Are INTJs more creative than average?
Are INTJs more creative than average?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
To be stereotypicaly speaking, I think they ought to be. It would be an essential part of their survival technique, as opposed to just 'logic'.
Exactlymy point, it seems that logic and creativity don't necessarily go hand in hand, at least for me.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Can you give some real examples when you were creative or others said you were creative?Originally Posted by soggy-flakes
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not necessarily... how can i say it?
"special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore."
this can cripple any generative capacity
What do you mean by generative? Imaginative?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
in this case yes. it makes one creative in a childish/futile way that does not actually approach... art?
Pedro, when I read your posts, I keep on thinking from where do you get all of this ? It shines through from your words.Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
Semiotical process
I consider myself creative, I've painted and was sent to art schools my whole life. I currently work as a graphic designer, but I hate it and am thinking about going back to school.
I approach each canvas as a problem that needs to be solved, you have to decide when and where to use the right tools and you have to make sure color is in the right places based on a formula of balance. I like to think I use a combination of creativity and logic.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
has favorable characteristics i demand perfection of myself or rather wholeness or completeness or competency or what you will thus i learn . all creatures are influenced by their environment and the ones who dominate are those who adopt the strengths of their superiors and surgically remove their own deficiencies but more important than this is the ability to maneuver into any kind of person.Originally Posted by jsb'07
you once said something to the effect of "the united states is a more emotionally complex place", i agree. i am a new form of the chameleon as a necessity. eventually someone will come along and find the chinks in my armor and take advantage of them at which point i will adapt some more until their methods are useless and they will adapt similarly to myself. this process will occur ad infinitum and eventually i will... how to say it in socionics terminology? have significant functional development so that nothing will faze me (in a positive manner )
this process occurs all around us. as people communicate more and more ideas spread like an infection and persons who would (under normal circumstances) have taken decades to aquire a certain bit of knowledge now receive it several degrees of magnitude in time sooner and develop faster. eventually this will lead to everyone being everyone (sort of) and personalities will die. when you were a child you thought a certain way and you "outgrew" it. soon everyone will outgrow themselves and "personality" will become a defunct concept because you will be able to fulfill so many conflicting, contradictory, and mutually exclusive desires (expressions imo is a much better word as "wants" may not be either) simultaneously (because of enhanced capacity) that the you that is now will be only one voice in a grand cacophanous harmony. the abolition of man will occur. men must die for if we continue to have competing interests we will kill ourselves off. the only way to survive in the long term (billions of years) is for us to "work together" so closely that we fail to see divisions (serious ones at least) between one another's mental states so that we can have access to every adaptation possible
That was some rant Pedro
If only I could get this work for me but it dosen't. I spent many years trying to be what I'm not in an extension of who I am, but as I got older the further I would revert back. And somethings, being openly social in large parties for instance, were beyond my ability no matter how many legal and illeagal drugs I consumed. This is one of the main reasons I quite therapy, or maybe why I entered therapy in the first place :wink:Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
I think INTjs should be, they don't have to be but it seems like it would make sense. Maybe soggy-flakes is right, because as far as I've seen in my life, INTjs trust logic. However, a lot of people compliment me on my imagination and creativity. I'm the idea person in groups, or at least I am until someone in charge acts stupid and then I become the group leader, coordinator, organizer and creator. I try to find jobs for other people to have that they wont mess up.
Roboticist: Someone who conceptualizes, designs, builds, programs and experiments with robots.
I seem to switch back and forth between using logic and intuition for things. The choice between the two seems to be based on a whim.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
huh? I hope you didn't mean in the post you quoted.Originally Posted by jsb'07
I agree with both mastermind's and oyburger's last posts
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
This is generally how I work with a project or assignment. I take a look at what has been done before and how other people have approached the problem. I then take different aspects of it and rearrange it in a fashion that logically makes sense for the required task. This is where the INTj and ENTp are considered creative. In our attempts to have the world make sense, we rearrange preexisting ideas and concepts and apply them in new ways which are logical to us and new to others.I don't know about the other INTjs here but I'd have a hard time coming with something totally new. I'd be much more inclined to improve something already existing or take something already there and change some of the variables to see what the new result will be.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I think that is what I call version B of The Logical Fodunk.
That's how I roll.
My first year in college, I foudn myself spending way too much time trying to create something completely new, which I'm not so good at. This year, I'll try to be more efficient by realizing and accepting that strategy. I wasted way too much time and energy that wasn't really leading, effieciently, towards the outcome.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Another person before said that INTJs are idea people. That is they creates new ideas and concepts. Would you agree with that?Originally Posted by Logos
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INTjs are indeed "idea people," (as are all intuitives) but I think these ideas must be generated in response to some external need or problem that they see as being apparent in their environment. The ideas generated seem to be a result of their critical analysis of a problem. And like I said, an INTjs "new idea" may simply be the result of trying to improve a concept or solve a problem. In addition, INTjs as idea people may differ in their desire to break down concepts and ideas to core components and categorize them. By categorizing components of ideas, INTjs are able to see associations, trends, and commonalities with ideas and play around to make new ideas.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
This is very interesting logos.
When you say that an INTJ sees what has been done before and improves on them, or when the INTJ sees the core components of an idea, would you say that what is seen is real?
What I am trying to get at, is the INTJ view of the relationship between their views and reality: is it a one to one correspondence? In contrast, an INTP for instance essentially invents his reality.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
In my experience, we can take something that's there and real and take it to its furthest limits, at least abstractly. When we get done with it, it may not resemble the original thing, but for us there is a connection.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
This is extremely interesting, what do you mean by furthest limit? Do you have any examples?Originally Posted by oyburger
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No example comes to mind, but if I let my mind wander on a certain subject associations build upon associations until you can take it to its furthest conclusion.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Originally Posted by Dioklecian
First, I agree with oyburger and logos on essentially everything thus far.
Hmm, I don't know how an INTP opperates, really. I think I am one, sometimes, but I'm getting more and more J as time goes by. But I want to keep some play in the j/p dichotomey, so I can understand things.
Anyway, to fruther my original intent --- "essentially invents his reality". Hmm, I don't know. What I have done is create an image or vision, roughly in my head, and I try to orientate things towards that vision. It is, I imagine, like magnitizing a peice of metal, so that everything lines up in the same direction. Or also, sort of like tetris, and I am tryin to orient all the peices, as they come by, into a position that I want them to be in.
I really like Rick's site, there is an article I linked before, where it talks about psychological lopsidedness. And yeah, the more I go, the more I do see myself compelled to arrange things via my leading function --- :ti:. This is, of course, supported by , and as such, I am an idea/possibility/improvement person.
That is why I really like my signature -- -it is so fitting. I realize I have always been a revolutionary -- this has always been me. So now I revel in it, because I have found something I've been looking for for a long time -- a bit of 'my destiney', so to say. But that is laced with some INTj mysticism and fantasy, for sure.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Furthest conclusion as in its' truth value? I can see how designing something can work that way, is it the same with ideas? What is the goal of the associations?Originally Posted by oyburger
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No goal, just thought games, if you will.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
and what si the conclusion that you arrive at? And how do you know that it is indeed the furthest possible conclusion, how do you know that its' not just a temporary arrival?Originally Posted by oyburger
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
You don't, I just see how far I can take it at that time.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
What is the difference bwetween the innitial state and latter one? Are there simply more and better conections or is there something more?Originally Posted by oyburger
And what is the subject matter usually? Just one's daily affairs or more abstract issues?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
It just depends. They're thought games that keep me occupied while I drive or keep me up at night. Sometimes something worthy comes out of them like an idea for a painting or a new understanding of something.
The initial state is just a starting point.
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Is a thought game a kind of hypothetical take on the issue? Like "lets imagine we have 3 main colorrs, what combinations can we make. now lets add one more..." etc.
An example would be great, when you get a chance just write down a short description of a thought game that went in your head.
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Sure, I can do that
All Hail The Flying Spaghetti Monster
Yes. Most definately. It is about creating a hypothetical situation or concept and playing with the full implications or possibilities which that concept would entail. Color games are a bit simple, so instead of using colors as an example, let's use one of my favorites: political systems. Just about every rule, law, and amendment that is a part of a government's structure has implications as to the perceived purpose of government as well as how the law may be played out, both the benefits and the abuses. The hypothetical game would be to try to identify a problem or goal of government, and then to create a new policy or a change in the structure of government and play out the theory in practice, both the benefits and possible abuses.Is a thought game a kind of hypothetical take on the issue? Like "lets imagine we have 3 main colorrs, what combinations can we make. now lets add one more..." etc.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I used to do that and I am INTP though.Originally Posted by Logos
Are you sure of your type logos?
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
Quite sure, I do not identify especially well with as a primary function and is something that I know that I consciously do all the time. But this sort of thinking is part of the INTj's strategy and contingency thinking, mixing and matching components and concepts in the attempt to try and create a new one.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
(Logos comes across as INTj to me.)
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I am too sleepy to write because it's 11:30 p.m around here. I think that INTj can become creative and also from IN(T)j to I(N)Tj by finding some humanitarian activity: poetry, writing fiction. They can also strengthen their secondary by learning to brainstrom. When they learn to use their Role function, they can become emotional, laughy and theatrical. So to become into Secondary function subtype, they should learn to be impulsive, originally thinking and entertaining.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Creativity is a big part of my life. I'm always coming up with ideas for art, and my video projects. It's a means of expression, and the idea part is the most fun part of it. There are so many possibilities in creating, and I find you have a certain control that you don't have in other aspects of life. Also, my characters that I draw, and I have a whole story behind them. It's been a big part of my life since a young age. A sort of ne creativity, of spawning new ideas from nearly anything.
But all of the types/elements are capable of their own brands and creativity. It comes down to the individual if these pursuits are important to them, and how it manifests in their lives. And many, it's just not as important to them, because they have other strengths, or other priorities.
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Make things right? Who are we to decide when things are right and when they need to be fixed?
If what you mean by creative is producing or using original and unusual ideas, then I've known many INTjs who weren't and I've seen copies of all types who were. INTjs tend to have natural abilities to understand connections among sets of information but many don't, for various reasons, exploit the potential that they see. An essential ingredient of creativity is actual output and INTjs can be rather reticent to start an original endeavour - especially when it involves risk.....
a.k.a. I/O