Nazism or Communism; which one do you hate more

[Gilly]

Both of them seem to inevitably fuck up and lead to senseless mass-slaughter over time, so whoever makes more whoopy has my blessing.

Oh, and whoever has the best recipe for purple drank.

[ArchonAlarion]

 

No actually I change my mind... Nazism is superior to both communism and capitalism because IF it worked and IF it was actually applied as ****** said, then we'd be living in an aryan worker's paradise without the evils of judeo-communism, asiatic barbarism, and slovenly ******s.

[Creepy-pokeball]

 

No actually I change my mind... Nazism is superior to both communism and capitalism because IF it worked and IF it was actually applied as ****** said, then we'd be living in an aryan worker's paradise without the evils of judeo-communism, asiatic barbarism, and slovenly ******s.

Then what? It is a "system" that narrows over space and time.

[krieger]

 

No actually I change my mind... Nazism is superior to both communism and capitalism because IF it worked and IF it was actually applied as ****** said, then we'd be living in an aryan worker's paradise without the evils of judeo-communism, asiatic barbarism, and slovenly ******s.

i don't think you quite understand how Nazism works. ****** was systematically purging your kind from the gene pool long before he turned to any of the groups you mention:

On July 14, 1933, the German government instituted the “Law for the Prevention of Progeny with Hereditary Diseases.” This law called for the sterilization of all persons who suffered from diseases considered hereditary, including mental illness, learning disabilities, physical deformity, epilepsy, blindness, deafness, and severe alcoholism.

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/focus/disabilities/

[Red Villain]

What the fuck is this shit?

[Gilly]

Nazism at least had better style and aesthetics, so I dislike Communism more.

Lol good point.

[ArchonAlarion]

I think it's wrong to censor my post. Nazism a legitimate ideology, and at least hasn't killed as many people as capitalism. We should censor capitalist remarks instead, seeing as it is actually a more harmful ideology.

The racism inherent in Nazism is about survival of the fittest. Therefore it makes sense as a practical solution to a problem. One gang fighting against the rest. In the end, it is more logical. My race wins, yours loses. Practical solutions.

[mu4]

I think it's wrong to censor my post. Nazism a legitimate ideology, and at least hasn't killed as many people as capitalism. We should censor capitalist remarks instead, seeing as it is actually a more harmful ideology.

The racism inherent in Nazism is about survival of the fittest. Therefore it makes sense as a practical solution to a problem. One gang fighting against the rest. In the end, it is more logical. My race wins, yours loses. Practical solutions.

Well Nazism obviously isn't very fit. Just because you pretend to be about it doesn't make it so.

What survive is fittest, not what pretends to be fittest.

Certain parts of capitalism and communism I find very fit, others, not so much. I find the basic premise of Nazism is actually a bit suicidal.

[Red Villain]

chose wisely

Troll harder

I voted "other" because you are asking us to pick between two of the same, really.

How precisely does one rationalize two highly distinct socio-economic systems in being similar unless by broad generalizations and stupidly obvious characterizations such as "they were both systems"?

I think communist regimes have killed more people and have more apologists.

Can I get some sauce with that bullshit sandwich? I would advise you cease while you have not yet fully limped, for if you utter such banalities in an attempt to express your "special" opinion in the hopes of looking very clever and to advance them as solid reasoning, you will no doubtingly find yourself drowning in the pools of urine ushered in by your ad-hoc pissing contest.

Depends on what people consider Communism/Socialism. I'm pretty sure what Nazism is. I mean the Dalai Lama is still a Marxist and he was exiled from a communist country.

I think ultimately wealth equity is one of the fundamental problems of society and if it's not somewhat fair people will be oppressed. Inequity occur in both capitalistic and communist models and the only real way to deal with it is not thru ideology but thru practical systems and regulations.

If people want to talk body counts, I'm pretty sure Capitalism has killed far more people then Nazism or Communism. Probably more people then Nazi and Communist regimes combined.

If you live in a country like China, people there purged/killed by both Japanese, KMT, CCP, British, Russian, German, East Indies Trading Company, Opium peddlers, etc. And not just small amounts but tens of millions by all these groups or thru instability caused by all these groups. Ideology is meaningless, you have to be strong as a individual no matter what ideology you hold and you have to organize your very mean gang to ensure that you're not abused by others, regardless of their ideology. If you want you can even be nice and kind to those less fortunate then you are instead of being a tool.

Firstly, the Dalai Lama is not a Marxist, nor is China socialist or even close to communism (in fact, it's impossible for communism cannot be achieved by a single country.) Yet, because you are completely and utterly fucking ignorant of the topic of which you surround with a fantastic array of logically erroneous scarecrows, you confuse yourself. If we consider that you open your post with the notion that the laws of history were but the mere construct of the human definition and that their objective existences rested firmly on the shoulders of subjective interpretation and then, quite ironiclly, spend the rest of your post paying a lip-service to the objective laws beyond our control; oblivious to fact that what we call communism is the logical consequence of a species that is antagonistic to it's own continued existence, that as capital centralizes, as more and more industries are brought under one roof, or taken control by the state out of ever increasing frequency/necessity, it is society making impulses towards socialization. There is more and more connectivity, travel, industrial parks and parking lot malls, society is socializing beyond our active control and that by simply reflecting about the concept is nothing more than the conscious reflection of it's objective unfolding- weather such reflection is in favor or against is of no importance. The relationship between your ignorance and confusion is reciprocal.

I forgot if I've actually read Marx or was far to simple to comprehend his concepts when I read them, but I'm going to talk like I know shit anyway

also: I HATE SOUP LABELS GUYZ.

You're all knuckle-fucks.

[ArchonAlarion]

Eh, it's all too ironic anyways. I wish you all the best of luck.

[Red Villain]

Eh, it's all too ironic anyways. I wish you all the best of luck.

A wise decision, comrade.

[Aquagraph]

They are both pretty cool. But I want to root for the underdog so I usually like better the one which gets dissed more.
I have usually defended my socialist views on this forum, like drug regulation and taxation, but with Europeans I like to point out the about the good things ****** did.

I ever hardly consider things horrible as I lack the required empathy and I'm very capable of seeing good sides to slaughter, fascism and propaganda.

In Europe, the favourite political curse word is "nazi" and in the US it's "commie".

[NewBorn STAR]

you are my brother nazzi in german and my brother commie in the us

[Creepy-pokeball]

They are both pretty cool. But I want to root for the underdog so I usually like better the one which gets dissed more.
I have usually defended my socialist views on this forum, like drug regulation and taxation, but with Europeans I like to point out the about the good things ****** did.

I ever hardly consider things horrible as I lack the required empathy and I'm very capable of seeing good sides to slaughter, fascism and propaganda.

In Europe, the favourite political curse word is "nazi" and in the US it's "commie".

or Obamanation Oh, politix!

[Taknamay]

I hope this helps.

[geneiouws]

they both suck imo

[rat1]

why can't i choose democracy?

[mu4]

Firstly, the Dalai Lama is not a Marxist, nor is China socialist or even close to communism (in fact, it's impossible for communism cannot be achieved by a single country.) Yet, because you are completely and utterly fucking ignorant of the topic of which you surround with a fantastic array of logically erroneous scarecrows, you confuse yourself. If we consider that you open your post with the notion that the laws of history were but the mere construct of the human definition and that their objective existences rested firmly on the shoulders of subjective interpretation and then, quite ironiclly, spend the rest of your post paying a lip-service to the objective laws beyond our control; oblivious to fact that what we call communism is the logical consequence of a species that is antagonistic to it's own continued existence, that as capital centralizes, as more and more industries are brought under one roof, or taken control by the state out of ever increasing frequency/necessity, it is society making impulses towards socialization. There is more and more connectivity, travel, industrial parks and parking lot malls, society is socializing beyond our active control and that by simply reflecting about the concept is nothing more than the conscious reflection of it's objective unfolding- weather such reflection is in favor or against is of no importance. The relationship between your ignorance and confusion is reciprocal.

I find your pretense to clarity amusing, you talk like a religious person. People call themselves various things and generally fail to live up to the billing. Sorry to disappoint you but you're one of them along with many many others.

Society has always socialized beyond our active control and in general we've made attempts to control it with limited success and sometimes catastrophic failure, yet people try.

I think models are useful, they generally predict inevitable, catastrophic collapse and those that don't are fantasies. The are ways to prolong things and ways to make things pleasant but there is no model that reflect reality which tells you, things will be just fine in perpetuity.

Capitalist model might leads to it's own self-destruction, that's fine, in general I think he's right about that part since I tend to view everything as eventually collapsing on itself. Communist model leading to a stateless classless society, well I think this might as well be religious.

[munenori2]

total sausage fest in here

[marooned]

No alternative way *so far discovered*. I think it's possible to change and be better.

[Absurd]

[Capitalist Pig]

How precisely does one rationalize two highly distinct socio-economic systems in being similar unless by broad generalizations and stupidly obvious characterizations such as "they were both systems"?

A difference of philosophy doesn't change the tangible result of material ruin and a body count in the millions. The economic policies aren't all that different. Socialism is the backbone of statolatry, thereby it becomes the tool of despots.

[Absurd]

A difference of philosophy doesn't change the tangible result of material ruin and a body count in the millions. The economic policies aren't all that different. Socialism is the backbone of statolatry, thereby it becomes the tool of despots.

Augusto Pinochet?

[Absurd]

Oh come on you very smart revolutionary person, CPig, oblige me.

[marooned]

I don't know that I see Socialism and Communism as the same thing... The nations I was referring to are mainly in Europe and Asia (the most classic being the former USSR). I don't think that Brazil, Chile or Uruguay were ever technically considered Communist states.

[mu4]

I don't know that I see Socialism and Communism as the same thing... The nations I was referring to are mainly in Europe and Asia (the most classic being the former USSR). I don't think that Brazil, Chile or Uruguay were ever technically considered Communist states.

I was talking about leaders and not system. But Socialism under some interpretations is supposed to be a intermediate step towards Communism, that interpretation is largely gone as most people don't really think Communism is possible or desirable.

Dilma is a former member of a Marxist rebel group and so is Jose. Lula is founder of the Worker's Party in Brazil and wear Che Guevara t-shirts. These are at the very least, Marxist/Marx influenced leaders.

As far as those communist leaders you referred to, they made their government after a revolution, generally in a impractical fashion.

[marooned]

Sigh. I also don't necessarily see Marxism and Communism as the same thing. I'm looking for nations that did or do practice what is considered "Communism" so as to see examples of it in action. It need not be a system that Marx himself would approve of from the grave.

[mu4]

Sigh. I also don't necessarily see Marxism and Communism as the same thing. I'm looking for nations that did or do practice what is considered "Communism" so as to see examples of it in action. It need not be a system that Marx himself would approve of from the grave.

I don't think there is a universal idea of what is Communism or Marxism. People generally use it as political rhetoric for or against.

I simply presented leaders who are Marx influenced and not dictators. Maybe it's just that dictators make dictatorships. There are examples of those in South America too, Cuba(Castro), Bolivia(Evo Morales), Venezuela(Hugo Chavez).

[Crispy]

I chose Nazism cause the relative shittiness of their ideas, but would probably rather live in a historical Nazi regime than Commy, due to having a better chance of surviving there.

[marooned]

I don't think there is a universal idea of what is Communism or Marxism. People generally use it as political rhetoric for or against.

I simply presented leaders who are Marx influenced and not dictators. Maybe it's just that dictators make dictatorships. There are examples of those in South America too, Cuba(Castro), Bolivia(Evo Morales), Venezuela(Hugo Chavez).

The point is you're tagging onto what I'm saying to make your political anti-Capitalism arguments and since I haven't said anything regarding those subjects, I'd appreciate being left out of it. I'm not criticizing your beloved Socialist leaders.

And, certain nations are and have been widely considered Communist, I stake my claim on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state

I'm not looking at pure ideologies (and if you are, we're not even on the same page to begin with). I care more about what actually happened under certain systems to make any attempt at an evaluation. I also said very specifically already, 'do I blame the system or its leaders.' That's why I said I hated Nazism more to begin with (there is little to no confusion about whether or not Nazism in practice was twisted around into something it was never meant to be since its developers happened to also pretty much be its implementers). So I don't understand why you're nit-picking.

[mu4]

The point is you're tagging onto what I'm saying to make your political anti-Capitalism arguments and since I haven't said anything regarding those subjects, I'd appreciate being left out of it. I'm not criticizing your beloved Socialist leaders.

Were its leaders not usually dictators (deranged men)?

I responded to this question you asked, I wasn't nit picking. I'm showing you places where the actual leaders are Marxist/Communist/Social democrats and not dictators....

I care more about what actually happened under certain systems to make any attempt at an evaluation.

I'm trying to report on exactly what I see happening today, that's all. The system of the totalitarian communists were made by those leaders(I really don't think you can seperate the system these people made from the leadership, they were the founders of their states). I don't think the leaders I have noted have tried to make those systems.

Also on the page you linked, two of these countries have Communist parties as part of the ruling coalition.

Communist parties as part of other ruling coalition

There are also some parties that participate as junior partners in ruling coalitions, as listed below.

• Brazil – Communist Party of Brazil – participates in the ruling coalition
• Peru – Peruvian Communist Party – participates in the ruling coalition
• South Africa – South African Communist Party – participates in the ruling coalition
• Sri Lanka – Communist Party of Sri Lanka – participates in the ruling coalition
• Syria – Syrian Communist Party (Bakdash), Syrian Communist Party (Faisal) – participates in the ruling coalition
• Ukraine – Communist Party of Ukraine – participates in the ruling coalition
• Uruguay – Communist Party of Uruguay – participates in the ruling coalition

If you want a simple answer, I'm afraid there isn't one.

Anyways, I'm not anti-entrepreneurship, or even anti-capitalist. I am an enterprising person and I believe business, trade and commerce is one of those things every individual should have a right to engage in. However I also believe in progressive taxation, social welfare programs such as universal healthcare and free/or nearly free education for all. I'm very much against people who think these ideas are mutually exclusive. People can call me a capitalist or socialist or what not but I'm a heterodox mixed economy person. Closer to someone like Ha Joon Chang then any of the "classical" economists.

Anyways thinking in terms of capitalism and communism is trapping yourself in a pattern from which there is no advancements. I think one must view these as antiquities to be made obsolete and improved upon.

[marooned]

I responded to this question you asked, I wasn't nit picking. I'm showing you places where the actual leaders are Marxist/Communist/Social democrats and not dictators....

They don't seem commie enough to be my commies.

If you want a simple answer, I'm afraid there isn't one.

I was more focused on wanting to know which system I hate more.

And, okay, it was unfair of me to use the term "anti-Capitalist" in referring to you.

[mu4]

I was more focused on wanting to know which system I hate more.

I hate dictators and assholes and the systems they create pretty much equally, but the cartoonish evil that was Nazi Germany is very easy to despise above others.

I would say the system I hate the most isn't Nazi Germany, but Pol Pot's Cambodia(hell on earth if there ever was one).

[Pa3s]

I'm looking for nations that did or do practice what is considered "Communism" so as to see examples of it in action. It need not be a system that Marx himself would approve of from the grave.

Two examples come to mind: Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine and the anarchist movement during the Spanish Civil War. Other than that, you'll not find a considerable manifestation of actual communism, especially not a whole nation.

I don't know if Marx approved these initiatives (since he hated Bakunin and other anarchists) but it's as close as it can get to the communist goal of a "classless, moneyless and stateless(!)" society. Anarchist communists and authoritarian communists actually had the same goal (or that's at least what they said), but they debated over the "right" way of achieving it.

The authoritan group formed parties and a revolutionary avant-garde. They said it's necessary to seize power and form a strong state to destroy capitalism and then, after introducing communism, let the state "wither away" (which never actually happened in practice). The anarchists strictly rejected the idea of a "revolutionary state" and want to reach their goal through a grassroots movement.

[Absurd]

[...]I don't know if Marx approved these initiatives (since he hated Bakunin and other anarchists) but it's as close as it can get to the communist goal of a "classless, moneyless and stateless(!)" society. Anarchist communists and authoritarian communists actually had the same goal (or that's at least what they said), but they debated over the "right" way of achieving it[...]

As much I love you and want to make out with you - nah kidding again -, I can't fully agree with those bits. Anyhow, back to OP and anyone who is responding. When voicing your, let's say, like towards one thing, you automatically dislike the other. This thread, to me is about morality. And if it is about morality, then how is it moral to voice one's like in favour of one murderous system over another murderous system?

[Red Villain]

As much I love you and want to make out with you - nah kidding again -, I can't fully agree with those bits. Anyhow, back to OP and anyone who is responding. When voicing your, let's say, like towards one thing, you automatically dislike the other. This thread, to me is about morality. And if it is about morality, then how is it moral to voice one's like in favour of one murderous system over another murderous system?

I wouldn't sweat it. No one in this thread even knows what Communism is.

[Pa3s]

I can't fully agree with those bits.

You are of course free to disagree, I don't say I'm never wrong. This is just how I understood it.

[Absurd]

Hmm, I thought it was more, I hate both X and Y but I HATE X MORE! sort of thing.

Oh my mistake, then. Anyway, it is still a question of ethics.

Of course what X and Y even are, is up to debate.

It's not. Both are fundamentally different from each other. It's like you're starting an organisation being a leader of it, out of your initiative I mean, and what you witness is a guy once being on your side stabbing you in the back, taking a small portion of people with him and forging a new organisation not noticing the previous one is growing in numbers even after his recession.

I wouldn't sweat it. No one in this thread even knows what Communism is.

Well, this is indeed a soconics forum so cut them some slack.

You are of course free to disagree, I don't say I'm never wrong. This is just how I understood it.

It's alright, I'm quite authoritarian myself so that makes me this red fascist or something in your eyes.

Check out Proudhon

[Absurd]

It's silly to use history to back up a distaste for communism, because no country has ever been communist as defined by Karl Marx. Nazism is more hate-worthy, unless by "communism" OP meant what we commonly refer to as communism - in that case, "communist" regimes have caused much more loss (by starvation) than Nazism.

I can preliminary agree with that.