Recommend some must-read literature

[Kent Lorne]

Hey sorry I think I deleted the post by mistake. I am sorry I wasn't responding to the conversation between you guys, was just responding to what hkkmr said. Sorry about that. Shall be more careful next time. I didn't realize the context of the conversation. But since I was reading a bit now, if I could just add that taking control of one's life and designing it to the way you wish to experience and live it is the greatest form of creativity according to me. But sometimes the human soul can't always function from a state of " I am gonna take control of my life". When I am low I need to vent, talk it out, just cry and after sometime let some catharsis happen where I feel better and then I enter my tool room (metaphorically) and start recreating and redesigning my life. Sometimes trying to fix people's problems doesn't really work. And they really do need to be heard out. There is a lot that goes from our conscious into our subconscious and allowing the subcon to communicate with the con can be had work. I think Carl Jung mentions that in the Wounded healer... Sometimes it's not about fixing things more than releasing things. Healing happens in different ways. Talking allows the subcon to re-establish it's connection with the consciousness and then suddenly you have these insights and that itself gives you answers in how to fix things. So the outside party need not really say anything. The mind like the body has an ability to heal.

[Birdie]

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[mu4]

EXACTLY. Take control of your own life, taking full responsibility, you CHOOSE where you're at! If you're don't like where you're at, CHANGE it! Although you seem to want to blame others' power over you, and you seem to want a handout from the rich and powerful.

What do you mean? You work, you get a job and you think that's being in control? I never complain about other's power over me, I accept that it exists and it drives me to escape it.

If I could extract a handout(without consequence) from the rich and powerful or the government, that makes me in control of them. Of course, nobody gets a handout from rich and powerful, it's always at a price. It's not like I get a handout from anyone in my life, nor have I ever expected one.

It doesn't matter what you do in life, most people's lives are dependent on the service they provide to others, only the very rich and those that inherit their wealth are outside of the necessities of survival. Once you recognize the chains/strings/ties that bind you to others in this world, you will realize that these forces are both the source of our service and empowerment.

I don't think pleasantries like full responsibility, taking control and choice even matter in this conversation, these are just idiotic pleasantries to make it sound nicer and somehow empowering, basically it's bullshit. Power, success, money, fame is the game.

And in the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. (Read Game of Thrones)

How about just calling it like it is, work, do things for others, be decent to them, hopefully get paid and have a few good times along the way.

[Park]

I'd rather you control what you say. I'll simply quote the great Lou Holtz on this one: "Don't tell your problems to people: eighty percent don't care; and the other twenty percent are glad you have them."

I'm sure there's a street beggar in Somalia who knows that, and I bet he never heard of Lou Holtz.

But I don't understand why you would quote something completely irrelevant to our discussion. I didn't share a problem with you, I expressed disagreement/dislike.

Yes, I believe in some aspects we are all equal. I believe people can put themselves in a position to win, however.

Win what?

*edit* I just removed my first answer, perhaps it could be viewed as offensive.

Perhaps...

Mind if I ask, Parkster, are you independent, working and paying all your bills, rent etc., have your own place?

Your not wanting the world to be a 'horse race' just makes me feel like you're not independent yet, or experienced what it's like.

No comment...

But here's a question. Do you, MD, as independent and ahead in life as you are, need "greats" like this Lou Hooever to tell you how much people care about your problems and how to act upon them? Aren't you capable of learning these things by yourself/from your own experience?

[Park]

Wow, you're a douche.

I mean, it's not like I LIKE hearing my girlfriend and friends and people on the forum bitch, it sucks and brings negative energy, but as long as it's not excessive, it's a very healthy practice to vent frustrations and negative feelings. Not doing so is a recipe for nothing but self-hatred, anxiety, and emotional isolationism.



Lol wow, you presumptuous ass. I actually don't get along with Parkster but I have to stand up for him on this one.

You, my friend, are a relic of the 1950s and what was once again reflected in the 1980s: sterile American success-idealizing who's-the-best-ant mentality and it's rather pathetic. In fact I personally find it repugnant. I can see it in your face in your avatar; you have the glazed look of someone who has been seduced to believe that he will be happy or get what he's looking for as long as he follows a certain formula. It's a lie and it will make you die unhappy and emotionally alone, whether you wind up in an expensive high-rise condo or a bougie mansion with 4 kids. Prescribing a "recipe for success" is what institutions like religions are based upon: setting false expectations in order to encourage compliance and subservience. These values are promoted by the wealthy or those in positions of power or influence to make people feel as though their hamster wheel is going somewhere. You are being jerked around by your dick and I hope you realize it before you wind up with an even emptier look in your eye in exchange for a full bank account.

I still think you're a dipshit, but kudos for being honest. And realistic.

[Morcheeba]

Anything by Henry Miller

[Kent Lorne]

Henry Miller is good... Fanny Hill is good too!
Anyone ever come cross Anne Rice's The claiming of Sleeping Beauty?

[Creepy-Snaps]

What do you mean? You work, you get a job and you think that's being in control? I never complain about other's power over me, I accept that it exists and it drives me to escape it.

I'm talking about entrepreneurship, starting your own business to take control of your finances, and not be dependent on others. It seems we're different here.

How about just calling it like it is, work, do things for others, be decent to them, hopefully get paid and have a few good times along the way.

Seems like a passive, submissive way to approach life to me. I'd rather not have my family and I 'hoping' to get paid by another man someday, end up getting laid off, and having our survival be dependent on another man. I want to know my children will be provided for, and I'm willing to work for that.

[Creepy-Snaps]

I'm sure there's a street beggar in Somalia who knows that, and I bet he never heard of Lou Holtz.

But I don't understand why you would quote something completely irrelevant to our discussion. I didn't share a problem with you, I expressed disagreement/dislike.



Win what?



Perhaps...



No comment...

But here's a question. Do you, MD, as independent and ahead in life as you are, need "greats" like this Lou Hooever to tell you how much people care about your problems and how to act upon them? Aren't you capable of learning these things by yourself/from your own experience?

I can't teach calculus to someone who doesn't know algebra. I'm sorry, but explaining this isn't worth my time. You'll learn in due time anyway, as you go through life.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I can't teach calculus to someone who doesn't know algebra. I'm sorry, but explaining this isn't worth my time. You'll learn in due time anyway, as you go through life.

SELL HIM AN AMWAY BOOK ON THE SUBJECT THAT WILL PUT HIM WAY AHEAD OF HIS PEERS

[FDG]

I'm talking about entrepreneurship, starting your own business to take control of your finances, and not be dependent on others. It seems we're different here.

Even when you're self-employed, your income depends on your clients.

[Creepy-Snaps]

SELL HIM AN AMWAY BOOK ON THE SUBJECT THAT WILL PUT HIM WAY AHEAD OF HIS PEERS

Amway isn't the name of our training company. It's just the company we do marketing through.

Even when you're self-employed, your income depends on your clients.

They can't fire you.

[Gilly]

Could have fooled me, since you seem to enjoy venting and cursing here.

Sure do. Doesn't hurt anyone, though; not unless they start in on me first.

I'm flattered, but I am not your God.

Lol what? Could you just...not think of anything better to say?

There's a reason people smoke, to give them that short-term relief, or who drink on the weekends, to take away their short-term problems, both of those things work. Doesn't mean long-term, big picture, that they're going to do any good for actually solving your problems.

True, but people DO actually improve with time in therapy; they learn more about themselves, coping strategies that work for them, the different paths their minds wind down and where they wind up...I could go on for ages. You don't have to take my word for it, though. Go talk to some therapists, find one that you will believe when he tells you he saves people's lives. Hell, I can give you therapy, if you want. I've read slews of textbooks and literature, did half a university degree with a psych major, and have actually helped about a handful of people make serious changes in their lives and worldviews based on the ways they think and giving them prolonged input about their mindset and beliefs. It's actually rather a crime that I'm not pursuing a degree in psychology; I could probably save a good few burnt-out desk jockies like your future self from unnecessary divorces, alcoholism, suicide, abject misery, etc.

Also, therapy is less of a "quick fix" and more about using release to lighten the load. Holding in emotions makes people progressively more alienated from others, because they begin to feel to inappropriate levels that nobody cares about them or what they feel. Also, people with less stress live longer, period. It's not a quick fix at all; it's a TRULY long-term strategy.

My mentors are not therapists, and they do not tolerate problem-dumping either. I go to them for constructive criticism, if I need it.

Lol, you must be REALLY good at taking shit. It won't help you in the end, though; wanna talk about success? If you just keep trying to "do better" and don't make a little space for yourself, you'll just wind up either getting walked all over, or only getting as far as your actual work affords you. And trust me, nobody but a genius gets far on just the strength of their work. And a genius you are not.

I'm flattered for someone with over 21,000 posts on this forum to pay attention to my signature, it's a compliment for you to pay so much attention to me.

Oh please.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Amway isn't the name of our training company. It's just the company we do marketing through.

Hydras by their nature have several heads.

They can't fire you.

There's a sure sign you haven't been in business long enough. Contractors get fired and deals are broken left and right. Being your own boss is useless when there's no revenue coming in.

[Gilly]

I still think you're a dipshit, but kudos for being honest. And realistic.

thx

[Creepy-Snaps]

Hell, I can give you therapy, if you want. I've read slews of textbooks and literature,

That's cute.

did half a university degree with a psych major,

So you're a college dropout. So you didn't finish your goal you set out to accomplish.

and have actually helped about a handful of people make serious changes in their lives and worldviews based on the ways they think and giving them prolonged input about their mindset and beliefs.

Good. I'm glad you were able to help people.

It's actually rather a crime that I'm not pursuing a degree in psychology; I could probably save a good few burnt-out desk jockies like your future self from unnecessary divorces, alcoholism, suicide, abject misery, etc.

It's not a crime that you're not pursuing a degree. It's a crime that you sit and speculate about what you can do with your life, as opposed to going out and doing it. I'm glad you're concerned about MY future, but I assure you, it won't be nearly as bad as you make out to be. Good luck with yours.

Also, therapy is less of a "quick fix" and more about using release to lighten the load. Holding in emotions makes people progressively more alienated from others, because they begin to feel to inappropriate levels that nobody cares about them or what they feel. Also, people with less stress live longer, period. It's not a quick fix at all; it's a TRULY long-term strategy.

I agree.

wanna talk about success?

And a genius you are not.

No, I don't want to talk success, not with YOU. Not with a college dropout who speculates about what he can do with his life, while he sits at home and insults people on the internet in order to feel better about himself.

[Creepy-Snaps]

There's a sure sign you haven't been in business long enough. Contractors get fired and deals are broken left and right. Being your own boss is useless when there's no revenue coming in.

You don't seem to be familiar with the company I do marketing for. They've been in business for over 50 years and haven't missed a single bonus payment any month, and are debt-free. Companies pursue THEM, want to contract with them, because they'll get more advertising, and more sales. We've helped companies increase revenue 30%-40% in just 3 months time after coming to us. Long-term, building an Amway business is the most consistent revenue-based way to make a living in America.

Anyway, both you and Gilly seem to just want to poke holes in everything I say. You'll probably find something in this post and my last to pick at, because you both seem to be bent on putting me down, as opposed to any actual discussion. So I'll end this here. Going back and forth isn't worth my time.

[Korpsy Knievel]

You don't seem to be familiar with the company I do marketing for.

So then you're actually a quasi-employee of a distribution chain and not exactly your own boss except insofar as you're able to maintain a semi-independent relationship with your corporate parent, provided you continue peddling its products and services and drawing more members into the fold.

[anndelise]

Anyone ever come cross Anne Rice's The claiming of Sleeping Beauty?

I wouldn't call this one literature, heh. Though I suppose it is considered as such in some circles.
This, and those similar to it, however, would not be an appropriate book to recommend to jinxi.

If you liked this series/subject matter, I recommend The Marketplace Series. Much better characterization and character development. (still not a book for jinxi, though)

[FDG]

They can't fire you.

So? If they stop on buying, you income stream is interrupted. Just as much as when your boss fires you.

I'm self-employed, I know what it means. Don't try to fool me.

[krieger]

i was given Danial Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow for the laudable acheivement of turning 20-something +1 a few days ago. preliminarily the book looks to be so refreshingly good that i'm breaking from tradition and deciding to feel good about having a birthday for once in my life.

[Gilly]

So you're a college dropout. So you didn't finish your goal you set out to accomplish.

Actually it was never my goal to graduate college. I have no real need or desire. Degrees are all but useless in today's economic environment; connections are much, much more important, especially in the fields I hope to work in.

It's not a crime that you're not pursuing a degree. It's a crime that you sit and speculate about what you can do with your life, as opposed to going out and doing it. I'm glad you're concerned about MY future, but I assure you, it won't be nearly as bad as you make out to be. Good luck with yours.

Sit back and speculate. As much as I post on this forum, I can understand why you might think that about me.

In reality, though, I've done more with my life than most people ever will. I've written the better part of each of three novels, two of which I am finishing, volumes upon volumes of poetry, lived in three different major cities, seen almost every state in the US as well as about a third of the countries in continental Europe and a few in Central America, pursued a handful of different lines of work, met people from all over the world, and done enough drugs to make someone whose asshole is as tight as yours go completely insane. I have friends all over the country and from all over the world whom I love and who love me, I've fought in wars that you don't even realize are going on, I've saved people's lives, and I've looked death in the face more than once. I've slept in castles and I've cooked meals in mud huts; I've served the homeless and have been served by millionaires. I've rubbed elbows and snorted cocaine with the effective royalty of our country, and I've smoked blunts and struck deals with the lowest slum dwellers. What have you done? Gone to school and found a job and been coddled with the false notion of freedom and independence while every minute of your chance to truly live and every ounce of your REAL freedom is siphoned out of your asshole by corporate fat cats preying on your willingness to delude yourself.

No, I don't want to talk success, not with YOU. Not with a college dropout who speculates about what he can do with his life, while he sits at home and insults people on the internet in order to feel better about himself.

Sits at home? I probably make more money an hour than you, and I didn't have to be brainwashed, or sell my soul to my company, or live a boring ass, insignificant life, or throw my precious time and money away on a piece of paper that is useless to 80% of people who have one to do it. Oh and sometimes I get three days off a week.

Have fun disintegrating in regret.

[Gilly]

They can't fire you.

They can stop spending money on you, which is the same thing; actually it's usually worse.

[ashlesha]

the story of b, daniel quinn
the grapes of wrath, john steinbeck
the giver, lois lowry
the talisman, stephen king/peter straub

[Kent Lorne]

I wouldn't call this one literature, heh. Though I suppose it is considered as such in some circles.
This, and those similar to it, however, would not be an appropriate book to recommend to jinxi.

If you liked this series/subject matter, I recommend The Marketplace Series. Much better characterization and character development. (still not a book for jinxi, though)

Ya it's not literature... haha. I haven't read it actually, just skimmed through it. I didn't know she had written it. I have read most of her other works but ... wow.. this was a surprise! But knowing her work, one should have seen it coming right? (: I'll check out what you mentioned. Thanks! Oops... Sorry I guess your right. I don't know the members well, my bad.

[squark]

i was given Danial Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow for the laudable acheivement of turning 20-something +1 a few days ago. preliminarily the book looks to be so refreshingly good that i'm breaking from tradition and deciding to feel good about having a birthday for once in my life.

I just picked this one up too. Was looking for something else, but saw this and it looked interesting. Haven't started reading it yet though.

[GuavaDrunk]

One of my favourite books of all times is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig.

Strongly agreed with recommendations of Hermann Hesse, Terry Pratchett, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Antoine de Saint-Exupery (Le Petit Prince).
Other worthy time-spenders:

Captain Corelli's Mandolin - Louis de Berniere
Some of O Henry's short stories. The Last Leaf is the most famous.
Something by Dostoyevsky, The Gambler is short and sweet.
Something by Stanislas Lem. Solaris is his most famous work. The Mask a good selections of short stories.
Love in the Time of Cholera is also a good G. G. Marquez book.

[Korpsy Knievel]

Something by Dostoyevsky

The Idiot is a good one, and Notes from the Underground would provide a properly bracing kick in the nuts for Jinxi. I also recommend the Gogol collection, The Overcoat & Other Tales of Good and Evil.

Something by Stanislas Lem.

Just scored his Futurological Congress as a light treat between reading the present heavy tome and the next.

[FDG]

Kafka's "Das Prozess" is always a classic.

Stieg Larsson's popular trilogy is quite good, in spite of its excessive popularity.

C.J. Sansom's "Dark Fire" is another sure bet, if you enjoy exquisite writing and accurate historical reconstructions.

A personal favorite: "The Master and Margarita", by Mikhail Bulgakov.

[Kim]

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Half of a Yellow Sun
Anne Rice: The Mayfair Witches series (better than the Vampire Chronicles)
For some good laughs: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


I really can't stand "this is how you master your life and become successful and rich" books. I have been through times of too much partying, excessive drinking, debilitating depression and anxiety, underachieving, procrastination, plan changes, rejections (tons!), confusion, etc. and now I have a Ph.D. and a prestigious postdoc BECAUSE (not despite) of all of that. The best thing I did in life was to allow myself to fail, be confused, take my time, try new things, trust that people will see my potential through my writing and research (not my credentials), and NOT be on a straight path for the sake of success. My personal success is made up of all the drama and chaos and I wouldn't do anything differently. I would NEVER want to be self-employed. My dad is self-employed and loves what he does, but there have been horrible struggles. I am perfectly happy to be paid by a university for the rest of my days, thank you very much.

[Kent Lorne]

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Half of a Yellow Sun
Anne Rice: The Mayfair Witches series (better than the Vampire Chronicles)
For some good laughs: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


I really can't stand "this is how you master your life and become successful and rich" books. I have been through times of too much partying, excessive drinking, debilitating depression and anxiety, underachieving, procrastination, plan changes, rejections (tons!), confusion, etc. and now I have a Ph.D. and a prestigious postdoc BECAUSE (not despite) of all of that. The best thing I did in life was to allow myself to fail, be confused, take my time, try new things, trust that people will see my potential through my writing and research (not my credentials), and NOT be on a straight path for the sake of success. My personal success is made up of all the drama and chaos and I wouldn't do anything differently. I would NEVER want to be self-employed. My dad is self-employed and loves what he does, but there have been horrible struggles. I am perfectly happy to be paid by a university for the rest of my days, thank you very much.

Wish I could click constructive AND likes for this! Beautifully said Kim, every bit of it. Simply inspiring. Lot more to the journey than just the destination alone, and you get to the destination because of the journey, not despite it! True. I think Alice would have something to say of that too when jumping down the rabbit hole and falling into a well of intrigue.

[Korpsy Knievel]

I read it secretly because it seemed kinda girly, but Barbara Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible was a pretty good novel.

[Kent Lorne]

I read it secretly because it seemed kinda girly, but Barbara Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible was a pretty good novel.

haha! And the rest of your reading suggestions are more manly in comparison ?

[Korpsy Knievel]

haha! And the rest of your reading suggestions are more manly in comparison ?

Yes, by dint of the other authors having penises instead of vaginas.

[Kent Lorne]

Yes, by dint of the other authors having penises instead of vaginas.

Well then why read in secrecy! It's okay to read authors with Vaginas.

[GuavaDrunk]

A personal favorite: "The Master and Margarita", by Mikhail Bulgakov.

A fond memory.

On a more serious note I just finished reading Ubik and haven't seen Philip K. Dick. among the recommendations yet. I personally really enjoy his writing.

The Man in the High Castle is another good one, as is A Scanner Darkly.

And since I'm here, John Le Carre writes very good spy novels. Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, A Most Wanted Man, The Little Drummer Girl, The Mission Song etc etc. His recurring character George Smiley is one of the most notable in that genre.

[pinkcanary]

...

[DirectorAbbie]

the giver, lois lowry

For some good laughs: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

I really can't stand "this is how you master your life and become successful and rich" books.

[munenori2]

The State by Plato, Terry Pratchett's Discworld series, The Little Prince, Tao Teh Ching.

Wow, this is like perfect!

[Creepy-Snaps]

Actually it was never my goal to graduate college. I have no real need or desire. Degrees are all but useless in today's economic environment; connections are much, much more important, especially in the fields I hope to work in.



Sit back and speculate. As much as I post on this forum, I can understand why you might think that about me.

In reality, though, I've done more with my life than most people ever will. I've written the better part of each of three novels, two of which I am finishing, volumes upon volumes of poetry, lived in three different major cities, seen almost every state in the US as well as about a third of the countries in continental Europe and a few in Central America, pursued a handful of different lines of work, met people from all over the world, and done enough drugs to make someone whose asshole is as tight as yours go completely insane. I have friends all over the country and from all over the world whom I love and who love me, I've fought in wars that you don't even realize are going on, I've saved people's lives, and I've looked death in the face more than once. I've slept in castles and I've cooked meals in mud huts; I've served the homeless and have been served by millionaires. I've rubbed elbows and snorted cocaine with the effective royalty of our country, and I've smoked blunts and struck deals with the lowest slum dwellers. What have you done? Gone to school and found a job and been coddled with the false notion of freedom and independence while every minute of your chance to truly live and every ounce of your REAL freedom is siphoned out of your asshole by corporate fat cats preying on your willingness to delude yourself.




Sits at home? I probably make more money an hour than you, and I didn't have to be brainwashed, or sell my soul to my company, or live a boring ass, insignificant life, or throw my precious time and money away on a piece of paper that is useless to 80% of people who have one to do it. Oh and sometimes I get three days off a week.

Have fun disintegrating in regret.

Quoted for humor. You crack me up, Gilly.

'I went to college, but it was never my goal to graduate.' What was your goal then, to accumulate debt and waste time? Just going for the experience?

'I've accomplished so much in life, look how many drugs I've done.'

Keep reflecting on your past. I'm focused on my future.

Oh, and insults aside, I don't think we're actually that much different. I'm not gung-ho about college or corporate America like you seem to think. My mentor in life dropped out of college. He had a goal for what he was going to accomplish.

I think it's cool you've helped people, and I like your goal for writing. Maybe you can be a famous author one day.

I also like how you refuse to be 'normal' or do what everyone else is doing.