Everyone trusts their own intuitions formed of observations to be right - to an appropriate degree.Originally Posted by Aquagraph
Expecting others to be superhuman and in perfect agreement with you is unrealistic nonsense.
Common sense stipulates that you show people new evidence that may alter their viewpoint rather than jumping up and down shouting, 'you're wrong you're wrong because I disagree!'; which is juvenile.
I keep a very high fence between my perception & analysis of it and the assumed reality. I and anndelise think Maritsa might benefit doing the same. What is the problem?
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
You just read it.
I'll never get over the determined need of those with a reliance upon Ti to attack those with a different opinion; and then to declare it's because they don't trust their own ability to form opinion. It's the mental equivalent of someone walking into your house and asking to fix your already working plumbing even though they don't know what a pipe is.
I didn't say that I don't have opinions. I have opinions. One of them is that my opinions are very flawed.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
You mean to say that Ti PoLR types who have reliance on Ti don't trust their own ability to form opinions and because of that they attack those who try? I'm sorry I had to translate what you said into my own language to understand it
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Don't move say anything Socionics related. Her perception is Socionics-based.
“I tell you, freedom and human rights in America are doomed. The U.S. government will lead the American people in — and the West in general — into an unbearable hell and a choking life. - Osama bin Laden
It's a valid interpretation.
That isn't even closely related to what I was saying.
You added in "to an appropriate degree" . But who/what determines what degree is or is not appropriate?
I promote the system of feedback. I might perceive something, and act according to those perceptions. Then I get feedback of some kind. This feedback informs me that I may have been accurate in my perception...or that I was only somewhat accurate but got something off...or that my initial perception was way out in left field. Upon receiving the feedback, I check to see how this new info alters my initial perception...forming a new perception, which I then act on...and get further feedback on. And the process continues. It's called Learning.
I really don't know how you can think that confidence is the same thing as accuracy.
People make mistakes all the time. People also base their views/beliefs on their experiences, or stories of others' experiences. If they lack access to certain relevant experiences, then they don't have that to draw from, and can easily form inaccurate views.
It's kinda like how as teens, we're confident that we know everything and refuse to listen to those who've had other experiences. And then as we get older, and gain those experiences, we start to finally understand what the adults kept trying to tell us. Worse, we might even find ourselves on the adult side of the equation...trying to tell our teen kids what we've learned from our experiences, but they're too fucking confident in their own views/beliefs that they think they're views/beliefs are accurate.
Another example: I may feel confident that someone is acting like an ass on purpose, but that confidence wouldn't necessarily mean that I am right.
I am constantly surprised at how quickly people will form an opinion..and stick with it, despite evidence to the contrary. Some even go so far as twisting things to better suit their own views. Rationalizing it..I think is what it's called. And if you think I don,t apply this same idea to myself, womdering if I,m doing the same thing during a particular incident or such, then you obviously haven't spent any time reading my posts nor chatting with me in the chatbox. Because I'm constantly questioning my views and my understandings and asking people about their own to see if they're catching something I'm missing.
Maritsa, however, has shown over and over again in this forum that she does not question her own understandings, her own perceptions. She even has admitted a few times that once she forms a judgment on something/someone, she does not change her mind.
I've witnessed this over and over from her. Other people tell me this about her over and over. And yet still, I try to find what it is that I might be missing...because despite seeing it in soooo many people, I still have a hard time accepting that people don't accept feedback, nor try to learn from it. (and yes, I am well aware that my difficulty in accepting the idea that people don't learn from feedback is an example of someone not learning from feedback,)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Stage 1: Say it's not related to what you are sayingThat isn't even closely related to what I was saying.
You added in "to an appropriate degree" . But who/what determines what degree is or is not appropriate?
I promote the system of feedback. I might perceive something, and act according to those perceptions. Then I get feedback of some kind. This feedback informs me that I may have been accurate in my perception...or that I was only somewhat accurate but got something off...or that my initial perception was way out in left field. Upon receiving the feedback, I check to see how this new info alters my initial perception...forming a new perception, which I then act on...and get further feedback on. And the process continues. It's called Learning.
I really don't know how you can think that confidence is the same thing as accuracy.
People make mistakes all the time. People also base their views/beliefs on their experiences, or stories of others' experiences. If they lack access to certain relevant experiences, then they don't have that to draw from, and can easily form inaccurate views.
It's kinda like how as teens, we're confident that we know everything and refuse to listen to those who've had other experiences. And then as we get older, and gain those experiences, we start to finally understand what the adults kept trying to tell us. Worse, we might even find ourselves on the adult side of the equation...trying to tell our teen kids what we've learned from our experiences, but they're too fucking confident in their own views/beliefs that they think they're views/beliefs are accurate.
Another example: I may feel confident that someone is acting like an ass on purpose, but that confidence wouldn't necessarily mean that I am right.
I am constantly surprised at how quickly people will form an opinion..and stick with it, despite evidence to the contrary. Some even go so far as twisting things to better suit their own views. Rationalizing it..I think is what it's called. And if you think I don,t apply this same idea to myself, womdering if I,m doing the same thing during a particular incident or such, then you obviously haven't spent any time reading my posts nor chatting with me in the chatbox. Because I'm constantly questioning my views and my understandings and asking people about their own to see if they're catching something I'm missing.
Maritsa, however, has shown over and over again in this forum that she does not question her own understandings, her own perceptions. She even has admitted a few times that once she forms a judgment on something/someone, she does not change her mind.
I've witnessed this over and over from her. Other people tell me this about her over and over. And yet still, I try to find what it is that I might be missing...because despite seeing it in soooo many people, I still have a hard time accepting that people don't accept feedback, nor try to learn from it. (and yes, I am well aware that my difficulty in accepting the idea that people don't learn from feedback is an example of someone not learning from feedback,
Stage 2: Identify that it was exactly what you were saying
Stage 3: Mental Masturbation
Stage 4: ??
Stage 5: Profit?
1. She's actually somewhat right about learning from feedback,
2. I do learn from not repeating my mistakes, for instance,
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
Considering the implications of what you wrote, and your seeming belief that confidence and accuracy are the same things, I can't help but lose significant respect I'd once had for your views. (I'm sure that means nothing to you, and I've no problem with that.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Applying your will on him...I will lose respect for you if you don't agree with me. HEEEHEEE
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Face palm of the gods.
The woman was asked to give her opinion; she did. You then complain that she views herself as right when she puts forward an opinion. Then you complain about being called for saying that people don't understand some form of 'objective accuracy' when of course, people are human and can only provide their best justifiable viewpoint at any time; then you counter justify this by demanding that other people don't get affronted when others disagree; then get affronted when people disagree with you.
Wonderful.
Correct, I view it as peoples right to make statements that allow them to express their opinion whilst data gathering and also to take on new information as they see fit.
Not only is this intrinsically obvious, its something outwith the ability of society to control unless people decide to entirely subvert their own responsibilities to society.
Ahh, fack the drama, I'm going to swirl like a ballerina in here.
1. You self-type ILI, Jim,
2. Maritsa self-types EII,
3. ILI+EII = relations of benefit. Correct me if I'm wrong, though,
4. Maritsa types Jedi (cute name, haha) his dual, henceforth referred to as LSE,
5. You're not objecting clearly observed by my amazing powers of observation,
6. Cognitive styles, which nearly everyone is high on these days,
7. 1+2+3 = Fi/Te quadra,
8. Jedi self-types Fe dominant,
9. Jewish dilemma - free ham.
If we make it Pastrami then I think we are onto a winner.
Most certainly, therefore as you were protesting about Maritsa, her intuitive idea of what was right was getting in the way; as was your own and as is mine.
You also failed to join up either end of the axioms of your avout reverence to objective reality and respect.
Every idea deserves the appropriate respect regardless of the person who provides it based upon the relevance of the idea. Anything else is to ignore the very founding principle of the paradigm.
Expecting Ti from a Ti polr? Good luck with that.
Perhaps one of our communication issues with each other is your focus on "appropriateness" and that we may have differing criteria of what might be considered "appropriate" or not.Every idea deserves the appropriate respect regardless of the person who provides it based upon the relevance of the idea. Anything else is to ignore the very founding principle of the paradigm.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
I don't see how you can come down on anyone, Andellise. You're a goddamn clown. I really think some people here could learn to say they are wrong every now and then.
"BUT, SOCIONICS.US IS WRITTEN IN STONE! IT'S GOD-LIKE!" LMFAO.
Uhhh, if you read, I have said I was wrong several times (in so many words). I show enough humility..... DUH. Research before you reply, loser. I generally cover hypocrisy.
The problem here happens to be that I am more complicated than your little brains can follow. If you follow my posts and can figure it out, you will know better than to post something this goddamn idiotic. I'm pretty tired of the idiocy on this site.
How about this, you fucking piece of shit. Go away and mind your own goddamn business, and stop stalking me before I try to do something about it. How's that?
If you don't like my posts, don't read them. It doesn't take a monkey brain to figure that one out, oh but alas.... maybe it does.
I'm fucking tired of you.
This site is like grinding your wheels to get all-of-nowhere. Intelligence unfortunately does not mean one can think. Trolling unfortunately is fucking useless, and yes, I've done it too, but when it gets to be a daily matter, well, that usually means something more than just the occasional trolling for fun, like bitterness has taken hold or someone really has no life so they are getting their "kicks" often off of trying to brutalize other people, or it could just mean stupidity and lack of focus/motivation. The one thing that people like you can offer me is the ability to be thankful that I'm not you, and to feel happy about my life and who I am, and what I'm doing with myself. Wow. You def have some antisocial tendencies going on...... Unfortunately, young people mistake antisocial for self-esteem.
Last edited by jet city woman; 04-16-2012 at 04:33 PM.
lol ^^^
Anyways, Maritsa, if you wanna try to stop typing me, we could just be friends. Does that sound acceptable?
^wants the upper hand in defining the relationship, and wants to define the relationship and wants a relationship he can be content with; if it's going to proceed forward it's going to be on your terms. CONTROLING. DID YOU READ MY POST ON THE LSE CONTROLLING?
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...uality-LSE-EII
You can always be friends with me.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Why did I click on this thread thinking this was some spin off of those "Ask Abby" columns?
Its probably not a wise idea to click on any thread I create.
I've decided that, regardless the fun of "being typed" if your going to fuss over someone typing you, when you most likely asked them to, then your just being a Dick, Go read the damn shit, and type yourself, no one should know you better then yourself. period.
although, i will admit to being entertained by the dramatic circles on this forum.
Ariel: If only I could make him understand. I just don't see things the way he does. I just don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad.
<3 ENFp (IEE) <3
Bwahaha.
Oh, honey, you need some background.
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