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Thread: Dear Maritsa ! (jadae's typing)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    That isn't even closely related to what I was saying.

    You added in "to an appropriate degree" . But who/what determines what degree is or is not appropriate?

    I promote the system of feedback. I might perceive something, and act according to those perceptions. Then I get feedback of some kind. This feedback informs me that I may have been accurate in my perception...or that I was only somewhat accurate but got something off...or that my initial perception was way out in left field. Upon receiving the feedback, I check to see how this new info alters my initial perception...forming a new perception, which I then act on...and get further feedback on. And the process continues. It's called Learning.

    I really don't know how you can think that confidence is the same thing as accuracy.

    People make mistakes all the time. People also base their views/beliefs on their experiences, or stories of others' experiences. If they lack access to certain relevant experiences, then they don't have that to draw from, and can easily form inaccurate views.

    It's kinda like how as teens, we're confident that we know everything and refuse to listen to those who've had other experiences. And then as we get older, and gain those experiences, we start to finally understand what the adults kept trying to tell us. Worse, we might even find ourselves on the adult side of the equation...trying to tell our teen kids what we've learned from our experiences, but they're too fucking confident in their own views/beliefs that they think they're views/beliefs are accurate.

    Another example: I may feel confident that someone is acting like an ass on purpose, but that confidence wouldn't necessarily mean that I am right.

    I am constantly surprised at how quickly people will form an opinion..and stick with it, despite evidence to the contrary. Some even go so far as twisting things to better suit their own views. Rationalizing it..I think is what it's called. And if you think I don,t apply this same idea to myself, womdering if I,m doing the same thing during a particular incident or such, then you obviously haven't spent any time reading my posts nor chatting with me in the chatbox. Because I'm constantly questioning my views and my understandings and asking people about their own to see if they're catching something I'm missing.

    Maritsa, however, has shown over and over again in this forum that she does not question her own understandings, her own perceptions. She even has admitted a few times that once she forms a judgment on something/someone, she does not change her mind.

    I've witnessed this over and over from her. Other people tell me this about her over and over. And yet still, I try to find what it is that I might be missing...because despite seeing it in soooo many people, I still have a hard time accepting that people don't accept feedback, nor try to learn from it. (and yes, I am well aware that my difficulty in accepting the idea that people don't learn from feedback is an example of someone not learning from feedback, )
    Stage 1: Say it's not related to what you are saying
    Stage 2: Identify that it was exactly what you were saying
    Stage 3: Mental Masturbation
    Stage 4: ??
    Stage 5: Profit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Okay, how do I make an EII mad? I know how to make them sad...but not mad.
    I'm not sure how to make an EII mad, but if you were referring specifically to Maritsa, i would say to try providing her with feedback that encourages her to open up her perceptions (and judgments). She'll immediately interpret it as you're trying to be mean to her and aren't focused on helping her achieve her own interests (at the cost of others', of course).
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Stage 1: Say it's not related to what you are saying
    Stage 2: Identify that it was exactly what you were saying
    Stage 3: Mental Masturbation
    Stage 4: ??
    Stage 5: Profit?
    1. She's actually somewhat right about learning from feedback,

    2. I do learn from not repeating my mistakes, for instance,

    3. ?

    4. ?

    5. ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Stage 1: Say it's not related to what you are saying
    Stage 2: Identify that it was exactly what you were saying
    Stage 3: Mental Masturbation
    Stage 4: ??
    Stage 5: Profit?
    Considering the implications of what you wrote, and your seeming belief that confidence and accuracy are the same things, I can't help but lose significant respect I'd once had for your views. (I'm sure that means nothing to you, and I've no problem with that.)
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    A person's own degree of judgment determines what an appropriate degree is, if they are Fi; but if they are Fe, they will get that appropriate degree from their society. I get it from my own degree of comfort, judgement, determination how much is right or wrong -which are set by me.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Considering the implications of what you wrote, and your seeming belief that confidence and accuracy are the same things, I can't help but lose significant respect I'd once had for your views. (I'm sure that means nothing to you, and I've no problem with that.)
    Applying your will on him...I will lose respect for you if you don't agree with me. HEEEHEEE
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I'm not sure how to make an EII mad, but if you were referring specifically to Maritsa, i would say to try providing her with feedback that encourages her to open up her perceptions (and judgments). She'll immediately interpret it as you're trying to be mean to her and aren't focused on helping her achieve her own interests (at the cost of others', of course).
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Considering the implications of what you wrote, and your seeming belief that confidence and accuracy are the same things, I can't help but lose significant respect I'd once had for your views. (I'm sure that means nothing to you, and I've no problem with that.)
    Face palm of the gods.

    The woman was asked to give her opinion; she did. You then complain that she views herself as right when she puts forward an opinion. Then you complain about being called for saying that people don't understand some form of 'objective accuracy' when of course, people are human and can only provide their best justifiable viewpoint at any time; then you counter justify this by demanding that other people don't get affronted when others disagree; then get affronted when people disagree with you.

    Wonderful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    A person's own degree of judgment determines what an appropriate degree is, if they are Fi; but if they are Fe, they will get that appropriate degree from their society. I get it from my own degree of comfort, judgement, determination how much is right or wrong -which are set by me.
    Correct, I view it as peoples right to make statements that allow them to express their opinion whilst data gathering and also to take on new information as they see fit.

    Not only is this intrinsically obvious, its something outwith the ability of society to control unless people decide to entirely subvert their own responsibilities to society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Considering the implications of what you wrote, and your seeming belief that confidence and accuracy are the same things, I can't help but lose significant respect I'd once had for your views. (I'm sure that means nothing to you, and I've no problem with that.)
    You also failed to join up either end of the axioms of your avout reverence to objective reality and respect.

    Every idea deserves the appropriate respect regardless of the person who provides it based upon the relevance of the idea. Anything else is to ignore the very founding principle of the paradigm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    A person's own degree of judgment determines what an appropriate degree is, if they are Fi; but if they are Fe, they will get that appropriate degree from their society. I get it from my own degree of comfort, judgement, determination how much is right or wrong -which are set by me.
    You believe that a person's confidence level determines reality?
    Perhaps we are now getting to the crux of the issue here.
    But wouldn't that be a Will thing? Forcing your views onto reality and expecting reality to conform?

    Applying your will on him...I will lose respect for you if you don't agree with me. HEEEHEEE
    No, i didn't apply my will on him...i had only hope that he would actually read and give a feedback response rather than the snarky comments he made. Will and hope are not the same things.

    Further, What I did, was share with him how my perceptions of him have altered due to this interaction with him. If my perceptions of him could apply pressure on his views/actions, then I can see how it might be interpreted as me applying my will on him. But my perceptions of him don't influence him in any way, and definitely don't apply pressure on him whatsoever. Hence, wasn't an application of Will.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Ahh, fack the drama, I'm going to swirl like a ballerina in here.

    1. You self-type ILI, Jim,

    2. Maritsa self-types EII,

    3. ILI+EII = relations of benefit. Correct me if I'm wrong, though,

    4. Maritsa types Jedi (cute name, haha) his dual, henceforth referred to as LSE,

    5. You're not objecting clearly observed by my amazing powers of observation,

    6. Cognitive styles, which nearly everyone is high on these days,

    7. 1+2+3 = Fi/Te quadra,

    8. Jedi self-types Fe dominant,

    9. Jewish dilemma - free ham.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    You also failed to join up either end of the axioms of your avout reverence to objective reality and respect.
    Expecting Ti from a Ti polr? Good luck with that.

    Every idea deserves the appropriate respect regardless of the person who provides it based upon the relevance of the idea. Anything else is to ignore the very founding principle of the paradigm.
    Perhaps one of our communication issues with each other is your focus on "appropriateness" and that we may have differing criteria of what might be considered "appropriate" or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    9. Jewish dilemma - free ham.
    If we make it Pastrami then I think we are onto a winner.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Perhaps one of our communication issues with each other is your focus on "appropriateness" and that we may have differing criteria of what might be considered "appropriate" or not.
    Most certainly, therefore as you were protesting about Maritsa, her intuitive idea of what was right was getting in the way; as was your own and as is mine.

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    Regarding peoples opinions of what is right determining the 'reality' of what is right, this is entirely supported by the evolution of science.

    Even Einstein believed that quantum physics was wrong and therefore people did not believe that quantum physics was correct.

    Sadly Einstein was wrong. The nature of reality does indeed change by perception (QED quantum tunneling).

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    This is your reply to me. I'm sulking, really. And you erased Scotland from your location. Now I can't track you down and kill you. Shame on me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    You believe that a person's confidence level determines reality?
    where did I USE THE WORD "CONFIDENCE"?
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    where did I USE THE WORD "CONFIDENCE"?
    You just used it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    This is your reply to me. I'm sulking, really. And you erased Scotland from your location. Now I can't track you down and kill you. Shame on me?
    I'm not in Kansas any more, poppet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    where did I USE THE WORD "CONFIDENCE"?
    I'm quoting you so you'll receive a notification.

    LSE
    1-6-2 so/sx
    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I'm not in Kansas any more, poppet.
    Eh?

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    Do you even know what you're thanking me for clicking that "like" button?

    And oh ye, nil, show up and supervise me for not editing my previous post. Supervise Opera while you're at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    just watch out for the carpet
    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Alright -- that's fair
    What is Jedi doing in the above?

    Why is he saying "that's fair"? Is that judging or perceiving?

    You'll answer judging, now that cuts down to 4 functions:

    Te
    Fe
    Ti
    Fi

    Of those 4 functions, which one does he use?

    (static) perceives logical interrelations between objects, which by definition belong to a certain class or location, unless the point of reference is changed.
    (dynamic) perceives what those objects are doing and what is being done with them. One and the same object can be used effectively or ineffectively.

    (static) perceives connections of a subjective, emotional nature that exist between objects. These feelings arise gradually and change little until a significant disruption occurs.
    (dynamic) perceives how objects are interacting on an emotional level. One and the same object can interact very different with a stable set of other objects depending on a variety of factors.

    Te is the conclusion.

    I'm done here. Don't bother me about this topic again.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What is Jedi doing in the above?
    Getting his hand pumped.

    Why is he saying "that's fair"? Is that judging or perceiving?
    Judging by the size of his hand it is judging. LSE.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    What is Jedi doing in the above?

    Why is he saying "that's fair"? Is that judging or perceiving?

    You'll answer judging, now that cuts down to 4 functions:

    Te
    Fe
    Ti
    Fi

    Of those 4 functions, which one does he use?

    (static) perceives logical interrelations between objects, which by definition belong to a certain class or location, unless the point of reference is changed.
    (dynamic) perceives what those objects are doing and what is being done with them. One and the same object can be used effectively or ineffectively.

    (static) perceives connections of a subjective, emotional nature that exist between objects. These feelings arise gradually and change little until a significant disruption occurs.
    (dynamic) perceives how objects are interacting on an emotional level. One and the same object can interact very different with a stable set of other objects depending on a variety of factors.

    Te is the conclusion.

    I'm done here. Don't bother me about this topic again.
    Read the very first post and really ask yourself what I am doing and why Radio responded the way he did. Radio understands something that you are missing. Which brings me to the question, "Why can't you deal with non-absolutes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Read the very first post and really ask yourself what I am doing and why Radio responded the way he did. Radio understands something that you are missing. Which brings me to the question, "Why can't you deal with non-absolutes?"
    She's your dual. She can't.

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    3

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    Maritsa, I'll claim ESTj for a full year if you can accurately guess what my goal was (without asking for help).

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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Read the very first post and really ask yourself what I am doing and why Radio responded the way he did. Radio understands something that you are missing. Which brings me to the question, "Why can't you deal with non-absolutes?"
    It doesn't matter; I could have said "that's fine" what does that say about me? Because saying "that's fine" is giving someone approval.

    Giving approval and saying "that's fine" is saying something is good, judgment on Fi; saying fair is looking at both sides of the conversations

    It's probably a difference between asking and declaring.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Maritsa, I'll claim ESTj for a full year if you can accurately guess what my goal was (without asking for help).
    Really, I don't care.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Really, I don't care.
    Pinky swear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Pinky swear?
    YES.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    It doesn't matter; I could have said "that's fine" what does that say about me? Because saying "that's fine" is giving someone approval.

    Giving approval and saying "that's fine" is saying something is good, judgment on Fi; saying fair is looking at both sides of the conversations

    It's probably a difference between asking and declaring.
    It does matter, especially where the meaning of word's is in sub-cultures where the meaning is layered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Pinky swear?
    CROSS MY HEART AND HOPE TO FLY, STICK A CUPCAKE IN MY EYE

    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
    EII (INFj) - 9w1 - INFP - Scorpio - Hufflepuff
    Johari - Fediverse

  33. #73
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    My absolutes are more about my feelings and moral values; if I feel that something is right, I will defend my position; I'm less, or my absolutes, about concretes.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-15-2012 at 12:23 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Do you even know what you're thanking me for clicking that "like" button?
    Are you positive you know what message your post conveyed? You do not have to be thankful or in agreement to press 'like' on a post.

  35. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    CROSS MY HEART AND HOPE TO FLY, STICK A CUPCAKE IN MY EYE

    That is hilarious, lol.

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    My absolutes are more about my feelings and moral values; if I feel that something is right, I will defend my position; I'm less, or my absolutes, about concretes.
    That sounds like the beginnings of a war.

  37. #77
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    That sounds like the beginnings of a war.
    Bring it on!!!
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Bring it on!!!
    Sorry, I'm too busy helping reincarnated Princess Diana pick up land mines left over from old wars.

  39. #79
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J4d4e View Post
    Sorry, I'm too busy helping reincarnated Princess Diana pick up land mines left over from old wars.
    ROFL...reincarnated Princess Di...lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  40. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kald View Post
    Are you positive you know what message your post conveyed? You do not have to be thankful or in agreement to press 'like' on a post.
    What the fuck are you on?

    I'm sure as hell what I wrote and I wrote that this thread is Maritsa being intent and positive on Jadae being LSE. Looks like anndelise and DA sticks to topic or at least tries to having to respond to offtopic babblings, yours and Jim's babblings.

    Don't have to remind you but OPs questions is "how is he LSE". Unless I won't hear an reasonable answer from you, I'm going to dismiss you as a wacko.
    Last edited by Absurd; 04-15-2012 at 09:13 AM.

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