oh. I just did a search, and someone did ask him that. It seems that Stan Lee based Tony Stark on Howard Hughes.

Personally, I think Hughes was LIE.

[Delilah]

Tony Stark seems like a cartoon LIE to me.

Too bad we can’t ask his creator what or whom he was thinking of when he devised the character.

*Edit*
Uh oh. I just did a search, and someone did ask him that. It seems that Stan Lee based Tony Stark on Howard Hughes.

Personally, I think Hughes was LIE.

There is this old thread: --> http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=Howard+Hughes

He was an interesting person, but I think alpha NT rather.

[Living 2Day]

Iron Man- ESTp
Pepper Potts- INFp
Happy Hogan- ISFp
Phil Coulson- ISTj
Hulk- INTj
Black Widow- INTp
Nick Fury- ENTj
Hawkeye- ENTp
Thor- ESTP
Captain America- ISTj
Loki- ENFj
Spider Man- INFp
Star Lord- ENFp
Wanda Maximoff- INTj
Doctor Strange- INTp
Thanos- ENTj
Black Panther- ESTj
Gamora- ESFp
Drax- ESTp

[Toro]

Tony Stark - LIE (clearly) postivist, rational extrovert, 4d Te and Ne.

Thor - SLE (maybe SEE in Ragnarok and on)

Captain America - LSE

Bruce Banner - ILI

Black Widow - SEE

Hawkeye - SLI

Vision - LII

Wanda - IEI

Dr. Strange - LSE (Ni buffed due to plot and time stone )

James Rhodes - LSE

Falcon - ESI?

Bucky - ?

Black Panther - IEI

Nick Fury - SLE

Star-Lord - SEE

Gamora - LSI

Groot - SEI

Rocket - ILE

Drax - SLI

Mantis - EII







Loki - EIE

Ultron - LSI

Thanos - LSI

Killmonger - SLE

Ronan - LSI

Justin Hammer - LIE

Dormammu - ILI?

Ego - SEE

Hela - EIE

[crazymaisy]

Revising an old thread -- in the Iron Man movies Pepper is very introverted and becomes totally "normal" once the relationship with Tony Stark becomes more than just assistant/secretary. Very dualized-like Iron Man 1 compared to Iron Man 3 Pepper flowers. Also in The End Game she's reading an article about Composting.

Tony Stark - ILE + Pepper Potts - SEI = Duals