IEI through SLE's eyes: what is that like? (INFp-ESTp)

[Kent Lorne]

I don't see myself as any of those things either. It surprised me that they would think those things of me.



I've been called cold, heartless and detached many times before, but never by SLE's. I don't see myself as that either, though. I'd describe myself as being somewhere in the middle.



They are highly protective over the ones they love. I always feel safe with my bf. I remember I met one of his old friends from high school & he told me "You got lucky with this one, he'll always protect you." he said that he always felt safe with him & If anyone threatened any of his friends he'd be the first one to jump into the fight to defend them without a second thought.

Though I will admit that SLE's also have a very cold side to the people they don't know or care about. They lack a lot of empathy for strangers.

Yesterday someone I went to school with posted a suicide note on Facebook, and when I read it to my bf his response was like "Good riddance, he looks weak. He's probably some loser anyway. We don't need any weak people in this world breathing up all the air & polluting our sewers with their shit. Only the strongest should survive. I hope he kills himself, hahaha! Tell him to use a knife so he wont waste any bullets, and to do it in the bathtub so he wont mess up the carpet. It's probably just a bluff anyway, he'll be too much of a coward to go through with it"

-___-

Hey starfall. Ya! Totally agree! I am somewhere in the middle too between those descriptions. Glad I am not nuts! haha. Ya see that bothers me, what you said about your bf and his response to that suicide note. Maybe this is when the IEI seems nice and sweet. The times when my SLEs have reacted that way, I have given them a dress down! I think that's the right term? haha. And if they act too smart I just go and help the stranger anyway. If they can do what they want to do instinctually, so can I ! I just want to hit them on the head sometimes about these things... and I do! The fights are very enjoyable I have to say. Do you relate to the whole play fighting thing? Do you like getting wild and aggressive with your SLE? I love it! I experience a lot of play fighting. Were I can scream at em, hit them, slap them... and they think it's foreplay!

But that's my point! How does the SLE simply swoon over IEI ideals and niceties but have a problem with other people's weaknesses?

[Kent Lorne]

I definitely don't feel like I take care of him in a physical sense (he's better at that stuff than I am). He takes care of himself 100%. If anything, I feel as if we look out for each other & do things for each other on an equal ground. If I did take care of him, I'd say that its more so in an emotional sense.

Absolutely starfall! Sorry about that. That's what I wanted to clarify. My bad. Thanks for sharing all this. I am feeling a lot better in my understanding. It's really great hearing what you have to say. These are great insights. I too feel the care is given emotionally. I think we need psychological care from the SLE! Ti HA

Starfall, could you tell me a little bit about the initial stages of your relationship with your SLE bf? What was it like? Was it hard or was it quite gentle and easy to get into?

[Kent Lorne]

ha thats exactly what I did! I called him heartless & even said that he was probably one of the bullies who made kids want to kill themselves in the first place. I then told him the reason why the guy wanted to commit suicide & he was then able to empathize a little more. He even admitted to me that he himself has been in that place many times before. We then got into one of those deep conversations about "life". lol

I do relate a lot to the whole aggressive playing thing... sometimes I feel like I get a little too aggressive, but they seem to not mind it whatsoever.




I think it's because we do it in a way to help them see the other side of things? Sometimes when he'll say heartless douchebag things I'll give him the whole "Heyyy, wtf is wrong with you? You don't even understand... etc, etc" kind of tangents and he'll just kind of pause and say something like "aww this is what I love about you. You have such a good heart".

Haha! Oh man ! I know what you mean. So we show them perspective which maybe the other softies don't? Insightful softness. I sit and explain the psychology and situation of what's going on and why certain people do certain things and that he or she just can't see past his own fucking nose! What you see is not what you get! Oh lord how many times I have to explain this to my SLEs. But you know that truly is their world view I think cause with them you do get what you see... but with us... it's deeper, we know when it comes to us you don't get what you see! There is a whole world below this exterior. So we see the world that way too. What do you say? But let's say they are 2 softies and the SLE thinks ... weak asshole. Now he doesn't know one of them is an IEI... so how does he or she react to the situation? I am sure SLEs have bullied IEIs.... made them feel utterly bad. And then when the IEI starts to cry and explain itself maybe the SLE feels bad and starts to cry too??? hahaha. Okay I am starting understand where this whole good heart, angel creature feature is coming from. It's polarization! They take aggression and shit to such a level! OF course we come off as angels! hahaha. But when I am alone, man I feel like such a devil!

Oh ya! I can be a little SLE when it comes to aggression! I feel there is so much aggression in us.. cause we surpress so much, that when we deal with SLEs this is the one place to vent those aggressions on. Cause he/she can take a few punches and still keep standing! (-; I don't think I have ever slapped anyone before other than my SLEs. Just whack! and they still keep looking at you. You think you are being a wild tiger! They just look at you as if a angry kitten were scratching them, not hitting them! )-: And I am like " I am not a kitten! Stop tickling my ears!"

And that's real nice, that you and your SLE shared so much after you explained the suicide thing. That's pretty cool. I like discussions like that.

[Kent Lorne]

@ Starfall...

When it comes to EII vs IEI.... what's the difference according to you when they give an SLE a dressing down. When they tell an SLE they are going on the wrong track. Both EIIs and IEIs are very aware and caring about the world that way. So if both of them had to yell at an SLE.... how would they individually sound.. ? Just a thought. And how would an SLE react to them respectively?

I have EII friends who point out the ethical problems in some of what our SLE friend does or might be doing or saying. But so do I. So... what's the difference?

[Satan]

It was like a cat & mouse in the beginning. Ever see Warner Brothers Pepe Le Pew where he chases that poor cat? Well, at first I felt like that cat lol.

After all the chasing it was very easy to connect & fall in love with him... yet difficult at the same time, seeing as I later found out he was married. He then had to choose between me & his wife who he still loved. I was also with him as he went through his painful divorce. That caused a lot of problems.

Kent, she even posted all about it .. something about her stalker?


google has this at least.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...meet-your-Dual

[Kent Lorne]

It was like a cat & mouse in the beginning. Ever see Warner Brothers Pepe Le Pew where he chases that poor cat? Well, at first I felt like that cat lol.



After all the chasing it was very easy to connect & fall in love with him... yet difficult at the same time, seeing as I later found out he was married. He then had to choose between me & his wife who he still loved. I was also with him as he went through his painful divorce. That caused a lot of problems.

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Well, I'm not exactly sure. I'm guessing that an EII would probably be a lot more passive about it with a strong sense of disgust. They probably wouldn't be as sympathetic or forgiving & I guess they wouldn't explain their view to the SLE the same way an IEI would. I find that IEI's are not as easily offended by their dual.

When I get angry at them I'm not really that overly offended, yet I still definitely want to let them know how immoral their views are. Sometimes I think he says stuff just because he likes it when I get mad at him lol. We play around like that a lot.


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That's interesting. EII would be a lot more passive about it. True. And a strong sense of disgust and a strong sense of right and wrong. I do get disgusted too though. But I do explain why and what I feel is wrong in the situation and I get very emotional about it or I get very psychological about it. Either way I explain myself. I think my EII friend reinforces the right and wrong aspects of the problem, I go a little more into the psychology of the problem. Maybe that helps more? Instead of writing the person off, why not explain it a bit. True IEIs are not easily offended by SLEs.... but when it does come down to certain things, certain ethical situations, then I think even IEIs are not gonna look the other way and not be offended. They would be, deeply I would say, but instead of writing the person off, they would talk about it with intense depth? I have had screaming matches with SLEs over certain things. Wild bad screaming matches. After everyone has calmed down, my SLE friend says... " maybe your right" . Something got through! But I do get mad when I hear stupid things. I get really mad. REALLY disgusted! Except I am not passive about it! I just grab hold of that SLE neck and give it my best shot! (-;

Haha! So... your dual connected to you, before you connected to him?

[Kent Lorne]

Kent, she even posted all about it .. something about her stalker?


google has this at least.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...meet-your-Dual

Thanks mercutio. I didn't know. I'll go through the thread. thank you.

[Kent Lorne]

This Video is so cute Starfall! hahahah. Thanks for sharing it!

[Kent Lorne]

lol more like he wanted to connect in other ways if you know what I mean... haha

Haha.. Your funny starfall!

[Satan]

omg merk whyyyy. lol that thread is embarrassing. It's going to be hard stopping myself from deleting some posts.

thought it may be helpful.

i didn't read it. but see you've deleted a post now

[Kent Lorne]

In the youtube video likes... someone actually commented... Struggle and Snuggle! haha. I loved that!

[Kent Lorne]

Starfall I think the beginning of this video when Penelope sees Pee le Pew for the very first time and dashes towards him with gleaming eyes of LOVE, describes how I react to my duals ! in fact the whole video describes my relationship with my dual! haha. Run at first glance into there arms, then run away! I love the way these two try to change for each other. haha. I have this experience with an SLE. Very GREASE ! hahaha. SLEs got to be smart enough to trick them, fast enough to capture them and determined enough not to give up! If you can't do all this.... No IEI tonight ! They are slippery little suckers, like mercury balls!

[Aquagraph]

Last night I tried to impress this one IEI and she impressed me. She just said some things about my psyche which seemed pretty obvious to her. I felt stupid and frail, it felt good kinda. She just disarmed me somehow. What magical creatures they are.

Got her number.

[Kent Lorne]

Well good for you! Becoming quite a master at catching IEIs! Even better than a lion with their deer hunting! What did she say about your psyche? You felt stupid and frail??? haha. Well details on how she made you feel this way! You know how I love details!

[Aquagraph]

Well good for you! Becoming quite a master at catching IEIs! Even better than a lion with their deer hunting! What did she say about your psyche? You felt stupid and frail??? haha. Well details on how she made you feel this way! You know how I love details!

She said that I'm filled with hate and bitterness. Nobody has ever said that to me. :3 And other things I can't yet recall. I was pretty drunk and high.

Just learned that it's a he. Doesn't matter, knew he was part of GLBT culture. He's still amazing and beautiful

[Kent Lorne]

Aww... that's super sweet! Very cool. So he called you on your bullshit? Is it? And what were his beautiful and amazing elements?

[redbaron]

It's interesting... I too have been called cold, but never by an SLE. Funny (obvious, I guess!) how people's perceptions are colored by their type. SLEs are surprisingly perceptive of moods. They're able to size people up in a split second. I've been told I looked "happy and sad at the same time". Very often scanning my face for clues. cute.

[Kent Lorne]

Sad and happy at the same time.... that's very cool. I get that. I really do. I am starting to really detest the word cute !!! When people call me that it drives me up the wall ! I feel like I have heard cats scratching the blackboard! I think I am allergic to that word! Especially the way people see IEIs like that !! It's god awful pain!

True, I have realized that too. SLEs perceive moods well, but are never affected by it. My melt down won't cause them to have one too! Thank god. True, SLEs don't see it as cold.... Though the times my SLE friend felt I was being cold, they knew why and didn't seem to mind. I think they know us better so they don't make it seem like it's an everlasting thing. I think SLEs in general don't limit or judge our moods. Any mood is fine. And sometimes they just knew I am being perceived cold cause it is genuinely not affecting me and I am already on emotional overload and need to focus on what I am doing. So they kind of help me by telling people to back off. Sometimes I need to cut loose from other people's neurosis and just focus on what needs to be done at the given moment. This is the time my Fe shuts off completely (and is only reserved for verrrryyy close friends) cause I can't spend too much of that energy. During these times my SLE helps my environment remain calm and harmonious so that I can just do what I have and finish all my work. I think this is the time others find me cold !

When have people found you cold? In what kinds of situations?

I think I am realizing that the SLE doesn't perceive this to be cold. It's not warm, cause it's obviously not. I think they just see it as it's time to work, or focus or do whatever it is you have to. Since they know the need to focus on their work and know how to keep disturbing elements out of their hemisphere, they value the need in someone else. It blows my mind how similar SLEs and IEIs are. On the outside maybe different, go deep down, and they are like twins. All duals ! I was just discussing this on the ILE - SEI site.

[Aquagraph]

Aww... that's super sweet! Very cool. So he called you on your bullshit? Is it? And what were his beautiful and amazing elements?

He didn't do it like that. I was openly bragging and admitted that i tried to impress him.

He could read right through me and was really nice and interesting. i'll post more later.

[Kent Lorne]

Ahh! Okay I get what your saying. Sorry about that. I misunderstood. Hahah! That sounds even more adorable. That you were trying to impress him! You are really sweet. I am sure your IEIs find you just as delectable as you find them! Ya, cool, post later. I would love to hear more! I love the way you talk about your experiences and insights.

[redbaron]

True, I have realized that too. SLEs perceive moods well, but are never affected by it. My melt down won't cause them to have one too! Thank god.

yes, exactly! which is why I can reveal my real feelings with them! And they *always* say the perfect thing to calm me down or make me at least not feel like I'm a freak. In fact, usually they make me feel like I'm not just okay but special and wonderful for feeling the way that I do. And then I feel accepted and I know my feelings are okay with them. And my crazy views and my random thoughts and my doubts and questions. Everything is okay.

I think SLEs in general don't limit or judge our moods. Any mood is fine. And sometimes they just knew I am being perceived cold cause it is genuinely not affecting me and I am already on emotional overload and need to focus on what I am doing. So they kind of help me by telling people to back off. Sometimes I need to cut loose from other people's neurosis and just focus on what needs to be done at the given moment. This is the time my Fe shuts off completely (and is only reserved for verrrryyy close friends) cause I can't spend too much of that energy. During these times my SLE helps my environment remain calm and harmonious so that I can just do what I have and finish all my work. I think this is the time others find me cold !

yes! that's exactly what I was going to say. When I'm deep in thought, working things out, or daydreaming or really focused on something, that's when other types perceive me as cold and/or uncaring/aloof.

I think I am realizing that the SLE doesn't perceive this to be cold. It's not warm, cause it's obviously not. I think they just see it as it's time to work, or focus or do whatever it is you have to. Since they know the need to focus on their work and know how to keep disturbing elements out of their hemisphere, they value the need in someone else. It blows my mind how similar SLEs and IEIs are. On the outside maybe different, go deep down, and they are like twins. All duals ! I was just discussing this on the ILE - SEI site.

yes! there's a time to focus on work and get things done we need to do, and a time to play. IEI and SLE are very much alike in many ways. It's said too often but, like two sides of the same coin.

[redbaron]

Ahh! Okay I get what your saying. Sorry about that. I misunderstood. Hahah! That sounds even more adorable. That you were trying to impress him! You are really sweet. I am sure your IEIs find you just as delectable as you find them! Ya, cool, post later. I would love to hear more! I love the way you talk about your experiences and insights.

SLEs love to impress and brag! Sooooo funny.

[Kent Lorne]

Absolutely Redbaron! Now I don't feel like a freak! IEIs do a pretty damn good job off taking away the complexes from their identicals too you know... By that I mean you! haha. Thanks! Okay cool so when you are in your Ni / Ti world or what have you, your "busy" time when you are emotionally "offline" haha... the SLE gets it. So true.

When I get vindictive, angry, irrational, jealous etc. Everyone thinks of me as a brute! Mean, hostile, bitch! And they are surprised by the turn of events, because all of a sudden the angel has turned devil and wants to do bad things to them! (Though I don't)... )-: The ONLY PERSON WHO WILL EVER UNDERSTAND SUCH EVIL KNIEVEL FEELINGS!!! IS THE SLE! AGAIN!!! They get it. Cause they have felt it too! It's like they turn to you and say "Oh thank god! I felt I was going to hell for fucking an angel ! You are actually part devil ! I am safe!" It's like they are surprised with glee!! " So you are just as fucked up as me!" hahah...

You ever experienced this with your SLE?! Showing your bad, mean, hostile side and being completely loved for it!! As much as they love your good side!

I think in duality you experience your better half and your evil self all in one person! This person is who you aspire to be, and who you already are also already like and therefore feel very kindred (even more than the kindred intertype ( ... like kindred twin souls! Made of the same cosmic cloth! So you get where you want to go, but you have parts which you already relate to so that you can enter into the place you wanna go. You feel safe on your journey to enlightenment!

As you probably know by my posts now I am a bit of an example freak! Could you give me a few examples about what you mentioned... about how when you reveal your true feelings your SLE not only understands but makes you feel special?

... Awww.. I love it when they try to impress and brag! They are so cute when they do it, it takes every strength in my body not to leap on their lap and just pull their cheeks and kiss them into oblivion!!! All at the same time.

[redbaron]

I'm an example freak too. I feel like I need them to be able to really grasp how these ideas play out in real life.

So here's an example: I was upset because I had to attend a counseling session and I was worried the counselor would try to change my mind about something and wouldn't honor my feelings so I was telling an SLE friend about this and I started crying a little. His response was "Well just don't go to the session then!" and I was like "really???? I could do that?" I had never even considered that possibility and it was as if his giving me permission to not go, gave me the courage to do it and to stand up for myself.

Another time I was angry at some stuff other people were saying and shot off a really intense email to an SLE wherein I basically ended up saying that I refused to attend his funeral if he continues to pathetically accept the false views that other people were projecting on to his life (and mine too, but the details are irrelevant here). I felt like I was being really mean! So the next day, I apologized and he said that he actually found my message very interesting and it was making him think a lot about it. LOL I like the fact that I can get all intense when I feel deeply about something and they can take it. Also, they seem to think we're wise and can see part of themselves that others can't. And it's probably true. I think I have a higher standard for SLEs because I know how capable they are and how much they can accomplish. This also impresses them that I believe in them more than others seem to.

The other thing is that because we're usually so easy going about most things, when we DO get riled up about something, they sit up and take notice. It makes them respect us I think.

[Kent Lorne]

Wow.... I am making googly eyes at you right now redbaron! You are awesome! I was starting to feel a bit wacko for constantly asking for examples! I am glad you relate! Yeah I need examples for the same reason you mention. It gives me a chance to judge and understand for myself, rather than have already perceived and filtered understanding by someone else. I need to see the raw material ! (:

That's a great example. Interesting... what you did made your SLE actually think about what you were saying. Ya I feel that way about SLEs I meet too. I always feel like " You have everything you can have to be great! Stop being an idiot about certain things! " You feel like they are just on the edge of greatness! And when they do show that greatness... ethically speaking.... it's like the archetypical savior has just manifested right in front of your eyes!

Hmmm..... I never consciously realized that. When we get riled up they take notice.. true. What if you keep getting riled up for a bit? ahahah what happens then!!

I have experienced one specific problem redbardon.... I tend to be very emotive and open about how I feel about people around me. So if I meet a lot of nice people, I tell them how much I like them. Some people have felt I am not being honest or being fake or just kissing up or it being a put on of sort,just not being genuine. The logic being " oh she says it to everyone, you are nothing special." I don't see how loving everyone makes that love less unique or special. I love all my friends equally, but differently. Why should quantity reduce quality? I genuinely like those people. I can't help it. And I say what I feel. But people misunderstand this.... a lot. Do you relate to being like this? Have experienced other people misunderstand this behavior? How does your SLE react to this behavior in comparison?

[lemontrees]

Mm, I think I'm jumping in here with a random observation about SLE/IEI duality that's not directly continuous with the discussion that's coming before. For that I apologize...

I was talking to a close SLE female friend last night. She's classically SLE in that she "conquers" a lot of men, and she changes them "as quickly as other people change clothes" (her words, not mine.) People fall in love with her continuously and get their hearts broken continuously. Anyway, she was reminiscing about this older IEI man who sort of played "hot and cold" games with her for years, and who she never ultimately won over. But she mentioned that, compared to other men, who give themselves to her so easily, it felt like with this IEI everything they got from each other was always "earned," and they respected each other for it. Aggressor-Victim dynamic?

She also mentioned that when people treasure her and don't make her introspective in an uncomfortable way, she doesn't feel like they really understand her. She talked about another IEI guy who always made her question herself--b/c she was doing that questioning around him, when he showed her good things about herself she also felt like those good things were really real too, they were the genuine cores of her strength rather than the things people always tended to see on the surface. The compliments, too, felt earned.

[Kent Lorne]

Mm, I think I'm jumping in here with a random observation about SLE/IEI duality that's not directly continuous with the discussion that's coming before. For that I apologize...

I was talking to a close SLE female friend last night. She's classically SLE in that she "conquers" a lot of men, and she changes them "as quickly as other people change clothes" (her words, not mine.) People fall in love with her continuously and get their hearts broken continuously. Anyway, she was reminiscing about this older IEI man who sort of played "hot and cold" games with her for years, and who she never ultimately won over. But she mentioned that, compared to other men, who give themselves to her so easily, it felt like with this IEI everything they got from each other was always "earned," and they respected each other for it. Aggressor-Victim dynamic?

She also mentioned that when people treasure her and don't make her introspective in an uncomfortable way, she doesn't feel like they really understand her. She talked about another IEI guy who always made her question herself--b/c she was doing that questioning around him, when he showed her good things about herself she also felt like those good things were really real too, they were the genuine cores of her strength rather than the things people always tended to see on the surface. The compliments, too, felt earned.

You are saying that your SLE friend likes to be uncomfortably introspective? She wants people to question her? Not doing all this would make her feel misunderstood? She did not appreciate superficial compliments but appreciated the IEIs ability to unmask real qualities in her? Which she took seriously? Did I understand this right? This is a really interesting perspective Lemontrees. Thank you for sharing this. I didn't realize this before. Personally I have had moralistic arguments or rather ethical arguments with SLEs. It get's into huge screaming matches. But they do think about it, I guess, cause afterwards they feel like something got in ... or made sense.

[Kent Lorne]

To all the IEIs : Have you ever encountered SLEs you didn't get a long with? Have you ever gotten into arguments over views, beliefs and opinions etc. ? Where they just thought completely different from you. Like irreconcilable differences of opinion?

[lemontrees]

You are saying that your SLE friend likes to be uncomfortably introspective? She wants people to question her? Not doing all this would make her feel misunderstood? She did not appreciate superficial compliments but appreciated the IEIs ability to unmask real qualities in her? Which she took seriously?

Yes, this is what I got out of my conversation with her, at least.

[Kent Lorne]

So duality only works when ur dual and u share similar outlooks, beliefs, views, and goals toward life.....right?

[lemontrees]

Just learned that it's a he. Doesn't matter, knew he was part of GLBT culture. He's still amazing and beautiful

Fantastic.

[Kent Lorne]

I think people from the same quadra generally do, although often warring factions are both beta. I think differences in intelligence and maturity are much bigger problems...

True octo. Intelligence and maturity matter a great deal.

Really? You feel so? Could you give me some examples of this from your experience.

I have personally noticed that same quadra hasn't resulted in same outlook, same views and same interests exactly.

In fact I was asking Starfall in an earlier post if she has ever met SLEs she didn't get a long with and didn't see eye to eye on. She mentioned in the earlier post that you and her had differences with member Agee who is an SLE. Even amongst duals... not all duals get along.

My IEI friends and I share different interests. SLE brother and sister I know don't have the same hobbies or same views and out looks. Like their political view is completely different! One is a democrat, the other republican. Hard core differences on that. My IEI friends and I get along great but we don't have similar interests exactly. We have separate goals. I find the personalities match. You know I see commonalities in the personalities. My IEI friends react exactly the way I do to most situations... but that's it. Only Reaction, behavior and personality.

But interests, hobbies, likes, dislikes, view points, beliefs... all different. But then this would make sense right? If the beta quadra has similar views and outlooks, then that would mean all IEIs have the same political view points, all SLEs share the same interest. Or that all Betas rather had the same political view point or outlook to life in general. I think intelligence and maturity as you mention hugely influence outlooks, goals, beliefs and interests. So they are all connected together. Exposure, education, experience all create unique desires and that fuels our preservation and social opinions and goals. Type is the vessel and the contents are unique to similar vessels.

One SLE read the same kinds of books as I did, loved the same authors ( we both were big readers and very passionate readers ) and we both shared similar political views. But my other SLE friends were nothing like him in this respect. No similar outlook on life, society, politics, interests nothing. Our goals too were completely different. BUT, all my SLEs and IEIs APPROACHED their outlooks and beliefs in the same manner. Same process and same road, but different destinations. The IM elements are processing, but they are processing different information and content from their environment... resulting in different out look.

Though I might be misunderstanding what you mean by out look. Please do correct my assumption of what you mentioned if I have misunderstood it. That's the problem with typed material and non fluid communication, easy to misunderstand!

Though I am sure you and your bf for example are on the same page towards what you two want from life and from each other... do you feel you both do share similar worldviews and outlooks? Have you found other SLEs who vibed with your bf's outlooks and did they vibe with yours too?

[Kent Lorne]

Octo... You are such a darling to read my posts fully and reply so beautifully and in such detail to all of them. I think I only end up posting long posts to you! Because I too have to read and contemplate on what you have said and I always have so much to share with you and discuss with you. But I really really apologize for all these really long posts to you! (: don't worry this is my last of them! But truly it has been amazing interacting with you.

You are really amazing. And please know how grateful I am for the time and energy you take to sit and reply and interact with my discussions. I really deeply appreciate it. Thank you so much!

Though do reply to my question on whether you have come across SLEs who have had different points of view and all! I would love to know ! Anyone who has experienced finding identicals differing, chime in here!

[Satan]

She said that I'm filled with hate and bitterness. Nobody has ever said that to me. :3 And other things I can't yet recall. I was pretty drunk and high.

Do you think it's true? Some people can project these kinds of things.

[redbaron]

Yes, I've encountered an SLE who had VERY different views from mine. I won't go into too much detail but a lot of good came out of me knowing him, because he was able to explain his beliefs really well and in a way that made sense to me. He also exposed me to a lot of books and foreign ways of thinking and it was so good for me to open my eyes to another belief system. He helped me feel okay about exploring thoughts out of my comfort zone and I totally respected him for that. He was quite possibly the most intellectual stimulating person I've ever known.

[redbaron]

So duality only works when ur dual and u share similar outlooks, beliefs, views, and goals toward life.....right?

No! Duality "works" no matter what! I mean, I wouldn't want to marry the SLE I knew (well, for many reasons) but I think that friendship was very healthy and good for both of us. Duality was certainly there in every way. In some ways, duality is maybe more *interesting* when you don't share the exact same beliefs. But I do think you need similar goals and general values.

[Kent Lorne]

I get what you mean concerning your experience. I too met an SLE who I had different views from. And I understood him, and he understood me. We didn't cause irritation to each other. And I think this is true for identicals as well. But there is more to a person as well. That means every SLE will get a long with every IEI. I agree with Octo when she says that a great amount of maturity and awareness has to be present as well. I posted some articles in the post I wrote for her. Check those out and tell me what you think.

In my experience I really felt that sense of duality and dualization with the SLE I got along with, who had similar goals and values. SLEs I didn't see eye to eye on, we felt comfortable around each other, we were able to get what the other was saying, BUT it didn't change our opinions. We were empathetic towards eachothers ideas... but that's it. There was nothing else to it. In fact we felt we could see eachothers points of view, but not agree. It was like a glass wall. And I have heard other friends of mine of other types though, feel the same way about certain duals they came across. True, duals, identicals who are not similar to you do enrich your life. For that matter all 16 types greatly enrich your life in every possible way. And I do see what you mean about how this SLE enriched your mind. I think that's fantastic! It sounds like an amazing experience! I like what you said about how he was able to explain his thoughts, and how he allow you to deal and learn everything in your own special way. That's very important. I experienced that too. When a person can let you gradually acquire an understanding without forcing you out of your psyche in a way. I have had this experience with an ILE where he was just mentally aggressive. He would kind of be violent about his ways of making me think of his ideologies. Though this had nothing to do with this type, it was other issues which were affecting him. So I totally get what you mean. But long term relationships where you are building a future, becomes a different story. What if then you two are just moving in different direction? Most Socionists do agree that duals need to have a direction towards what they want out of life. That's when you experience the highest form of dualization. An SLE and IEI couple I know who are lawyers, have the same goals, the same beliefs and outlooks. That's why they are a great team. And it's not like they don't teach each other new things, or don't enrich each other...or grow in anyway, they do. In fact even more powerfully. But they are on the same frequency, on the same wavelength and this really helps them in their work. They run a law firm together. Without being on the same page, the company would have collapsed. It almost did, because of another SLE partner they had. There was no synchronicity between this beta group. The SLE partner had different plans and just a different goal in mind for the company and other things too... like clients and cases and stuff. He just saw things differently. And this caused a lot of stress to my IEI friend because initially they were working together. It's when her husband took things into their own strides the company worked. I had the same experience with an IEI buddy of mine at work. Amazing woman. I adored her! But our SLE boss and her had major showdowns. They just did not agree on so many things. But he always told me he respected her. It didn't create contempt. He got it. But our working partnership was far stronger because we both saw a lot of things the same way.

Of course the person you are with will bring new things to the table. And both of you will enrich each others life. Without a doubt. You both are introducing each others world to each other and that's enrich you both. I kind of break down to this:

- Enrichment by introducing new elements in your life.
- Common purposes, outlooks, goals, values..
- dual natures

All this factoring in takes duality to another level. You do feel comfortable around duals, but that's all it will be. Not irritation, but nothing else either. Also there are 16 personality types and billion people. There is going to be tremendous variation. Otherwise think about it, every SLE and IEI could convince each other of everything they believed. I think duals and identicals can see each others points of view comfortably, but that's different from switching your opinion all together. That means there would literally be 8 types of views. Couple the 16 duals and then you are left with 8 perceptions.

Here is one article I found: Read the disclaimer part of the dual section: http://www.socionics.us/wikisocion/Duality.shtml

[redbaron]

well of course you're totally right. I know two SLEs who ran a business together and ultimately broke it up bc the one guy was an asshole. So it's not only about type, obviously.

[Kent Lorne]

Ya... true. Ohh life!... haha.

[Aquagraph]

The guy I mentioned before; I will refer to him as Dorian Gray now on.

..So
He made kinda under-the-nose-obvious observations nobody ever tells me which is kinda like telling a sad clown that he's crying. Yet the insight in these and the sweet tone he used was is if he suggested me to go on. And it was as if he was innocently curious about my onis. He made me angry for facing them. I expressed this anger but we both knew it was a defence mechanism.

I used to stutter/stammer and still occasionally do. Now under assisted introspective stress the usually well supressed symptoms were visible. He got in touch with my history as dynamic being. He got in touch with a certain period of time from my past, a time I still try to suppress. I kinda felt as if Dorian would be a strong beacon of forgiveness and quiet wise acceptance beyond my ability. This interaction felt like it would assist me being as able in it as Dorian was, leading me to forgive myself a bit through a personal savior. This sort of interaction in the past has shown a pattern where I become inspired for the greatness I always were.

Sometimes it's awkward to observe that I am pretty useless when not in love with my special audience and the stage that is the world.

Oh and he already has a boyfriend. But I would still like to observe him from teasing distance if there are no other options.

Yet, 'tis very early to say anything and people who have observed me for a longer time have grown jokingly cynical about the whims of my love life.